Re: Corvette VS NSX

Discussion in '2003 Chevrolet Corvette 50th Anniversary' started by Gamer55, Aug 9, 2002.

  1. I agree with member ilovechevysandvws your right!!!
     
  2. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Ferrari4ever123</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from SSCamaroSS</i>
    <b>Ferrari your an Ass... The Corvette is 30,000 less yet you get a V-8!! Hey for the .5 faster I would dish out 30,000 less than a stupid V-6!

    I can't believe Japan can make a smaller enigine yet give it the same price as a viper which would blow it out of the water!! And about us not caomparing other cars well THe Camaro SS is a sweet care when compared to other cars in its price range like the Eclipse. Ugh you japs are so concieted.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    I cant blame you.....

    look at your names SSComaroSS, Mustangs4ever

    you are standard americans with standard typical american attitudes...

    bigger is better...."a stupid V-6!"

    standard american view of everything....wow....hey lemme throw on like 100 more cubes and beat this car which already has like half the displacement yet nearly the same performance....

    ummm...in America 1/4 mile and 0-60 are all that counts....American cars shouldn't come with steering wheels because they dont need to turn !!!</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Why the bigotry?<!-- Signature -->
     
  3. the nsx is a pile of crap it has a small block v-6 that just sucks. the vette has a nice heft v-8 and is pure american muscle. the japs cant build a car half as good as us Americans. the bottom line is that all jap cars suck the vette will eat the nsx for breakfast!!!
     
  4. my 1975 dodge dart will hit 140 mph
     
  5. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from WAY2FAST4YOU</i>
    <b>Thank you very much BMW M, however if u were paying any attention to previous posts i have trying to make the same damn point for the past few weeks, however i thank you for agreeing.

    Secondly, this is not a psychological discussion forum, we can discuss my "problems" later, and what does this have to do with me/my parents being wealthy? They bought the NSX not because it is extremely fast, but because it is exotic.

    This forum was created by me to discuss the difference between an exotic or a slightly faster daily commuter. But i guess only a few of you got that point...</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->


    So you WAY2FAST4YOU think that you have been arguing the NSX's reliability and build quality as its supirior points huh? You lie like a rug. And i, partially because you piss me off, and partially because i am bored, but mainly because i oh yeah bored and pissed off and have two hours tillmy gig, will show you how full of shit you are. You waffle like a GOD DAMN politician "the NSX is faster, no it is more reliable, no i beat vettes at the track all the time, I have been trying to say that this entire time", you suck man. Quit talking on this board, or pick one argument and stick with it. To prove my argument.....

    post 1. ". I own a 2001 NSX and I make these sorry ass corvettes look stupid with consistency"
    do you remember saying that it was your first post asshole. There is nothing in your first post about reliability or quality, what BMW M said, and you said that you have been arguing. Now for post 2...

    post 2. "i cant handle the corvette, but after a few easy mods, i mean performance intake, exhaust, headers and gears/pulleys, im pushing around 345 HP, and i easily take corvettes...Lets not forget that the vette loses half its value after 1 year, never leaves the shop and is A CHEVY with electronics and powertrain that was last updated in the "12-th" century"
    Ok now you backtrack and say that you cant beat a vette, that you were lieing earlier, but that soon you will be able to, hmmmm. And here on the third page you finally adress something along the lines of what you previously sated has been your argument all along, but not all of it. you brought up resale, that you think the vette spends a lot of time in the shop and electronics, thats it. You also brought up engine size which is completely irrelavent so i will only mention in passing. now to waffle um errr post 3...


    post 3. "Because you get 4 things that you dont get with the vette, or even the Z-06 and that is 1) Reliability 2) Prestige 3) Longevity 4) COMFORT"
    There you go man, now you found an argument that is worth something, sweet congratulations. Lets see how long you can stay with it...

    post 4. short and means nothing

    post 5. "i need to tune my NSX to compete with a car that has over 2L larger engine, however with my LIGHT MODS that increased my horses by maybe 60-63, i tear corvettes left and right with extreme consistency...Oh and here is my NSX reaching 146 MPH in fourth gear at 8000 rpm, roughly the top speed of the corvette, only i have 1 more gear left i bet i could top off 170 EASILY.... CAN UR SILLY CORVETTE DO THIS? i think not... PUH-THETIC!"
    Lets look at this one shall we? No mention of longevity or reliability or quality like you said that you have been arguing. Instead you say that you HAVE modded your NSX and that youbeat vetttes with "extreme consistancy" when just 3 posts ago you said that you hadn't modded your car and that you couldnt hang with vettes, so which is it waffler? Huh? you are puh-thetic you ***** at people but you can even decide what argument you want to make, and how you want to lie about it. God you have a complex man, inferiority, napolean complex something. So now lets see what you say in post six, will it be what you have said that you have been arguing, you switch arguments every other post, but lets see.

    Post 6 "TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE THINGS THAT CANT BE DESCRIBED BY NUMBERS, LIKE PRESTIGE, RELIABILITY AND LONGEVITY"
    There you go big guy, making that argument that you say that you have been standing behind this entire time. Good job, you realize that you have no foot to stand on when it comes to a performance comparison, you have been called out about your lieing about your mods, you still have no proof that you have ever been to the track so i still dont believe that, so you switch your argument, good job very politician like of you.

    post 7 "coz i can see your corroded teeth...since they are made in such huge numbers their quality suffers significantly, that is why i hate the corvette, plus the tuneability of a corvette and NSX do not even come close, i have enough room to drop in a turbo, blower or even another engine, cant do that with the corvette without blowing a gasket"
    Well earlier you said something negative about resorting to petty shit talking and then here you go, coroded teeth and all, quite petty of you. Here in this post you touch on your points that you claim to have been standing behind this entire time, but hten you prove how ignorant you are by saying that your car can handle another engine, thats just dumb. Then you say that the vette cant handle forced induction, riiiight and that you cant mod a vette in general, riiiight. Do a little bit of research on the subject and maybe you will figure out where you are wrong (try lingenfelter, calloway and vortech). And on the same topic, if you had ever spent five minutes at an actuall drag stip you never would have made that statement, there are blown ls1 motors all over those strips, not to mention modded NA ls1's and lt1 camaros and vettes that regularly hit 10's and 11's. Once again more proof that you have never been to the track thus making you a liar.

    post 8. short and irrelavant

    post 9. "first of all i hate cops" YOU ARROGANT PRICK! sorry back to the quote, "1) Insane 2) Stupid 3) Experiencing high fever if you think that a heavy, slow, disguisting looking piece of shit like a caprice classic can #$%#in hang with the beautiful NSX.

    I mean what kind of a dumb shit do you have to be to put that sloppy looking excuse for a car in the same sentence with the NSX? Man I'm just gonna ignore all the arrogant pricks in this room."
    kinda funny, more "petty shit talking" coming from you. And in this post you prove just how litte you know about cars by comparing the looks of a caprice cop car to the looks of your NSX in respect to speed. LOOKS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH SPEED! come on man, at least make some sort of argument in this post that is worths something. Oh yeah i almost forgot, there is nothing in this post about reliability nor quality like you said that you have been arguing this entire time, hmmmmmm.

    And that brigs us to your most recent post where you speak like you have been preaching reliability and quality the entire thread even though you started with at performance comparo and waffled off that, then lied about mods, the waffled to quality,the waffled to performance ect... do you see what i am taling about. Probably not, and you probably will not reply to this post and ignore it like you do to most of my posts because you are too afraid of being wrong you would rather hide behind somebody else and just try to start flames because you are no intelligent enough to do anything else. You go live off mom and dad in the car you did nothing to earn and i will sit here and laugh at my complete waste of time but mainly at what an ignorant arrogant opinionated prick you are.



     
  6. GOD I HATE THIS SITE! WHY DOES IT NOT POST WHAT I WRITE !!! Then I do page back and its wipped! GRRRRRRRRR!!!<!-- Signature -->
     
  7. LOL tell us how you really feel and don't hold back this time!

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  8. Yeah don't sugar coat this LOL.<!-- Signature -->
     
  9. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from BMW M</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from sparetire</i>
    <b>BMW M.
    You said that "most" American muscle fans are arrogant. This is not true, and even if it were, you have no way to prove it or even make a solid argument about it. Go to the main US car forums and see how un-educated they are. There are plenty of people in there that like many types of cars. I even said in my post that I don't take what you have said personaly, so understand that I know you are not talking at me neccesarily. But your wrong. The fact that you are coming in here and explaining why others are wrong about the NSX due to non numerical qualities like reliablility and class is both true and off the point. This forum started with one person, for the sake of pissing of fans of a car, saying that Vettes suck. With stats and logic, he has been proven wrong. The remarks or r!cer were not made by everyone, and were not neccesary to proving him wrong. Those defending the Vette have used numbers and fact as much as anyone else. So, yeah, I have a right to be annoyed. Look at it from my point of veiw: A guy says, my exotic can rip this apart, and he says it in a derogatory fashion. Additionaly, he's plain wrong. So people prove him wrong. So the argument changes directions all the time. Now it has gone into the "refinement" catagory. We are off topic. Yes the Vette will beat out the NSX. No it is not more refined or as reliable. Anyone who debates this is not looking at facts. But don't go and say that if you like the Vette, you probably don't understand reliability. Its inaccurate and wrong, and it is derogatory.

    Those of you who say the NSX sucks are friggin' idiots. Its fast, good looking and relaible. It was never meant to be a bargain. The Vette really is. Thats all there is to it. This is a kinda dumb comparo. </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    I agree with everything you said except your point about people educated in the main US forum. Let's use the example of the head of the US forum LegendNH. This guy is just as ignorant as any supercar novice in terms of knowledge. It's true that he know about the vette in terms of numbers, but he's an asshole who promotes the spreading of anti-japanese car threads. When people approach him and tell him to contain psychos like Spyder757 who do nothing but create multiple spam threads on Anti-Japanese cars, he simply "supports" the inappropriate behaviour. So that kind of kills your argument along with the fact that I've never seen an American muscle fan condemning inappropriate flaming of Japanese or Euro cars. On several occasions, I've stood up for the vette and tried to open the eyes of others but I can't say the same for any American Muscle fans condemning anti-eurocar/japcar threads. And what do you do when one of the head moderators (LegendNH) promotes hostility and even uses the stereotypical word "r!cer" to describe high performing Jap cars like the Skyline, EVO, Supra, RX-7? So that kind of kills your argument about the "educated" muscle fans in the main American Car forum.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    You hit it on the nail again! Good 4 you ! <IMG SRC="http://www.supercars.net/servlets/cMsg/html/emoticons/smile.gif">
     
  10. #10 Guibo, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Haha, this is one of the funniest threads I've seen in awhile.

    First, let's lay down some hard numbers. Looking for a '02 Z06 that will hit 60 in 4.0 seconds? Here you go:
    http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/features/2001/December/200112_shorttake_chevyvettez06.xml?keywords=z06
    4.6 seconds? Maybe with Granny behind the wheel.

    Some lap times for you below.

    First one is from R&T's World's Best Sports Car comparo of '98. The Corvette there was the Indy 500 Pace Car replica limited edition, a convertible. And yet it is only .66 seconds off the pace of the hardtop NSX.

    What happens when you swap 'em, a C5 Coupe vs. an NST-T? You get C&D's Best Handling Car over $30K comparo below, where the NSX loses by 2.1 seconds.

    The Corvette is no slouch in the twisties. Oh, I forgot to mention: the Z06 will blow them both into the weeds.
     
  11. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from sparetire</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from WAY2FAST4YOU</i>
    <b>Aight, im a new user and im disguisted with the worshipping of the US sport cars, just like this corvette here. I own a 2001 NSX and I make these sorry ass corvettes look stupid with consistency.... PLEASE make a car that can compete with the big boys and that can last over 10 thousand miles..

    WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK, CAN THIS PIECE OF SHIT DO ANYTHING AGAINST THE NSX?</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from WAY2FAST4YOU</i>
    <b>aright, great replies, i appreciate it. AND yes, i do really own a 01 NSX, now stock your right, i cant handle the corvette, but after a few easy mods, i mean performance intake, exhaust, headers and gears/pulleys, im pushing around 345 HP, and i easily take corvettes, WITH a smaller engine. I race at qualcomm stadium in San Diego CA, and win with consistency. I out perform the vettes in the 1/8 and 1/4 AND also on the street my car is much much much more prestigious.

    Lets not forget that the vette loses half its value after 1 year, never leaves the shop and is A CHEVY with electronics and powertrain that was last updated in the "12-th" century... Besides American engeneering is the LACK of engeneering, i mean the only way an american car can generate 350 HP is my having a 5.7 L v8... PUH-THETIC... besides who got the 4.2 acceleration on the stock corvette? Car and driver tested the z-06 at 4.24.... Something here isnt right </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->


    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from WAY2FAST4YOU</i>
    <b>Big rob, what is there to reply about, you have nothing intelligent to say. And you call me a liar? what are you talking about, i have been nothing but honest; and yes we are ALL CAR FANS, now some of us are different types of car fans, there are those immature car fans, Also known as NUMBERS FANS, who click on the fastest 0-60 link and see some car that is probably the only one in the world and sit there in awe. Now if your a number fan i guess i cant argue with you, yes the corvette has better numbers, but if you are a TRUE CAR FAN you see my point and you agree with me on why the NSX is overall a better car. </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->


    These are your first quotes and then your last. You started this forum to bash the Vette on the basis that you will beat it in your NSX, by numbers. As you were shown to be wrong, you have changed arguments over and over again. You have not answered the questions asked you, and now you are just slamming other people. You are a hypocrite. Untill you answer the questions I have asked you, aknowledged that you are basicly wrong in what you said at the outset and just stopped being an ass, you have nothing. You are far from a true car enthusiast. How much have you worked to get your ride, oh yeah, it was given to you. Most people with a ride had to bust balls to get it, and that is pretty well important in who you call a true car enthusiast.

    BMW M, you are really pushing it. You have by virtue of the fact that I like US cars, accused me of being a stereotypical, ignorant, trouble causeing, import hating jackass. Look at any of my posts on any forum and try to pin that crap on me. With but a few exceptions among hundreds of posts (and those in responses to people like WAYTOFAST4U) you can not. There is a real irony that you are calling me a judgemental person here. I know its not personal, but I really don't care. You spouted some misleading crap. There are idiots of all types on this site. This thread was started to piss of the Domestic fans. There are fools who love and bash all types of cars, end of story.

    Read my post on page 2 people, it really answers a lot.
    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    What part of "why I hate MOST American Muscle fans" did you not see. I did not say that ALL American Muscle fans behave in the manner I described but many of them do. Did I once mention your name while expressing my opinion? You only have the right to get mad if I incorporated your name into the picture which I didn't. And if this thread was directed to piss of American Muscle fans, simply use facts to defend the vette instead of using the incorrect term "r!cer" to describe a high-performance exotic beauty like the NSX. Bashing the NSX to support the Corvette is not helping your cause as this thread is evidence of a prolonged flame war.<!-- Signature -->
     
  12. Well, think about it. With that extra $40,000 I have left over I could go out and turbocharge, intercool, cam, intake and exhaust to my Corvette with money left over. Those mods would take it to 500hp easily and would kick the hell out of your NSX.
     
  13. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from bigrob</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from WAY2FAST4YOU</i>
    <b>DAMN, BMW M basically broke down for everyone there is nothing more i can say... If someone is close minded there is nothing you can do to change their minds, Im not trying to change anyone's mind, im just trying to open up some minds in this forum to see my point of view, instead i get shameless put downs, falsified statistics and better yet ignorant #$%#s trying to force their ignorance upon everyone else</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    First to BMW M; I greatly respect your opinion on this matter as you stated it in your long ass post ( i know that i have made a couple of those) i think that your opinion is too broadly stated as all of the arguments that you made about people not cars hold true to the jap and euro car fans as well. There are portions of each side of the ocean's fan club that do the same shit, dont group all of us together or you become just as bad as the biased people that you are posting against.

    Now, WAY2FAST; you sir have no opinion of your own and as i stated earlier you waffle too much and lie on top of it. Now that BMW comes along and starts to argue a point that makes sence you hop on board and claim it as your own even though you had rarely mentioned those thoughts before (except for a slight mention when you were getting burned by your previous retarded posts). You need to stop hiding behind BMW and his opinions, get your own and stick with them for once.

    I know that WAY2FAST wont read nor reply to this post because he hasnt and wont reply to the last post that was made by me directed towards him, i have no choice but to think that it is because he knows that what i said in that "novel" a couple pages back is correct, and he has no way to dispute it. hmmm, i guess you really are ignorant WAY2FAST</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    I didn't mean to offend you and I certainly do not consider you as a person fitting into any of the criterion I described in my lengthy post.<!-- Signature -->
     
  14. BMW M.
    You said that "most" American muscle fans are arrogant. This is not true, and even if it were, you have no way to prove it or even make a solid argument about it. Go to the main US car forums and see how un-educated they are. There are plenty of people in there that like many types of cars. I even said in my post that I don't take what you have said personaly, so understand that I know you are not talking at me neccesarily. But your wrong. The fact that you are coming in here and explaining why others are wrong about the NSX due to non numerical qualities like reliablility and class is both true and off the point. This forum started with one person, for the sake of pissing of fans of a car, saying that Vettes suck. With stats and logic, he has been proven wrong. The remarks or r!cer were not made by everyone, and were not neccesary to proving him wrong. Those defending the Vette have used numbers and fact as much as anyone else. So, yeah, I have a right to be annoyed. Look at it from my point of veiw: A guy says, my exotic can rip this apart, and he says it in a derogatory fashion. Additionaly, he's plain wrong. So people prove him wrong. So the argument changes directions all the time. Now it has gone into the "refinement" catagory. We are off topic. Yes the Vette will beat out the NSX. No it is not more refined or as reliable. Anyone who debates this is not looking at facts. But don't go and say that if you like the Vette, you probably don't understand reliability. Its inaccurate and wrong, and it is derogatory.

    Those of you who say the NSX sucks are friggin' idiots. Its fast, good looking and relaible. It was never meant to be a bargain. The Vette really is. Thats all there is to it. This is a kinda dumb comparo. <!-- Signature -->
     
  15. I see what youre saying.
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  16. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from mpg</i>
    <b>Most of the stereotyping and generalizing that I've seen in my life has been right here on this website, and I've only been on this website for a tiny percentage of my life. It's been a real eye opener. I had no idea that there was so much anti-American sentiment among the English speaking people of the world. Most of them seem to be American too. I say that because of the type of English that they use.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Anti-American sentiment? If your referring to my lengthy post then I must challenge what you're accusing me of. When did I say I hate America or Americans in any of my posts? I said that I hate American MUSCLE FANS who are ignorant, annoying, and stereotypical. An American Muscle Fan can be an individual of any ethnicity NOT just American. And I didn't say I hate the Corvette but rather become soured on feeling interest towards it as many ignorant American Muscle fans make me and many other individuals feel that way by discriminating against the cars we like by using the Vette in every comparison and saying that cars like the Camaro are better than the M3? <!-- Signature -->
     
  17. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from BMW M</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Guibo</i>
    <b>BMW M:
    We don't get Ladas here in the States. Sure, the Corvette uses cheaper materials for the interior. Doesn't mean won't last as long. Remember the BMW L6, with its leather dash? They had lots of problems with that deteriorating within just a few short years. Ditto the early E36 dashes; they had to totally redo it after the '92 model year.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    If you read my previous post, you will see that I never stated that luxury=quality. I stated that luxury = a greater price tag and this is a well known fact. I was simply trying to illustrate that the NSX costs more because it has a premium interior and is a hand built automobile thus, leading to the $90,000 price tag. Most people seem to think that the $90,000 USD price tag is a "rip off"(American muscle fans) without considering factors other than performance. People do buy cars for reasons other than performance. It is for this reason that many individuals would pay $90,000 USD to get the balanced combination of luxury and performance that come with an NSX. And the point I gave about reliability is totally independent from the luxury factor. The mechanics, auto owners, auto professionals, and auto makers opinions and assessment that goes into the Consumer's Report Auto Magazine is highly reliable. The NSX and every Honda recieved the highest rating possible (a rating of exceptional) in terms of reliability, while every Chevy excluding the Cavalier and the Malibu were given the lowest rating (a rating of poor) in terms of reliability. Now the many of you who doubt my opinion, can't you at least trust the automotive experts, owners, and mechanics who's framework is highly reliable? So Guibo, I did not say that luxury= reliability I said that luxury= higher $$$ and I said that reliability= the assessment of automobile owners, experts, and mechanics. Are we clear? </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    BMW M, you hit a gram slam on this one! That is why I, representing all NSX-owners out there who at one time thought about purchasing a Z06,chose to pay more $$ for the NSX for these reason that you've mentioned above. In my case I paid $75,000 for a used 1999 Zanardi #50 of 50 6 mo. ago with 7,500 miles on the odo instead of a brand new (but rather ill-refined) Z06 that I liked so much just because of the sheer power it has. I've been driving really nice European and Japanese luxury cars and SUV's all of my life, and I just can't get myself to pay as high as $50,000 for a rather unrefined AMerican Muscle car like the Z06, even if it's such a wonderful performance bargain it really is. Don't get me wrong now guys, I really love the Z06 alot, but I only have one choice so I chose the NSX for more practical reasons. At this time I'm not getting a sports car to race it on a track. I wanted a car that I can drive spiritedly on the open road every now and then AND show off to all of my buddies and be the talk of the town (I'm what Tom Leykis called a male "attention whore" <IMG SRC="http://www.supercars.net/servlets/cMsg/html/emoticons/smile.gif">). I wanted a car that is designed to fit my smaller 5'6" Asian stature rather than trying to make myself fit into a car that's designed to fit 6 ft.+ tall White guys. I want a car that has a great resale value so that I can sell it off with ease and as little $$ lost possible, lord forbid that day will ever come (Actually I just might budge if some super-rich NSX fanatic 10 years from now will buy it off my hand for, let's say, $500,000+ for my Zanardi#50 of 50?? Hmmm...a good possibility and a good investment-one can only speculate! <IMG SRC="http://www.supercars.net/servlets/cMsg/html/emoticons/smile.gif">). AND most importantly, I want to own a car that is so utterly reliable that 1996 JD Power Associate's survey ranked the NSX #1, above the ES430 and Accord in reliability! That's really incredible for an MR super sports exotic to be able to top practical FF sedans! THESE are the reasons why I chose the NSX over the Z06. In the long run, it pays to own an NSX. But that doesn't stop me from lusting after a Z06, only if it's leased for three years though. Some day soon I will get myself one as soon as I can find time and $$ to get myself out on the track for some serious club road-racing! <IMG SRC="http://www.supercars.net/servlets/cMsg/html/emoticons/smile.gif">
     
  18. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Zanardi 50</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from BMW M</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Guibo</i>
    <b>BMW M:
    We don't get Ladas here in the States. Sure, the Corvette uses cheaper materials for the interior. Doesn't mean won't last as long. Remember the BMW L6, with its leather dash? They had lots of problems with that deteriorating within just a few short years. Ditto the early E36 dashes; they had to totally redo it after the '92 model year.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    If you read my previous post, you will see that I never stated that luxury=quality. I stated that luxury = a greater price tag and this is a well known fact. I was simply trying to illustrate that the NSX costs more because it has a premium interior and is a hand built automobile thus, leading to the $90,000 price tag. Most people seem to think that the $90,000 USD price tag is a "rip off"(American muscle fans) without considering factors other than performance. People do buy cars for reasons other than performance. It is for this reason that many individuals would pay $90,000 USD to get the balanced combination of luxury and performance that come with an NSX. And the point I gave about reliability is totally independent from the luxury factor. The mechanics, auto owners, auto professionals, and auto makers opinions and assessment that goes into the Consumer's Report Auto Magazine is highly reliable. The NSX and every Honda recieved the highest rating possible (a rating of exceptional) in terms of reliability, while every Chevy excluding the Cavalier and the Malibu were given the lowest rating (a rating of poor) in terms of reliability. Now the many of you who doubt my opinion, can't you at least trust the automotive experts, owners, and mechanics who's framework is highly reliable? So Guibo, I did not say that luxury= reliability I said that luxury= higher $$$ and I said that reliability= the assessment of automobile owners, experts, and mechanics. Are we clear? </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    BMW M, you hit a gram slam on this one! That is why I, representing all NSX-owners out there who at one time thought about purchasing a Z06,chose to pay more $$ for the NSX for these reason that you've mentioned above. In my case I paid $75,000 for a used 1999 Zanardi #50 of 50 6 mo. ago with 7,500 miles on the odo instead of a brand new (but rather ill-refined) Z06 that I liked so much just because of the sheer power it has. I've been driving really nice European and Japanese luxury cars and SUV's all of my life, and I just can't get myself to pay as high as $50,000 for a rather unrefined AMerican Muscle car like the Z06, even if it's such a wonderful performance bargain it really is. Don't get me wrong now guys, I really love the Z06 alot, but I only have one choice so I chose the NSX for more practical reasons. At this time I'm not getting a sports car to race it on a track. I wanted a car that I can drive spiritedly on the open road every now and then AND show off to all of my buddies and be the talk of the town (I'm what Tom Leykis called a male "attention whore" <IMG SRC="http://www.supercars.net/servlets/cMsg/html/emoticons/smile.gif">). I wanted a car that is designed to fit my smaller 5'6" Asian stature rather than trying to make myself fit into a car that's designed to fit 6 ft.+ tall White guys. I want a car that has a great resale value so that I can sell it off with ease and as little $$ lost possible, lord forbid that day will ever come (Actually I just might budge if some super-rich NSX fanatic 10 years from now will buy it off my hand for, let's say, $500,000+ for my Zanardi#50 of 50?? Hmmm...a good possibility and a good investment-one can only speculate! <IMG SRC="http://www.supercars.net/servlets/cMsg/html/emoticons/smile.gif">). AND most importantly, I want to own a car that is so utterly reliable that 1996 JD Power Associate's survey ranked the NSX #1, above the ES430 and Accord in reliability! That's really incredible for an MR super sports exotic to be able to top practical FF sedans! THESE are the reasons why I chose the NSX over the Z06. In the long run, it pays to own an NSX. But that doesn't stop me from lusting after a Z06, only if it's leased for three years though. Some day soon I will get myself one as soon as I can find time and $$ to get myself out on the track for some serious club road-racing! <IMG SRC="http://www.supercars.net/servlets/cMsg/html/emoticons/smile.gif"></b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Finally someone who understands the points I'm trying to illustrate without making cheap attempts to disprove me by saying that "Consumer's Report Auto Magazine is not credible" (Guibo). And Zanardi 50, good for you!!! The Zanardi NSX is not only well built for all around great performance, it will also appreciate in value as it was built in limited numbers and will soon be a hot collector's item. Mario Andretti called the NSX the "best handling car he's ever driven". Enjoy your NSX and don't let any ignorant fool tell you that the NSX is a "ripoff" since you get a Z06 for cheaper. The NSX is highly reliable, has quality parts, premium luxury, and one of strongest build suspensions and chassis around. <IMG SRC="http://www.supercars.net/servlets/cMsg/html/emoticons/smile.gif"><!-- Signature -->
     
  19. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from sparetire</i>
    <b>BMW M.
    You said that "most" American muscle fans are arrogant. This is not true, and even if it were, you have no way to prove it or even make a solid argument about it. Go to the main US car forums and see how un-educated they are. There are plenty of people in there that like many types of cars. I even said in my post that I don't take what you have said personaly, so understand that I know you are not talking at me neccesarily. But your wrong. The fact that you are coming in here and explaining why others are wrong about the NSX due to non numerical qualities like reliablility and class is both true and off the point. This forum started with one person, for the sake of pissing of fans of a car, saying that Vettes suck. With stats and logic, he has been proven wrong. The remarks or r!cer were not made by everyone, and were not neccesary to proving him wrong. Those defending the Vette have used numbers and fact as much as anyone else. So, yeah, I have a right to be annoyed. Look at it from my point of veiw: A guy says, my exotic can rip this apart, and he says it in a derogatory fashion. Additionaly, he's plain wrong. So people prove him wrong. So the argument changes directions all the time. Now it has gone into the "refinement" catagory. We are off topic. Yes the Vette will beat out the NSX. No it is not more refined or as reliable. Anyone who debates this is not looking at facts. But don't go and say that if you like the Vette, you probably don't understand reliability. Its inaccurate and wrong, and it is derogatory.

    Those of you who say the NSX sucks are friggin' idiots. Its fast, good looking and relaible. It was never meant to be a bargain. The Vette really is. Thats all there is to it. This is a kinda dumb comparo. </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    I agree with everything you said except your point about people educated in the main US forum. Let's use the example of the head of the US forum LegendNH. This guy is just as ignorant as any supercar novice in terms of knowledge. It's true that he know about the vette in terms of numbers, but he's an asshole who promotes the spreading of anti-japanese car threads. When people approach him and tell him to contain psychos like Spyder757 who do nothing but create multiple spam threads on Anti-Japanese cars, he simply "supports" the inappropriate behaviour. So that kind of kills your argument along with the fact that I've never seen an American muscle fan condemning inappropriate flaming of Japanese or Euro cars. On several occasions, I've stood up for the vette and tried to open the eyes of others but I can't say the same for any American Muscle fans condemning anti-eurocar/japcar threads. And what do you do when one of the head moderators (LegendNH) promotes hostility and even uses the stereotypical word "r!cer" to describe high performing Jap cars like the Skyline, EVO, Supra, RX-7? So that kind of kills your argument about the "educated" muscle fans in the main American Car forum.<!-- Signature -->
     
  20. Okay, after watching 5 pages build up of quotes Im gonna throw in my two cents. This is primarily for BMW, and WAY2FAST4U

    Stereotypes or american automotives.

    1. American cars dont retain value.

    -True in cases of Cavaliers and common cars of that nature. Corvettes and other limited prodution vehicals however retain value immensly if not increase in value. Case in point, the 94-96 series Impala SS, from the showroom stickered at 22500. It is now 7 years later in model years and you cant find one with under 50K miles for under 18,000 if not more if they've been garage kept. It has more to do with collectability than brand. 20 years from now nobodys gonna be killing themselves to get that 1993 Honda Civic, but people will still be looking for a 2002 ZO6.

    2. All american muscle cars are about cubic inches and nothing more.

    - Look up the Grand National or Regal Turbo sometime from the 1980's. 3.8 liter turbo that will run 13.5's from the factory. This car today with 2 grand in bolt-ons can run 12's trust me I've seen it.

    3. All american engines are low technology and require size to get performance.

    - First off a 5.7 liter is not that big of a motor. You want technology in the vette. C4 series vette came out in 1984 with a crossfire injected truck derived 5.7 liter cranking 220 at peak H/p. in 1991 they went to the LT1 5.7 liter. This was the FIRST!!!! engine to use OBD computer monitoring systems on both the engine and the tranny. It went from Throttle body injection to Sequential port injection, something you'll find on the NSX. Reverse flow coolent system (no coolant threw the T/B), new cam, alluminium heads, and about 3 million dollors of R&D this made a 300HP 335 Lbs ft. monster of a motor. And they Beefed it up even more in 96' with the LT4grand sport, new cam, new heads, new intake manifold, and bigger injectors, and went from 300hp up to 335hp. These were still built on an Iron block. 97 LS1 came out for the vette all alluminum engine, yet again an OHV engine, why? because they wanted a wide torque curve.

    4. Americans use OHV engines because they cant make a big engine rev high enough to develop power on OHC.

    - Nascar motors red line at 9000 rpm. And they are 5.7 liter motors bored over to near paper thin cyclinder walls, so dont even tell me our motors cant handle it. We use OHV engines because they have a wider torque curve, weigh less, and have a lower center of gravity. Case in point, the moter in the M3 ways more than the 5.7 liter all alluminium LS1 or LS6 and its smaller.

    5. All americans hate foreign cars.

    - First off, go to hell. I lived in Europe, I like Lambo and Austin Martin, and Mercedes, along with a whole mess of other particular cars. But really when you look at it, they're are no more foriegn cars. Nissan uses ford motors. Jauguar is owned by ford. Saab is now part of GM. Mercedes and Chrysler are partners. Motor companys today are doing the same thing aviation company's did 15 years ago. And it goes both ways. The new chevys have radiator's built by mitsubishi, and it just keeps on going.

    6. Americans only care about straight line performance, thats why there cars handle so badly.

    - Well who won La Mans in 2001 in the rain no less, A C5R. Not a Ferrari, not a Porche. But one of those "poor handling, Low tech" corvettes. And this wasnt the first time we've won that race. Look at the years with Ford and the GT40, Ferrari Left the series so they wouldnt be beatin by Ford's on the track. They didnt come back untill the execs at Ford killed the Factory sponcered race teams. Pretty easy for European cars to win when they're isnt any american competition due to Company policy's.


    Seems you guys ***** about stereo typical Americans, yet you make your own assumptions. You might want to open your minds up, but first you may need to pull your head out your ass.


    <!-- Signature -->
     
  21. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Lawman9C1</i>
    <b>Okay, after watching 5 pages build up of quotes Im gonna throw in my two cents. This is primarily for BMW, and WAY2FAST4U

    Stereotypes or american automotives.

    1. American cars dont retain value.

    -True in cases of Cavaliers and common cars of that nature. Corvettes and other limited prodution vehicals however retain value immensly if not increase in value. Case in point, the 94-96 series Impala SS, from the showroom stickered at 22500. It is now 7 years later in model years and you cant find one with under 50K miles for under 18,000 if not more if they've been garage kept. It has more to do with collectability than brand. 20 years from now nobodys gonna be killing themselves to get that 1993 Honda Civic, but people will still be looking for a 2002 ZO6.

    2. All american muscle cars are about cubic inches and nothing more.

    - Look up the Grand National or Regal Turbo sometime from the 1980's. 3.8 liter turbo that will run 13.5's from the factory. This car today with 2 grand in bolt-ons can run 12's trust me I've seen it.

    3. All american engines are low technology and require size to get performance.

    - First off a 5.7 liter is not that big of a motor. You want technology in the vette. C4 series vette came out in 1984 with a crossfire injected truck derived 5.7 liter cranking 220 at peak H/p. in 1991 they went to the LT1 5.7 liter. This was the FIRST!!!! engine to use OBD computer monitoring systems on both the engine and the tranny. It went from Throttle body injection to Sequential port injection, something you'll find on the NSX. Reverse flow coolent system (no coolant threw the T/B), new cam, alluminium heads, and about 3 million dollors of R&D this made a 300HP 335 Lbs ft. monster of a motor. And they Beefed it up even more in 96' with the LT4grand sport, new cam, new heads, new intake manifold, and bigger injectors, and went from 300hp up to 335hp. These were still built on an Iron block. 97 LS1 came out for the vette all alluminum engine, yet again an OHV engine, why? because they wanted a wide torque curve.

    4. Americans use OHV engines because they cant make a big engine rev high enough to develop power on OHC.

    - Nascar motors red line at 9000 rpm. And they are 5.7 liter motors bored over to near paper thin cyclinder walls, so dont even tell me our motors cant handle it. We use OHV engines because they have a wider torque curve, weigh less, and have a lower center of gravity. Case in point, the moter in the M3 ways more than the 5.7 liter all alluminium LS1 or LS6 and its smaller.

    5. All americans hate foreign cars.

    - First off, go to hell. I lived in Europe, I like Lambo and Austin Martin, and Mercedes, along with a whole mess of other particular cars. But really when you look at it, they're are no more foriegn cars. Nissan uses ford motors. Jauguar is owned by ford. Saab is now part of GM. Mercedes and Chrysler are partners. Motor companys today are doing the same thing aviation company's did 15 years ago. And it goes both ways. The new chevys have radiator's built by mitsubishi, and it just keeps on going.

    6. Americans only care about straight line performance, thats why there cars handle so badly.

    - Well who won La Mans in 2001 in the rain no less, A C5R. Not a Ferrari, not a Porche. But one of those "poor handling, Low tech" corvettes. And this wasnt the first time we've won that race. Look at the years with Ford and the GT40, Ferrari Left the series so they wouldnt be beatin by Ford's on the track. They didnt come back untill the execs at Ford killed the Factory sponcered race teams. Pretty easy for European cars to win when they're isnt any american competition due to Company policy's.


    Seems you guys ***** about stereo typical Americans, yet you make your own assumptions. You might want to open your minds up, but first you may need to pull your head out your ass.


    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    I think you're the one that needs to get your head out of your ass and stop using crack because I didn't say any of the things you listed. Your just twisting my words around and showing your ignorance.

    Going to your first point I never said that a Civic retains its value better than a Corvette. You must be illiterate if you can't understand what I wrote. I said that the NSX retains it's value RELATIVELY greater than the Corvette since it's more exotic(rare)and has higher reliability and luxury. And as for the Civic, it will retain its value greater than any other car vehicle in its class (Cavalier, Grand Am, Focus, Golf, etc...).

    Moving on to your 5th point, I did not say that ALL Americans hate imports. I said that MOST American Car ENTHUSIASTS(an American car enthusiast can be a person of any nationality) are ignorant in discarding reliability, quality, and luxury into the price, and most of them are ignorant in using the stereotypical word "r!cer" to describe high performing vehicles like the NSX, Supra, Evo when they don't even have knowledge of the definition of the word "r!cer". It's like me correlating the performance of a Cavalier to that of a Corvette Z06 just because they are both cars built by GM.

    Regarding your sixth post, I never said that the "corvette is only good in a straight line". I actually admitted that the corvette is one of the best handling cars on the road. I simply stated that the vette is too "torquey" as a test conducted by R&T professionals confirms that the excess torque is "too responsive" in wet weather conditions. And why do you bring up the C5-R? The C5-R costs $200,000 and is a totally different vette altogether in terms of handling, power, and aerodynamics so how can you say that the Z06 matches its manuverability in wet weather? I have a reference (R&T), do you have a reference showing that the Z06 can infact outhandle a 911 or an M3 like a Lemans car (C5-R) would? That's a stupid comment on your part because it's like me saying that the M3 handles equally as well as an M3 GTR. You really like twisting things around don't you?<!-- Signature -->
     
  22. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from BMW M</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Lawman9C1</i>
    <b>Okay, after watching 5 pages build up of quotes Im gonna throw in my two cents. This is primarily for BMW, and WAY2FAST4U

    Stereotypes or american automotives.

    1. American cars dont retain value.

    -True in cases of Cavaliers and common cars of that nature. Corvettes and other limited prodution vehicals however retain value immensly if not increase in value. Case in point, the 94-96 series Impala SS, from the showroom stickered at 22500. It is now 7 years later in model years and you cant find one with under 50K miles for under 18,000 if not more if they've been garage kept. It has more to do with collectability than brand. 20 years from now nobodys gonna be killing themselves to get that 1993 Honda Civic, but people will still be looking for a 2002 ZO6.

    2. All american muscle cars are about cubic inches and nothing more.

    - Look up the Grand National or Regal Turbo sometime from the 1980's. 3.8 liter turbo that will run 13.5's from the factory. This car today with 2 grand in bolt-ons can run 12's trust me I've seen it.

    3. All american engines are low technology and require size to get performance.

    - First off a 5.7 liter is not that big of a motor. You want technology in the vette. C4 series vette came out in 1984 with a crossfire injected truck derived 5.7 liter cranking 220 at peak H/p. in 1991 they went to the LT1 5.7 liter. This was the FIRST!!!! engine to use OBD computer monitoring systems on both the engine and the tranny. It went from Throttle body injection to Sequential port injection, something you'll find on the NSX. Reverse flow coolent system (no coolant threw the T/B), new cam, alluminium heads, and about 3 million dollors of R&D this made a 300HP 335 Lbs ft. monster of a motor. And they Beefed it up even more in 96' with the LT4grand sport, new cam, new heads, new intake manifold, and bigger injectors, and went from 300hp up to 335hp. These were still built on an Iron block. 97 LS1 came out for the vette all alluminum engine, yet again an OHV engine, why? because they wanted a wide torque curve.

    4. Americans use OHV engines because they cant make a big engine rev high enough to develop power on OHC.

    - Nascar motors red line at 9000 rpm. And they are 5.7 liter motors bored over to near paper thin cyclinder walls, so dont even tell me our motors cant handle it. We use OHV engines because they have a wider torque curve, weigh less, and have a lower center of gravity. Case in point, the moter in the M3 ways more than the 5.7 liter all alluminium LS1 or LS6 and its smaller.

    5. All americans hate foreign cars.

    - First off, go to hell. I lived in Europe, I like Lambo and Austin Martin, and Mercedes, along with a whole mess of other particular cars. But really when you look at it, they're are no more foriegn cars. Nissan uses ford motors. Jauguar is owned by ford. Saab is now part of GM. Mercedes and Chrysler are partners. Motor companys today are doing the same thing aviation company's did 15 years ago. And it goes both ways. The new chevys have radiator's built by mitsubishi, and it just keeps on going.

    6. Americans only care about straight line performance, thats why there cars handle so badly.

    - Well who won La Mans in 2001 in the rain no less, A C5R. Not a Ferrari, not a Porche. But one of those "poor handling, Low tech" corvettes. And this wasnt the first time we've won that race. Look at the years with Ford and the GT40, Ferrari Left the series so they wouldnt be beatin by Ford's on the track. They didnt come back untill the execs at Ford killed the Factory sponcered race teams. Pretty easy for European cars to win when they're isnt any american competition due to Company policy's.


    Seems you guys ***** about stereo typical Americans, yet you make your own assumptions. You might want to open your minds up, but first you may need to pull your head out your ass.


    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    I think you're the one that needs to get your head out of your ass and stop using crack because I didn't say any of the things you listed. Your just twisting my words around and showing your ignorance.

    Going to your first point I never said that a Civic retains its value better than a Corvette. You must be illiterate if you can't understand what I wrote. I said that the NSX retains it's value RELATIVELY greater than the Corvette since it's more exotic(rare)and has higher reliability and luxury. And as for the Civic, it will retain its value greater than any other car vehicle in its class (Cavalier, Grand Am, Focus, Golf, etc...).

    Moving on to your 5th point, I did not say that ALL Americans hate imports. I said that MOST American Car ENTHUSIASTS(an American car enthusiast can be a person of any nationality) are ignorant in discarding reliability, quality, and luxury into the price, and most of them are ignorant in using the stereotypical word "r!cer" to describe high performing vehicles like the NSX, Supra, Evo when they don't even have knowledge of the definition of the word "r!cer". It's like me correlating the performance of a Cavalier to that of a Corvette Z06 just because they are both cars built by GM.

    Regarding your sixth post, I never said that the "corvette is only good in a straight line". I actually admitted that the corvette is one of the best handling cars on the road. I simply stated that the vette is too "torquey" as a test conducted by R&T professionals confirms that the excess torque is "too responsive" in wet weather conditions. And why do you bring up the C5-R? The C5-R costs $200,000 and is a totally different vette altogether in terms of handling, power, and aerodynamics so how can you say that the Z06 matches its manuverability in wet weather? I have a reference (R&T), do you have a reference showing that the Z06 can infact outhandle a 911 or an M3 like a Lemans car (C5-R) would? That's a stupid comment on your part because it's like me saying that the M3 handles equally as well as an M3 GTR. You really like twisting things around don't you?</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Okay, I know this is gonna be a god awful long post, but this is the only way I can be sure everybody understands what Im responding too.

    First, BMW this post wasnt targeted directly at you or your posts, the begining part was because I wanted to be sure that both you and WAY2FAST4You read this one in particular. Im glad you responded, frankly your one of the few people on this site that car argue with logic and fact rather than "XXX car sucks balls an XXX would eat it."

    The post was targeted directly at stereotypes of american car enthusiast, and while you didnt state that "ALL" of us were the way you described the general Muscle fan, you did Imply it that way. So dont take this whole post as a direct arguement to what you've said, its just a colaberation of all the Bullshit arguements Ive heard against American performance vehicals while ive been a member of this site.

    In responce, to what you said about my post.

    point 1-Reletively the 67' 427 Corvette Stingray holds its value better than the NSX, reletively the 67' Shelby GT 350 and GT 500 do even better. SO WHAT!!!!! if your gonna sell the car in 5 years why'd you buy it. Ive got a Chevy thats 6 years old with 120K on it, Ill sell it when the Friggen wheels come off, till then its my baby.

    point 5-No you didnt, and yes I know the differance. An NSX isnt r%ce, a 3000GT VR4 isnt r%ce, but a Honda civic with Type R stickers and a three foot wing thats r%ce. I think they should teach R%ce Recognition in Drivers Ed. As for not defending others and yelling at the morons that do post Spam, Look at me for example, I've posted on sites other than American cars, the Lotus elise, the M3, and a few others of that type. Im not general with my claims. There are a good bit of foreign cars I admire, but I would trade my car, my soul, and my girlfriend for a 1967' 427 tripower Stingray, so when somebody like WAY2FAST4U comes over with his high and mighty attitude, guys like me will answer the call out of pride and respect.

    Point 6-No you didnt say it was only good in a straight line, but you wana know how many times Ive heard "my porche could take it on a road course." Its insane. Your point is interesting, first off as somebody who's been threw high speed pursuit training, If you need traction contral to keep yourself on the road, you shouldnt be driving the car. And your point on the ZO6 being having to much torque in rainy conditions. What the hell are you doing flooring it in the rain, you got a death wish or something. Any car can get away from you if you dont watch it, yet again if you cant keep it under control you shouldnt be driving it.

    Last point- the C5R simple, everybody says american racing is just about the 1/4 mile, that we dont care about handling. This was a direct responce to that. We envented the trans am series, and dominate in GTS so yeah we do care. Yes I know the C5R is a hell or a differnt car, but everything on the C5R was designed by the same people that built the vette, so its not like they didnt know what they were doing when they built the vette.

    Another one I remembered after the first post, and I really want WAY2FAST4U to read this.

    1. American cars have crappy reliability.

    - Answer this what car holds the World record for 100 hour endurance at top performance. Answer the ZR1 corvette. Not a Ferrari, not a NSX, or a porche, but a 5.7 liter LS5 equiped ZR1 corvette. So wheres your arguement now. You want reliability and longevity, take a look at the Chevy Caprice 9C1 police interceptor with the LT1 350, or the 71' Fury III police package with the 383 cubic inch engine, thats reliability my friend.

    2. Americans dont care about Leather and Interior comfort and such.

    - Hey, I lived in Florida, I hate leather of any kind, but yeah the standard GM leather is kinda low end. However we care about our comfort and such. We have 6 way power seats and all sorts of funky gadgets to play with in our top end cars. But I dont see these in Japanese or European Low end cars so why should we have them in our Cavaliers and Taurus's. As for the Vette, hey personally I'd go get a cloth interior if they had one, but If you want premium leather there are plenty of aftermarket company's out there more than willing to do it for you. My dad did the same with his truck, and Im in the middle of decking out my personal vehical with a whole bunch of do-dads and stuff.
    <!-- Signature -->
     
  23. Quote from BMW M
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    " I also respect the fact that you used logic in your last post. But in response to your last post I have a couple of answers: Yes your absolutely right that a 67 Stingray Corvette retains its value better than that of an NSX, but that's quite obvious since the Stingray is a collector's item that appreciates (rather than depreciating) in value. When I said that the NSX holds its value relatively better than a Corvette, I meant a NEW Corvette not a classical one as it wouldn't be a fair comparison in the first place to compare price tags of cars with over 30 years of age separation. I've seen 99 Corvette's for $30,000 and that's far less than a 67 Stingray in good condition would go. And yes depreciation is an important factor to consider because you'll never know when it becomes obligatory to sell a $50,000 vehicle. People might have kids coming on way and I highly doubt that a 2 seater is practical for the mobility of an infant. Another reason is that people might have to sell their car for the purpose of repaying debt, thus making depreciation an important factor to consider.

    Your definition of r!ce was right on the money, but why should people be condemned from changing the appearance of their car? In a country of democracy don't people have a freedom of expression? Considering how your a cop, I do hope you understand this right. Actually if done correctly, some aesthetic modifications like custom paint or a right size spoiler can make a car look attractive. And many people modify the looks of their cars because the image of a "fast car" is important to them.

    Moving on to the 6th point, yes if you're a professional driver you can control the poorest handling car. But lets be honest here, the norms are just "average" drivers and it would be quite reassuring to have super traction that enhances driver/passenger safety during seasons of high levels of precipitation. The people at R&T are highly trained professional drivers and they claimed in a road test that the Corvettes Monstrous Torque (which I love) is too responsive for in wet weather condtions but the M3 and the 911 handled like a charm in wet weather conditions. But that doesn't mean that the Z06 is a poor handler when in fact in outhandles many supercars with its active handling system, specially designed treaded tires, and it's electronic weight distributor.

    And I must comment on another point that you made on Japanese cars not having the same multi seat control gadgets. The base economic Japanese cars may not have it, but Lexus and Acura which are amongst the elite in terms of luxury have the most highly advanced technology options that could match BMW, Mercedes, and Cadillac.

    In conclusion, I do love the vette but the only thing that bothers me is when I encounter the ignorance I previously described on numerous occasions. I can see that you are not a typical ignorant person Lawman and I respect the fact that you use logic and evidence in your posts. "
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Well, with the 67' stingray, the 96 Impala, there collectors items. But, in 30 years most of the cars on this site can have a shot at collectors items.

    As for why we condem r%ce, I had a friend in Highschool who spent 5 grand on a 2 grand 93' Honda civic who didnt understand why both me and my father thought he was crazy. Id personnally torn his engine apart and helped rebuild it. When he bought it it was driving on 2 out of 4 cyclinders had 160k miles and had never had any fluids changed other than oil. It was beaten to death but he still wanted to put all the money into a body kit, and wheels, and other cosmetic changes rather than realizing that the motor and tranny needed a major refurbishing. I see the same thing with alot of guys in that group. Turbo's on Burnt up engines, racing Rx-7's with fried apex seals, lowering a car to the ground and wondering why ater 10k miles your spindles and rotors are toast. I think thats why alot ot the more educated muscle heads dont like r%cers.

    As for why I think the normal drivers shouldnt be driving this car. Thats one of the things I absolutely admire company's like BMW for. You buy a new M3, they will set you up with a profesional driving school. Teach you all the tricks of emergency lane change, skid evasion, and a whole mess of other stuff. I beleive anybody buying a car of this nature should be required to go threw such training.

    Yes I know acura, lexus, BMW, Merceded, and Caddilac all have there luxury toys and gadgets. Hell my caprice has power seats and I love it. <!-- Signature -->
     
  24. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Lawman9C1</i>
    <b>Quote from BMW M
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    " I also respect the fact that you used logic in your last post. But in response to your last post I have a couple of answers: Yes your absolutely right that a 67 Stingray Corvette retains its value better than that of an NSX, but that's quite obvious since the Stingray is a collector's item that appreciates (rather than depreciating) in value. When I said that the NSX holds its value relatively better than a Corvette, I meant a NEW Corvette not a classical one as it wouldn't be a fair comparison in the first place to compare price tags of cars with over 30 years of age separation. I've seen 99 Corvette's for $30,000 and that's far less than a 67 Stingray in good condition would go. And yes depreciation is an important factor to consider because you'll never know when it becomes obligatory to sell a $50,000 vehicle. People might have kids coming on way and I highly doubt that a 2 seater is practical for the mobility of an infant. Another reason is that people might have to sell their car for the purpose of repaying debt, thus making depreciation an important factor to consider.

    Your definition of r!ce was right on the money, but why should people be condemned from changing the appearance of their car? In a country of democracy don't people have a freedom of expression? Considering how your a cop, I do hope you understand this right. Actually if done correctly, some aesthetic modifications like custom paint or a right size spoiler can make a car look attractive. And many people modify the looks of their cars because the image of a "fast car" is important to them.

    Moving on to the 6th point, yes if you're a professional driver you can control the poorest handling car. But lets be honest here, the norms are just "average" drivers and it would be quite reassuring to have super traction that enhances driver/passenger safety during seasons of high levels of precipitation. The people at R&T are highly trained professional drivers and they claimed in a road test that the Corvettes Monstrous Torque (which I love) is too responsive for in wet weather condtions but the M3 and the 911 handled like a charm in wet weather conditions. But that doesn't mean that the Z06 is a poor handler when in fact in outhandles many supercars with its active handling system, specially designed treaded tires, and it's electronic weight distributor.

    And I must comment on another point that you made on Japanese cars not having the same multi seat control gadgets. The base economic Japanese cars may not have it, but Lexus and Acura which are amongst the elite in terms of luxury have the most highly advanced technology options that could match BMW, Mercedes, and Cadillac.

    In conclusion, I do love the vette but the only thing that bothers me is when I encounter the ignorance I previously described on numerous occasions. I can see that you are not a typical ignorant person Lawman and I respect the fact that you use logic and evidence in your posts. "
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    Well, with the 67' stingray, the 96 Impala, there collectors items. But, in 30 years most of the cars on this site can have a shot at collectors items.

    As for why we condem r%ce, I had a friend in Highschool who spent 5 grand on a 2 grand 93' Honda civic who didnt understand why both me and my father thought he was crazy. Id personnally torn his engine apart and helped rebuild it. When he bought it it was driving on 2 out of 4 cyclinders had 160k miles and had never had any fluids changed other than oil. It was beaten to death but he still wanted to put all the money into a body kit, and wheels, and other cosmetic changes rather than realizing that the motor and tranny needed a major refurbishing. I see the same thing with alot of guys in that group. Turbo's on Burnt up engines, racing Rx-7's with fried apex seals, lowering a car to the ground and wondering why ater 10k miles your spindles and rotors are toast. I think thats why alot ot the more educated muscle heads dont like r%cers.

    As for why I think the normal drivers shouldnt be driving this car. Thats one of the things I absolutely admire company's like BMW for. You buy a new M3, they will set you up with a profesional driving school. Teach you all the tricks of emergency lane change, skid evasion, and a whole mess of other stuff. I beleive anybody buying a car of this nature should be required to go threw such training.

    Yes I know acura, lexus, BMW, Merceded, and Caddilac all have there luxury toys and gadgets. Hell my caprice has power seats and I love it. </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    The r!cer you just described doesn't even deserve to be called r!cer because that's just plain stupid and ignorant. But I have a couple of friends who would be considered r!cer althought they shouldn't (because they've done some heavy mod work on their engines). One of friends bought a nice 97 Integra GSR and it was practically in mint condition. He properly got a twin turbos added to his Integra and with other engine mods, he had bhp boosted to about 350 bhp. He also had a nice sporty spoiler (not a gigantic wing) that made his car look more attractive. With the proper modifications he was doing the quarter mile in 11 seconds flat on the drag strip. Well I guess he wouldn't be considered a r!cer because his car is actually very fast, but I've seen many other people who tastefully modify their car's appearance and keep their engine and other internal parts in perfect working condition. Well I guess a couple of idiots like the person you described give a bad rap for the majority of the others and that's how stereotypes get started. :(

    And yes I do agree that driving school should be mandatory people wish to own high performing vehicles like the M3, Z06, Viper, 911, etc....<!-- Signature -->
     

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