Re: Diablo GT vs. Mclaren F1

Discussion in '1999 Lamborghini Diablo GT' started by Dave-GTR, Aug 9, 2002.

  1. I am sorry, but Road and Track DID test the Murc, in the January 2002 issue, and I have the damn book , and that's what it said.

    Secondly, F50s aren't allow to race, you have to sign a contract when you purchase the damn thing that you cannot officially race with it. And I bet if you race it unofficially, it can beat any other car.
    The two examples of F50 GTR, did not get a chance to race before the project was cancelled because Ferrari think the money they put in to this super race car is more than what it will return.

    Diablo GT might be the replacement for the SV, but I don't care, it's the street version of the GT2, just like the Porsche GT2, it's based on the GT2 race car. I don't care what it replaces, it's street-legal race car. But it's still not as good as F50 or McLaren F1.

    As I've said many times, Lambo has bad handling. It might have super speed, super styling (the diablo), super accel, etc, but if you want to win races other than drag race, then u need handling, which both Porsche and Ferrari is superior. And in terms of speed, McLaren is faster. So, not to say that Lambo is crappy, hell no, but who the hell still use a steel chassis for a super car that's worth more than $300 000? Lambo's are just too heavy, and bad chassis design from the start. I think Lambo would like to design a good supercar, they should really start from scratch instead of building on a old platform.
     
  2. #52 Christianmc, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    I'm going to get nowhere telling you that Lamborghini's have good handeling, because otherwise the GT would not be beating cars like the Lister Storm and the Viper GTS-R in proffesional races. The GT, mind you, not the GTR. How can you say a car with 1.00 G has bad handeling, compared to the F50 which has 1.07 G? If the GT could never beat an F50, then a according to you, a Mclaren F1 could never beat it either because it has worse handeling than a GT.

    And Road and Track did not give any hard numbers, so they didn't record any acceleration; all they said was "probably." If they did test it, they didn't time it. And by the way, 0-60 time in mid-three seconds and 1/4 mile time of high 11s is still faster than the F50.

    And yes, Ferrari F50s do race. They have their own exclusive league, much like Lamborghini has it's own exclusive league (only Lamborghini's league only allows for GTRs; previously it was SV-Rs)

    Here are some websites for the Ferrari racing:

    http://www.ferrariownersclub.co.uk/events/review/

    http://www.classic-sportscar.co.uk/1999results.htm
     
  3. There is one car that could absolutely destroy the ferrari f50 and the coveted mclaren f1, and do it in completely stock form, it is called the TVR Cebera Speed 12, it has 800bhp, it is very areodynamic - 0.36ddrg cft, and weighs a mere 1000kg - or 2205lbs, lighter than all of the cars here. The performance figures are:
    0-60........3.0secs
    top speed...250mph
    handling gs.1.16
    what is the problem, no doubt that there will be a murcielago GTR version that will take this to the cleaners, but that is in the future, and then we will see the comparison, until then these are some of the performance estimates on the Murcielago GTR:
    BHP.........720
    0-60........3.0secs
    top speed...250-260mph(depends on whether it will get optional gear ratio)
    handling gs.1.20
    and the weight is supposed to be lightened to 1400kg, or 3087lbs
    lol<!-- Signature -->
     
  4. i aint talking about the race versions, i am talking about the road cars, u know the production version, the Mclaren was lightened, and had extensive engine work done, so in fact it was not detuned, but tuned, and it was an impressive win at that, still, i do believe that the Cebera Speed 12 would beat it!!!!!! lol<!-- Signature -->
     
  5. Well nismo you certainly know how to make a case. Yes, there are versions of the lister storm that are really good, and also versions of the viper GTS-R that can't be beat, but for every 1 GTS-R that wins a race, there are like 10 others that don't.

    Did I say that the GT always comes in first? No, but I did say it came out ahead of Viper GTS-Rs and Lister Storms. If there were as many versions of the Diablo GT in each race as there were Vipers, I guarantee they would win alot of races.

    Look at some results from the FIA GT at Nurburgring, Germany, Sept. 8:

    There were eight Viper GTS-Rs, two Lister Storms,and only one Lamborghini Diablo GT. The Diablo GT beat three of the eight Viper GTS-Rs, and beat one of the 2 Lister Storms. So yes, it can beat those cars. Had there been, oh, eight Lamborghini Diablo GTs, it would have beaten much more of them.


     
  6. Uh, those aren't race results. That was from the second qualifying session (9/8/01). Results below (9/9/01). The Viper has won 3 FIA GT titles in a row. This year's was the toughest, as Chrysler pulled much support to focus on the 24 Hours of Le Mans LMP cars instead. In the Viper's heyday ('99), it was nearly unbeatable:

    "24 Hours of Le Mans
    GTS Class 1st place (Beretta/Wendlinger/Dominique Dupuy)
    Also: Viper also placed first in GTS in 1998.


    American Le Mans Series
    Mosport (Canada) 1st place (Olivier Beretta/David Donohue)
    Sears Point (Calif.) 1st place (Beretta/Donohue)
    Portland (Ore.) 1st place (Beretta/Donohue)
    Petit Le Mans (Road Atlanta) 1st place (Beretta/Karl Wendlinger)
    Laguna Seca (Calif.) 1st place (Beretta /Wendlinger)
    Las Vegas 1st place (Wendlinger/Tommy Archer)
    GTS Team Championship 1st place (Dodge Viper Team ORECA)
    Drivers Championship 1st place (Beretta)

    FIA GT Series
    Monza (Italy) 1st place (Beretta/Wendlinger)*
    Silverstone (England) 1st place (Beretta /Wendlinger)
    Hockenheim (Germany) 1st place (Jean-Philippe Belloc/Dominique Dupuy)*
    Hungaroring (Hungary) 1st place (Belloc/Dupuy)
    Zolder (Belgium) 1st place (Beretta/Wendlinger)
    Oschersleben (Germany) 1st place (Beretta/Wendlinger)
    Donington Park (England) 1st place (Beretta/Wendlinger)
    Homestead (Fla.) 1st place (Paul Belmondo/Emmanuel Clerico)**
    Watkins Glen (NY) 1st place (Belloc/Donohue)
    Zhuhai (China) 1st place (Beretta/Wendlinger)
    Team Championship 1st place (Chrysler Viper Team ORECA
    Drivers Championship 1st place (Beretta and Wendlinger - tie)"

    The remarks about the Murcielago posting a lap time a full minute below the GT at Nurburgring cannot be accurate. That kind of improvement is impossible. Witness that the 996 Turbo is only 16 seconds faster than the 993 Turbo with 430 hp. And the ABS-equipped GT is only 4 seconds faster than the standard SV, which is heavier, has less power, and lacks ABS control (later SV's had ABS, but none yet tested at Nurburgring). A full minute off the GT's time? Very unlikely.

    Now, the McLaren F1 also lacks ABS and R&T stats reflect its mediocre (for a top-level supercar) braking performance. This is where something like a GT and in particular the 911 GT2 may close in on its pace. The GT2 in particular, as its rearward weight bias offers supreme acceleration out of the turns as well as braking (ABS-controlled and aided by fade-free and light ceramic brakes). Indeed, at a track like Nurburgring where it has been fine-tuned, it is hard to beat, stock vs stock. Is this enough to overcome the McLaren F1's awesome acceleration? Perhaps, as Nurburgring is about chassis setup and braking as it is about acceleration.

    Regarding R&T stats, they sometimes test at higher elevations than normal (like over 1000', in the case of the Viper and GT2 tests). And sometimes they test in hot conditions; witness the F1 constantly overheating during their testing, and even late in the evening. The F1 has clocked an 11.1-sec quarter mile in Autocar (UK). 0-100 was 6.3, 0-130 in 10.4, 0-150 in 12.8 and 0-200 in 28.0 seconds. Absolutely phenomenal, and it can be found in "Driving Ambition".

    1.2g? Not on a 200-ft skidpad. In a banked corner? Most likely. Consider that a 911 GT1 RACE car on full racing slicks "only" managed 1.07g on a skidpad.
     
  7. #57 Christianmc, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    I agree.
    However, I never questioned that Viper GTS-Rs are one of the most competetive cars out there. But there is such a thing as Diablo GT's beating GTS-Rs and Lister Storms (though maybe not all of them). Here is the link to the race that I was talking about:

    http://www.speedvision.com/pub/articles/racing/06road/010908a.html

    And again, If Lamborghini put as many DIablo GTs or GTRs in the races as there are Vipers, you know they would win alot of races; Lamborghini just doesn't seem to be very interested in these competitions, though.

    Also Road and Track consistently puts out slower acceleration times than companies like Car and Driver and Motor trend; I think it had to do with the timing of the clutch. I think road and Track's way of doing it is more widely accepted, though.

    Yes, the Murcielago having a lap time of 1 whole minute faster than the Diablo GT does seem a little unbelievable; I'll have to check into that. I still expect it (AWD or not) to beat the GT, though.
     
  8. Oh yeah, and you were wondering what the lap time of a newer Diablo SV was for the nurburgring (520 hp= MAY '99 SV): 8 min. 9 seconds= 153 km/h. If the Murcielago had a lap time of around the mid sevens, that would not be TOO hard to believe, but that wouldn't be 1 whole mintue faster than a GT.
     
  9. ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS STUNNING AB SO LUTE LY STUNNING..... STUNNING <!-- Signature -->
     
  10. i want everyone who compares bloody everything with the mclaren to die - stupid naive people who think that its the be all and end all of supercars- people who are wrong!!!!!!!
     
  11. i like what your saying christianmc, but remember, the mclaren is not road legal, and the diablo gt was built for the road (it is the fastest road legal car in the road). Plus the Diablo is a large amount cheaper. There have also been tons o' other tuned up diablos like the koenig which has extremely fast acceleration (i think 0-60 miles in 3.2 seconds)
     
  12. hey davut, your comparing the F50 (racing car) to a daiblo gt (raod car). The 1995 F50 isnt that fast 0-60 in 3.7 secs, way slower then some diablos, and only 325kph. Even the F50 GT with a top speed of 375 kph is slower then the Lamborghini Coatl (or Eros as known by some) which has a top speed of about 390 kph and a .1 second faster acceleration then the F50 GT (a racing car)
     
  13. Hey fool, The looks and design and all that stuff you mention about the mclaren F1 LM is all crap. The looks do nothing and where im from, the mclaren isnt even road legal. You shouldnt compare the F1 LM to the GT, they are not in the same league. The proper comparison is the F1 LM and the Diablo GTR. There are even faster diablos then the GTR, though not quite as new: The coatl (or Eros) has a top spedd of almost 390 kph!!!!!!

    Beat That!!
     

  14. This goes out to everone who LOVES MCLAREN F1. I just wanted to prove that the mclaren f1 has incredible handling if not the best, it has good handling and great breaking for its power.How else can it win the lemans so many times in a row and beat the porsche gt1's which have really good handling.I don't think a any production car can beat it in a race or oval track.And its design gives it amazing stability at high speeds. Its the first car with the inovative design of the centered mass technique (not real name), meaning all main masses in the center of the car to improve handling and center of gravity.ITS STYLING BY PETER STEVENS AN DESIGN BY GORDON MURRY GIVE IT SPECTACULAR SPEED,ACELLERATION AND HANDLING.NOW DONT GET ME WRONG THE F50, JAG XJ220, ALL DIABLOS AND THE FORD GT90(ford only in styling) ARE MY FAVORITE CARS AFTER F1, THEY ARE AMAZING, but there is a fine line between, better and BEST. And for the guy who that the corvette was all that that car was souped up, IMAGINE WHAT A F1 CAN DO IF IT WAS SOUPED UP, THAT VETTE CAN'T EVEN LICK THE F1 TREAD MARKS.


    TOP THAT !!!!!!!!
     
  15. In my opinion the mclaren is good but can be beaten by cars like bugattin eb110 with not 1 not 2 not 3 but 4 turbochargers!!Also good cars like the Jaguar XJ220 and Diablo GT.
     
  16. A puntualization ´bout McLaren: I´ve seen McLaren at 391 kph. Wanna see it? I think it´s at Kazaa ready to download.
     
  17. Not when it doesn't even compete and the F1 has a string of trophies to back up its claim of being the Best Super Car on the Planet. All the GT has is a loudmouth like you here who merely spouts opinions without ANY facts (or racing wins to date) and doesn't even own the damn car. You are.....amusing.
     
  18. Lamborghini has never been too interested in races. In the '60s they had the most incredible engine for the Miura Jota that would have destroyed any other car in it's time, and even compete with a lot of supercars today. Still, Mr. Lamborghini did not want to race. so it's not because they don't have the ability. Even now, Lamborghini hasn't showed much interest. There is nothing wrong with that, and it says nothing as to whether a car is better or not.

    Besides, the cars that won Mclaren its trophies are the GTR and LM versions. To the person who said Mclarens have the best (or good) handeling, again, you are reffering to the GTR and LM versions, which have significantly improved hendeling. I'm talking about the stock Lamborghini Diablo GT and a stock Mclaren F1. It's a fair comparison, if you take into account other things as well as strait line performance.

     
  19. You say it would have destroyed every other car at the time. Well, it didn't. Its amusing to see Lambo fan who are too poor to even own the car talk about how great the car is (which they are) and how dominating it is. But, Lambo have NEVER proven itself against other cars out there. And, until such time as the cars start consistantly start defeating other marques, all you have is a lot of talk!
     
  20. It didn't because it never raced. The man who designed the engine intended it to be in races, but Mr. Lamborghini said no. It never got the chance to race, and the project was abandoned. But it really was a spectacular engine for that time. You apperantly no nothing of this, so before you accuse other people, you should do your homework. No, I'm not going to own that car because it was never for sale.

    I'm talking about stock cars here. If your going to talk about proffesional races, everybody knows those are tuned cars. Winning races has a lot to do with the amount of time a company is willing to invest in their cars and races, not always necessarily what car is better. That's why stock cars are the ones you have to compare. You are never going to own a Mclaren F1 GTR or Diablo GTR!
     
  21. Um, "stock" cars ARE raced in several series around the world. And until such time a car proves itself against its contemporaries, it cannot be called the greatest nor can it be said that it can "destroy the competition." Its an old saying but a true one - "Either put up or shut up."
     
  22. there is only one choise, Mclaren F1.... it`s much quicer and much nicer design..... In other words a Diablo GT killer!!!!!!!!
     
  23. i forget something
    i always was under the impression that f1's are pretty much souped up to the max anyways
     
  24. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from thewratih</i>
    <b>Um, "stock" cars ARE raced in several series around the world. And until such time a car proves itself against its contemporaries, it cannot be called the greatest nor can it be said that it can "destroy the competition." Its an old saying but a true one - "Either put up or shut up."</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    The Muira Jota engine was a spectacular engine for that time. If you still disagree with that statement then it is not worth continuing to talk to you.

    No one said the Diablo GT is the greatest car in the world, and no one said the stock Diablo GT would destroy a stock Mclaren F1. But it is a fair comparison. The DIablo GT has better handeling and brakes; speed isn't the only thing (for which the Diablo has plenty).
     
  25. Ehi Cris,
    what do you say? GT Vs F1? The weight of GT, with fuel and driver, is 1720kg, F1 app. 1300 kg!!
    0-100 mph: GT 8.0s (with short gearbox...), F1 6.3S!!
    0-1000m: GT 21.1s, F1 19.6s (286kmh)!!
    0-200mph: GT ?, F1.... 28S!!!!!!!!!!
    Lamborghini is a very very very good car, but is too fat!!
    look at Murcielago's forum: 1840kg with fuel!!!

    Mafalda
     

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