Re: DOMESTIC VS IMPORTS

Discussion in '2002 Mazda RX-7 Spirit R' started by Tuscani, Aug 9, 2002.

  1. You guys talk about forced induction like it is a bad thing,I'd much rather a lightweight twin turbo RX-7 than say a Viper.You could take the money you have left and enlarge the turbos and intercooler,and kill a Viper(and it's big engine).Don't get me wrong,I love the Viper, it is the true epitemy of a AMERICAN SPORTSCAR,and it has the cubes to prove it.The RX-7(and Skyline)are the epitemy of the JAPANESE SPORTSCAR.Are you guys starting to get it now?Can Dodge build a more efficient Viper? Hell Yeah, but it would'nt be the same, it would'nt reflect the musclecar past, that people...erhh,Americans (some of us)want,it has lots of power,torque,and of course cubic inches.And Mazda,Nissan,Toyota,and Honda, build they're cars towards what the people in there home market want.(relatively)small,agile,and powerfull cars,that are also very efficient,using all of there liters to the max,with the aid of (in some cases) forced induction.Domestics&Imports make power,just in different ways ,fast is fast no matter if your in a Skyline or a Vette.and thats just how it is .

    P.S:v0locity was talking about the GTR35 which does have a 4.0 liter twin turbo V8 producing 450h.p.
     
  2. HP/L is just one way a car can be fun fun adding cubic inches makes it fun too... has nothing to do with anything
     
  3. #3 bigrob, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Not really, there is so much hot air in that post it is disgusting. The viper and NSX are both very compitant handlers, in fact the viper was built from ground up to be a handler, as noted by the fully independant suspension and the fact that not many vipers are seen at the drag strip, sorry to burst your bubble. The vipe and the NSX both have very high handling stats for example....

    Motor trend tested their viper at 1.01 G on the skid pad and 72 mph through the slalom in the may of 1998 on a "regular" GTS viper.

    Motor trend tested the NSX as 0.94 on the skid and at 69.5 through the slalom in the May 97 issue.

    You can say that those tests dont mean shit, and someone will, but those numbers are what we have to compare with. You can compare it yourself at www.autosite.com the numbers are there in black and white.

    As for the the RX7, yes i am very impressedby it. It is an incredibly engineered car and it is a shame that it had to leave the states. The rotary motor is a marvel of modern technology, now if they could just keep those seals from breaking....

    The implications and the statements that have been made saying that a car is not good because it was engineered in a different style (aka more cubes) are asanine. The RX and the Supra and the NSX and etc... were designed to do what they do as were the vettes and vipers, they have just been designed in different styles. One style is no better than the other except in ones opinion.

    My opinion is obvious, thanks to the flashing Camaro name next to my posts. I have already made comments as to how retared it is to say that bigger tires alone make handling numbers, but very quickly let me reiterate, TORQUE, torque is what is needed to push those huge tires around in circles makeing the cars go forward. I sincerely doubt that the RX or any other car without similar toque could push those tires that are on the viper and still come up with any acceleration at all, it wont happen.

    Next, i dont believe you when you say that the supra makes 1 G on the skid stock, but i have no way to confirm it, all i know is that supras in general are not japans best example of a handling car, of a drag car yes. Supras can be made into hellacious dragsters.

    So in conclusion, that above post was not well said, it was biased, ignorant, and unsupported.

    P.S. Hp/L still doesnt matter unless you are entering your car into a displacement limited racing enviornment. if Hp/L wa sthe end all and be all of performance than you should go out and put a bunch of model airplane motors in your car. Due to the fact that they are the most "efficient" motors on the market producing close to 1100 hp/L.
     
  4. Hey sparetire.....i said that ur paying for the REALIABILITY as well as the performance of the car u silly..<!-- Signature -->
     
  5. GTR IS GOD.<!-- Signature -->
     
  6. As of right now American auto manufactures aren't making a whole lot of production performance cars, but so ar the Europeans and Japanese. Sure America has the Viper GTR, Corvette Z06 , and Mustang GT. And The Europeans Japanese have cars like the M3, Audi TT , Porsche 911 GT2, Ferrari 550 Maranello, Skyline GTR, NSX etc. But as of right know the imports cover a larger market. American auto manufactures are either catching up to or copying the import cars. NOT that one is better than the other, i like the old-school V8's , but i also like the sound of finely tuned and manufactured imports.
     
  7. Well i hate to see the word copying... but perhaps the american manufacturers borrow technology from the japanese and the heritage and testing/retesting and exactness of european styling but vise versa is true too i mean the automobile started in america so maybe they have the right to borrow from where ever... don't get me wrong im not american so i have no reason to back them but i will give props where props are due.
     
  8. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from 250GTO</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from v0locity</i>
    <b>so yea for you domestic people out there that like to argue about imports vs domestic. well i have a alot of reasons why domestic isnt as good as imports. First off hp/l does matter why it shows how efficient a car is. lets compare a next generation skyline to a Viper. Viper makes 50 some hp/l with a 450 hp V10 8.0 liter made by lamborgini and built by mitsubitshi and designed by dodge. the skyline V8 4.0 liter making 450 hp. ironic huh a engine half the displacement can make as much power... Second the reason why domestic cars have such poor hp/l is cuz they are still using the same old technology they are using 30 years back how sad huh. For that they gotta make such a huge engine to produce such poor numbers. And cuz of big engines making the car heavy, that means taking away the handling of hte car. To make up for in domestic companys have to put such big wheels on it. Third a viper runs what? 12.5 1/4 mile with a huge engine and huge displacement with 450 hp. a 2003 NSX Type R runs 12.4 with a V6 3.2 liter making about 290hp. And the NSX can out handle the viper by... alot. and the Rx7 is one of the best handling cars in this world. Cuz of the light engine and light car. and yet that car can still run 13.8 down the 1/4 mile huh isnt that nice a 2 rotor car can do so much. and the Supra it pulls a 1g skidpad with stock wheels can a domestic do that? and plus if the domestic can compare there wheels to the supra now who's bigger? lol i know there is gonna be alot of bullshit post on this one but oh wells </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->well said!</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Well said?
    Its a bunch of stereotypical trash saying all american cars suck all imports rule, and the americans are the ones bashing everyone else. It BS, read on of my posts. I refuted it, succesfully, point by point. Then I answered some questions from VOlocity about what I said. Read the damn forum! And it was a nice conversation, not some damn mudslinging match.

    What the hell?! I come back here and half you people are just bitching and moaning again! Around page 4, the questions had basicly been answered and this (beleive it or not if your too damn lazy to read the forum...those of you who I'm talking about know who you are) Was a constructive forum! Lay off. The stereotypes are wrong, and if you beleive them, then its because you want to, subjectivly, not objectivly. The fact is that there are great domestics and great imports. Camaro-300+ RW hp stock, for way under 30K, with decent handling. RX-7 about 30K, one of the best balanced cars in production, killer looks, and unique too boot. The examples about. Read my previous posts, I'm tired of explaining to people why movies like the F and F are complete bs and why the haters are fools. If you think about it, its all obvious.

    P.S. Sorry about the GT2 milage, Iwas misinformed. But it is not daily driver. Thats the 911 turbo. The GT2 is purpose built performance.<!-- Signature -->
     
  9. #9 MR DRIFT, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    IMPORTS ARE HI-TECH, ADVANCED, RELIABLE CARS. WHILE YOUR BIG, OLD, POSH ROD 1960'S ENGINES DON'T COMPARE.
    GT-RS CAN PUSH OUT MORE THAT 900KW AT THE WHEELS! WHERE NOT TALKING FLYWHEEL HERE!
    IMPORTS CAN GET ALOT OF POWER OUT OF SMALLER ENGINES, WE DON'T JUST ADD CYLINDERS TO ADD POWER, WE PERFECT EVERY PART TO ADD POWER.
    THOSE FWD DRAG CARS GET 850HP+ OUT OF 1.8-2.2L HONDA ENGINES. YOU NEED 6.0L+ V19+ TO GET THAT MUCH POWER!
    HAVE YOU SEEN THE TOP SECRET SUPRA THAT HAS A 4-CYLINDER AND GOES FROM 0-300KM/H IN 24 SECONDS! THE JUN SUPRA THAT GOES 401KM/H! OR THE BLITZ 300ZX THAT GOES 418KM/H!
    ROTORS HAVE ALOT OF POTENTIAL TOO, THE OLDER 12A's can make RX-2's do 9's
    http://www.pacperformance.com.au/pac_cust_cars.htm have a look at what those 13bs put out!
    if you want pay alot of money for a slow car with more cylinders then hp, drinks more then 100 people at a house with free beer and not even weight watchers can help go ahead and by a domestic
    BUT IF YOU WANT MOTORING EXCELENCE, TECNOLOGY AT YOUR FINGER TIPS, SPEED AND POWER BUY A IMPORT!<!-- Signature -->
     
  10. All i got to say is the McLaren F1 LM would eat these all alive. She has a beautiful midmounted BMW V-12 which gets a bangin 110.16 bhp per liter and pumps out 668 bhp. She has a top speed of 225 mph and rockets from 0-60 in 2.9 seconds and 0-100 in 6.7 seconds. Shes the fastest street legal PRODUCTION car in the world and the fastest accelerator with 0-100-0 in 11.5 seconds. At 90 mph you could drive the McLaren upsidedown because the downforce is so high and it has fans under the car that help suck it to the ground even more allowing even higher speeds in the turns making it one of the best handling cars. Plus the mid engine mount allows for better stabilty. Her sister the GTR won the Le Mans her first time out. This is the best street legal car hand down.
     
  11. I heard McLaren was American owned. Is that true?
     
  12. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from sparetire</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Ferrari4ever123</i>
    <b>You know in America everything is HP and 1/4 mile...

    When you go upto someone with a nice car what do you say?
    "how much HP are you making out of that engine?" think about it noone cares about anything else.

    but ever form of motor racing in the world (except BS nascar) includes braking and cornering....

    I think that a comparison should be taken on a road course...

    if a 1977 POS Ford , Dodge or whatever you think is so fast beats a import that you think is fair to compare it with....then I will give you all credit.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    You are a borderline racist. Your actually saying that all Americans are ignorant. A very smart man said that we criticize that which we hate the most in ourselfs. I'm American. Guess what my next car is? A AWD turbo inline 4. Whoops there goes that theory. More examples? ALMS. The fact that there are hundreds, no thousands of import shops in this courty, where it would be better, in terms od 1/4 mile performance, to go with huge big blocks all the time. How about the clubs for all types of car here. How about that damn movie Fast and the Furious? It was crap, but it was a huge exibition of exagerated car handling feats. Made to sell to American 16 year olds. How about a 2002 Chevy Corvette beating an NSX around Laguna Seca? Credit please.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    No shit. Besides, there is more to racing than a road course. How about Drag Racing. How many millions of people enjoy that for the raw power. Second. Nascar is not B.S. That is probably the hardest Racing in the world. They have road courses on the circuit as well as a hell of alot of short tracks. Tracks where thay are racing at sometimees as close as inches at 140 to 150 MPH. Going onto a corner, braking out on the accelerator. A slight wrong move, even as much as touching the apron a little bit will end your day as well as that of the people around you. Third of all, huge motors are not out of date. I know a guy who has a 61 Vette with a rebuilt 454, no turbo, Nitros, Supercharger or anything. That runs the quarter mile in 6 seconds. If you can show me an import that can beat that, Then you may start to get a case against american muscle.

    Also lets not forget the old Schelby 427 Cobra, wich kicked everones ass on the road course, well except the other American Beast, the ford GT40 MK1 MK2 etc.

    Now lets see what your RlCE burning piece of shit can do!!!<!-- Signature -->
     
  13. Jesus Christ. Everyone shut the hell up. Domestics and Imports are both awesome. If you were a true lover of automobiles you'd accept both. Do I like Corvettes? Hell yeah, do I like Supras? Hell yeah. Do I like Camaros? Well, not really, they are overrated. But I do like a healthy number of both. So why don't you guys just shut up about the old Domestics vs Import crap and just accept both. So what, a Twin Turbo Corvette can blow away an NXS T, and so what, an RX7 can completely tear apart an SVT Mustang on any sort of hairpin. So let's just say this: If you have lots of money and you are looking for a car to buy and drive and be fast and awesome, buy yourself a corvette. If you want a car that is relatively inexpensive but you want to hook it up and have a good variety of aspects, buy an Eclipse and prepare to spend money. God some people piss me off.
    -Chad
     
  14. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from FD3STTurbo21</i>
    <b>Jesus Christ. Everyone shut the hell up. Domestics and Imports are both awesome. If you were a true lover of automobiles you'd accept both. Do I like Corvettes? Hell yeah, do I like Supras? Hell yeah. Do I like Camaros? Well, not really, they are overrated. But I do like a healthy number of both. So why don't you guys just shut up about the old Domestics vs Import crap and just accept both. So what, a Twin Turbo Corvette can blow away an NXS T, and so what, an RX7 can completely tear apart an SVT Mustang on any sort of hairpin. So let's just say this: If you have lots of money and you are looking for a car to buy and drive and be fast and awesome, buy yourself a corvette. If you want a car that is relatively inexpensive but you want to hook it up and have a good variety of aspects, buy an Eclipse and prepare to spend money. God some people piss me off.
    -Chad</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Too true, they all have their assets and deficiencies. But the Corvette was a stock Z06 vs a NSX. I had to clear that up. My point would have been invalid otherwise. Thankyou.<!-- Signature -->
     
  15. There is never a winner in this comparison.<!-- Signature -->
     
  16. very well put FD3STTurbo21 i feel the same about all cars. wether they are imports or domestic cars if they are fast who cares where they come from. i bought an acura but, my favorite car is the viper. seems a little bit odd but i am also asian.
     
  17. the gt2 gets 22miles to the gallon sweet!
     
  18. DOMESTIC VS IMPORTS

    so yea for you domestic people out there that like to argue about imports vs domestic. well i have a alot of reasons why domestic isnt as good as imports. First off hp/l does matter why it shows how efficient a car is. lets compare a next generation skyline to a Viper. Viper makes 50 some hp/l with a 450 hp V10 8.0 liter made by lamborgini and built by mitsubitshi and designed by dodge. the skyline V8 4.0 liter making 450 hp. ironic huh a engine half the displacement can make as much power... Second the reason why domestic cars have such poor hp/l is cuz they are still using the same old technology they are using 30 years back how sad huh. For that they gotta make such a huge engine to produce such poor numbers. And cuz of big engines making the car heavy, that means taking away the handling of hte car. To make up for in domestic companys have to put such big wheels on it. Third a viper runs what? 12.5 1/4 mile with a huge engine and huge displacement with 450 hp. a 2003 NSX Type R runs 12.4 with a V6 3.2 liter making about 290hp. And the NSX can out handle the viper by... alot. and the Rx7 is one of the best handling cars in this world. Cuz of the light engine and light car. and yet that car can still run 13.8 down the 1/4 mile huh isnt that nice a 2 rotor car can do so much. and the Supra it pulls a 1g skidpad with stock wheels can a domestic do that? and plus if the domestic can compare there wheels to the supra now who's bigger? lol i know there is gonna be alot of bullshit post on this one but oh wells
     
  19. oh yea i forgot the mension that the Skyline is one of the greatest handling cars ever. Cuz they were banned from the rally tracks. Cuz they were kicking so much ass.
     
  20. You are cool man.!

    That is a good point....HP\L show efficiency....that is what my whole point was about....not about bashing

    hope ya'lls understand I am not bashing
     
  21. the fastest nsx on supercars.net is a comptech supercharged 1999, running a 13.1 quarter mile with 425 horspower, so this brings a few doubts about basically the same car running a 12.4 with 135 horsepower less.
     
  22. You do realize that the only way the Skyline gets that much horse power out of an inline 6 (which is the acual configuaration and not the V8 like you said) is that it uses forced induction. Thats right, that inline 6 gets all that horse power from its twin turbos. Now go back and look at what happens when you put twin turbos on a Viper. You get a car that does 0-60 in 2.7 seconds and the 1/4 mile in 9.98 seconds. See domestic cars don't usually use turbos like most Japanese cars do (Lamborginis, Ferrais, and BMWs don't either) so those big engines are there for a reason. I am not making fun of Japanese cars, or saying they are infirior. All I am saying is that they use a different technique to get their horse power and it shouldn't be confused with advanced enginering.
     
  23. One more thing, irony has nothing to do with it.
     
  24. course they make insane numbers........ then they blow up. turbocharged vipers are some of the most costly cars ever. N/A cars are not DESIGNED to take that much horsepower, however a skyline with proper mods can make 800 hp easy and there's more than just a handful of skylines pushing 1200hp..... lets see a viper do that. bhp/l counts... ESPECIALLY if you top it out
     
  25. lol ok the skyline i bet you all didnt know it but its actually a rear wheel drive and when it loses traction it changes to AWD didnt know that? yea i thought so. and the skylines design is made for top performance thats why nissan went for a Inline 6 and i bet you didnt know that it is proven that a inline6 engine is hte best engine to have for performance and it gives the skyline better handling.... american cars are not designed to fit turbos to make power cuz they are N/A cars. thats why you cant get much from the car when its has turbo in it same with lots of european cars. and for the inline 6 engines thats why the skyline and hte supra is known as one of the best handling cars in the world. and plus the NSX thing well thats an american fuc.ked up NSX japanese NSX are alot better the top models in japan are the Type S Zero and the Type R they both run 12's.
     

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