Re: Finally... An end to this overhyped machine

Discussion in '2002 Dodge Viper GTS Final Edition' started by Guibo, Aug 9, 2002.

  1. LiquidChild:
    You accused me of having duplicate accounts, going by the other screen name tvradict. Care to explain this?
     
  2. Whaaa!!!
     
  3. Man, I would love to own this. But even if I was allowed to drive, I couldn't afford it.<!-- Signature -->
     
  4. Finally... An end to this overhyped machine

    I'm not one who criticizes cars for no reason but over the last few years, I've had enough of certain cars. Enough of hearing about how great they are, yet all they do is fall short and don't meet all their expectations. Having driven a few Vipers, I've come to the conclusion that they're powerful, and are exceptionally cheap for what you get. You get your dollars worth compared to other cars right? Not necessarily. It's all arbitrary. Here in North America, all domestic cars are naturally cheaper than European and Japanese imports because the keyword is "import". Extra costs are involved in order to ship the cars overseas and so as a result, their prices go up. So when someone complains about how expensive a Mercedes is, think again. In Germany, everyone's driving them because they're a lot cheaper than a Ford or Chevrolet over there.

    Things I like about the Viper:

    Acceleration
    Horsepower
    Rear wheel drivetrain system
    Straight slalom handling

    Things I hate about the Viper (from experience):

    Uneven weight distribution from back to front
    All pressure applied to the back causing a slip effect at the front
    Oversteering
    Oversteering
    Oversteering

    This was just getting ridiculous, the Viper, a car with great handling ability, tends to oversteer a lot if you get too aggressive whereas other cars do not. Now a lot of people love to drive aggressively, trying to pull tight turns and drift. This car, will fail in those categories if you aren't some kind of professional.

    I've also always thought that one car that truly stands apart from the Viper, and beats in nearly all categories, is the Corvette.

    Corvettes are cheaper, nearly identical in power, speed, acceleration and also look great like the Viper. However, where the Corvette succeeds, is its' ability to handle better in the FR drivetrain.

    One more car that I think is better than the Viper (opinion of course), is the NSX. Although much more expensive in the States (arbitrary in location), its' ability to run much more smoothly, handle better and upgrade more easily makes it an overall better aqcuistion I believe. The NSX also comes with a mid-engine drivetrain (pure sports car), much more technologically advanced than the "older" front-engine, rear-wheel drivetrain standard in Vipers and Corvettes.

    Sorry for writing so much, but in the end, I just wanted to say that I'm glad they're stopping production on this car because really, if you stop and think, this car isn't great at all...

    Just another overhyped machine.
     
  5. Hey, aren't you the same dumbass who said in the Ferrari forum that the Viper couldn't out perform the Ferrari F355, which you said was the lowest class of a Ferrari? LOL! Sounds to me your just against Vipers in general, you've always been against Vipers. No one cares what you think. I believe you're just upset because the Viper, which costs 75,000, beats, in every aspect, your Ferrari's. Sorry pal, but just because its true doesn't mean you have to get all hot and bothered over Vipers. You may not see their greatness, but any real person with common sense does.<!-- Signature -->
     
  6. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from 550WOLVES</i>
    <b>Oversteering
    Oversteering
    Oversteering

    This was just getting ridiculous, the Viper, a car with great handling ability, tends to oversteer a lot if you get too aggressive whereas other cars do not.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Err...you don't think the 490 lb/ft of torque has anything to do with that do you?
    Is your brain an on/off switch? Is your right foot an on/off switch? I didn't think so. Use them properly and you shouldn't have any problems.
    Sounds to me like the Viper is the perfect example of Darwinism at full effect: it helps to get rid of all the idiot drivers off the road.
     
  7. I have been very lucky to have been able to drive many vipers in my life time. I argee with you on the fact that stock vipers tend to not handle as well as other cars in aggressive track racing but you must understand that you can easily fix this without spending much money. Also oversteering is something i have never had a problem with so i think it just maybe your lack of driving experince.
     
  8. arnt nsx's also built in the states? under acura nsx....as i am under current knowledge that all acura's are built in the states...its the quote "american honda". they of course have the honda nsx sold outside the states built outside the states but isnt the acura nsx built in the states?

    even then it doesnt cost that much to import...look at the civics they sell for 15k just as much as a focus or escort sells or would sell at. given that they are 1k-2k cheaper due to some import taxing. so that leaves us with two things. one import tax is a factor but not much.

    and two considering other imported cars and their costs that means the nsx should cost like 87k instead of 90k if not imported right? if its even imported.

    that still leaves the viper with over 17k breathing room of price tag, and in ever test the viper has always handled better out accelerated and did everything better even ride quality better than a nsx.<!-- Signature -->
     
  9. Well, actually NSX's are built in Japan.

    As far as I know, there has been only one head-to-head test where the NSX (a Zanardi Edition) produced better slalom and skidpad numbers than the Viper. This was in Motor Trend, and the results were very close.
    R&T tested a GTS-R (GT2 commemorative edition) against the Zanardi NSX, and the NSX was beaten. But overall, in terms of lap times, the NSX has been squashed 100% of the time by the Viper (be it GTS or GTS-R), in MT, R&T, C&D, by the Nurburgring and Hockenheim laptime tables, you name it.
     
  10. SVSI, no I'm not the same guy to whom you're referring to so don't call me an idiot.

    Second, NSX's are actually the product of Honda not Acura. It's "Honda NSX".
     
  11. #11 SvSi Viper, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
  12. Thank you for clearing that up, without the use of any swear words. There's still the oversteering problem.
     
  13. For the oversteering problem, was it an RT/10 you drove? I would think that it would be, because I'm not sure if the weight distribution is the same as the GTS, which is almost perfect weight distribution. Also the RT/10 has the worst chassis of the Vipers. Can't remember if it was to stiff or to soft.<!-- Signature -->
     
  14. The very early RT/10's (Gen I's w/400 hp) were known to be rather stiffly sprung, and suffered from bump-steer problems. The Gen II coupes and RT/10 were much more refined, in terms of creature comforts and in handling/ride qualities. Either car will bite you in the ass if you're not careful, but lots of high-powered high-torque cars are like that. You think an amateur driver could control that Jun Supra in those crazy drift videos? I think not. Most people would kill themselves.
     
  15. It was the GTS. Too much weight distribution sent to the back, literally causing the front to be lifted off the ground.
     
  16. That sounds like a condition of understeer. Power-on understeer, such as what afflicts many an old Porsche. The weight shifts to the rear, increasing the grip of the rear tires. The nose gets light, reducing grip of the front tires. Classic case of power-on understeer, NOT oversteer.

    I think you're lying out of your ass!
     
  17. Hey Guibo, he's telling the truth moron. Vipers have an FR drivetrain, how the #$%# can they understeer? All the weight is distributed to the back mostly, causing oversteer (too much spinning). The car may lose it on an aggressive turn, whereas FF and MR drivetrain cars wouldn't.

    Porsches are Rear engine,rear wheel, they do indeed understeer, not Vipers.
     
  18. Almost every car you can buy and publicly drive has a tendency to UNDERSTEER. BMW's do it, Corvettes do it, Porsches do it, and yes Vipers do it. It's only when you JUMP ON the freakin' gas, that's when you get the oversteer. Moron, LOL.
     
  19. But don't just take my word for it. Take C&D's.

    From their test of the Viper ACR in '98:
    "We took a quick spin in a preproduction ACR at Laguna Seca Raceway in California and found it to be even more comfortable on the track than the already capable standard model. The stiffer springs and shocks seemed perfectly tuned to the track's smooth surface, and the slight understeer present in the standard Viper was absent."

    WTF? Understeer?! But-. How could they-. Doh!!!

    Here's more, from their very early test of the '96 GTS:
    "For safety reasons, Michelin concurred with the Viper team that a bit more understeer was necessary in the coupe and designed the custom Pilot MXX3s accordingly. Indeed, in a constant-radius corner, where the GTS can generate 0.96 g of grip, it's understeer city. But tail-out antics are still just a quick prod of the throttle (or brakes) away, and the transitions are smooth and controllable."

    Understeer again. Smooth and controllable. (Unless your name happens to be 550WOLVES.)

    From their test of the ACR, Mustang Cobra R, and Z06:
    "The upgrades of the ACR package work harmoniously to improve the Viper's manners around a track. Through corners and down the straights it feels as planted as a giant saguaro, the tires biting hard during turn-in and faithfully tracking the line unless you injudiciously prod the cast aluminum V-10 for too much power. With just 7.5 pounds for each horsepower to haul around, the engine will handily rip the massive 335 rear tires loose at command. But Chrysler, probably anticipating the result of such situations, gave the Viper a pair of smooth, linear throttles."

    Also, take a look at MT's comparison article from '97. Doesn't look like problems of oversteer to me.


     
  20. Guibo, you can only understeer with those cars if you drive on purpose and that's not what you were arguing.

    Vipers tend to oversteer rather easily.
     
  21. I think you just don't know how to handle the car properly in whatever situation this was happening. Not trying to hate or anything just my opinion.
     
  22. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from 550WOLVES</i>
    <b>Guibo, you can only understeer with those cars if you drive on purpose and that's not what you were arguing.

    Vipers tend to oversteer rather easily.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Exactly, Vipers spin out far to easy.<!-- Signature -->
     
  23. 550WOLVES:
    Open your eyes. And find me a single review from a reputable source by people who know how to connect eye to foot who state that the Viper oversteers too easily.
    At its natural steady-state limit, it understeers. And only oversteers if you don't know what the hell you are doing. Which it seems that you don't. Clear enough?
    Anyway, if you want an absolutely safe understeering car, go get yourself a Lincoln Towncar or a FWD Integra. And leave the taming of the beast to people who don't have on/off switches for brains.
     
  24. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Guibo</i>
    <b>550WOLVES:
    Open your eyes. And find me a single review from a reputable source by people who know how to connect eye to foot who state that the Viper oversteers too easily.
    At its natural steady-state limit, it understeers. And only oversteers if you don't know what the hell you are doing. Which it seems that you don't. Clear enough?
    Anyway, if you want an absolutely safe understeering car, go get yourself a Lincoln Towncar or a FWD Integra. And leave the taming of the beast to people who don't have on/off switches for brains.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    How does TopGear sound? They said it oversteered far to easily, And that test was done by two BTTC (British Touring Car Championship) Drivers!<!-- Signature -->
     
  25. Well, I guess than there is more differences to the Euro Spec and U.S. Spec Vipers other than power. Thanks for pointing that out.<!-- Signature -->
     

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