Re: Finally... An end to this overhyped machine

Discussion in '2002 Dodge Viper GTS Final Edition' started by Guibo, Aug 9, 2002.

  1. #26 Guibo, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Top Gear? Yes, let's take a look at what they said.

    “It [the Viper] turns in sharply and the huge tyres grip very hard, but it you’re a bit too heavy with the right foot you can land yourself in a horrible mess. The engine has such huge amounts of toque that it can easily snap the tail sideways suddenly in mid-bend….”
    As if a Cerbera 4.5, McLaren F1, or F40 are incapable of snapping their tails out in mid-bend. Yeah, right!
    Notice they didn’t say “if you drive with your foot connected to your brain, and with the respect due any high-powered car, you can land yourself in a horrible mess.” They explicitly stated: “BUT IF YOU’RE A BIT TOO HEAVY WITH THE RIGHT FOOT”. Well, crap. That applies to at least 50% of the cars on this website. BFD.

    The article goes on to say:
    “A ‘slow in, slow out then nail it when you’re straight’ technique is the only way to avoid potentially painful mishaps.”
    Meaning, they didn’t dare take the car to its limits in the corners. C&D DID take the car to its limits in its Best Handling Cars Over $40K article, and found that once you learn to trust the car, go beyond that threshold at which you MIGHT THINK it will spin, it will reward you. Of course, if you’re slow in and slow out, how could you ever tell?

    So, that one Top Gear article doesn’t prove diddly squat, in the face of the evidence I’ve provided so far. Proof that other cars are susceptible to spinning as well?:
    http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=8239&f=5&h=0

    Even little Mazda Miatas, some of the finest handling affordable sports cars in the world, can spin:
    http://www.miataforum.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=014429

    And if you want to read about nearly uncontrollable oversteer, look below.
     
  2. Guibo how many times do you have to post that EVO review man?

    We've already shown the 4.5 Cerbera to be a brilliant handling car.<!-- Signature -->
     
  3. Hey, you can't say you didn't ask for it. I'll post it as many times as I damn well please, thank you.
     
  4. Well how about I just keep posting the TopGear test which says the Cerbera handles like a freakin RACE CAR!!, But I can't be bothered to try and convince all you yanks, we give you the proof, you throw it back at us, so bollocks to it.<!-- Signature -->
     
  5. WTF are you on about TopGear didn't take the Viper to its limits??????? If they had the thing all over the place sliding like cazy i'm pretty sure they went past its limits fool.<!-- Signature -->
     
  6. Ok listen up, I understand facts and figures are important to all of you "proof freaks". It's nothing until you've tried it for youself though. And I don't want to hear the whole "you just can't drive" crap because it's just an excuse for denial.

    I've driven the GTS 2000 and trust me, it is #$%#ed up. It takes way more patience and time to learn how to steer the piece. I have no intention of demoralizing the car for no reason but I have personal hands on experience in this case, which is quite better than magazine numbers.

    Don't forget people, that the guys testing out the cars are extreme pros, much better than your average Joe so when they give their recommendation, don't be sure it's gonna apply to you too. Try it out for yourself and maybe you'll change your mind or still appreciate it. That's up to you. But don't go on bragging about how this car's great and how it's such a great deal, beating out the competition. It's not great. It's extremely heavy and you can literally "feel" the strain.

    The fronts got virtually no weight, as a result (note to Guibo), the car OVERSTEERS not understeers. All the weight is distributed to the back. That's why it's got so much straight line power because it pushes rather than pulls allowing for maximum power to be produced. Since the front is almost airborne, the car, approaching an aggressive turn, will oversteer and wipe out of control, turning more than you'd like. THIS DOESN'T HAPPEN TO FRONT WHEEL-FRONT ENGINED CARS.

    Sadly, this is probably gonna be a wasted effort, not going through anyone's head. We'll see if anyone understands this and stops ranting and shouting "PROOF" "PROOF" "PROOF".

    There's the proof, first hand up, from your regular Joe.
     
  7. #32 Guibo, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Proof? Let's see the proof that you've actually driven a Viper. Don't have it? Didn't think so.
    All the weight shifts to the back? How much are we talking about here? 100%? 75%? 57.54%?

    Here's a little something for you. Throw up this question to the guys at the Viper owners' forum: "Do you guys think the Viper oversteers excessively? Because I test drove one [allegedly], and just could not control it." Be prepared for the howls of laughter. I DARE you, and look forward to the results. Also, post there using your same screen name here.

    Click under Forums. You'll have to register, but it's quick and simple. www.viperclub.org
     
  8. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from LiquidChild</i>
    <b>Well how about I just keep posting the TopGear test which says the Cerbera handles like a freakin RACE CAR!!</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Well, go right ahead. Nobody's stopping you, are they? Nor do I question your right to do so. You don't see me asking, "LiquidChild, how many times are you going to...show that test of a <i>preproduction</i> Cerbera?"

    And let's take a look at the comments:
    "The steering is almost too good, but give it [the Viper] <b>too much</b> throttle and it's very easy to spin. You can get it to understeer a bit if you're careful, though. In a way, it's quite safe, but I wouldn't want to drive one in the wet."
    Despite the fact that even with less weight over the drive wheels than the Ferrari F355, and fatter tires to increase chance of hydroplaning, it merely understeers with added throttle, and still posts a better wet skidpad result than the Ferrari, by .03g. And only .01g off the pace of the AWD Porsche!

    "This is a truck compared to the TVR. It feels like it's got 80 bhp less..."
    LOL, that's because it's got 42 bhp less, and an extra HALF TON to pull around. Duh! 80 hp less, that's a compliment. Yet, the Viper is quicker in every single gear during the passing tests, only let down by a balky gearshift.

    Yeah, that Top Gear test is a hoot.
    "The real problem, though, is that our little island is just too small for the larger-than-life Viper to cope with - our roads are simply not wide enough."
    Not wide enough for the TVR Tuscan either apparently. Or one of the Cerberas prepared for the Autocar test, which wrapped itself around a tree.
     
  9. #34 Guibo, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
  10. You missed a bit Guibo:

    Quote from Allan Menu (BTTC Driver) On the TG Test:

    "The engine is very respomsive, it feels lighter and more nimble than the others and the brakes are better. Handling-wise its the best one to have fun on the track. Its the closest to a RACING CAR; very tail happy, but FUN. If I had to buy one it'd be the TVR BY MILES."!!!


    Quote from Jason Plato(BTTC Driver) On th TG Test:

    "The Viper is a 'looking' car, not a 'going' car...."

    LOL, seems to me that the Viper has been proved to be a dog yet again.<!-- Signature -->
     
  11. By a preproduction Cerbera. BFD. "If I had to buy one...". LOL, that's because in the UK, the Viper is more expensive than the TVR. And as has already been pointed out, one gains very little by buying the UK-spec Viper with only 378 hp. Well, little except some RELIABILITY.
    In any case, nothing is said about the Viper being a totally uncontrollable oversteering monster.
     
  12. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Guibo</i>
    <b>LiquidChild:
    You accused me of having duplicate accounts, going by the other screen name tvradict. Care to explain this?</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Er no, and that was ages ok, so shut up your starting to piss me off again.<!-- Signature -->
     
  13. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Guibo</i>
    <b>By a preproduction Cerbera. BFD. "If I had to buy one...". LOL, that's because in the UK, the Viper is more expensive than the TVR. And as has already been pointed out, one gains very little by buying the UK-spec Viper with only 378 hp. Well, little except some RELIABILITY.
    In any case, nothing is said about the Viper being a totally uncontrollable oversteering monster. </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    I can see that your in love with the Fact that it was a preproduction Cerbera, so you want to tell me the difference between that car and the production Cerbera? Apart from the Wheels and the fact it was running a 4.2 setting on the suspension? Thats it nothing else.

    So whats the big deal?

    Dumb #$%#.<!-- Signature -->
     
  14. Doesn't matter. Show us a link to a test of a production Cerbera. Or scan the article.

    We've got pretty good indication that TVR's are "fettled with" for press testing anyway. LOL. Doesn't it strike you odd that even this preproduction Cerbera couldn't match the company's performance specs? And that another one offered up by TVR for Autocar was even further off the pace, being no faster than a standard 4.2 (slower, really, through the gears)?
     
  15. If it doesn't matter, shut up!<!-- Signature -->
     
  16. Who's going to make me? You? LMAO, telling someone to shut up on an OPEN internet message forum.

    Thanks for admitting you were wrong about that dual account BS. Moron.

    Hmmm...Let's add it all up...Ladder frame...assuming I said the Viper engine was lighter than the TVR engine when in fact I said no such thing...assuming I had dual accounts...

    I'm sure there's more.
     
  17. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Guibo</i>
    <b>Who's going to make me? You? LMAO, telling someone to shut up on an OPEN internet message forum.

    Thanks for admitting you were wrong about that dual account BS. Moron.

    Hmmm...Let's add it all up...Ladder frame...assuming I said the Viper engine was lighter than the TVR engine when in fact I said no such thing...assuming I had dual accounts...

    I'm sure there's more.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Oh you'd never tell anyone to shut it would you?? Want me to post the Link?

    Wanker.<!-- Signature -->
     
  18. You unbelievably ignorant bastards, how could you be so stupid?

    THE CAR... TENDS TO... OVERSTEER... BECAUSE OF... UNEQUAL... WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION... TO THE BACK WHEELS.

    Two words describe you people:

    ignorant and stubborn

    People like you Guibo, are in complete denial and continue to try to convince yourself that you're right. The car doesn't handle well aggressively get it? A good driver can take advantage of this car and set records (like in slalom). Anybody who's never taken the steering of a Viper before will be in for one tough time. It's nothing like you've ever experienced. It's extremely heavy, sensitive and loose.

    The car will tend to drift a lot at corners where you pull in at high speeds as well possibly resulting in you crashing into a post, civilians or the wall, ending you among others both physically and financially.
     
  19. Ah, you're just mad 'cause you're too sissy to handle it. Why don't you post this question to the Viper owners' forum? Certainly, not all of them are professional drivers, and I doubt even a large percentage of them at all have been involved in accidents due to oversteer.
    Jesus, the US has got to be the single most litigious country in the world. Where else can you spill hot coffee on your lap while driving and blame McDonald's? And win?! Where else can you attempt to break into a store through the roof, have the roof cave in, and then sue the shop owner because he failed to maintain a sturdy structure? If the oversteering problem was a public nuisance like you said, the Viper would've been written off for dead a long time ago.
    Corvair. Ring a bell?
     
  20. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from 550WOLVES</i>
    <b>You unbelievably ignorant bastards, how could you be so stupid?

    THE CAR... TENDS TO... OVERSTEER... BECAUSE OF... UNEQUAL... WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION... TO THE BACK WHEELS.

    Two words describe you people:

    ignorant and stubborn

    People like you Guibo, are in complete denial and continue to try to convince yourself that you're right. </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Oh, I'm sorry. Was that my my cue to bow down before your high holy supremeness and kiss your ass? Forgive me, master. I was wrong and you are right. As always.

    Muhahaha! Thanks for the lecture, pops.

     
  21. Pops? Man you make me sound old.
     
  22. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Guibo</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from 550WOLVES</i>
    <b>You unbelievably ignorant bastards, how could you be so stupid?

    THE CAR... TENDS TO... OVERSTEER... BECAUSE OF... UNEQUAL... WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION... TO THE BACK WHEELS.

    Two words describe you people:

    ignorant and stubborn

    People like you Guibo, are in complete denial and continue to try to convince yourself that you're right. </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Oh, I'm sorry. Was that my my cue to bow down before your high holy supremeness and kiss your ass? Forgive me, master. I was wrong and you are right. As always.

    Muhahaha! Thanks for the lecture, pops.

    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Guibo everyone thinks your a twat so just shut up and #$%# off,<!-- Signature -->
     
  23. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from LiquidChild</i>
    <b>Guibo everyone thinks your a twat so just shut up and #$%# off, </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Only the total idiots who know nothing (you) who gets made an ass out of by Guibo.<!-- Signature -->
     
  24. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from SvSi Viper</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from LiquidChild</i>
    <b>Guibo everyone thinks your a twat so just shut up and #$%# off, </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Only the total idiots who know nothing (you) who gets made an ass out of by Guibo.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    You get made to look an ass every feckin day!<!-- Signature -->
     
  25. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from LiquidChild</i>
    <b>Guibo everyone thinks your a twat so just shut up and #$%# off,</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Oh, the emotions! I love it! <IMG SRC="http://www.supercars.net/servlets/cMsg/html/emoticons/smile.gif">
    Like I've said before, I'm not here to hold hands and sing Kum Ba Ya.

    Nice work on that ABS issue in the F50 Koenig forum, BTW. *Tehehehe*

    So what have we got, now? Let's see...Ladder frame...assuming I said the Viper engine is lighter than the TVR engine...BMW horsepower ratings (coming out of nowhere in a VIPER forum, LOL)...ABS brakes...
    Care to add a few more?
     

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