Re: Ford's 5.6 litre is Faster than the Clubsport Do You Agree

Discussion in '2001 Ford Falcon 300' started by Tickford5400, Aug 9, 2002.

  1. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from pauljh74</i>
    <b>The information on the capacity was from Motor magazine. From there on I used straightforward mathematics to come to those conversions. The body and suspension in the car I referred to was a kit car, the engine was a Windsor 5.0 litre, tweaked by the prducers of the car, not a kit motor. Ford actually had a 192KW XR8 Sprint with the ED series back in '93. Only needed 5 litres to do it too. They got 220KW out of the 5.0 litre last year before deciding upon a stroked version. Winning the power game by jacking up the capacity by more than 15% over the competitor with a stroker engine is a flawed victory - it is the easier way of finding more power. Shows that Holden were struggling to get any more power from their 5.0 litre V8, while Ford were squeezing more out of 5 litres bit by bit. The 230KW 5.7L motor was the blueprinted version which cost buyers an extra $10,000 for 10KW - that was on top of the $70,000+ price tag for the GTS - money well spent there.......NOT! Whereas the 185KW Falcon XR8 was priced under $45000 at that time. Not really a fair comparison considering the 230KW HSV cost almost twice as much as the XR8 in '98.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->Ford had 192kw in 93? Holden had 200kw in their 5.0L in the VN SS Group A, or did you forget about that one? And believe me there is NO problem in extracting more power out of a Holden 5.0L. I read the dyno sheet of a VP V8 ute with an exhaust, cam and chip and cold air intake that ended up making 229hp at the wheels - more than 225kw GEN III and 5.0L Windsor...and I bet for less than $5000 all up...<!-- Signature -->
     
  2. Okay, just for the record a "347" stroker has been bored out .030 or .060 (cant remember whcih). The job is usually done aftermarket where the engine has already done lots of kms. But since the T3 5.0 block was brand new, it didn't need boring out. It still has the same stroke as the legendary 347 though. I think this is why Ford didn't use the term 347, because technically it's not 347 ci. So they went with "5.6L".

    But everyone refers to the job as a 347 stroker, as long as it has the 3.4 inch crank. So it's actual Displacement is not 347 cubic inches, but it still uses the 347 stroker kit which I was reffering too.



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  3. holdens r f%$#in awsime u dic head. and get your facts right #%$got, to translate horsepower to kw its, horsepower multiplyed by .75.
    if u look at the specs of a 300kw hsv it ays it has 400 horsepower.now use the formular and see wot u get dic head.


    holden rule fords suc, still stick it up ur ass u ford #%$gots
     
  4. 500nm is 365 lb/ft.
    The only way i know this is the gearbox has been replaced in the 5.6 coz the old gearbox wasnt up to the task. the new Tremec is rated at 500nm exactly. And its code name is T3650 coz of its torque rating (in lb/ft) i hope this helps you out.<IMG SRC="http://www.supercars.net/servlets/cMsg/html/emoticons/smile.gif"><!-- Signature -->
     
  5. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Holden Nut</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from pauljh74</i>
    <b> I read the dyno sheet of a VP V8 ute with an exhaust, cam and chip and cold air intake that ended up making 229hp at the wheels - more than 225kw GEN III and 5.0L Windsor...and I bet for less than $5000 all up...</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Why are now putting a modified car into the equation. I find this irrelevent because you can modify any engine and extract big numbers. Factory doesnt do that because they want their engines to remain reliable and safe. The stroked the the Windsors in the t-series range because they felt by extracting more power from 5 litres would make the engine to coarse and unreliable. This is exactly the same reason why HSV stroked their old 5 litre too.<!-- Signature -->
     
  6. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from muzzy_66</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Holden Nut</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from pauljh74</i>
    <b> I read the dyno sheet of a VP V8 ute with an exhaust, cam and chip and cold air intake that ended up making 229hp at the wheels - more than 225kw GEN III and 5.0L Windsor...and I bet for less than $5000 all up...</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Why are now putting a modified car into the equation. I find this irrelevent because you can modify any engine and extract big numbers. Factory doesnt do that because they want their engines to remain reliable and safe. The stroked the the Windsors in the t-series range because they felt by extracting more power from 5 litres would make the engine to coarse and unreliable. This is exactly the same reason why HSV stroked their old 5 litre too.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    I bring a modified car into the equation to try and show you Ford fans that 195kw and 230kw is not the performance ceiling of the Holden 5.0 and 5.7L as some of you seem to think...
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  7. I'm sure the Ford motors will be capable of more too. Another 50KW would be easy to squeeze out of either - but probably at the expense of bottom end grunt. Put a lumpier cam in it and free up the exhaust more - some better breathing heads and it will probably rev another 1000 RPM too. The factory set it up so you can expect a decent life from the engine, run it in all weather, and have a wide band of power while not using too much fuel.
     
  8. If Ford can keep the Handling advantage and Inject the New Engine Technology into Australasia (the 4.6 and 5.4 OHC V8's) They are going to have an unbeatable package.
     
  9. There is allready 350kw stroked windsor, the sony xplode concept by herrods. Now how much fo that 350kilowatt rated figure is true I don't know but the same could be argued with HSV's stroked LS6.<!-- Signature -->
     
  10. U BLIND MOTHER FUCKERS U NEED 2 SUPERCHARGER UR V8S 2 GET 300 KW
    BUT HOLDEN IS NATURAL ASPIRED ENGINE GIVE HOLDEN A SUPERCHARER
    AND SEE WHAT HAPPEDS *****
     
  11. ahh the 300 falcon is a SINGLE charger running 6psi. Holden also uses a MUCH bigger capacity. Dont talk about things your not sure about it makes people look ignorant
     
  12. hey muzzy_66...thats a real original name you have there. i envy you.
     
  13. It has seemed to me so far that HSV supporters tend to be Australias equivalent of the guys in America that say anything thats not domestic and huge in displacement is useless. Every fan i have seen here of HSV have argued about the Holden having more power and argued that the engine is better...i have yet to see any of them argue against the falcon being a superior performing car. I remember falcons having a strong disadvantage in a straight line, and still winning comparisons because mag testers were so impressed with the cars' chassis. HSV have also been known to have a poor gearbox..VERY as well as being proven to handle and corner inferior to the falcon. Now the HSV's are no longer even superior ina straight line, at least not until the top end. Ford have considered to have better interiors also, alsthough i admit their seats arent the greatest. From what i have heard from professional tests, the new T-series, with the optional koni package and brembo disks, is practically flawless in terms of performance. And the 5.6 allows for effortless performance anywhere in the rev range. Still, i must say HSV have great cars, and if not for the greatness in performance of both cars, we would not see the competition leading them to being where they are now. Its great to finally see the Auzzie car make it so far. I truly can't wait till the AV falcon and the new engines...a turbo XR6 anyone??

    P.s. S person earrlier in this forum bagged for for this concept because it was supercharged and the HSV was N/A. You may want to stop and think about the SUPERCHARGED commodore S and compare its engine performance to the XR6 before you beging to talk about that. You may realise the n/a XR6 VCT has actually 1kw greater then the SUPERCHARGED V6 in the S, and only 1nm less. That really is quite sad, no offense. Although, i can't diss the performance of the LS1. Only the performance the Gearbox and hear ratios Holden and HSV decided to use with it...not a great mix.
     
  14. The LS1 is a high-comp N/A engine. I wonder how long it would last with a supercharger on it. No factory falcon supercharged that I can think of, so the jokes on you actually as the commodore S uses a supercharger and still isnt as powerful as the N/A VCT donk.

    If you're wondering why Ford USA put superchargers on, well the 5.4L was made N/A in the Cobra R, but as it was not built with performance orignally in mind, it costs a bit to do. As well as the extra structural work required. Adding a supercharger is cheaper and manufacturers are in the business of making money, not building the worlds most powerful N/A engine. Go an say a mercedes-benz is shit because it too uses a supercharger.<!-- Signature -->
     
  15. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Tickford5400</i>
    <b>The LS1 is a high-comp N/A engine. I wonder how long it would last with a supercharger on it. No factory falcon supercharged that I can think of, so the jokes on you actually as the commodore S uses a supercharger and still isnt as powerful as the N/A VCT donk.

    If you're wondering why Ford USA put superchargers on, well the 5.4L was made N/A in the Cobra R, but as it was not built with performance orignally in mind, it costs a bit to do. As well as the extra structural work required. Adding a supercharger is cheaper and manufacturers are in the business of making money, not building the worlds most powerful N/A engine. Go an say a mercedes-benz is shit because it too uses a supercharger.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->A blown LS1 would last ages provided you lowered the compression ratio a bit - you would do that to any car you were supercharging with a high comp ratio.

    The Eaton Supercharger in the Commodore S isnt designed for high power outputs incase you didnt know, its made to provide high torque at low rpm's...read about it on the CAPA website.<!-- Signature -->
     
  16. you's have finally produced some good cars, actually the 220kw wasnt bad either. the 250kw certainly beats HSV's 255kw, no arguement there, the figures do the talking. it handles a bit better too, but its certainly not far superior! there are some similarites between the te50 and the new V8 killer ralliart magna. it may perfom slightly better than the direct opponent in holden (clubsport and s/c S or beautiful CV6) but it looks like shit (the magna looks like a freakin snow plough) and holden always offers something better, and provides that legendary status you get when buying a holden or HSV.
    holden's V8 engine is currently in a mild state, freeing up the exhaust on the 255 can produce another 20kw easy, and the magical 300 is not far from reach at all. HSV likes to increase power by stroking their engines (not always) but this method does have its critics, like you guys who believe that ford is better cos it gets 250kw from a 5.6 rather than 255 from a 5.7. and the dickhead who thought holden could only get 195kw out of the old 5.0 V8, well that engine is capable of so much more. it was ditched to keep with the times. does anybody know which engine has one the horsepower heros comp for atleast the past 5 years, the old holden cast iron V8, now the winner produces more than 1000hp at the wheels! how many ford street engines in australia can do that!
    but anyways, holden have kicked ass for years, over a decade now! at the first sign of one good car all the ford fans think they have hit the home run. and the holdens still lead the way in sales, look better and have more street cred. and muzzy i believe the interiors of the ford are not as classy, but thats just my opinion. the holden interior is like a cockpit, ergonomics are brilliant. and the 300kw still beats the lot of you, so until the best ford car can actually beat the best holden car, stop thinking you's have won. and the gen 3 is still capable of more, how much of it we will see will depend on ford response, like always. holdens (HSV's and corsa's especially) still lead the way, with HSV and corsa too! and the CSV veloce canes ford by even more, since the 330kw veloce beats all HSV's. so whatever ford and HSV come up with, CSV are better again! this is for power, speed, handling and brakes. you's dont have a leg to stand on.

    oh why isnt this topic in its own thread?? the only australian ford threads are the concept cars (totalling 2)! come over to the winning team to see how its done
     
  17. the place where ford could kick some ass is in the 6 cyclinder category. the turbo six will cane, like the VL turbo caned the XF or EA. the supercharged buick will struggle with anymore than 200kw cos of the strain the blower will put on the engine at low revs (hence no manual trans). bolt on centrifugal blowers have produced over 200kw at the wheels, but there is no chance holden will do that. so something will have to be done there, and holden are.competition is a good thing, holden are winning, just not by the huge margin they used to
     
  18. that Hp hero has over 1000hp yeah, but it's a TT 355 stroker. Gee I wonder how long that would last. Just think of the strain on the crankshaft. The torque would be huge, and so would the reciprocal mass. I'm not really interested in huge HP, I mean imagine trying to pout all that power to the ground, and in a UTE for christs sake!

    Still it's a good effort by the bloke who did it.<!-- Signature -->
     
  19. the twin turbo has traction control to help curb the excess wheel spin, and i wouldnt think it would last too long with that sort of power and strain, even though he has changed pretty much everything in the engine and drive line. but i it would last longer than some of the highly modified 4 cyclinders out there, running on high boost and NOS with a huge redline
     

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