Re: I hate this car.

Discussion in '2000 Hennessey Viper Venom 800TT' started by hennesseyms, Aug 9, 2002.

  1. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from hennesseyms</i>
    <b>You're just mad that this is da best!</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    You're right. I'm so mad that this car is the best. The TVR Cerbera Speed 12, any Koenig Ferrari, and the Ruf RTurbo have nothing on this. I'm so ashamed of myself to think that I knew anything. There is NO car on the planet that can compete with this Viper, and I can't believe I made this post. I hope you saw a healthy smattering of sarcasm there.

    The fact is that this is a tuner car, not a production car. You can, for $180,000, make many cars be this fast. A $180,000 Skyline would probably rip this car a new one. A $180,000 Corvette would CERTAINLY beat the crap out of this Viper. People tout this car as the king of performance, but it isn't. There is nothing surprising about this car's performance, and nothing impressive either. ANY 8L TT engine attached to ANY chassis will go this fast or faster. Having this car on a site like Supercars.net is as bad as having "My sister's girlfriend's cousin's turbo CRX with NOS" on it.<!-- Signature -->
     
  2. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Bigblockbrawler426Hemistage8</i>
    <b>I love this car because i am moparman first and because a part of my family in texas has hemi dodges and plymouths. And other point I like people correcting their opinions when they are wrong for example you Lancia Delta Integrale s4.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    What the hell are you saying? Do you speak English? That isn't just a turn of phrase; I actually want to know, because if you don't claim to speak English, I'll cut you some slack. Otherwise...

    If I understand you right (I can't be too sure) then I have to say that, no, I havn't changed my opinion. As I said in my last post, what I opened with was SARCASM, meaning I don't actually believe what I said.<!-- Signature -->
     
  3. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from LanciaDeltaIntegraleS4</i>
    <b>Why does it exist? There is nothing beautiful about a Viper, and the Twin Turbos are just shameful. No one can actually confirm the performance of this car, but it gives all the ignorant fans of American muscle (not to imply that all American muscle fans are ignorant) something to brag about. "So your Skyline has the best handling package in the world and one of the most tunable engines in history...the 8L Viper Venom 800TT goes 0-60 in 2.4 seconds!" It's total bullshit, and anyone who knows about racing knows it. There is nothing worse than a Viper on a racetrack (other than those big, useless Ovals, but those aren't for real racing, they're for leisurely turning your wheel the same direction every few minutes). This is as much a kid's toy car as the Diablo, only without an impressive design, level of luxury, drivetrain, or engine. So what's it got? It has exactly one trick: going forward for 15 seconds faster than most other cars. Dodge has wasted a huge amount of poorly-machined steel and overused rubber building this car, so I hope for their sake that the '03 is at least decent.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->I agree!**** the Viper!!!!!
     
  4. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from LanciaDeltaIntegraleS4 </i>
    <b>You're right. I'm so mad that this car is the best. The TVR Cerbera Speed 12, any Koenig Ferrari, and the Ruf RTurbo have nothing on this. I'm so ashamed of myself to think that I knew anything. There is NO car on the planet that can compete with this Viper, and I can't believe I made this post. I hope you saw a healthy smattering of sarcasm there.

    The fact is that this is a tuner car, not a production car. You can, for $180,000, make many cars be this fast. A $180,000 Skyline would probably rip this car a new one. A $180,000 Corvette would CERTAINLY beat the crap out of this Viper. People tout this car as the king of performance, but it isn't. There is nothing surprising about this car's performance, and nothing impressive either. ANY 8L TT engine attached to ANY chassis will go this fast or faster. Having this car on a site like Supercars.net is as bad as having "My sister's girlfriend's cousin's turbo CRX with NOS" on it.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    TVR Speed 12 has never been tested, so don't say it will beat the Viper, I'll only believe it when I see it (not likely)

    How does the Koenig Ferrari F50 beat this? Show me proof of it hitting 0-60 in 2.4, 0-100 in 5.5, or even how well it handles. If it handles better then 1.05g's on the skidpad, or 75.1 mph in the slalom, we'll talk.

    Ruf Turbo R...Are you crazy? 490 hp? Yea, it almost beats the Viper 800TT, almost. I also hope you saw the sarcasm in that statement.
    And even if you meant the Ruf 911 Turbo R, it still doesnt even come close with its 520 hp.

    You were right, the TVR Speed 12, Koenig Ferrari's, and the Ruf Turbo R do have nothing on this Viper, but I am not being sarcastic.

    As for saying a 180,000 would <i>probably</i> beat the Viper and a 180,000 Corvette beating the Viper...They don't have one now do they? Until they make one, they also have nothing on this Viper. You have just been proved wrong...

    And by the way, the Viper 800TT costs $155,000.

    <!-- Signature -->
     
  5. Just my 2 cents...
    Way too many people, in an effort to look like they are sophisticated or cool or whatever, use the old, this car is poorly engineered bit. Most people, on this site and in general, don't know much at all about engineering. I have 2 years of pretty intense schooling behind me in mechanical engineering, and while that does not make me an expert by any stretch, I know enough to know that many are talking out their asses. From an engineering standpoint, simplicity is beutiful. It reduces production costs across the board. It is relible as a rule. Often more durable. I'm not saying that Fords are more reliable than Hondas, but thats the general trend in engineering. Thats why I consider pure sophistication and use of state of the art technology to be an incomplete measure of a car. Engineering is all about results and for how much$ in most cases, particularly in the auto world. Vipers, with old school tech, and yes, proven performance, for 70K MSRP are pretty good engineering in my veiw. They might not have a bunch of pretty acroyms attached and neat little electronic systems, but if you think thats what engineering is all about, you are so far off it's funny. Some of you do have a clue, and you know who you are.

    The weight distrabution of this car is actually quite good, the large block is set pretty far back resulting in near a 50-50 distrabution.

    Enough with the rumors. You think Hennesy would make so much money if he was scamming people? MT and about 5000 other publications would be all over it. He is too high profile to be a con artist. Just because of one MT article, we do not know that all 800TT's are unreliable. I hate the I heard this"..." crap.

    Yeah, the 1000Hp Skyline will likely take this car, but if it has AWD I will be surprised. And I doubt very much it is the same price as this car. Even at 180K, this car is cheaper than most of the cars mentioned. F50? It damn well better kick the crap out of this thing. Same for the '12. Incidentaly, AWD is not the greatest thing ever to grace the track. Cool yes, but in most cars, inspired in large part to keep drivers from killing themselfs at the limit. FR cars are very underestimated in handling.

    Not trying to step on a lot of toes here, but some of the arguments are thin. Hennesymys arguments are like soap bubbles.<!-- Signature -->
     
  6. sparetire, even though you're disagreeing with me, I already respect you. You actually have opinions and knowledge to back them up, you don't seem as reactionary as most.

    guibo, you're right. Most modded Japanese cars do suck, but it's because people don't do it right. There are far, far too many people that go for the increased turbo boost before getting higher performance pistons or go for the 20" BBS rims before getting rid of the crappy rear suspension. When done right, however, a tuned Skyline or NSX can do quite nicely. The Viper on the track comment was mainly directed at non-professional drivers. Any car handles great so long as you know its limits, and nothing handles better than a low-slung, rubber-endowed, torque-happy machine. The problem with the Viper, so I hear and see, is that if you ever exceed its limits, you're screwed. There are no computer assist systems, no fancy AWD backup, and no ABS to help you correct your mistake. Experience helps, but even Michael Schumacher makes mistakes, so it would be nice to know you won't die if you cough while making a corner at 90% traction. Even though it has an excellent race history, its owners have an excellent history of crashing them because they don't know how to drive. "I hate this car" serves 2 purposes. First, it gets people in here; almost none of my posts get responses because I don't take an offensive stance, so I thought I'd try this. Second, it expresses my feeling, sort of. I hate the idea of the Viper, the single-mindedness of its approach to speed, but the car is actually fine because it gets results. Mostly, though, I hate it because its fans are mostly as simple as the "Supras Rule" fanatics. There is nothing worse than someone who thinks the Viper is the only performance car worth having because it has a big hood, big tires, and a big engine.

    In reality, I'm much more moderate than I make myself out to be. I like pontificating because it gives me a chance to argue and see who knows what, but thanks for the patronizing laugh anyway.<!-- Signature -->
     
  7. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Bigblockbrawler426Hemistage8</i>
    <b>For you Lancia Delta, what I said you in my last post is that my uncles who lives in Texas own a Hemi Charger r/t of 1969 and a Hemi GTX of 1969, my other uncle who lives in Switzerland in Lausanne has an Hemi Charger but from 1968. So this means that my family has Hemi cars and one of my cousins had bought a Viper. That is why, I said I am a Moparman. For my English, don't worry because I speak english since 14 years and don't make me this kind of remarks. </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    I'm sorry, I didn't intend to offend you. I was genuinely confused by your previous post, so I was curious whether English was your first language. My apologies.<!-- Signature -->
     
  8. #33 LanciaDeltaIntegraleS4, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from hennesseyms</i>
    <b>(Lancia) www.hennesseyms.com if you want proof, and
    www.motortrend.com/june01/ttviper/ttviper_f.html

    This car is the best accept the loss and move on sucka'</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    You guys are pretty trusting. I've already looked at the MT article and I've already posted on it, so go back an read what I said if you're curious.

    As for the Hennessey Motorsports site, let's see...the 650hp Viper is $165,450, so it's hard for me to imagine that the price of the top-of-the-line 800TT would be less than that. Also, note that under the "$55,000" price for the 800TT conversion, Hennessey says, "Note: Pricing and product content subject to change without notice." You would be comfortable sending your $90,000 car to a stranger in Texas along with a check for $55,000 and the hope that he'll have your car ready in about three months? What if he calls and says, "Well, we've got your car apart in my shop, but I'm going to need another twenty grand to finish the job. You can't get it because it's in pieces and I have already started work, so by stopping work now, you'd forefit the original $55K and your car would be the same, assuming I don't screw it up?" Sounds pretty fishy to me.

    Oh yeah! "Note: HMS also recommends that Venom 800 Twin Turbo owners consider upgrading their suspension, brake and aerodynamics systems. Contact HMS for scheduling details." That means that, in addition to the $55,000 for the ENGINE, you'd have to dish out some extra cash for the other stuff that ISN'T included in your upgrade.

    I'm not an idiot, and I know a lot about cars. Hennessey is notorious for being a jerk, and it's clear that he can't make reliable cars consistently (see my comments about the MT article). So, that's why I can't "accept my loss and move on." This car is as much a myth as the 7 second Supras you hear about. Maybe one of these exists, but it certainly isn't a PRODUCTION car, or even a semi-standard upgrade for a production car - like Saleen's cars are - so why should I care? You guys should think about this car before you start commenting on it, "suckaz!"<!-- Signature -->
     
  9. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Quiksilverviperlover</i>
    <b>you are possibly the dumdest retared on the planet just stutup you know noting on this car</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->O.K. - I want nothing to do with this huge argument... But man, if
    you can't even spell past the 3rd grade level, then you have NO RIGHT
    to call anyone stupid. <!-- Signature -->
     
  10. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from hennesseyms</i>
    <b>This is a great car that can't be beat, clean and clear</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    lol...thanks for proving my point about you.<!-- Signature -->
     
  11. I didn't mean to insult you. Well, actually in a way I did, but I have read your other posts and you do seem like you know your stuff. I apologize. I thought you were another person who knows nothing about cars and is just here to bash Vipers. But your not. And when I said "strap on a turbo", of course I didn't just mean that. It just made more sense to me that it would be a lot cheaper to install a turbo than to tune it the way the 650R was.

    You do know your stuff, and again I apologize. I should not have assumed you know nothing, because that clearly isn't the truth

    P.S. I know what an M3 is...
    A Ferrari right? J/K...

    <!-- Signature -->
     
  12. dodge viper, dodge viper they're relly fast u don't like em' they'll kick your cars ass.<!-- Signature -->
     
  13. sad, needs a twin turbo in a V10 to make it go fast, again, proves that the viper is underpowered<!-- Signature -->
     
  14. #39 deuginthesky, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from LanciaDeltaIntegraleS4</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from deuginthesky</i>
    <b>to LanciaDeltaIntegraleS4 :

    Do you know there's a Delta S4 with 650hp...to sell ?

    The car was made for Toivonen .As you know , Toivonen killed himself and never drove the new Delta S4.

    If you want more info , I can give you the link by email. </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    You mean the car was actually made for Toivonen to drive? That's a little creepy, but good S4s are hard to come by. I'd love to look at it, but they're not legal in the US...even getting race titles for them is difficult. I once saw an S4 in Gruppe B Race Spec (the one that does 0-60 in 2.4s on gravel. Hey, that's faster than this Viper!) for sale in Germany for the equivalent of $250,000. A day after the car was listed, it was sold. There aren't many people interested in Deltas (at least around here), but those who are know that they have to jump on a good opportunity. How much are they asking? Where is it?

    Congratulations on becoming a Guru.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Thanks , but the number of stars doesn't determine the quality of posts.

    Here's the Delta S4

    http://www.carclassic.com/html/LANCIA.HTM
     
  15. vipers are better cars than the delta s4, there no other way of putting it.<!-- Signature -->
     
  16. First, let me say that I do love this car. Second, let me say that I know my stuff too. Yes, the Viper may seem underpowered considering the size of it's engine, but that is for practical reasons. First off is to keep compression down, which means you won't have to buy race fuel (premium's a must though <IMG SRC="http://www.supercars.net/servlets/cMsg/html/emoticons/smile.gif"> ), and you get better gas mileage (slightly). Second is for price. I admit that they could get more out of it for not much more money, but I think that 450 is enough stock, don't you? Ok, maybe you don't...and yeah...more power's always good <IMG SRC="http://www.supercars.net/servlets/cMsg/html/emoticons/smile.gif"> Remember, the Viper was designed in 1988, when 450 horsepower was almost unheard of (ok, so it started with 400-415, but still...much more than anything else at the time). And since it won it's class at Lemans a few times and they sell every one they make, why mess with a good thing for the company? Third reason is for reliability...the more highly tuned an engine is the more chance there is of something breaking. Also, they left lotsa room for tuners like Hennessey didn't they? Ok, now onto the 800TT. While you can't argue with the performance of the car (even with the slicks argument...it's still freakin fast on street tires...besides, the test on slicks was right after it had rained. The track was pretty much dry, but they still had a lot of trouble with traction.) Ok, as for reliability of Hennessey cars, I haven't heard any reports of them failing any more than any other tuner car. The reason why the car could not be delivered when first asked for was because it was the first one they had made, and they hadn't worked out all the kinks (such as the turbo oiling problem)...surely you can understand that, right? (no offense, I prefer talking to intelligent people ;) ) Also, Hennessey does have certain guarantees on performance, and you don't just throw your car at him and say "have at it then send me the bill". You sign a work contract. He can't change the prices after you have agreed on a price. All advertisements say "prices subject to change without notice". The reason why he keeps changing the available parts and such is because he is constantly experimenting to make the faster. And as for the handling, while it may not be as refined as many cars, but the raw numbers are quite impressive. Ok, I'll stop now. Anyway, that's my take on it for now.<!-- Signature -->
     
  17. #42 hennesseyms, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from 1966pontiac</i>
    <b>even with the slicks argument...it's still freakin fast on street tires...the raw numbers are quite impressive, too. </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    The best sports car of the last few years www.hennesseyms.com <!-- Signature -->
     
  18. You can't just "strap on a turbo" and expect the results to be very impressive.

    actually its kind of what he did. he made this one version starpped on anything that he could think of and got this beast. the only problem is this car should be in the concept section. ever heard of anyone actually owning one. ever read any of the old threads b4 they got erased a few weeks back. hennessey is a commonly referred to as a liar. takes peoples money and runs. so if you wanna talk conceptss....the mustang boss goes from 0-60 in 1.9 seconds.

    come on, this car is a beast but it is pretty much hennessey just doing everything he can to get the hp up so dont compare it to other real cars like porsche or lambo. this car is def impressive dont get me wrong but it would be impressive for a week, then you have to replace the back tires and all the piston rings.<!-- Signature -->
     
  19. Thanks, SvSiViper1. I take back my insults too. Now it looks like I respect everyone who has posted here except, of course, hennesseyms, who continues to wow us with his repetitive one-liners.

    I agree with sean1152 that this car should be in the concepts section, even though it isn't really a concept.

    Does anyone know of any OHV engines that have variable valve timing? It seems like the only engines that still aren't overhead cam (single or double) are these big, brute-force, American muscle engines, and I don't see any kind of variable valve timing related to them. Also, if you look at their torque curves, they peak really low and drop off steeply after their peaks. If you look at the torque curve from the M5's V8 (Double VANOS is pretty damn sweet), it's flat as anything. It's the same with the 911T. Is it just too hard to do anything fancy wiht a camshaft that's sitting in the sump? Its OHV valvetrain layout is one of my big problems with the Viper engine. I'm a high-revving, chain-driven DOHC man, myself, so I don't see the appeal of the alternative.<!-- Signature -->
     
  20. too much hate....
     
  21. 1966Pontiac you said "And since it won it's class at Lemans a few times and they sell every one they make".

    Hennessey has never won at Le Mans.
    It was the Viper GTS-R of the French Team Oreca.
    The Viper GTS-R is totally different from a tuned Viper.
     
  22. The hennessey Venom could compete at LeMans level but hte company is too small to do that.<!-- Signature -->
     
  23. The Venom won't be allowed to compete at Le Mans.I've just read the 2002 ACO rules.

    In LM GTP , only 4.0L single turbo engines are allowed.

    In both LM GT and LM GTS , there must be one car produced by month , with a minimum of 25 cars produced to homologate the car .The car must also be presented in motor shows , selled in 2 major countries other 2 continents.
     
  24. OK, I don't know the requirements...If this car could be in Lemans it would do good that's all I'm saying...Are you sure about all of the requirements you just said, i.e. 4 Liter?<!-- Signature -->
     
  25. #50 deuginthesky, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    You don't know your stuff at all , I'm not insulting you , but you don't know what you're talking about.
    You have no clear evidence that this car could compete well .Do you know the weight of the Venom ? But anyway.
    You'll find all the evidence about what I'm saying there , on the Official Le Mans website.

    http://www.lemans.org/course/reglement_2002/index_gb.html
     

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