Re: I hate this car.

Discussion in '2000 Hennessey Viper Venom 800TT' started by hennesseyms, Aug 9, 2002.

  1. LanciaDeltaIntegraleS4:
    The RENNTech car that ran in the same year as the Ti finished pretty well. The one last year (based on the CLK), however, bowed out due to a blown automatic tranny very early in the series. The S2000, if I recall correctly, was stock. The One Lap is now conducted entirely on road courses, with one stage devoted to drag races.
     
  2. you complain about the lack of engineering in the viper...
    thats total crap. i have two degrees in engineering and i used to own one. this is a beautifully engineered car without comparison.
     
  3. to LanciaDeltaIntegraleS4 :

    Do you know there's a Delta S4 with 650hp...to sell ?

    The car was made for Toivonen .As you know , Toivonen killed himself and never drove the new Delta S4.

    If you want more info , I can give you the link by email.
     
  4. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from deuginthesky</i>
    <b>to LanciaDeltaIntegraleS4 :

    Do you know there's a Delta S4 with 650hp...to sell ?

    The car was made for Toivonen .As you know , Toivonen killed himself and never drove the new Delta S4.

    If you want more info , I can give you the link by email. </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    You mean the car was actually made for Toivonen to drive? That's a little creepy, but good S4s are hard to come by. I'd love to look at it, but they're not legal in the US...even getting race titles for them is difficult. I once saw an S4 in Gruppe B Race Spec (the one that does 0-60 in 2.4s on gravel. Hey, that's faster than this Viper!) for sale in Germany for the equivalent of $250,000. A day after the car was listed, it was sold. There aren't many people interested in Deltas (at least around here), but those who are know that they have to jump on a good opportunity. How much are they asking? Where is it?

    Congratulations on becoming a Guru.<!-- Signature -->
     
  5. You have to remember that the S4 was not only a race car, but a Group B race car. There were virtually no restrictions on the design of these cars, so they just kept getting faster and more powerful...that's why people started dying and the program got cancelled. They could boost the engine to insane pressures and not care because they'd just replace it the next time they raced the car. Also, the car was geared for acceleration. In rallying, you need to slow down a lot in the corners because traction is so low. In order to get good lap times, you need to accelerate well from about 20-80, and no one cares if your car can go 160mph (or, for that matter, 250!), because there aren't any straightaways where you could go that fast.<!-- Signature -->
     
  6. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from ilovevipers</i>
    <b>vipers are better cars than the delta s4, there no other way of putting it.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Whoa. Whoa. Um...wow. I can't believe you said that. Do you know anything about rallying? Here's how it goes: Audi Sport Quattro, Lancia Delta S4, Mitsubishi Lancer/Subaru Impreza. Those are the most important AWD cars of the last 20 years. The engine and drivetrain of the Delta was beautifully engineered for its purpose, and it was as brutally fast as it was elegant. It was successful on the race track and on the street, and it is still one of the most sought after cars on the market. You don't see Vipers appreciating in value, do you? Delta S4s and Integrales are durable, upgradeable, and versatile. They were designed 20 years ago and cost about a third the price of a Viper, so the Viper damn well better have some better qualities. I think you're missing the boat on this comparison.
    <!-- Signature -->
     
  7. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from rixochet</i>
    <b>Just look at the viper and you'll notice it's not setup for rally racing. Rally cars have a huge list of differences from a road car which I'm not going to get into, but you are basically comparing apples and oranges... </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    I never brought up the comparison, and I know that the Viper is no rally car. I was just astounded by the fact that he said that the Integrale was worse than the Viper. That kid has no sense of history or true greatness! It's like saying that the Porsche Speedster isn't as good as a 280Z.<!-- Signature -->
     
  8. It says that some guy named Ozzgoat or something posted a message here, but I can't see it. Does that mean he pulled it or is it the Supercars.net system being buggy again?<!-- Signature -->
     
  9. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from hennesseyms</i>
    <b>Venoms are still the best preformance for da dollar.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    You are the most annoying poster here. Why doesn't someone ban you?<!-- Signature -->
     
  10. WHAT DO YOU THINK, THAT YOUR COOL OR SOMETHING AND YOU SUPPOSEIDLY KNOW ABOUT CARS. I THINK WHA YOU SAY IS TOTAL BULL. JUST BECUASE YOU CAN'T AFFORD IT, YOU CRITISIZE IT? THAT IS WHAT REALLY IS SHAMEFUL! WHO CARES IF ITS FROM AMERICA, IT WILL STILL BEAT YOUR CRAPPY LITTLE CAR (IF YOU EVEN HAVE ONE). IT WILL ALSO BEAT ALL OF THOSE FANCY CARS SUCH AS THE LAMBORGHINI (WITH ALL RESPECT). WITH A TOP SPEED OF 235, IT IS VIRTUALLY UNBEATABLE. THE VIPER IS THE GREATEST CAR EVER CREATED!

    ~SHILP
     
  11. The least this car should do is put out 800 hp. The least this car should do is a 10 sec 1/4 mile. This is the ultimate tuned gas guzler, and I really don't think much of it.

    1/4 mile times aren't everything...
     
  12. the guy who started this is a #$%#in idiot
    he should be shot <!-- Signature -->
     
  13. This is a high tuned supercar and it can't be beat thus far so what now bia!<!-- Signature -->
     
  14. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from viper1887</i>
    <b>WHAT DO YOU THINK, THAT YOUR COOL OR SOMETHING AND YOU SUPPOSEIDLY KNOW ABOUT CARS. I THINK WHA YOU SAY IS TOTAL BULL. JUST BECUASE YOU CAN'T AFFORD IT, YOU CRITISIZE IT? THAT IS WHAT REALLY IS SHAMEFUL! WHO CARES IF ITS FROM AMERICA, IT WILL STILL BEAT YOUR CRAPPY LITTLE CAR (IF YOU EVEN HAVE ONE). IT WILL ALSO BEAT ALL OF THOSE FANCY CARS SUCH AS THE LAMBORGHINI (WITH ALL RESPECT). WITH A TOP SPEED OF 235, IT IS VIRTUALLY UNBEATABLE. THE VIPER IS THE GREATEST CAR EVER CREATED!

    ~SHILP</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    If the only reason that I critisize this car is that it's expensive, why are the McLaren F1, the Porsche 959, and the Ferrari F50 some of my favorite cars? Look in the forums for those cars, some of my posts must still be there.

    Have you ever seen a Twin Turbo Lamborghini? They're out there, and they will waste this car. Even with the 2L advantage, the Viper's engine just isn't as precise as the Italian's, so it can be RELIABLY tuned to higher performance. Not that Lamborghinis are known for being great daily drivers because of their reliability.

    235 isn't that impressive. There are cars with better gearing and more torque at higher RPM that can do 250+ on high speed tracks.

    Using all caps is very unattractive.<!-- Signature -->
     
  15. you talk bores me, Lancia, you word of mouth is only as good as your proof, and you got none so bye..bye!<!-- Signature -->
     
  16. The Lamborghini Diablo VTTT:

    "The story behind the creation of the Diablo VTTT's is quite interesting, they wanted to bore the standard 5.6-Liter out to a 7.4 Liter unit, but Automobili Lamborghini SpA didn't advice this move, it would be more feasible to use the 7.0 or even the 8.0 Liter marine engine from Lamborghini. After close calculation this engine would pump out 640 Bhp with stock compression, but by installing two turbo's and boosting the compression, an easy 1170 Bhp was possible on dyno-testing."

    Go to Koenig for lightweight body parts, and you can beat the Venom 800TT's 3400lbs. That's more power for less weight spread to more drive wheels, assuming you opt for the AWD. Gear it right and you can get better 0-60, gear it differently and get a higher top speed. Gear it unevenly like the Venom and you can get both, though the driving experience will be worsened (5th and 6th gears are practically useless in normal driving in the Viper; their only use being for taking the car from 150 to 230mph.) Sure, there are no official stats, but if you're going to argue the laws of physics then you're a fool. Acceleration equals Force divided by Mass. More force. Less Mass. More acceleration. No cheater street slicks needed.

    I'm not saying I'm a big Diablo fan, but with this package, you get a crazy image, high levels of luxury, and monster performance. You'd get that outrageous Diablo handling too (not exactly my cup of tea.) My point is that the 800TT isn't the fastest damn thing on the planet. Hennessey has convinced people of that somehow, and if you've never looked into professional tuning options or the things that individuals do to their cars, you'd believe that he's right. Next time you find yourself in posession of a 911T and an extra hundred grand, call up Gemballa and see if you can get them to build you an 800TT killer. I'm sure they'd be happy to oblige. If you think that just because a car isn't on this site it doesn't exist, you're sadly mistaken.

    Most of these professional supertuners do custom jobs, so their best work isn't ever in a performance upgrade package. Hennessey just made the best he can do a fancy package so the know-nothing Viper owners who want to feel cool can just point and sign a check. You guys need to look beyond Supercars.net for your info and opinions.<!-- Signature -->
     
  17. why is it that anytime someone gives reason to this viper with twin turbos not being the greatest car ever made, which is a pretty big #$%#ing label might i add, that the only comeback bigblock and hennesseyms have is that i need proof, oh we dont beleive you, until you show me some proof im gonna say bye bye. grow up will ya, the hennessey is a fast car, but come on, the most impressive cars to me are ones that have been perfected generation after generation. its a nice car but the vette with just as much money thrown into it would crush it, look at the bare bones of it. you have more money to spend and you starting with almost the same product. if you threw 100g's into the vette i think anyone would agree it would beat the viper. also, who the hell cares about 0-60? 0-100 is a much better teast for a sports car because many cars dont even shift before 60 and secondly the times 0-60 are do frickin close its hard to tell in a comparison the difference between 2.4 and 2.45, just like in the quarter mile, a tenth of a second is HUGE thus you can more accurately measure one car against the other.<!-- Signature -->
     
  18. Well, the reason they (and I) ask for proof is because it's all too easy to say, "Well, this car is faster than that car." Someone else will say, "No, that car is faster than this car." Who to believe, the guy who merely claims it, or the guy with at least a decent amount of evidence to back it up? Unfortunately, MOST of us on these forums will never be able to test either of these cars, so we have to rely on the available data. Simple, really.

    Regarding the VTTT, it should be noted that there's more to the story:
    "The story behind the creation of the Diablo VTTT's is quite interesting, they wanted to bore the standard 5.6-Liter out to a 7.4 Liter unit, but Automobili Lamborghini SpA didn't advice this move, it would be more feasible to use the 7.0 or even the 8.0 Liter marine engine from Lamborghini. After close calculation this engine would pump out 640 Bhp with stock compression, but by installing two turbo's and boosting the compression, an easy 1170 Bhp was possible on dyno-testing, unfortunately this much power and torque would rip the Visco Coupling to pieces, so avoiding to rebuild a stronger coupling system, they settled for the standard engine and ended up with about 758 Bhp on the wheel dyno, unfortunately since the front axle drive was removed when testing the engine, about 20 percent would be lost driving the front wheels too, but still a healthy 600 Bhp would be available to the fortunate driver."

    So, dyno testing is one thing. Actually getting an 1170-bhp Diablo on the road is quite another, and judging by the story behind this, none has ever hit the road with that kind of power. The 800TT, on the other hand, has made dozens if not hundreds of dyno pulls and dragstrip runs in the quest for more and more power. 1087 RWHP, last I checked.
    Keep in mind also that Lamborghini has traditionally been optimistic when it comes to the top speed claims for its cars, a trait also shared by its rival Ferrari. Considering that a 1300-hp Skyline has trouble mustering anything beyond 215 mph, I doubt a Diablo would fare much better. Unless it's RWD.
    This is not to say the Diablo, in any state of tune, isn't a bad-ass machine. Far from it.
     
  19. The only way to prove everything said in the previous posts would be to take all the cars mentioned to all the tracks and test them. Since that is never going to happen (it would takes months, let alone days) it's useless to argue endlessly over it. So, the car's got muscle, who cares what it takes. I'm sure all those guys drving around the streets with their self-modded cars don't care what parts it took to crank out HP and torque.

    It's great that everyone can flaunt their knowledge. I have none to flaunt, so I'll just leave it at that. It's a cool car, but there's better ones around. So long as humans are still on Earth, and still producing cars, there will be no such thing as "The Greatest Car On the Planet." It's like computers:buy one today, its obsolete in a week.
     
  20. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from LanciaDeltaIntegraleS4</i>
    <b>Do you think that this car is truly the fastest car on the planet?</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Nope. And I've never stated as such. I'm pretty sure I've seen the ZL1 Camaro crank out a quicker ET than this one. And the Stryker Twin Turbo Viper has seen 247 mph at Bonneville, which this car hasn't. My bet for the fastest car around almost any track would be a tuned Porsche GT2.
     
  21. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Guibo</i>
    <b>
    Nope. And I've never stated as such. I'm pretty sure I've seen the ZL1 Camaro crank out a quicker ET than this one. And the Stryker Twin Turbo Viper has seen 247 mph at Bonneville, which this car hasn't. My bet for the fastest car around almost any track would be a tuned Porsche GT2.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    That comment wasn't directed at you, and I never would expect you to say that.

    Just to backtrack a bit, the GT2 is a great example of the difference between grip and handling. While it has tremendous grip, there are Vipers, Skylines, and Corvettes with better skidpad numbers. The GT2 - though automotive journalists seem to have taken a liking to smashing it because of its price and the fact that it doesn't weigh that much less than the Turbo - is one hell of a precision handling machine. The reviews I've read and the videos I've seen of it maneuvering road courses are unbelievable. Instant responses, unparalleled sure-footedness, unheard of comunicativeness, that car has it all. That's why I think it's great, not because it pulls 1.02g. That's also why I don't like the Viper as much; have you heard any of those things said about a Viper?

    Do you know of anyone who really tuned their GT2? I'd bet that with thinner glass, carbon fiber everywhere possible, and deletion of a/c, radio, speakers, and all the other stuff you don't need to race that you could drop another 500lbs or so. Give it a little more boost and improved aspiration (once your front bumper doesn't have to meet DOT requirements you can give it one hell of an air dam) and you could get 500+hp out of it. So, after making yourself a GT1, you'd have one hell of a track car.<!-- Signature -->
     
  22. The thing about the GT2, though, is that it was designed from the very beginning to be a twisty-track type of car. As such, the reviews for it in this context have been excellent. Its rear-engine layout, IMO, is best for track work. Porsche have come a long way in taming the lift-throttle oversteer that doomed many an inexpertly driven Porsche's tail to the guardrail. Four decades of fine-tuning shows it really paying off. That said, a couple of reviewers have noted it's a bit harsh for daily driver use. Those solid metal bushings that allow for such quick reactions also result in a more punishing ride.
    In regards to the Viper, the fact that it was not designed as a twisty track type of car, but can still hang with (and indeed, beat) many of its contemporaries that were (ie. 993 Turbo/Turbo S, F355, etc.) speaks volumes. Of course, the fact that the GT2 wasn't intended for only straightline acceleration, yet can produce such a ferocious 0-150 time also speaks volumes. But it is from a different generation of supercar and in a different price bracket altogether. When looking at the picture as a whole, I see can get a sense of the relative value of each car.

    I'm pretty certain Gemballa and TechArt will be coming out with tuned versions of the GT2 in the not so distant future. I'm pretty certain the TechArt GT Street is already based on the GT2.

     
  23. Just to acknowledge my bias: I am absolutely a twisty track car guy. If a car doesn't communicate in the corners, I don't care what it does when you send the gas pedal to the floor. I understand that there are other valid viewpoints, I just couldn't endure a car that didn't handle well.

    The Honda Accord that I drive is slow as anything, but it is so predictable and consistent in its handling that I love to drive it. A friend of mine, who owns a 1994 S4 (the 5 cylinder, 4 valve/cylinder, single turbo version) says that my car handles better than his, that it's quicker and tighter in many respects. I agree. Of course, my car weighs about 1500lbs less than his, so it really should be quicker while turning. I think power and weight need to be carefully balanced for a truly enjoyable ride, and just about anything that sacrifices handling is unnecessary.

    I think it would be a close race between a Viper and a 993 Turbo S. Those cars are amazing.<!-- Signature -->
     
  24. #124 hennesseyms, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Lancia, I apperciate the posts because after all to have a good forum you need a protector (me, as obvious by my name) and a Devil's advocate (you, which i might add you're one of the few people who's posts are worth while). I apperciate the debates. Anyway nuff said. This car is not just a mod car and I know you could buy a under 100k sports car throw down another 100k and have possibly a rivial to this. I'm looking for a car licensed by the car company (like Dodge who has licenced this car, that's why it's not a funny mod car) who is a worthy opponet. A car close to this with that caould be it in a line, on the streets and on the track. Don't get me wrong, people say, hey it's just a modded GT-S Viper. When I first saw one of these (650r) with my own eyes I was thinking the same thing. Just like any car company there are variations. Mustang V-6 and Mustang GT 4.6L. Corvette C5 and Z06. Porshe Boxter and 911 Turbo. Same thing here but kinda better caompaison is like this. Mustang 4.6L and SVT Cobra Mustang. You get the point...GT-S Viper and Viper Venom 800tt. A great car. I not looking to put down every other great car it's just I been in a 650r now it's a 750r and they're just so amazing especially when it's only 200k and less<IMG SRC="http://www.supercars.net/servlets/cMsg/html/emoticons/smile.gif">

    www.motortrend.com/june01/ttviper/ttviper_f.html
    www.hennesseyms.com <!-- Signature -->
     
  25. Ehh...the 800TT doesn't exactly come from Dodge, though. Although Hennessey and Dodge supposedly swap ideas about how to extract power reliably from these machines.
     

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