Re: Let's Talk about Tuned Cars Now - 2000 Dodge Hennessey Viper

listen you dumbass #$%#in american! you must be blind because this lamborghini goes 0-60 in 3.7 seconds not 3.8! and why the hell do you compare a tuned race car to imagine how bad this lamborghini would murder your little american viper if it was a high tuned race car!!! the viper would be no match!!! so take your little uneducated comments and put them where the sun dont shine because they are worth nothing!!!

ps: if you would have been smart you would of seen the viper that does 0-60 in 2.4 seconds! but that is another story


First of all you quote Lamborghini as being a " very high quality stock italian supercar " Lamborghini is NOT some mass produced Dodge Viper costing $ 65,000 its a specialty car company who charges $ 265,000 for a car it claims is one of the fastest in the world.
heres a quote from Paul Frere when he drove the Diablo GT in Road & Tracks Nov 2000 issue. " This car is built for performance at high-speed, more along the line of a GT1-type RACE CAR, so it would be hard to go shopping in one." and the Diablo GT went 202.6 mph ( 326.0 km/h )
So its perfectly fair to compare the Hennessey to the Diablo GT and the 800TT is NOT a high-tuned race car its the same as the Diablo GT a street-legal road car with racecar performance, now the 800 TT completly destroys the Diablo GT in every aspect of performance and yes even on the Street Radials and NOT the dot slicks it did a 0-60 in 3.21 seconds on Michelin Pilot Sport street radials and it also did a [email protected] mph 1/4 mile on the same street tires , bolt on some DOT slicks and 0-60 takes just 2.43 seconds and the 1/4 mile was recorded in [email protected] mph. so with street tires the Diablo cant make the same times and this is comming from a car that costs $ 265,000 not including import tax , luxury tax and gas-guzzler tax, which brings the Diablo GT well ober $300,000, now you can compare the 800TT to the Diablo VTTT if you like ,but NO VTTT has ever been fully road tested by a magazine so its numbers are just estimates.

Now heres some quotes from Car and Driver ( Apirl 92 ) about your
"very high quality stock italian supercar" the tested a Lamborghini Diablo and a Ferrari F-40 for three days at the time both models where new so the owner of both the cars had to pay psychotic mark-ups for the two list price for the Diablo was $272,935 he paid at the time $ 480,000 and the Ferrari F-40 list price was $ 471,375 and he paid get this $ 775,000.
They spend 3 days with both cars and here is the things that went wrong on this 2 brand new cars.

The Diablo.
Huge air leak in left coner of drivers-side window.
Driver's lap belt won't retract.
Triangular piece of unidentified gooey-surfaced plastic trim is rolling around the footwell.
Fuel-filler flap wont lock.
Greyhound-sized windshield wiper, despite carbon-fiber downforce tabs, begins to life off beyond 80 mph.
Ominous groan from rear bulkhead; a half-shaft ot losse subframe assembly?.
Gear-shift knob ready to fall off.
Door latches impossibly stiff, requiring two hands to operate.
Fuel-Filler cap james.
Right-side muffler begins to sag.
$600 lamb's-wool floor mats fould clucth and accelerator pedals.
Air-condtioning condensation tube strikes pavment.
Climate-control panel unfastens; appears it may fall out of the dash.
Hand-brake lever is wobbling.
Drivers side door is unwilling to open enirely.

The Ferrari feels more solidly built and understandably so ; It comes from Maranello attched to fewer pieces that can fall off. Some fall off anyway, The drivers door shifts and begins to bind, grazing the blood red paint,until it can be adjusted we scramble out the passenger's door, Impersonating the Diablo, the F-40,s driver's-side lap belt refuses to retract,The Rear brakes don't just squeal the SCREAM, and the latches that hold the entire nosepiece begin to work loose,creating at 40 mph a unique whole-car harmonic." they they test both on the race-track ( Moroso Motorsports Park 2.25 mile road course ) and the Diablo after a few laps its brakes get hot and induce pedal judder , its oil temp shoots to 130 degrees Celsius and the water temp is at 110 degrees.
Now all these things wrong on brand new cars ,would be unacceptable on anything costing $15,000 never mind something that costs $250,000 and above. and i read another thread about " Italian Quality " in the Koenig Ferrari F-50 twin-turbo section, about two F355 owners its a must read, and Oh by the way Ducattis are also very unreliable as well , so i guess so much for "very high quality stock italian supercars " and NO i'm not bashing italian supercars only stating facts i love Ferraris but don't go bashing American cars because we can make our American cars go a LOT faster for a Hell of a lot less money.

 

The New Viper GTS laps the nurburgring 1 second behind the Diablo SV, still not even sure if it was the '96 SV. The Lamborghini Diablo SV was a 520 hp, which I think makes it a '97 SV. If it was the 97 SV, then the '98 and '99 SV which is equiped with Variable-Valve timing would perhaps take off another second or two off, because it is considerably faster. These tests were not performed by Lamborghini enthusiasts. There is not one course where the Viper GTS will ever beat a Diablo SV. The nurburgring (a big handelers course) would have been its best chance, seeing as you say it has "good" handeling, but it failed anyhow, even though the Diablo has a high center of gravity for a car that low.

The F50 is an extremely competetive car. R&T had a slower slalom speed for the F50 than they did for the 360 Modena, but the F50 handels better than the Modena, no question. The Modena's suspension is much softer. R&T will never honestly tell you that the Modena handels better, despite their two different tests. They know which one is faster. The Ferrari F50 has the same lap times on many courses as the Diablo GT and the Ferrari F40. The F50 had a better lap time than the Mclaren F1 on some courses! The Viper does not come close to any of them.

No one ever said anything about factory declarations. You're getting off the subject. The Diablo GT is infact NOT much faster than the '99 Diablo SV (compare 1/4 mile times '99 Diablo SV best 11.9 at 122 mph, Diablo GT best, 11.8 seconds at 124 mph), but the Diablo GT has a newer and imroved suspension.

When it comes to R&T and C&D, don't expect them to push their Italian Imported, privately owned cars to the Limit. How much g did Road and Track get out of their 360 Modena and 550 Barcheta? No more than 0.93 g. Other magazines got 1.08 g out of their 550 Marenello. And how much g did R&T get out of their Mclaren F1? A pathetic 0.86 g!! (And I believe it was Mario Andretti, correct me if I'm wrong). Car and driver got 1.01 g out of their Mclaren F1. And the Diablo GT, as I already said, got 1.10 g despite R&T 0.97 g. The Ferrari F50 undoubtably handels better than 0.95 gs as well. The magazines your quoting as proof are not the only performances out their. That's not how you compare cars.


The Lamborghini may be faster around the nurbergring 1 second but thats NOT saying much for lamborghini is it , and out of every magazine i have seen when the F50 was first tested it NEVER did a top speed test or slalom or skidpad it was always estimates and factory claims, ever wonder why ?
because the F50 is NOT as great as Ferrari claimed it was , and you keep saying that the cars are faster or handle better then they are listed , if thats the case where are you getting that information?? from laps around the Nubergring? where are you getting your info from so perhaps i can check up on it ? i mean Road & Track and Car and Driver can be trusted more the a Factory claim .

 

Do you know the difference between "nimble" and good handeling? The Diablo is not nimble like a Porsche GT3 or GT2, but the Diablo is still a pretty good handeling car. And the reason I mentioned the Nurburgring is because it is a BIG handeler's course. Youre not going to make good times at the Nurburgring if you don't have good handeling, plain and simple so the Diablo needs to have pretty good handeling to make it at the nurburgring, especially to compensate for its size. Brakes are important too. Does the Diablo SV have better handeling than the Viper GTS? Don't know, but I never said it did. I would bet it does, though.

I assure you that the Diablo SV does 1/4 mile in 12.0 seconds. The Ferrari F50 does 1/4 miles in 12.1-11.9 seconds, recorded in various magazines. And whoever has driven the cars says that beyond 60 mph, the Diablo SV is faster than the F50. the Diablo SV does 0-60 in 4.0 seconds, the F50 in 3.7 seconds because the F50 is lighter and has better grip at the start; but after that the Diablo SV is faster. Motor Trend tested the Diablo 6.0 1/4 mile at 11.8 seconds at 121 mph, and everyone who has driven those cars as well knows that the Diablo SV is faster than the Diablo 6.0 beyond 60 mph. There is absolutely no reason for you to be doubting Quatroroute. If you think the tests are worth ZERO than maybe you should stop only Reading Road and Track. And do you even have the R&T magazine that tested the Diablo SV? I think you're getting that information from a website that I've seen also, so don't say you know how they tested the DIablo SV.

Do you actually think that the Viper GTS and Corvette Z06 have better handeling than the Diablo GT and Ferrari F50? That's a little too much to be claiming. The Diablo GT has an updated suspension from the SV. You need to read other things besides Road and Track; they are not the only magazine. And despite the fact that Proffesional drivers drive some cars, these proffesional drivers still have to act according to R&T policies. When dealing with privately owned cars, and even cars from a dealer (which if you were not aware also had to buy the cars), they can't take the car to the extreme. Motor Trend tested their Diablo 6.0 strait from the factory, and they ended up with accurate results of what the car can really do. Does that make sense?

The best magazines I would recomend are Motor Trend, Evo magazine, and Quatroroute; they don't always give the same results, but they are at least consistent with themselves.

And See here:
Motor Trend 0.93 g's for the 550 Marenello, and 68 mph on the slalom. R&T apperantly does 0.97 g for the Diablo GT and 61 mph on the slalom. 61 mph is pretty slow, I don't care who is driving. And that just shows that g's don't tell you barely anything about slalom speeds. You think it's impossible for the Diablo GT to do 1.10 g and for another magazine to do 1.07 g for a better handeling car (Porsche GT1)? First of all, g's don't even matter, and there are plenty of cars that have tested with a lot of g's and don't handel as well as other cars. Second of all, two different magazines tested them, so to compare those is nonsense! R&T did only 0.86 g for the Mclaren F1, and I think Mario Andretti was the one who tested it, no? But C&D did 1.01 g for the Mclaren F1; And then, R&T did only 1.02 g for the Porsche GT2, but the Porsche GT2 handels SOOOO much better than the Mclaren F1, so why are they so close(1.02 compared to 1.01)? Because they were two different magazines, and it doesn't mean anything! And see here: R&T themselves tested the Diablo 6.0 (with no expert driver as far as I know) and did 0.99 g. Now obviously the GT will beat that, so enough with the "0.97 g" stuff. In fact there is a picture of that magazine that tested the Diablo GT in this forum, and I'm putting it up again in here. It is in Italian, but what it basically says is that they were tested at and average speed of *speed given at the bottom of the picture* on a 180 ft. curve.

 

I don't just get my information from Road & Track ( which i do read ) i read Motor Trend , Car and Driver , Automoblie Magazine , i also have Turbo , Forza, Robb Report, Dupont Registry, Vette, HighTech Performance, and yes i read them and i searched high and low for road tests on the Diablo GT and Diablo SV , i found a article about the Diablo SV MY Automobile Magazine May 1997 , but they only quote the Factory claims of 0-62 - 3.9 top speed 191 mph. ironicly enough every road test on a Diablo i found there was NO skidpad or slalom numbers posted they where all N/A , and Motor Trend tested a Diablo VT 6.0 and it listed a 0-60 - 3.4 and the 1/4 mile of [email protected] mph. which is pretty impressive , but alas no handling numbers they where N/A.
If you have any other Diablo GT or SV handling numbers besides Quatroroute i would like to see them, and the original statement still holds true The Diablo GT does not handle better then a Viper GTS or Z06 , this is how all magazines test cars for handling

Handling tests evaluate a test car’s abilities in other than a straight line. Lateral acceleration around a skidpad measures the steady-state lateral grip a car can generate. The result is reported in g’s calculated using the average of the best timed laps, clockwise and counterclockwise, around a 200-ft.-diameter circle. Balance is subjectively evaluated by the test driver. Speed through a 700-ft. slalom is a test to analyze a car’s lateral grip capabilities in transient state where it needs to weave through

a series of eight cones spaced 100 ft. apart. The car is timed as it threads through the course and an average speed in mph is calculated. The car’s Balance in this exercise is also rated by the test driver. Overall seat support indicates how well the seat supports and holds the driver in place as the test car is driven through the two handling exercises. Both handling tests are timed using an infrared timing beacon.
now the one that generates the highest numbers is the better handling car thats just a fact , it doesn't mean its fastest around a race track because you have to have the total package in order to be the fastest around the track and that doesn't always assure you'll win.
and if you say never compare two cars tested from two differant magazines , Okay i'll compare the Z06 to the Diablo GT , now both were tested by Road & Track November 2000 , here are the cars they tested BMW Z8 , Corvette Z06 , Ferrari 550 , Diablo GT , Porsche 911 Turbo , RUF 911 Turbo R , they tested top speed , slalom , skidpad and here is the skidpad numbers saide by side.

Skidpad - Z06 - 1.00G - Diablo GT - 0.97G
Slalom - Z06 - 67.1 mph - Diablo GT - 61.3 mph
Top Speed - Z06 - 174.8 mph ( 281.3 km/h ) Diablo GT 202.6 mph ( 326.0 km/h )

Now that means it has better handling then the Diablo GT , and the Diablo GT has a higher top speed. NO opinions just facts, now you cant say " Oh they don't push the cars of customers "
because thats not true, look at it this way they did a top speed test and the Diablo GT reached its top speed in 5th gear at its REDLINE of 7500, now thats NOT pushing the car? i mean you can go further then that ,now why would they not push the Diablo GT in the slalom ? its a HELL of a lot safer then doing a top speed , worst case senario in either handling test is its spins safely out of control , because the skidpad is a huge circle and the slalom has pleanty of space to spin a car and thats the worst that could happen, so please save the they didn't push the car to its limits, this guy won Le Mans, he is more qualified to drive this car then ANY customer who buys it.
And finally the SV which was faster around the Nurbergring by 1 second over a UK spec Viper GTS , i did some research and the UK spec GTS is underpowered to the US Spec EVO lists the UK specs Horsepower as [email protected] and torque at [email protected] lbs ft , now the Viper GTS sold in the US is more powerfull then that , [email protected] and [email protected] , i mean thats a big differance, now get a US spec GTS with the same driver and the SV would be beat, now come up with some other tests besides quatroroute for the Diablo GT if you can find any because i sure as hell looked in all the magazines i have plus online and its seems a common theme among Lamborghinis not to test thier Skidpad or Slalom capabilties , you don't find that strange?

 

Let's Talk about Tuned Cars Now - 2000 Dodge Hennessey Viper Ven

Sorry, guys.

I know you might get disappointed of me picking an American Muscle car over my favorite Lamborghini, but...facts are facts.

If we are comparing incomparable cars like Diablo GT and Murc, let's keep comparing incomparable cars.

You talk about faster, more aggressive, better HP, better Torque, right?

Well, here you go! For twice less the price that's my pick for the TUNED RACE CAR of all times.

I repeat, I am not comparing Lamborghini to Dodge...NO WAY!
I am comparing 1999 Diablo GT Race Car to a 2000 Dodge Hennessey Viper Venom 800TT Race Car based on stats ONLY, not the QUALITY!!!

P.S. People who talked about Diablo GT being so much FASTER!!! are not realizing one thing - they will NEVER, EVER, EVER feel the difference between 3.7 and 3.8 second run from 0-60. Even the most experienced racecar driver won't! The ONLY way to tell is if you digitally clock the run! This is the ONLY way.
And both cars can very easily overturn 0.1-second advantage, whenever their computer is reprogrammed to use certain amount of fuel injected per second, let's say.

These are equally outstanding cars in all aspects. I will take any one of them with my eyes closed, but don't forget that a new model is still a new model, and since Lamborghini is discontinuing Diablo, well, we just all have to get along now!
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I don't fully understand your point, but I THINK I agree with you.

But, to be 100% "proper," you would compare twin-turbo's to other twin-turbos. Namely, the Diablo VTTT. But you made it clear you are comparing a tuned car to an un-tuned car, so that's fine.

 

Actually you are right, now lets take a look at service records shall we? what about comfort? is all your looking at for compairing cars the power? if thats the case I've got a cardboard box with a V10 and some wheels for sale. No offence intended but this point is very well ummmmm uneducated<!-- Signature -->

 

man i would take the 800tt viper over this, or any lambo anyday of the week. the dodge would spank this thing. and could you just imagine the svs stryker viper against this it would kill it.

 

Dodge Vipers and Chevy vets are no match for any Italian exotic supercar. Face it. The only way these american muscle cars can outrun a Lamborghini or Ferrari is if they are tuned up! Italian exotics combine power, luxury and beauti like no other manufacturer in the world!!!

 

listen you dumbass #$%#in american! you must be blind because this lamborghini goes 0-60 in 3.7 seconds not 3.8! and why the hell do you compare a tuned race car to very high quality stock italian supercar??? imagine how bad this lamborghini would murder your little american viper if it was a high tuned race car!!! the viper would be no match!!! so take your little uneducated comments and put them where the sun dont shine because they are worth nothing!!!

ps: if you would have been smart you would of seen the viper that does 0-60 in 2.4 seconds! but that is another story<!-- Signature -->

 

I'd take the dodge because it would be faster in a straight line yes, an extra 225hp goes a long way. I think the drastic HP difference makes it a unfair comparisson. Probably better to compare a non turbo viper with a race package, then the cars would be on even ground.
But i'm sure they both develop more or less the same lateral grip, however the lambo would be more agile with a quicker turn in, exit, and better stability.
So around a track I don't think this lambo would lag far behind a 800TT. <!-- Signature -->

 

How can you even compare the grace and unmatched beauty of this Italian piece of art to a dodge, how dare you, 3.7, 3.8 who cares the style of Italian supercars is unrivaled.<!-- Signature -->

 

Factory claims don't often match the real thing. In the Case of the GT, 0-60 time is MUCH FASTER than they claim. The 6.0 does a 0-60 time of 3.4 seconds in test runs, and the GT is even more.

 

how can u compare a dodge against an italian classic?
u can't.if lambo put that much hp in the diablo, lets see what would happen.they need 800hp just to beat it?comon!<!-- Signature -->

 

Oh, If nobody yet has mentioned, yes, the Hennessey Viper Venom 800TT is faster than the GT. Who cars? 800 hp out of a twin turbo 8.0 liter engine? Lamborghini could easily top that. Put a Turbo on the GT and I'd like to see any car in the world keep up.

 

Why? Why do people keep comparing a American tuned V8 street dragsters to Europe's V12 race cars. Both cars are great, but they're meant for two different reasons. When you think of an italian sports car, you think of luxury, style, and a race track. When you think of an American Muscle car you start thinking of power, torque, and a Main Street. We build our muscle cars for street fun first, and circuits second. Sometime's we get a highly tuned car that can compete well with Italians on the track and sometimes we don't. Now let's stop bickering, admit that each set of cars has it's strong point, and go out and have some fun.

 

I would have to agree with "i be rollin 336" The background, engine configuration and purpose on both cars are completly different. Both are great cars but they are in 2 separate leages!!!!!!

 

i keep hearing talk about the "legacy" and "style" of lambo. i think that most of them are ugly, mind you that is my personal opinion, but how can you go and say that the viper doesnt have syle. i think the viper is one of the most agressive and most beautiful cars ever made. and everybody keeps saying that if lambo built a race version of a diablo it would beat an 800tt. well then why dont they. personally i dont think they could. but who cares the viper is obviously faster and the diablo it a great italian supercar. enjoy them both

 

the comparison between the two is just ridiculous. they are not meant for the same thing. the fast viper is just a test of how far the car can be pushed. the lamborghini GT is a slight modification on a car that is meant to be a car that can be driven on the weekends or driven daily with putting on a smalll amount of miles. whether the viper is faster or not, is therefore a ridiculous statement because it is not meant to do what the lamborghini can do. also, sit inside of a lamborghini -- it is meant to give luxury with a taste of the extremity of a race car. the viper is just a raw cheap American interior of basically a racing car. if you just wanna talk about sheer speed, then just go ahead, but then theres no point of talking because 0-60 speed is shown in the numbers not in opinion. if you wanna talk about which car is better, then go ahead. but dont confuse issues because speed isnt the only factor to a car.

 

hey sniper theres no need to cry about it. i believe this particular forum was about the 800tt versus the lambo. obviously the 800tt is faster than the lambo. now i dont care if the viper lacks interior style it is still a faster car and a very sweet looking car if you ask me. and i do believe i am entitled to my own opinion. correct.

 

hey snyper if you had read into the it says the it was acheived on "cheater slicks" just in case you dont know what those are they are street legal slicks which means the have some tread on them. plus it state that the 0-60 time was acheived in the rain! slicks let alone cheater slick dont grip very well in the rain. so could you just imagine the 0-60 time on dry ground.....ha