Re: Let's Talk about Tuned Cars Now - 2000 Dodge Hennessey Viper

Discussion in '1999 Lamborghini Diablo GT' started by snyper, Aug 10, 2002.

  1. since it is a road car, the diablo is set up for accelleration at speed, instead of the fastest possible 0-60 time... much like the McLaren f1 LM, which is slower than the original 0-60, but is much faster once at speed... it does 50-80 in 1.2 sec...<!-- Signature -->
     
  2. I wonder why so many people get so upset. None of you here can afford either one, yet get so emotional (like children) like its your company or something. I will certainly stick around. This place.....amuses me.
     
  3. hate to tell u this, but the original viper engine was designed by lamborghini...if u dont believe it, go do some research. late!
     
  4. It is amazing to see how much response can one get on a controversial issue like this!
    I am very pleased to see 59 people wasting their time typing childish unreliable insults at each other.
    It is important to read the FIRST comment before trying to come up with replies that make no sense, because they target the issues that were NOT meant to be discussed.
    The VIPER was NOT compared to STOCK Lamborghini. WAS NOT. WAS NOT. WAS NOT. It said "to ANY." Any means ANY. ANY. ANY. ANY = Single turbo, twin turbo, Quadra turbo, "whatever makes you happy" turbo!
    Compare it to the VTTT, which has a twin turbo and IS a specially tuned racecar!!! Would "twin turbo to twin turbo" TOPIC sentence in this argument mean more sense than "ANY" Lambo TOPIC sentense? It looks like the same thing to me!
    You were welcome to pick ANY Lambo, which will statistically loose in the numbers? Yeah that COATL with 4.2MPH higher speed???!!!
    Give me a break! Is that all YOU got???!!!
    If most of you would take a little time and read the FIRST comment in this argument, you would see that the cars were not meant to be compared. NOT. NOT. NOT. NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    It was numbers against numbers that happened to be in different cars, that is all!!!
    So, please. Why don't we make sure that we understand what the author tried to do before we go on insulting the person with obscene language phrases that only make the person who typed them look unsure and irritated, which probalby is the result of a bad relationship or unsatisfied sexual desires!!!
    Let's all calm down and breathe for a while, because this is just a forum for a human being's opinions and suggestion, not a YAHOO! chat room where you would cuss someone out and put them down!
    Please, grow up!
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  5. Oh one more thing!
    In the "P.S." section of the FIRST comment in this battle I was not talking about VIPER and Lamborghini.
    I was referring to the OTHER forum TOPIC where they were comparing 1999 Lamborghini GT and the 2002 Lamborghini Murcielago!!!!!!!!!
    Maybe that threw you off, I don't know!<!-- Signature -->
     
  6. some of you may also recall that in almost every article on any modified viper, the thing breaks. also, all acceleration figures are always done on drag slicks, as the lambos are street tires. in terms of modifying a lambo, there is alot available. just changing the exhaust, gives over 50hp to the rear wheels, and reduces weight by almost 100pds. on a diablo sv, the computer is interchangeable with the diablo svr computer. there are cams, intakes etc. then of course not only turbo'd , but supercharged cars out there. american magazine reports are also misleading, as they baby the lambos in the acceleration runs as most are privately owned. most american magazines actually say a diablo sv is slower than a viper gts in the quarter mile and 0-60. i assure you this is not the case, as ive raced many, and again bone stock against bone stock, the diablo is faster, much faster.
     
  7. I can name so many Lambos that would rape your shitty 800TT, let's beggin

    Diablo Jota GTR: 730bhp (naturally aspirated) and a curb weight of 2500lbs
    Diablo BBR-GTi: 1000bhp
    Diablo Koenig: 800-850bhp
    Diablo VTTT: 750-1500bhp
    Diablo SVTT: 750-1500bhp
    Diablo Affolter GTR LM
     
  8. jeez, u pop an 800 horse engine in the diablo, and i dont wanna be in the same city, u may aswell prop it up on its rear and put on ur space suit, cuz thats wear ur goin!<!-- Signature -->
     
  9. my sv, on nitrous is over 800hp. i dont have any real acceleration numbers, just cars ive raced. i will tell you this, at 100 mph the car is still sideways blowing the tires off. ive raced many vipers, corvette z06's,porsche twin turbo's,and just the other day a ferrari 360 modena, and the car just blows them all away. the first murcielago was also just delivered to its first owner in the u.s.. that is going to be a great car, im looking forward to the 2 wheel drive version sv, which should be out within 2 years. in the mean time, ive tried to find out about getting a diablo gt, but from what ive heard theres only 2 in the u.s., and they can only be driven 2500 miles a year under the show and display law.
     
  10. some of you may also recall that in almost every article on any modified viper, the thing breaks. also, all acceleration figures are always done on drag slicks, as the lambos are street tires. in terms of modifying a lambo, there is alot available. just changing the exhaust, gives over 50hp to the rear wheels, and reduces weight by almost 100pds. on a diablo sv, the computer is interchangeable with the diablo svr computer. there are cams, intakes etc. then of course not only turbo'd , but supercharged cars out there. american magazine reports are also misleading, as they baby the lambos in the acceleration runs as most are privately owned. most american magazines actually say a diablo sv is slower than a viper gts in the quarter mile and 0-60. i assure you this is not the case, as ive raced many, and again bone stock against bone stock, the diablo is faster, much faster.


    Road & Track June 2000
    tested a Lamborghini Diablo SV with 530 horsepower at a 1/4 mile dragstrip best E.T. 12.70@114.05 MPH

    Motor Trend May 1998
    Totaly Stock Dodge Viper GTS on street tires 1/4 mile 12.1@118.6 MPH.

    Motor Trend Feb 2002
    Totaly Stock Corvette Z06 on street tires 1/4 mile 12.48@114.9 MPH

    Diablo SV $230,000
    Dodge Viper $ 65,000
    Vette Z06 $ 50,000

    The Diablo may have a useless top speed but it gets beat by these two cars and for a HELL of a lot less money. Oh by the way both handle better too.!!
     
  11. I'm not going to bash you, "Scotti," but you need to do a little more reaserch on this one; you're way off. The Diablo SV does the 1/4 mile in 12.0 seconds @ 122 mph, tested by Quatroroute. And you say the Z06 and the Viper GTS handel better? Is that why the Diablo SV laps the Nurburgring (which is a big HANDELING track) 6 whole seconds faster than the Viper GTS?

    Allan owns a Diablo SV, so I think his opinion holds a little more weight than yours on this one. And the Diablo GT is not a tuned car, it's the replacement for the SV. You can't use the statement that the Diablo GT is a "race car for the road" to justify comparing it to a souped-up Viper. All Diablos are "race cars for the roads"
     
  12. I'm not going to bash you, "Scotti," but you need to do a little more reaserch on this one; you're way off. The Diablo SV does the 1/4 mile in 12.0 seconds @ 122 mph, tested by Quatroroute. And you say the Z06 and the Viper GTS handel better? Is that why the Diablo SV laps the Nurburgring (which is a big HANDELING track) 6 whole seconds faster than the Viper GTS?

    Allan owns a Diablo SV, so I think his opinion holds a little more weight than yours on this one. And the Diablo GT is not a tuned car, it's the replacement for the SV. You can't use the statement that the Diablo GT is a "race car for the road" to justify comparing it to a souped-up Viper. All Diablos are "race cars for the roads"

    My information is NOT way off i'm just quoting Road & Track and the best they could do on a drag strip with a Diablo SV is 12.72@114.05 MPH now i'm not saying Quatroroute is wrong , the car the tested may have been a European version which may account for the differant times , i know when they tested a European F40 it did the 1/4 mile in 11.8@124.5 mph and when the tested a US version it went 12.2@122 mph, The US spec version weighs 250lbs more to meet the EPA DOT standards so thats explains the differant times.
    Now the Z06 and the Viper does handle better then ANY Lamborghini i mean thats just a fact , now a Diablo may have gone faster around " The Ring " that may be drivers skill, The Skidpad and the Slalom speeds on both cars are greater.
    And Allan " Claims " hes owns a SV i have no proof of his claims and people online arent always honest about they claims , and i wasn't stating my opinion about the SV i was stating facts, and the facts are the Diablo GT tested by former Formula 1 driver and Le Mans winner Paul Frere and Formula 1 world champion Phil Hill and the best it could do was 0.97G on the skidpad and a slalom speed of 61.5 mph and both the Viper and the Z06 can better that.
    Now you can compare the Hennessey to anything that " claims " its fast it doesn't matter if its tuned or not , i would compare it to another tuned Lamborghini but there are none that have been tested indepandantly so i cant compare numbers that don't exsist like the VTTT which all i know is said to have 750 horsepower and estimates for top speed , show me proof NOT estimates or guesses, the fact is Hennessey can make a production Viper go faster then a Lamborghini that costs $300,000, and its also faster then the $1,131,120 Mclaren F1 thats NOT my opinion thats a fact.

     
  13. Scottie, never compare R&T performance tests of two different cars done by different drivers at different times. According to R&T, the 360 Modena has a better slalom speed than the Ferrari F50, which is obviously not true. What does that tell you about the cars? Absolutely nothing! Unless they were done in a side-by-side comparison you won't get any conclusive results.

    The F40 was availiable in Katillac or non-Katillac version; The lighter, non-Kat version was only availiable in Europe. Not so with the Diablo. In the US, the stock '98 Diablo SV has done 1/4 mile in even 11.9 seconds, faster than even Quatroroute. Ask any one who has driven the cars, and you will find out that the '98 and '99 Diablo SV is faster than the Ferrari F50 beyond 60 mph.

    Another thing you also forgot to consider is that the Diablo is availiable with optional long gear ratios. R&T may be using these long gear ratios.

    Something that needs to be corrected, though is that the newer Viper GTS laps the nurbrurgring 1 second behind the Diablo SV: Viper GTS 8 min, 10 seconds, Diablo SV 8 min 9 seconds (not even sure if it was the new SV). But it is still apparently obvious that the Diablo is faster than the Viper or has better handeling, but probably both.

    Quatrouroute in fact got 1.10 g out of their Diablo GT. That is a fact. Another fact is that the US Diablo GT is no different than the European one. Even R&T got 0.99 g out of their Diablo 6.0, and you think the Diablo GT can not match that?

    When stating the "facts," be aware that other "facts" exist. You can like one car better than another, but the way you are comparing them is un-fair, and (no offence) pretty cheap. The Diablo is faster around a track and in the straits than a Viper GTS and a Z06.



    You can trust car magazines more then you can trust the Factorys claims , and especially when the people who perform these tests are Race cars drivers,Factorys make claims that they can Rarely live up to , Ferrari claimed 202 mph and 1.20 G on the skid pad for the F50 , and with a Ferrari race driver Andy Evans who raced the 333 SP's, road tested his Personal car the best he could do was 194 mph and that was in 146 rpms into the redline , and on the skidpad he did 0.95 G , didn't match Ferraris claims the F50 is not as great as a car as Ferrari claimed and thats just facts, you even notice when the F50 first came out magazines NEVER listed the skidpad numbers or top speed , it was always estimated or n/a , and you think thats by accident?
    The F50 never lived up to the hype its that simple Car and Driver is the ONLY magazine that has done a top speed test on the F50 and i mean Andy Evans is more then qualified to do the driving.
    Paul Frere a former Formula 1 driver and Le Mans winner tested the Diablo GT as well as Phill Hill a former Formula 1 World Champion , these are not road test editors for a magazines , these are race winners more qualified to drive these cars then the rest of us owners included and the best they could manage was 0.97 G and a Slamom speed of 61.5 mph and its not because they lack skill.

    Now the Diablo may be faster around " The Ring " by 1 second lets chalk that up to better brakes then the GTS but it BEAT the Viper none the less , but 1 second thats NOT saying much for Lamborghini especially when it costs $300,000 and its 60 seconds faster then a $65,000 Viper.
    So its perfectly fair to compare cars that have been tested to there limits by profesional race cars drivers in magazines ,who are more qualified then the owners to push these cars to there limits.

     
  14. The New Viper GTS laps the nurburgring 1 second behind the Diablo SV, still not even sure if it was the '96 SV. The Lamborghini Diablo SV was a 520 hp, which I think makes it a '97 SV. If it was the 97 SV, then the '98 and '99 SV which is equiped with Variable-Valve timing would perhaps take off another second or two off, because it is considerably faster. These tests were not performed by Lamborghini enthusiasts. There is not one course where the Viper GTS will ever beat a Diablo SV. The nurburgring (a big handelers course) would have been its best chance, seeing as you say it has "good" handeling, but it failed anyhow, even though the Diablo has a high center of gravity for a car that low.

    The F50 is an extremely competetive car. R&T had a slower slalom speed for the F50 than they did for the 360 Modena, but the F50 handels better than the Modena, no question. The Modena's suspension is much softer. R&T will never honestly tell you that the Modena handels better, despite their two different tests. They know which one is faster. The Ferrari F50 has the same lap times on many courses as the Diablo GT and the Ferrari F40. The F50 had a better lap time than the Mclaren F1 on some courses! The Viper does not come close to any of them.

    No one ever said anything about factory declarations. You're getting off the subject. The Diablo GT is infact NOT much faster than the '99 Diablo SV (compare 1/4 mile times '99 Diablo SV best 11.9 at 122 mph, Diablo GT best, 11.8 seconds at 124 mph), but the Diablo GT has a newer and imroved suspension.

    When it comes to R&T and C&D, don't expect them to push their Italian Imported, privately owned cars to the Limit. How much g did Road and Track get out of their 360 Modena and 550 Barcheta? No more than 0.93 g. Other magazines got 1.08 g out of their 550 Marenello. And how much g did R&T get out of their Mclaren F1? A pathetic 0.86 g!! (And I believe it was Mario Andretti, correct me if I'm wrong). Car and driver got 1.01 g out of their Mclaren F1. And the Diablo GT, as I already said, got 1.10 g despite R&T 0.97 g. The Ferrari F50 undoubtably handels better than 0.95 gs as well. The magazines your quoting as proof are not the only performances out their. That's not how you compare cars.
     
  15. I think you misunderstood me when i said Road & Track tested the Z06 and Diablo GT , i meant they tested them at the exact same time on the same track on the same day , it was the VW test track , they tested all the cars at once with the same driver Paul Frere the former Le Mans Winner , they tested the 550 Maranello , Diablo GT , Z06 Corvette , Porsche Twin Turbo , RUF Twin Turbo, and BMW Z8
    Now you said i should never compare two differant tests from differant magazines but if i'm not mistaken you are doing the same in the thread Diablo GT VS Mclaren F1, using my information about the Mclaren F1 that posted , so don't be a hypocrite , and i agree with you about the Diablo GT it does handle better the the Mclaren F1 and its almost as fast
    Hell the 6.0 Diabo did a 0-60 in 3.4 and a 1/4 mile in 11.8@120.9 mph in Motor Trend , and Road & Track tested the Mclaren F1 it did 0-60 in 3.4 and the 1/4 in 11.6@125.0 mph , now its only off 2 tenths in the 1/4 , and thats because Lamborghini still uses a gated shifter. now seeing i don't have a full road test on the 6.0 Diablo , i cant compare the rest of the acceleration from above 60 mph, but i would love to see.
     
  16. First of all, I didn't just compare two different magazines and say which one was better. I made it clear that they were done by two different tests, and I was using the best acceleration times for each car. In fact, I gave both C&D and R&T's tests of the Mclaren F1 to show how varied their numbers were, to show that it's not entirely concrete. It just gives you a general sense, but not a decisive comparison.

    If the Diablo GT and Z06 were tested on the same day with the same driver, then that is another matter. I think I did misunderstand that. If the Z06 has better handeling than the Diablo GT, then I applaud them.; that would mean it also has better handeling than the Ferrari F40, Mclarnen F1 and Bugatti EB110, and that's quite an achievement. The Viper is another matter.

    Regarding speed above 60 mph, I can give you the Speed of the Diablo (6.0, SV, GT), but you would know that the acceleration of the Mclaren F1 beyond 60 mph is a total mess. I don't think there is much of a way to compare. But IF R&T and C&D are correct in their figures (11.6 and 11.5 seconds for the Mclaren), then:

    Mclaren F1:
    0-60 mph: 3.2 seconds
    0-100 mph: 7.5 seconds?
    1/4 mile: 11.5 seconds @128 mph

    Diablo GT
    0-60 mph: 3.7 seconds
    0-100 mph: 8.0 seconds
    1/4 mile: 11.8 seconds @ 124 mph

    Diablo 6.0
    0-60 mph: 3.4 seconds
    0-100 mph: 8.4 seconds
    1/4 mile: 11.8 seconds @120.9 mph

    '98 &'99 Diablo SV
    0-60 mph: 4.0 seconds
    0-100 mph: 8.2 seconds
    1/4 mile: 11.9 seconds @ 122 mph

    Those aren't just two different tests, those are compilations of different tests, and represent the best times of each car. The 6.0 has a lot of grip at the start, and the Mclaren F1 is very light, so they have the best 0-60 mph times. After that, the Diablo 6.0 is not as fast as any of them. But the Diablo GT doesn't seem to lose barely any more ground to the Mclaren F1 after 60 mph. The Diablo SV loses ground at the start, but eventually passes the Diablo 6.0.
     
  17. Scottie, never compare R&T performance tests of two different cars done by different drivers at different times. According to R&T, the 360 Modena has a better slalom speed than the Ferrari F50, which is obviously not true. What does that tell you about the cars? Absolutely nothing! Unless they were done in a side-by-side comparison you won't get any conclusive results.

    The F40 was availiable in Katillac or non-Katillac version; The lighter, non-Kat version was only availiable in Europe. Not so with the Diablo. In the US, the stock '98 Diablo SV has done 1/4 mile in even 11.9 seconds, faster than even Quatroroute. Ask any one who has driven the cars, and you will find out that the '98 and '99 Diablo SV is faster than the Ferrari F50 beyond 60 mph.

    Another thing you also forgot to consider is that the Diablo is availiable with optional long gear ratios. R&T may be using these long gear ratios.

    Something that needs to be corrected, though is that the newer Viper GTS laps the nurbrurgring 1 second behind the Diablo SV: Viper GTS 8 min, 10 seconds, Diablo SV 8 min 9 seconds (not even sure if it was the new SV). But it is still apparently obvious that the Diablo is faster than the Viper or has better handeling, but probably both.

    Quatrouroute in fact got 1.10 g out of their Diablo GT. That is a fact. Another fact is that the US Diablo GT is no different than the European one. Even R&T got 0.99 g out of their Diablo 6.0, and you think the Diablo GT can not match that?

    When stating the "facts," be aware that other "facts" exist. You can like one car better than another, but the way you are comparing them is un-fair, and (no offence) pretty cheap. The Diablo is faster around a track and in the straits than a Viper GTS and a Z06.
     
  18. Christianmc

    i just seen the times of the SV around the ring and its like you said 1 second faster , but the Viper it says is a UK-Spec with 406 hp ?? and obviously no ABS, and the SV they arent sure if it has ABS i don't think that it does , but the Viper GTS is rated at 450 hp i don't know if the UK spec is de-tuned , but it says only 406hp, the Diablo GT is faster then the two , but again like i said 1 second isnt much especially considering its a UK spec with less horsepower, now i would lobe to see a US spec GTS and a 2002 Z06, i think they would be pretty good times. and notice NO F50s or Mclaren F1s i wonder why it would be the best palce for both cars.
     
  19. I'm getting my information from Quatroroute, Motor Trend and Evo magazine. R&T is known for making slower 1/4 mile and 0-60 mph times than most other magazines, especially when it comes to imported Italian supercars. Motor Trend went to Italy and tested the Diablo 6.0 strait from the factory (meaning they don't have to worry about upsetting private owners) and surprise surprise they did 1/4 mile times at 11.8 seconds (that's one performance spec I haven't said yet, at least). Had they used privately owned cars In the US I doubt they would have pushed it so much. R&T can get Vipers and Corvettes strait from the factory much easier and they can push them as hard as they want to.

    The Diablo SV I doubt would show it's best perfromance at a track like the Nurburgring. The Diablo has a high center of gravity (the basic design remains unchanged since 1990) and is pretty wide, which makes it not as ideal for the high speed narrow sharp turns of the Nurburgring (the small, light Porsche GT3 is THE ideal car for a track like that). Had someone Like Valentino, who is one of those famous expert crazy Italian Lamborghini drivers, driven the Diablo, I don't doubt it would be a problem for him. Despite that, the Diablo (most likely the '97 SV) still beat the Viper GTS. But nevertheless, like the Ferrari F40 the Lamborghini DIablo is better adapted for the wider tracks. I guarantee you the Viper will not be able to touch it there. And since when was better brakes for the Diablo considerred a vice?

    And how can you base your argument that the F50 was a dissapointment by the fact that R&T lists its performance as "na"? That tells you nothing. In fact, if anything it tells you that they know they weren't pushing the car hard enough. Did Road and Track ever say the F50 was a dissapointment? Nope. It's not as fast in a strait line as the F40. but it's much better in the turns. The 360 Modena is rated as being one of the best handeling cars in the world, and the ones who have also driven the F50 all say that the F50 has even better handeling.
     
  20. Your entitled to your opinion. But when you say something that goes against generally accepted fact (like the F50 doesn't handel well, the Viper GTS could beat a Diablo SV, etc.) you have to produce a lot more evidence than normal. You had a good argument on the top speed of Mclaren F1 because you quite a lot of evidence.
     
  21. Your entitled to your opinion. But when you say something that goes against generally accepted fact (like the F50 doesn't handel well, the Viper GTS could beat a Diablo SV, etc.) you have to produce a lot more evidence than normal. You had a good argument on the top speed of Mclaren F1 because you quite a lot of evidence.


    Its not my opinion , first of all i said the F50 don't handle as well as the Factory claimed and thats just a fact, i mean a Ferrari racer did all the tests on his personal F50 and the best it did around a skidpad is 0.95G and not the claimed 1.20 G , i mean you cant say he wasn't pushing the car because when he did the top speed test he reached 194 mph and that was at 8640 rpms thats 140 rpms into the redline, heres a quote about the Ferrari F50's handling from Car and Driver , remember a Ferrari race car driver was doing this test.

    " On the 300 foot skidpad, the F50 easily holds an understreering line with 0.95 g of grip , Try to hold the tail out for a lap ,however , and the car shows a predilection for oversteer that evokes a 180-degree spin. This is the same lateral stick that a all-wheel-drive 911 turbo can muster, buts its a fair whack behind the F-40's amazing 1.01 g, and again , the F50's performance is shy of the factory's claim of 1.2 g. More troubling , the car's rear tires, follwing four laps in each direction on the skidpad, emerge with a dozen dime-size blisters on each inner of tread , this is on a 60-degree day."

    heres another quote from Andy Evans at speed in the F50.
    " On the fourth lap , the F50s speed drops to 191.6 mph , and radiator coolant is fizzing out of the overflow vent,Evans stops , " Not exactly a WSC car out there ," he reports " It dances around a bit, but pulls right up to the redline."
    The F50s top speed is shy of an F40's by 3 mph. it is 8 mph below the factory's claim. it's also 4 mph beyond the 8500 rpm redline , a cardinal sin ,except when the test driver owns the supercar in question."

    Now is that is not proof i have NO clue what is, the best it could do is 0.95 G sorry to say any Viper GTS can better that and thats a fact.
    second seeing its top speed was in the redline by 4 mph and 140 rpms that makes its redline top speed of 190 mph, and i have seen a Viper GTS do 192 mph and thats just a fact.

    Now at first i said that GTS is faster then the Diablo SV in the 1/4 mile , i mean they tested the Diablo and it did 12.7@114.05 its that simple look at the differance in torque and where the peak torque is reached on the Diablo SV and the GTS .now torque is where your accleration comes from and lots of low end torque, the Diablo makes 448 lbs ft of torque which is a lot , but its making this peak torque at 5500 rpms thats very high in the rev-range, now the Viper GTS makes 490 lbs feet not to much more but that torque is avalible at just 3700 rpms , now i mean sorry to say thats just proof the SV's V12 likes to rev it makes it peak horsepower at 7100 rpms and the Viper GTS makes it at 5200, that why the Diablo has a higher top speed its a higher reving engine.and to boot the Diablo has a Gated shifter and thats NOT working for it in the 1/4 mile.

    And the Diablo GT was tested by a former Formula 1 racer as well as a Le Mans winner Paul Frere , i mean for you to say Road & Track doesn't push customer cars to the limits is just nonesense he reach its maximum speed 202.6 mph (326.0 km/h ) in 5th gear at 7500 rpms . if thats not pushing the car to its limits then i don't know what is,
    now if he pushed the car to its limits in the top speed why would he baby it in the skidpad? and the best it could do with a former Le Mans winner driving it was a 0.97 and a slalom speed of 61.5 mph. i mean thats not my opinion thats just a fact. and most of these cars they test are either from the factory or dealers , When they tested the EB 110 Bugatti provided the car , same with Jaguar they provided two XJ220s , RUF has always provided is own cars , Chevorlet shipped the Z06 to the VW test track where it was tested, Ferrari usally never sends a car so they usally come from a Ferrari dealer in Germany, and thats facts whether not you like them and not.

     
  22. First of all, the meaning of the "Variable-Valve Timing" is that more torque is availiable at low rpm. The '98 and '99 Diablo SV's are equiped with VVT. peak torque is availiable at 7100 rpm, but more than half of that is already availiable at 3500 rpm. Also, the '99 Diablo was timed for the 1/4 mile at 12.0 seconds @ 121 mph, so don't bother mentioning "12.7 seconds @ 114 mph" again. There's no point in continuing to argue with that. And the narrow, twisting Nurburging full of sharp turns is almost the Achillies heel of the super-wide Diablo, but despite all that it still had a better lap time than the Viper GTS. On any other track it would be much faster.

    (As evidence, the Diablo GT has equal and often better lap times than the Ferrari F50 on every track, but at the Nurburgring the F50 I've heard is way ahead of the GT)

    What you are suggesting about the Ferrari F50 is that the Viper has better handeling and is faster as well. If that were true, then wouldn't the Viper GTS have better lap times on all tracks? But that is simply not the case.To say that the factory claims are off is one thing, and that's understandable (still I don't know how that even came up in the first place). But here is an irrefutable fact: The F50 has better handeling than the F40, despite C&D tests. Ask anyone who has driven them. Despite the fact that the F50 is slower than the F40 in a strait line (and that was no accident; Ferrari intended that), it has better lap times on some tracks because of its superior handeling. That is saying a lot, considerring that the F40 is extremely fast in a strait line. Comparing lap times is much more reliable than comparing magazine tests done at different times.

    You are reporting the facts, but they don't mean anything if you don't know how to compare them with other facts. R&T tested the top speed for the Diablo GT at 202 mph, but that doesn't do any harm to the car. In fact, with Lamborghini's, the more you use the engine, the better the perfromance gets. That was the case with the Countach as well: they were in fact faster cars after several years of use; the marvel of great engineering. Besides, Evo magazine tested the Diablo GT and did 211 mph. But R&T are NOT going to push privately owned cars to the limit, as in doing harm to the cars (melt the tires at the start, take it to the extreme on the skid-pad, etc.) They WILL do that when they get cars strait from the factory. Yes, R&T did 0.97 g on the skidpad with the Diablo GT; that's a fact. But when Quatroroute got 1.10 g out of their Diablo GT that automatically is the correct figure. R&T got 0.93 g out of their 550 Marenello Barcheta, but Quatroroute got 1.08 g out of it, so that becomes the correct figure. Obviously Quatroroute is pushing their cars harder than R&T. I would not be surprised if they pushed the F50 harder as well. But for now, I wouldn't be parading that the Viper GTS has better handeling than the F50 if the only reason you believe that is because on two different, unrelated tests they got more g's. Every other fact about the cars (lap times for instance) shows otherwise. You can't just listen to one magazine and not another, and only choose to believe the facts that you like.
     
  23. Your clinging on to the Diablo GT is faster around the Nubergring then that means its a better handling car , your wrong that are many reasons why one car would be faster around the Nurbergring , one would be the driver , two acceleration, three top speed , four brakes ,five chassis set up,its NOT just handling and remember the Diablo GT has 125 more horsepower then the Viper GTS maybe that would be a factor ,and you quote Quatroroute times and there not even yours , i seen the Diablo GT Vs the 550 Maranello and both seem to have just a tad to high skidpad numbers , i mean were these cars on slicks??? i mean the GT did a 1.10 g ??? i mean get serious Road & Track tested The Champion Porsche 911 GT1 Race car in their September 1998 issue and with full race slicks it generated a 1.07 G , Oh thats right American Magazines don't push the cars even though Steve Millen was doing the driving , now are you gonna tell me that the Diablo GT tested in Quatroroute is better handling then a GT1 Porsche race car??? like it was posted before Laborghinis are not known as the greatest handling cars in the world and certianly NOT better then a Porsche GT1 race car.
    Now say Quatroroute is right and the Diablo GT does the skidpad in 1.10 g and its such a great handling car , why is it SLOWER around the Nurbergring then a Porsche GT2 ?? i mean the Diablo GT should destroy the Porsche GT2 because it does the skidpad in 1.10 g and the Porsche GT2 does it in 1.02 G , Oh wait the Diablo GT has more horsepower then the Porsche GT2 , lets see the Diablo GT has 575@7300 rpms to the Porsche 456@5700 rpms , wow why isnt it faster around the Nurbergring ?? it should be seeing the Diablo GT weighs 3200 lbs and the Porsche GT2 weighs 3350lbs.
    So that shows you its more then just great handling around ANY race track, and the Diablo SV did beat a Viper GTS by 1 second its again its NOT saying much for the Lamborghini considering the price and the fact it has 530 horsepower compared to the Vipers UK specs 406 HP.
    So lets recap shall we ? The Diablo GT is lighter , handles better , and has a lot more horsepower then a Porsche GT2 , and yet its slower around the Nurbergring?? and who said Lamborghinis cant handle?
    Now you can defend what this car can or can not do but i grow tired of proving you wrong,even with your owns facts.
     
  24. WHere did you get that the Diablo GT is lighter than the Porsche GT2? When they were weighed, the Diablo GT was in fact 200 lbs heavier than the Porsche GT2. Even the factory claims say the Diablo is heavier. I never said that because the Diablo has better handeling it had better lap time than the Viper. It’s more complicated than that, and I think you already know what I actually said. “Despite the Diablo’s size and width, which is not ideal for the Nurburgring, it still had a better lap time than the Viper.” The Diablo is much more impressive on more open tracks.

    Top speed doesn’t matter for anything at the nurburgring. Another thing: The Old, 510 hp ‘96 Diablo SV with no VVT beats the Porsche GT3 by far on other cuircuits; I have seen it for myself. However, the Nurburgring is best for light small cars like the Porsche GT2 and GT3, and is the Diablos week-spot. That said, it still beat the Viper GTS, and was most like the old ‘97 SV with 520 hp and no VVT! The Porsche GT3 made very good lap times because it fits the criteria perfectly, despite the fact that it is not very fast in acceleration or top speed. Handeling and size matters more than anything at the Nurburgring, and although the Diablo has fairly good handeling, it is pretty big. Just because the Viper GTS is 1 second behind the old ‘97 Diablo at the Nurburgring, don’t expect it to be on any other track, especially not a ‘98 or ‘99 SV!

    Quatrorout got 1.10 g out of their Diablo GT, but R&T got 1.02 g out of their Porsche GT2. You can’t compare those stats because they were done by two different magazines. The Porsche GT2 defiantely has better handeling than the Diablo GT, and that is why it has better lap times than the GT, despite the fact that it is slower. And your proving my point about g’s exactly: they don’t tell you directly which car has better handeling. Just because R&T got more g’s out of their Viper than their F50, doesn’t tell you the Viper has better handeling. In fact, Motor Trend says the 550 Marenenllo has a seemingly poor 0.93 g’s, but went 68 mph on the slalom! g’s are not the only determining factor for the turning ability of a car, and even slalom speeds don’t always tell you much. That’s why lap times are more important! On every other course than the Nurburgring the Diablo GT has equal lap times to the F50 and F40 (the F40 is not that great at the nurburgring either). But the Viper never comes close!

    This is fact which I have known all along:

    1.The Porsche GT2 and GT3 have better handeling than the DIablo GT, despite different tests done by magazines.

    2.The Ferrari F50 has better handeling than the Viper GTS

    3. The Diabo SV beats the Viper GTS even on its worst track, much more so on other tracks.

    What have you disproved with my own information? Absolutely nothing. Your saying a lot of things, some of them true, some of them not, but what are you trying to get at? What's your point? I won’t keep arguing for arguing’s sake, unless there is something you’re trying to get at. I'm getting tired of people who think they are clever enough to make a bunch of arguments that sound ok but don't mean anything, and think no one is smart enough to notice.
     
  25. I'm not going to bash you, "Scotti," but you need to do a little more reaserch on this one; you're way off. The Diablo SV does the 1/4 mile in 12.0 seconds @ 122 mph, tested by Quatroroute. And you say the Z06 and the Viper GTS handel better? Is that why the Diablo SV laps the Nurburgring (which is a big HANDELING track) 6 whole seconds faster than the Viper GTS?

    Now this is your first response to what i said about the Viper GTS going faster in the 1/4 mile then the SV , and that the Z06 and the GTS both handle better then the Diablo GT , now again tested by R & T the best a 99 Diablo SV did in the 1/4 was 12.72@114.05 mph now this is after experimenting with launch techniques and this was the best of all the runs it managed, now this is a fact you want to see the article buy Road & Track June 2000, now you said Quatroroute did it in 12.0@122 mph , now perhaps they did but they seem just a tad to optimistic with there numbers , such as the Diablo GT and a 550 Maranello doing a 1.10 g and a 1.07 g respectivly on the skidpad , now Road & Track tested the Champion Porsche GT1 race car in there September 1998 issue with Steve Millen doing the driving , mind you hes a race car driver not a road test editor, and with race slicks the best the Porsche GT1 Race car did was a 1.07 g , now there is NO way in hell Quatroroute is doing to get the same from the 550 Maranello and even better with the Diablo GT on street tires, its just NOT happening , so Quatroroutes numbers in my opinion are worth ZERO.

    Now this was your second comment.
    " And you say the Z06 and the Viper GTS handel better? Is that why the Diablo SV laps the Nurburgring (which is a big HANDELING track) 6 whole seconds faster than the Viper GTS? "
    now with this comment you were saying that the Diablo SV handles better because it lapped the Nurbergring 6 seconds quicker and its a big HANDLING track, and you were referring to the Diablo GT beating the Viper GTS , because the Diablo SV only beat it by 1 second, now my response was there is more to lapping a race track then just handling , its the total package , such as driver , handling , acceleration , chassis set up and brakes, NOT just handling because if that was the case and Quatroroute was correct about the Diablo GT doing a 1.10 g then it would be able to beat the Porsche GT 2s time , which leads me back to my original point that the Z06 and Viper GTS still handle better then the Diablo GT regaurdless if either laped a big HANDLING track slower.
    Now look in any car magazine and they all test the cars handling the same way through Maximum Lateral Acceleration G and the Slalom in mph, now the cars that generate the most lateral acceleration through the skidpad and the fastest mph through the slalom are the best handling , its that simple and with prefessional race cars driving thse cars to their limits guess what the Z06 and the Viper GTS are Better handling cars then the Diablo GT and the Ferrari F50, does that mean they could beat them around a race track NO , because like i said its the total package not just handling.


     

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