Re: Logical FACTS as to why a Honda is not powerful

Discussion in '2002 Honda Civic Type-R' started by EK Spoon, Aug 9, 2002.

  1. Your post was a good read.

    You'll notice I wont start with the ridiculous "f*ck you, you suck, i hate domestics, your a retard" etc etc kinda of garbage you see from most kids on these boards.

    Theres no point in arguing about power, but you formulated your argument around powerful in drag racing.

    unfortunately for you, your so closed minded you cannot factor other motorsports/type of driving into a reason/justification for engineering an engine in such a way.

    How about I race your V8 in my EK4 around Leguna Seca a few times?

    Its modified, just like your car, and I assure you I wont lose.

    Theres more to life than cylinders

     
  2. Nice reply.
     
  3. I track race my 98 Firebird Formula...it's been modified, but not too heavily, it's still a daily driver.

    Anyways, I've beaten a BMW Z8, and a handful of Porsche 911 Turbos.

    This is on a road course

    Just because its a muscle car doesn't neccasarily mean he can't run well on a roadcourse.<!-- Signature -->
     
  4. And just becuz a Civic has 4 cylinders, it doesn't mean it can't be a 10 sec car.<!-- Signature -->
     
  5. just remeber, any car can be fast, but each for different reasons and different amounts of money. try and read the whole origional "Logical FACTS as to why a Honda is not powerful" post (if u can, its longer than the dictionary!)and those points should be conveyed quite clearly
     
  6. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Josh6474</i>
    <b>I track race my 98 Firebird Formula...it's been modified, but not too heavily, it's still a daily driver.

    Anyways, I've beaten a BMW Z8, and a handful of Porsche 911 Turbos.

    This is on a road course

    Just because its a muscle car doesn't neccasarily mean he can't run well on a roadcourse.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    I didnt say muscle cars couldnt handle on a road course

    There are many more factors in your races like track conditions, the skill of the other drivers, tires, to disprove my argument

    "hey i beat a McLaren F1 and a Veryron 16-4 the other day. The drivers may have been five years old w/ blad tires but i still beat them."

    Get my point? Im not trying to flame you, but put the same pro driver in each car and compare lap times, thats how you determin a cars ability.
     
  7. Well I'm back for once. I haven't been paying much attention to the supercar forums lately.
    I read your argument saying to race you around laguna seca a few times and you guarantee you won't lose.
    Well maybe so, but I'd be right up behind you the whole time (my big tank of a car can actually grip very well through corners, it just oversteers a little bit).

    The other point I have to make is that your average boyracer on the streets who modifies his civic to be fast is not going to be a track racing expert. He's only gonna race people at traffic lights in a straight line, and that's the only reason he's gonna modify his car. I've seen many times on this forum references to videos of modified civics beating mustangs etc. These videos are always from the illegal street drags where the only skill involved is holding the steering wheel straight and depressing the accelerator, changing gears every once in a while. There's very few people who would actually take their on road pride and joy car onto a race track.

    I'd take my car onto a race track but only if it had no walls to crash into. I'd prefer some grass to slide out on. I wouldn't risk my car that much because I wouldn't call myself an experienced enough driver to handle a slide at over 100kmh.

    What I would go so far as to say however, is my experience reaches far enough that I could probably out drive the majority of little honda drivers.

    So in the context of the argument as to why a honda is not powerful, it's discussed in displacement/horsepower/torque terms where cornering is not a factor in the argument. Handling is not very important when drag racing in a straight line and my argument on here is in regards to why a car with a tiny motor can't be as potentially powerful as a car with a larger engine.

    If I wanted to argue about handling, I'm sure I could do some brief research and find many big V8 muscle cars that out handle a civic. (Saleen Mustang) etc.

    The point is moot, V8s and other larger displacement engines are better than the sub 2.0 litre engine under the hood of your average honda.<!-- Signature -->
     
  8. "sub 2 litre Honda engine"

    well, I think that "better" is a subjective, qualitative term and subject to interpretation. Perhaps "easier to modify" would be better.

    And you forget, if you put a v. lite engine with no torque, into a v. lite chassis (eg. like a motorbike) then you will get fabulous numbers.

    And for those who make the comment about comparing so called "crotch rockets" to cars: the Caterham Fireblade is a v. lite car, basically a motorbike on 4 wheels, (utilizing a Honda 900cc Fireblade engine) and again has great numbers.

    FOTR, the Fireblade engine makes

    <!-- Signature -->
     
  9. the fact is u have to do a lot to make civics half decent and ur better off gettting a car thats douple the price casue ur gonna have to spend just as much as the car is to make it "fast" and just becaseu its a 10 sec car doesnt make it good, power is nothing with out control
     
  10. I think thats total BS a firebird bear a BMW Z8 or a 996 TT on a road course. theres no way I would ever belive that, unless I saw it myself. I say the Z8 and the 996 TT must have had really bad drivers because stock, both of those cars would probly handle better than a modified firebird. do they even make suspensions for those cars?
     
  11. Well then, I guess your 5.6L V8 MUST be superior to the RA003 engine made by Honda Huh? it's only 2.something litres.


    BTW - the F20C is superior to just about ANY V8 out there for 4 reasons: 1) it's designed with pretty much the same concept as F1 engines, only on a smaller scale.
    2) It meets 2007 ULEV requirements (so far only 2 American cars achieve that, while EVERY single Honda does so)
    3) It provides more than adequate power for the car with that chassis weight to accelerate at exceptional speeds
    4) It's one of the most durable and reliable engines on the market today (I don't think North America has EVER produced a RELIABLE 2.0 litre engine, nevermind those V8's that break down within 10 years of coming from the factory)
     
  12. Yeh i agree with you. Civic's are A to B cars. They need alot to keep up with performance orientated cars.
     
  13. Well, considering an EF chassis DX can be made to run the 1/4 in 12.5 for under $9,000 (usd.) including the price of the car, I think that is considerably better (being less than 1/4 of the price) than the SVT Cobra's $37,000.
     
  14. I wasn't referring to the Mustang when i said'Peformance Orientated'
     
  15. But, below the level of the Corvette Z06, the Mustang SVT Cobra is pretty much the fastest V8 out there.
     
  16. 360 Modena, Hsv Gts, Maserati Coupe Gt, SL 55 AM, M5.
     
  17. Oh really? s'funny, I could've sworn that the HSV GTS ran 5.2 0-100, and 13.1 1/4. The SVT Cobra is faster than that.

    I also could've sworn that the M5 was capable of a fastest 0-100 of 4.8, and 1/4 of 12.9. The SVT Cobra is faster than that too.
     
  18. hoo hoo hoooeeeh i love these posts

    one i agree that most racers will just build their cars to go in a straight line not just on the street though( some hit the local drag strip) and nothing is wrong with that BUT dont say they modify their CIVIC dont say HONDA dont just say imports because 99% of domestics on the street are being built to go in a straight line while only about 70% of imports are being built to go in a straight line and they are damn good at it for having 4 cylinders.

    besides that point how long did it take domestics to hit 9's while in their overall drag career?? like 40 years with v8s while honda did it in about 3 with L4s

    ok now if you dont want to race into or near walls try autocross-its racing through cones set up like a race track for average drivers and if you dont want to go fast(which they dont built from stock usually with an incredible suspension and limiteed engine mods)you can race stock, almost any non-supercar stock can race.

    ok even more now i dont know how experienced of a driver you are(not enough to handle slides at 60mph) but you must be driving a domestic( you started a honda bash forum as i like to call them) but honda drivers even if driving for a year or two are very experienced if they are everyday drivers because hondas are more adjustable cars you learn to drive well faster in a honda/import or any good handling car. so from now on dont try and put yourself ahead of all honda drivers just some. and if you truly believe you are hit the track or autocross($20 a race and end of season 2g's)

    alright now the context of this thread was that tiny honda engines arent as powerful as v8s which they arent i TOALLY and COMPLETELY agree with you but look at it differently like you werent a fan of either domestics NEED v8s to run 9's 8's even 7's(not easy)but honda is running 9's with L4's if domestics NEED v8s to run 9's then if honda had a v8 they should be running 6's 5's 4's(holy shit i cant wait til honda make a v8) you might not agree with me your heads full of domestic love which there is nothing wrong with just try to think of it differently it WILL make more sense.

    any saleen will out handle stock civics but they're a bit pricy think about with the honda v8 or maybe even a L8 oohhh that would be SICK like MAD wow i wish though.

    finishing v8s will put out more power but are not BETTER than the little guys remember that v shape loses power thats why honda uses the inline 4 or nissans inline 6(SKYLINE GTR oooRB26DETTooo)and most civic or integras have 1.6 or 1.8 liter engines not 2.0 YET
     
  19. If the Cobra is quicker than Gts and M5 please explain how a modified civic is better??
     
  20. ok ill do that

    get me a rolling civic CHASSIS no engine and then a k20 block toss some domed pistons on it more durable rods new crank k24 head high flow injectors individual throttle bodies for each piston greddy turbo kit up to 20 lbs of boost it can handle it now with k24 heads on k20 block tein lowering springs some skunk2 control arms(youll need them) any high gripi tires of your choice and get ready to burn sum fools
     
  21. Yeh and how much would all of that cost? I would rather spend my money on a more expensive car and not worry about modifiying it.
     
  22. WHY?!?!?!

    the best part of a car is modifying it. i will try as hard as humanly possible for the rest of my life to modify every car i ever get.
    the chassis would be about $1500 at most maybe even with some nice rims( you dont want stock )rest of the mods would be about $7800-$8200 and im stretching it with 8200 so youd have a nice lightweight low 12 high 11 second car for $12000 bucks i say thats a good deal because with those springs control arms you can prob hit the track and run some good times if your a good driver. and $12000 for an 11 second street car is better than a $53000 12.7 second vette if it can even do THAT
     
  23. Either you're mindnumbingly stupid, or you didn't read my post, please read my post again.

    "Well, considering an EF chassis DX can be made to run the 1/4 in 12.5 for under $9,000 (usd.) including the price of the car, I think that is considerably better (being less than 1/4 of the price) than the SVT Cobra's $37,000"

    Getting an EF chassis DX to run the 1/4 in 12.5 (i.e. faster than ANY of those cars) for $9000 (i.e. cheaper than any of those cars), is much better than paying $37,000 to get the Mustang SVT Cobra that runs a slower time. All three of those cars are better, but going by what you said, "Yeh i agree with you. Civic's are A to B cars. They need alot to keep up with performance orientated cars." $9000, is considerably less than $37,000+ so obviously they don't need so much.


    Again, I never said it's a better car, I said that the performance for the price is better.
     
  24. Yeh but theres more to a car than 1/4 mile. You pay the extra money for the Cobra because of it's brakes and suspension and so forth. You can make the Civic run 12's for cheap but what about the rest of it's performance, IE. brakes, suspension, handling.
     
  25. Yeh but you can easily modify the other cars aswell. The other cars i mentioned are a step ahead of the Civic in terms of overall performance, interior and handling.
     

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