Re: Sad a Z06 can kill this

Discussion in '2002 BMW M3 CSL Concept' started by SpyderMan!, Aug 9, 2002.

  1. #126 camaroboy, Aug 11, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    i agree with you this arguement is going absolutely nowhere the zo6 guys are always going to say their right and the m3 guys ae always going to say their right and it doesn't really matter because none of them will change their minds (i know i won't at least untill i see proof that the csl is faster than the zo6 or visa-versa)these cars are very close and noone has really given anything for the csl beyond the typical it is faster because it isn't american philosophy and the most solid evidence that i have seen here (provided by me of course which i will repeat the csl laps around nurburgring 30 seconds fast er than the regular m3's 8:33-8:35 putting it at about 8:03-8:05 which is incredibly fast but zo6 has continuously matched and exceeded the porsche 911 turbo on road courses and the 911 turbo ran 7:56 at nurburgring. so IN MY OPINION the zo6 is at least a match for the csl and maybe its superior.nothing but opinions can be expressed about the csl because it still remains mostly a mystery and the zo6 has never run at nurburgring the regular c5 has been tested at nurburgring and has run as low as 8:36 which is a close match for the regular m3 and the zo6 is about 150lbs lighter and 60 HPmore powerfull than the regular the wheels and tires are much lighter than the regular c5 reducing the un sprung weight which does wonders for the handling it has tires that are a full inch (2.84 cm) wider at all 4 cornersthe suspension is more performance oriented and it has the best brakes of any production car (60-0 in 104 ft by autoweek i will post a link to a video) and the best tractioncontrol/stability control system in the world (EVO)its handling is considered world class by professional drivers.also the ls1/ls6 v8 is considerably lighter than you might think the block is aluminum and it has a plastic intakemanifold the pushrods are hardened hollow steel with sodium cores for weight savings the entire valve train on the ls6 engine weighs less than the m3 dual over head cams and i mean the camshafts only not the rest of the valve train which is the biggest problem with dohc engines and in a pushrod engine thevalve train sits loer than it does in a dohc engine where the 15 lb camshafts are at the top of the engine minutely raising the center of gravity which hurts handling a little bit the ls1/ls6 engiines are also compact all their weight savings that they have over other v8 engines make them much lighter even lighter than the average4.4 liter v8.including andy pilgrim (from uk)the zo6 has been tested to the chevrolet claimed 3.9 seconds and 12.4 in the 1/4 mile it pulls 1.01 g in the skidpad and does the slalom at 70.3 mph nly a couple of cars that have been tested by car and driver can match that (viper acr 70.8 in the slalom and '65 shelby cobra 427 sc 1.04 g on the skidpad)the m3 might be able to exceed the regular c5 but the zo6 is clearly a direct compettitor to the csl i would not be surprised to see a sub 8 minute lap at nurburgring if it is tested by a worthy driver the csl was tested by bmw which means factory driver and someone said the zo6 only tops out at 165 mph due to short gearing but it is actually a bit different the zo6 tops out at about 185 mph due to tall gearing it tops out in 5th gear it has a 6th gear but even the massive power of the v8 can't turn it over at speed (i would like that problem to be solved also the hp/liter thing is a measure of specific out put while efficiency is a measure of how well an engine burns its fuel compared to its power outputfor instance the zo6 averages 23 mpg (city + highway /2)and makes 405 HP and 400 tq so lets add the hp to the torque.and you get 805 now divide that by 23 and you get a number the higher the number the higher the efficiency. for instance the zo6 has an efficiency of 35 while the m3 has an efficiecy of 29.75. i say this is a good measure because it takes into account fuel efficiencyas well as hp and torque which both have a part in the vehicles acceleration thus the zo6 has a more efficient engine than the m3 but that doesn't by any means measure the engineeringof the car now for the reasons hp/l is not an effective way of seeing the efficiency of a car the list is kind of short but meaningfull

    1 the the bigger an engine is the harder it is to get high hp/l due to the exponentional nature of drag as a surface increases in size by four a factor of 2 the drag increases by a factor of 4.

    2 weight increases by at a level greater than drag for instance if you have a brick 3 inches by 5 inches and weighs 2 lbs it has a volume of 15 cubic inches if you increase its size by a factor of 2 it would now measure 6 inches by 10 inches and now has a volume of 60 cubic inchesthe same goes for engines .

    ok heres that site i spoke of earlier i know your going to say"of course it is going to be vette biased because it is a vette site" but that is not entirely correct watch the video recorded by autoweek a respectably magizine that is not biased
  2. camaro you are the man, after your post i dont see the need to post anything more, seriously man PROPS to you... PISS ON ALL YOU BMW lovers...

  3. How can a #$%#er that supposedly has a tight ass car like an Acura NSX be such a dumb #$%#er and like a piece of shit chevy. Chevy makes piles of worthless pieces of shit cars that have plastic bullshit dashboards, plastic dials and knobs, and vinyl shit seats made to light up marlboro reds in and #$%# your sister on. Any true knowledgable car critic has said that the camaro is a piece of shit and that the vette is only good cause its cheap. I wonder why its cheap cause its a FUCKIN ENGINE WITH SHIT SURROUNDING IT. German are #$%#in master engineers and i would take a Audi RS4 or BMW M3 over a vette any day. They make true engineering pieces of artwork and literally take a piss on any chevy. My opinion. Later
  4. hockey shut the hell up. Your not taking this arguement any where..And dont diss on American Car Brands just because americans dont like the pretty boy look and want sum muscle in our cars you dont have to be jealous
  5. #130 Dazzlarr, Aug 12, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    The Z06 keeps up with 911? the 911 your talking about is the GT3 that ran a 7:56 at nurburg.

    I was saying to the loudmouth WAY2FAST4YOU who just throws insults, and says he is fully loaded with more money then probably anyone on the forum to go prove the z06 is faster by running it around nubrurgring cause if his half as rich as he says then he should have no trouble affording it.

    where can I read about Z06 keeping up with "high end" 911 turbo's?

    admittatedly, the high end 911's are pricey. But they are unstobable.

    Except for the ALMS last year when BMW killed em all. But Porsche had a big cry and BMW pull out for this year. ( so much for bmw being shit WAY2FAST).

    Give us laptimes for a Z06 around some tracks. That is the only way to compare.

    Vette did very well and finished 13th in Targa Tasmania which was very impressive. (911's scored 1st + second). Although would be modded and penalties etc I dunno. the 1st place 911 had a 2 min penality.

    the laptimes for nurburgring

    quite a few M3's under 8.35. Unknown to what mods though. So not something to count with any conviction.

    unfortunately people put way to much emphasis on HP. 0-100(0-60), 1/4 mile.

    That doesnt automatically mean it'll be quicker around a track.

    e.g. the radical SR3 will kill m3 or z06 and only has 205bhp (dry weight 465kg). but it gets similar laptimes to F3 cars. (f3 being steppiing stone to F1). (banned from nuburgring races for being to quick).

    I would like to see a comparison done in a magazine around a track. CSL vs z06 vs std m3.

    the m3 always surprises.
  6. hah! funny, this isnt about being loaded, or having a nice car...which i do. However, the times around tracks only measure the ability of the driver inside the car. 1 driver can get a time that is way out of reach for any other driver.

    many other z06 fans and myself have posted numerous numbers however such as slalom, 0-60, and many other stats, along with links that prove that the z06 is faster than the STANDARD m3. now this csl is a great vehicle but how much more is it superb to the m3, with only 17 more horses and a lil over 100kg lighter, i dont think it is significantly faster.

    P.S. Id much rather have an NSX then a z06 or an m3
  7. I'd like to hear your reasoning on why you would prefer an NSX to an M3; according to Motor Magazine the NSX is bested by the current 911 Carrera, which, in turn, comes second to the M3. Your thoughts?
  8. in car and driver the 2002 zo6 has matched and beaten the 911 turbo (at the end of the supertuner challenge in september 2001) and this year (september 2002 in the supertuner challenge battle of the stockers the vette was leading until a slow 100-150 mph time killed it and the viper acr kept up too. you are right the gt3 did run 7:56 at nurburgring but look at the site you posted right below the gt3 is the 911 turbo 420 ps which also ran that is what you wanted to know right?
  9. The Z06 is a sweet car and it would kill the m3, not that it is a bad car or anything but the z06 is that much better.
    who is in
  10. if only some people (like way2fast4you) were banned from posting, these discussions would be much more civilized (watch him insult me, try to prove me wrong, or brag about his 'wealth' and 'culture' in his next post)...

    for all this arguing back and forth to have taken place, the cars must be pretty evenly matched (or we just have some loudmouths on this forum) any case, i think the tests by R&T prove that the M3 would win...
  11. Are you talking about straight line?

    straight line doesnt count for me. Not something I car about.

    Viper's are good straight line but have never impressed around a track.

    I need to do some more research into the Z06, I aint convinced yet.
  12. no im not going to insult anyone anymore, i just cant stand ignorance and i hate deletantes. I mean some people in here are so misinformed and yet try to force their point... the z06 abuses the m3 in every single category according to each and every single respectable source, R&T, Car and driver, and motor trend. this isnt much faster therefore its gets abused too.

    Now why would i take the nsx over a REGULAR m3 you ask?
    Its exotic, its VERY rare, and the engeneering is superb, meaning its very easliy tunable, its engine is not juiced out like the m3's. I love my NSX.
  13. Now why would i take the nsx over a REGULAR m3 you ask?
    Its exotic, its VERY rare, and the engeneering is superb, meaning its very easliy tunable, its engine is not juiced out like the m3's. I love my NSX.

    first, the NSX is no where near rare. I see at least 1 a week here (not includeing the one at work I see every day)

    second, the M3's engeneering is superb also

    thirdly, the M3's motor is not juiced out. Nowak did a NA tune on that motor and got over 400hp just from that, and they used no power adders.

    Fourthly, M3 weighs 3461 lbs, does 0-60 in 5.1, has 343hp and 269 ft-lbs., and seats 5

    NSX-T weighs 3159 lbs, does 0-60 in 5.1, has 290hp and 224 ft-lbs. and seats 2. costs more than M3

    Both cars have nearly the same size engine.

    NSX does not sound better in any catagory to me (all specs I've shown where taken from so if they are wrong and you can prove otherwise please do so.)
  14. How is it sad that a z06 can beat this it is a modified version of a car that is already considered powerful. I would pick this over a vette any day cuz vettes are #$%#ing ugly.
  15. first of all NSX is very rare, there are about 5-7 thousand units made per year, the m3 however is around 25 - 30 thousand units.

    Second of all yeah your numbers are SLIGHTLY off the m3 has 333 bhp does the 60 in 5.1

    the nsx at 290 does the 60 in 4.9, and handles better due to its MR configuration. OH NO IT DOESNT SEAT 5~! its a sports car fool
  16. #141 Dazzlarr, Aug 12, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    evo have a small article on z06 compared with a few cars. nsx was one of them.

    on their website.

    "road tests"

    "best of enemies".
  17. giving credit the nsx is a good car
    taking the link given in the last post:
    even evo agress by giving the nsx 5 stars and the z06 4 stars.
    if price is not an option, i'll take a second hand XJ220, over any of these cars.
    With a 3.5 v6 engine it kills the z06, the bmw and the nsx.
    almost every car on that list on evo the lister, lambourgini and mclaren with v12 engines.
    Of course price is an option.

    If this is a competition of who has a better 6.
    Jag wins with the xj200 engine.
  18. PLEASE dont mention jaguar, they have 1 super car and it too sucks, jag is just like bmw makes overpriced overrated 2 ton vehicles
  19. just read the GTS stats.
    if you're not happy with that, then compare the stats of your c5r and the Jaguar trans am and then tell me which one is better.
    end of arguement.
    Jaguar won the GTS class title deal with it, corvette didn't
    and the cobra isn't the best mustang, it's actually going to end up being the 3rd best by 2004 behind bosch and mach 1.
    so you have no idea what you talking about.
  20. only one? i dont think so. Has the Japanese make anything to match it? I dont think so.
    If we're going to argue, lets argue this.
    Who has the best 6 cylinder engine.
    i'm saying the xj200 is
    if not, prove me wrong.
    i rather pay $120k (ebay item price)for a second hand xj220, than $70k (evo price) for an nsx
    and i have every right to talk about jaguar here, cause at least its in the same class as BMW. not the overlarged v8 z06, nor an asian import
  21. XJ220 scored a 7.46 laptime around nurburgring.

    its one impressive car. Especially considering its age.

    xj220 was fastest car till the mclaren F1.

    price no object I'd take the mclaren f1 over it though. no question.

    oh yeah and the headlights are sweet when you see em pop out. Like a transformer.
  22. granted the F1 is a super car... but lets leave the comparison to cars with a 6. the mclaren has a v12, which just narrowly beated the xj220 in some respects.
    I even heard that this bmw may go over $100K
    people, thats a lot of money if that's true, because this car doesn't look like no real super car. May have super performance 6 cylinder... and even so, not even matching what Jaguar did way back in the early 90s with a 3.5 L 6 engine.

  23. Please do not post messages in here if you are completely retarded!!! I have to sift through 10 pages of gibberish and complete BS to read about 5 decent, thought provoking posts.
  24. OH NO IT DOESNT SEAT 5~! its a sports car fool

    bullshit, Ive ridden in one with 5 people, so yes it does seat 5 "fool"

    and the cobra isn't the best mustang, it's actually going to end up being the 3rd best by 2004 behind bosch and mach 1.
    so you have no idea what you talking about.

    do you have any proof of these fukin cars? I see all this shit you are talking about them and no evidance of thier existance. I know the Mach 1 is coming out and I have yet to see anything saying or showing it will be more powerful or faster than the cobra. Show some proof or just look like all the other shit talking jackasses on this site who are all talk.
  25. 2003-4 Mustach Bullit 400hp
    enough said

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