Re: *sigh* Americans...

Discussion in '2002 Porsche 911 GT2' started by Josh427, Aug 10, 2002.

  1. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from retsmah</i>
    <b>Whos idea was it to start compairing the Z06 and the GT2? I like both cars, a lot. Shouldnt the GT2 be compaired to cars like Ferraris and such? And shouldnt the Z06 be going up against cars in its price range, like the M3?

    Yeah, the Z06 is a nice car, but my accord could almost keep up with it, but if you spent the money you had left over on mods it could!

    Seriously, whoever started this comparison in the beginning should be slapped if they havent already slapped themselves.

    -retsmah</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE --> Your Accord can almost keep up? I think not. And you would have to put upwards of $70,000 into an Accord to make it as fast as a Z06.
     
  2. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Pantera</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Josh6474</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from SuPERkAJ</i>
    <b>Hehe what can I say... the Skyline would own the Z06 on a track.

    I dont even wanna give good reasons, that is just fact!

    Just as the Z06 beats the Skyline in looks..... its just like that!</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Would you care to explain how the underpowered, overweight Skyline would beat a Z06 on a track? Or anywhere for that matter.

    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    American cars usually have crappy handling.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->That's like saying that all Japanese cars are slow.
     
  3. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Lord Lucan</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Josh6474</i>
    <b>Well for one thing the Corvette is a damn good sports car, no matter how much you guys hate large displacement V8's, the Z06 is one of the best performers doller for doller you will find anywhere. You have to respect the cheap speed of some American cars.

    That said, I would like to turn to the comment, "American cars just can't keep up with Europeans". Well, have you heard of a car called the GT40? It happens to be a extremely fast car, capable of wasting ferraris(with the exception of the F50, but come on, its 650 grand more expensive than the GT40, and even then, the GT40 isn't that far behind it) and porsches on the strip and on the track. Just try and get your facts straight guys.

    Anyways, this porsche is one hell of a car. Very nice, looks good. Porsche is one of the best car makers ever.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Great idea-compare a supercar from the 60's to one from the 90's and cite price as the older car's advantage. Smart.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END Yeah, that is pretty funny how an American car from the 60s can outperform a new Ferrari. You'd think that for $200,000 you can at least get a European car that outperforms a "big, stupid, loud American car", but you can't. All you get is an equal performer with an interior to satisfy ANY gay fashion designer. QUOTE -->
     
  4. The #'s on this car are average among sportscars. It is no better than a Viper GTS or a ZO6. The Viper outhandles this(1.01 on the skidpad), and it is 0.1 sec slower 0-60. The kicker though, is its only $75,000 USD. The ZO6 outhandles both of these (1.03 on the skidpad), and its 0-60 is 0.1 or 0.2 slower than the GT2. Engineering on a Vette or Viper is pheonominal, being that the vette can perform like this for 1/3 the cost, could you imagine of they had the same budget as Porsche?!?!?! Even the Viper GTS is only $75,000 USD. Hennessey makes a phat production Viper that still costs less than this. Maybe you have heard of it, the 800 twin turbo ($150,000 USD), 0-60 in 2.4, low 10's/high 9's in the 1/4 mile, 237 mph, 1.05 on the skidpad? Oh yea, THE FASTEST PRODUCTION CAR IN THE WORLD!!!! Dont give us crap because your Euro-cars only have a name and not the #'s to justify $175,000, when an American PRODUCTION car kicks the crap out of this for $25,000 cheaper, and its nowhere near full potential. European engineering better than American, I think not by any means. <!-- Signature -->
     
  5. Excellent post dusty427. I'll take #'s over prestige any day. Besides, if you want prestige at the track, you want the #'s anyway. It seems that many of these posts disregard these #'s completely. I'm not just talking about mpg, but speed also. Many of these #'s are right here on this website. How can people be so ignorant? Have these people ever read a car magazine or do they just assume that "nouveau riche" prestige is the same thing as speed? How many of you actually participate in racing? Autocrossing is mainly handling and power has less relative importance. The Super Stock class is the highest stock class and it's dominated by Corvettes, not Porsches. This is probably not true in places where the Corvette is rare but they are totally dominant here in the U.S. It's not because of patriotism. Most Americans think that Porsches are faster but racers have enough experience to know you need a Corvette to win. It seems hippocritical for someone to complain about being accused of arrogance after they started this whole argument by suggesting that you have to be blinded by patriotism to believe that the Corvette is a better car.
     
  6. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>OH NO! WHAT HAS HE DONE!</i>
    <b>Someones just given us ausies a bad name...</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE --><!-- Signature -->
     
  7. A few points/questions.
    What, in price terms would the Z06's competitors be?
    There are two types of car comparisons - those similar in price and those similar in specification/design brief (eg. top-performance sports car).
    It was not me who started the comparison between the GT2 and the 'Vette, I did start this thread however and it has gotten more response than I expected.
    I am not complaining about being called arrogant, a bigot or anything like that - couldn't care less.
    Dusty 427 - why does the Viper you quote need 8.0lts, 10 cylinders and two turbos for it's performance? Perhaps you are right in saying that it is not at it's full potential as I would think the same figures could be achieved with less.
    How many of you are willing to admit that if you really wanted to, you could get a low-cost, high-performance Jap car (eg. Evo lancer), and modify with it for better performance than the 'Vette? I am not going back on my opinion stock cars should be compared with stock cars but a lot of people seem to think that moded cars are still a fair comparison - so try that one.
    Why haven't other manufacturers taken the adoption of massive engines and blowers on them?? American style of automotive performance I dare say - bigger is better and that is the truth - It's not. I also wouldn't take the numbers of cars juust from Supercars.net - some are flawed and there are so many factors that affect the outcome it would be fool-hardy to just go on one set of figures.
    'Vette's and Vipers obviously have their place on the road as they do in racing, as do European exotica. 'Vettes are good at some races, not others just like every other manufacturer has their good and bad points. Take Porsche's unchallenged LeMans record.
    I am not blinded by patriotism or anything else and because of that I realise the GT2 is the better car.
     
  8. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from My911Turbo</i>
    <b>A few points/questions.
    What, in price terms would the Z06's competitors be?
    There are two types of car comparisons - those similar in price and those similar in specification/design brief (eg. top-performance sports car).
    It was not me who started the comparison between the GT2 and the 'Vette, I did start this thread however and it has gotten more response than I expected.
    I am not complaining about being called arrogant, a bigot or anything like that - couldn't care less.
    Dusty 427 - why does the Viper you quote need 8.0lts, 10 cylinders and two turbos for it's performance? Perhaps you are right in saying that it is not at it's full potential as I would think the same figures could be achieved with less.
    How many of you are willing to admit that if you really wanted to, you could get a low-cost, high-performance Jap car (eg. Evo lancer), and modify with it for better performance than the 'Vette? I am not going back on my opinion stock cars should be compared with stock cars but a lot of people seem to think that moded cars are still a fair comparison - so try that one.
    Why haven't other manufacturers taken the adoption of massive engines and blowers on them?? American style of automotive performance I dare say - bigger is better and that is the truth - It's not. I also wouldn't take the numbers of cars juust from Supercars.net - some are flawed and there are so many factors that affect the outcome it would be fool-hardy to just go on one set of figures.
    'Vette's and Vipers obviously have their place on the road as they do in racing, as do European exotica. 'Vettes are good at some races, not others just like every other manufacturer has their good and bad points. Take Porsche's unchallenged LeMans record.
    I am not blinded by patriotism or anything else and because of that I realise the GT2 is the better car.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    The bigotry continues.

    Gee, what a shock? Someone who attacks Americans with bigotry believes that the American car is inferior. Whoda thunk it? The accompanying picture is one that I took at Limerock in July 2001. It's a 908/3 with some interesting history. The blue one on the other hand, has a far more significant history. This was one of the greatest gatherings of Porsche race cars and their drivers ever seen! And if turbos are so great and large multicylinder engines so bad, then why is Porsche putting a normally aspirated 5.5L V-10 in it's upcoming road going supercar?<!-- Signature -->
     
  9. My911turbo, American engines have a tradition of being big, as it was the only country after WWII, whose citizens could really afford big cars with relatively good performance, and the gasoline this concept consumed. These big cars needed engines of 300-400 hp to move quickly, so their engines were also built big, 6-7 liters. Europeans and the Japanese could only afford small cars with small engines, which accordingly were better on gas. Better on gas due to they were lighter and less powerful, not because they were technologically more advanced. Usually on the contrary, in fact. And the American engines were big, as it was (and still is) better to make reliable power by simply increasing the displacement.

    This is still seen today - Americans have the capabilities (production lines and tooling) to cheaply mass produce large engines, which are very powerful by nature. European / Japanese have the basic tooling for smaller engines, so theyŽve had to made the "sport" versions rather artificially from the econo blocks by revving them up, or lately adding them turbos. And itŽs evident, that even today itŽs better to choose the engine size according to the power. This is clearly seen from the numbers, which have been discussed previously. And by the way, the numbers are accurate enough. Just that they donŽt fit to prejudgement, doesnŽt make them untrue.

    Yes, Mitsu Evo can probably be modded to outperform a stock Vette for the less price, though simultaneously throwing away the factory guarantees, compromising the reliability and still well possibly failing to get the wanted results in many cases. And youŽd still be driving a bore-looking Lancer, but oh well, itŽs a matter of taste. Interesting, however, have you thought that if the modded Evo outperforms the stock Vette, it also outperforms the GT2. And with less than VetteŽs price. If it compromises the Vette, doesnŽt it make the GT2 and other "true" supercars as the utter pieces of crap?
     
  10. Americans cant make engines? You should do less research on porsches, which you assume you know alot of and do more research on American cars and engines. The fact is that Americans are outselling european cars even in your own turf. Anyhow the Saleen SR5 Mustang outperformed, outhandled your precious GT2. Nothing against the porsche because I personally like them. But your european car was raced against the American Saleen Mustang SR5 in the race track and on the straight way. And the price tag is less then the porsche. Oh yeah..I know what your thinking....it doesnt have the styling of the porsche...I'll throw you a better figure...Saleen S7. The point is that no matter what you come up with as your idol to european supremacy, I and many others will counteract your choice with something of similarity or even better..NUFF SAID.
     
  11. you guys are funny
     
  12. I FEEL YOUR PAIN
    dont sweat it though its an american thing
    you cant tell em shit and they think there the best thing to ever come on gods green earth, i know i live and work with them everyday but its not all that bad, its kinda cool and not all of them are like that some are cool and can be objective, but hey you cant take that from them though its what makes them american. plus if the corvette is so good how come everyone who can afford it goes and buy the ore expensive import GTs and sports cars, and so quickly forget what "a great car the corvette is"
    shit i like the corvette dont get me wrong but comparing it to a porsche cmon you must be out your #$%#in mind.
    wake up fellas
     
  13. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from SnikwaD</i>
    <b>I FEEL YOUR PAIN
    dont sweat it though its an american thing
    you cant tell em shit and they think there the best thing to ever come on gods green earth, i know i live and work with them everyday but its not all that bad, its kinda cool and not all of them are like that some are cool and can be objective, but hey you cant take that from them though its what makes them american. plus if the corvette is so good how come everyone who can afford it goes and buy the ore expensive import GTs and sports cars, and so quickly forget what "a great car the corvette is"
    shit i like the corvette dont get me wrong but comparing it to a porsche cmon you must be out your #$%#in mind.
    wake up fellas</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Why the bigotry?<!-- Signature -->
     
  14. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from My911Turbo</i>
    <b>What can I say?
    There are far too many people around here who need to get their hands off it. In one corner we have one of the worlds greatest cars - a GT, sports car and supercar all in one. It has a twin turbo 3.6lt twin turbo flat 6 and it comes from a brand that is recognised all over the world.
    In the other corner we have our 'Vette Z06 a great car with a 5.7lt V8, naturally aspirated and the figures to back it up.
    What strikes me though is that despite the price difference, there seems to be a lot of people on this board who, if the cars were the same price, would take the Z06 anyway, despite it being the inferior machine.
    I make no apologies for saying it's inferior because, well, it is. Patriotism is entered into these discussions far too much and it blinds what MIGHT otherwise be good, automotive judgement.
    Here in Australia we don't get 'Vette's unless they are private imports but GT2's do come our way.
    We have our own cars made here that use the LS1 (look up HSV's on this site) and they are great cars but no-on here presumes them to be better than Porsche's.
    One final thing: just because the GT2 isn't using the antique, pushrod engine design, doesn't mean it's a girls car - this is a man's machine, a thoroughbred through and through - Porsche (and most other automotive companies) have just discovered what you Americans have either missed or rejected - intelligent, technical engine design.
    You can argue the point if you wish (you'll lose) but in the end it's results that tell the story - and the GT2 delivers them everywhere - in spades.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    How is the Corvette an inferior machine even if it matches the performance numbers for less cost?<!-- Signature -->
     
  15. A Z06 outrunning a GT2 is pure stupidity<!-- Signature -->
     
  16. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from TechNspeed</i>
    <b>A Z06 outrunning a GT2 is pure stupidity</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Do you realize how important the driver is? I've seen a Corolla beat a 911 turbo, and the 911 turbo driver was pretty good. If Michael Schumacher was driving a Z06, the GT2 would need a world class driver to win. That's how close these cars are. The Z06 might even be the faster car on a track like Lime Rock, where the turns are fast and the straights are short. Did you know that the Z06 has gone head to head with the 996 turbo twice? The Z06 was 2 sec./lap quicker both times. In one of the tests, the Porsche driver was none other than Hurley Haywood himself. 2 sec./lap is huge.<!-- Signature -->
     
  17. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from SRB The Punisher</i>
    <b>Hmmm..that is very true. Porshces are basically colletors cars unless you talk bout the Boxster.

    As for making an American car that costs the same as a Porsche...well a Vette or Viper in that case..I'm note quite sure who will win that one.
    If you look @ the US cars, they are front engines, RWD cars. Porsche is Mid ro Rear engined and RWD car.
    In terms of weight distribution, the Porsche has the advantage.

    If you look @ engine terms. The Porsche has Turbos...which means turbo lag..(not much though..trust me..me driven a 2001 911T).
    Also, the Porshce lacks in torque.
    The US cars have large engine..but valvetrain is lower tech, but reliable. They also have shitloads of torque from around 2000rpm to 6500rpms. But US have lower redline dude to pushrod design. So if you looks @ it..acceleration is quite equivalent due to Turbo Lag for Porsche, and Low rev only for US. The thing is if US cars change to a DOHC or Quad CAM system with 4 or 5 valves per cyl..or dun even change from the 2 valve per cyl, they will get a hell of a lot more power and top speed.
    The only thing that is preventing the US cars from reaching better top speed is the pushrods...change them and you're fine.

    The only disadvantage of the US cars is the constant handling =) The Porsche is built to be race ready..and all hand built.
    The Vettes have less balance due to weight distribution.
    If they made a mid engined Vette with DOHC and a lil more tech, I am not afraid to say it will whoop ass! =)

    But I will say is that I would drive a Z06 Everyday...but the GT2 will be for weekends and fun =)

    DA PUN
    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    The Corvette has better weight distribution.<!-- Signature -->
     
  18. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from DiecastDomain</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from My911Turbo</i>
    <b>What can I say?
    There are far too many people around here who need to get their hands off it. In one corner we have one of the worlds greatest cars - a GT, sports car and supercar all in one. It has a twin turbo 3.6lt twin turbo flat 6 and it comes from a brand that is recognised all over the world.
    In the other corner we have our 'Vette Z06 a great car with a 5.7lt V8, naturally aspirated and the figures to back it up.
    What strikes me though is that despite the price difference, there seems to be a lot of people on this board who, if the cars were the same price, would take the Z06 anyway, despite it being the inferior machine.
    I make no apologies for saying it's inferior because, well, it is. Patriotism is entered into these discussions far too much and it blinds what MIGHT otherwise be good, automotive judgement.
    Here in Australia we don't get 'Vette's unless they are private imports but GT2's do come our way.
    We have our own cars made here that use the LS1 (look up HSV's on this site) and they are great cars but no-on here presumes them to be better than Porsche's.
    One final thing: just because the GT2 isn't using the antique, pushrod engine design, doesn't mean it's a girls car - this is a man's machine, a thoroughbred through and through - Porsche (and most other automotive companies) have just discovered what you Americans have either missed or rejected - intelligent, technical engine design.
    You can argue the point if you wish (you'll lose) but in the end it's results that tell the story - and the GT2 delivers them everywhere - in spades.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    "FIRST POST, FIRST STRIKE!!"

    If you've come here to compare, please DO NOT compare apples to oranges. Your post made no sense.
    The Z06 is an American Sports car, the 911 GT2 is an exotic racer. NOT in the same class (price or otherwise) even though I still think that the Z06 would lose, but give the GT2 a run for it's money. It would have to work at it's victory. It would not easily win.

    It is a well known fact that vehicles overseas need the turbos, superchargers, & so on to even keep up with your so called "antique, pushrod engine design". DOES NOT say much for your "Man's machine".

    Have some respect.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    no the vehicles overseas put on turbos and superchargers to not only keep up with your so called "antique, pushrod engine design" but to beat them and most of them do beat them
     
  19. ok look both the zo6 and the gt2 are awesome cars. the gt2 looks a whole lot bette ill agree but this is SPUERCARS>NET so lets not get into looks. as for performance you cant say that either of these two cars will kill each other untill theyve raced the specs for performance are almost the same. the both have the same 1/4 time and the same 0-60 time. the porsch has more hp but not a whole lot more. for a company to be able to get that type of performance out of a f6 is impressive. theres no doubt about that. but lets stop bashing two cars that clearly are great cars. there is no need for it. they both have their ups and Downs, what car doesnt? i love corvettes and i hope to own one saomeday but i also like porsches and hope to own one of them one day too. so lets get over our petty differences and quite acting like little kids
     
  20. just weigh up the costs...

    assume you have $180K to spend

    do you want to buy the GT2?

    or a Z06 and then spend $135k on mods for it.

    or a Supra and spend $142K on mods for it.

    I am using the cost figures off this website, so I apologise if they are wrong.

    Personally, Z06 gets my vote of the above 3 options.
     
  21. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from ReeK</i>
    <b>just weigh up the costs...

    assume you have $180K to spend

    do you want to buy the GT2?

    or a Z06 and then spend $135k on mods for it.

    or a Supra and spend $142K on mods for it.

    I am using the cost figures off this website, so I apologise if they are wrong.

    Personally, Z06 gets my vote of the above 3 options.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    You start with a better car, you end with a better car. If you bought a Z06 and put 124K into it, and then took a GT2 and put 124K into it, which do you think would win? Lets be fair now. The supra isn't even an option becuase it's way out of it's league.

    <!-- Signature -->
     
  22. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from mpg</i>
    <b>There are plenty of negative things to say about Porsches:
    1.) Turbo engines have poor throttle response. The F1 boys used to say that 500 normally aspirated hp was worth 600 turbo hp. Even more at Monaco. Any engineer in any country will tell you that added complexity isn't necessarily a good thing.
    2.) Turbo engines are thirsty. I realize that most sportscar enthusiasts don't care about the environment, but it's a much better measure of engineering prowess than fit and finish. It also matters in racing.
    3.) Arch shaped cars have bad aerodynamics. If Bernoulli's Principle is wrong, then how do airplanes fly?
    4.) 63% of the weight on the rear wheels adds up to danger. Purpose built race cars are almost always midengine, not rear engine. Enzo Ferrari didn't even think that midengine cars belonged on the road.
    5.) It's tall.
    6.) A shorter wheelbase REDUCES stability.
    7.) If you don't believe 1 through 6, then have a look at the Carrera GT. Porsche is finally showing what they've always been capable of. They're building a road car that matches the caliber of their race cars. The only reason they didn't do it sooner is that Porschephiles have always enjoyed the nostalgia of "the people's car". They tried to break away from that with the 928, which was the only thoroughbred that Porsche ever built. It was 100% Porsche but the consumers rejected it because it was untraditional. Let's hope they have better luck with the Carrera GT. It's a beautiful car. Hopefully Porschephiles can finally see past "the people's car". I know Porsche can.

    P.S. If you examine all the data on these two cars, you'll see how foolhardy it is to try to predict which one would win on the track. Since the GT2 is intended for the track, wouldn't it be more fair to compare it to a Z06 with minor suspension mods?

    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    A few things, friend......

    1. Porsche is not "The People's Car". In German, the word for People is 'volk' and the word for Car is 'wagen'. In the 1930's, the National Socialist Party decided that there should be a car that all people of Germany could afford. I'm sure you know this, but at the end of the first world war Germany experienced massive stagflation in the economy and all the German financial markets collapsed. Only the richest, most powerful families in Germany could afford to buy cars. As their popularity grew, one of the things that the National Socialists did to increase public opinion was to commission a car that every person could afford. They called it The People's Car.....The Volkswagen.

    2. Bernoulli's principal works on the basis that air moving over the curved upper surface of an airfoil has farther to go to than the air moving over the flat lower surface of that same airfoil. Since the air moving over the top has farther to go, it naturally has to go faster, and thus creates a low pressure area above the wing, and the aircraft is drawn upwards. Now if you look at a cross section of a wing, you'll notice that the tapered end is always the trailing edge, that is that the fat part of the wing is at the front. If you look at the side profile of an Porsche, you'll notice that the end which appears to taper is the front end. For Bernoulli's principal to and adverse effects on the aerodynamics of a Porsche, you would have to drive it backwards. In effect, you are wrong.

    3. Turbo lag has all but been eliminated in new cars. Aside from the fact that Porsche spoolers are small enough to create what can be considered only minimal lag by any standard, Porsche utilizes small electric motors that begin spinning the spooler before the exhaust fumes are strong enough to do so themselves. This eliminates lag altogether in Porsche cars.

    4. While I myself have yet to understand why Porshe uses a rear mounted engine configuration for any other reason than tradition, it has been proven that once you learn how to drive a Porsche, cornering capabilities are not at all compromised. Rather, Porsches unique design is credited as one of the best handling cars in the world.

    Cheers!
    <!-- Signature -->
     
  23. Why in the world is everybody talking about the Z06.
    If you take a Lotus Elise for 35.000 US-$ and put a Twin-Turbo in for 10.000 US-$ (this has been done) you have a car that will beat the Z06 but no-one cares.
    Supercars are not about being cost efficient, the GT2 is not 150.000 $ because of material cost, but to make it rare. They could build it for half the price and sell twice as much but (in Germany) there are already too much Porsches on the street.
     
  24. Dear Wheelman,
    Thank you for informing me about the elimination of turbo-lag in Porsches. This wasn't mentioned in any of the articles that I've read about the GT2. Where did you find that? The rest of my comments still stand. I know that Volkswagen means "people's car" in German. I was merely saying that the 911 still resembles the Beetle because of tradition, not because it's good for a sportscar to be arch shaped or have a rear mounted engine. Regarding Bernoulli's Principle; this is a problem with all cars. It's true that airplanes wings are thicker in the front, but this isn't necessary to create lift. It's probably done to reduce drag or to maximize lift. The distance that the air travels over the top is always greater than underneath a car. This is the essence of Bernoulli's Principle. The effect can be reduced. If you look at the back end of most sportscars (including the Corvette), you'll see that they sweep upward rather than downward like the 911, Beetle and Audi TT. This can be countered by addons such as wings ofcourse. I realize that the GT2 produces downforce at speed, rather than lift, but isn't it better to not create a problem in the first place, rather than create it and correct it? Even without turbo-lag, a turbo engine is still a disadvantage because of fuel consumption and the fact that you're forcing a small engine to do the work of a big engine. The Carrera GT is the strongest evidence of my remarks. If you reply, please address this. Thanks Wheelman. Peace.<!-- Signature -->
     
  25. The Porsche Design is ugly but EFFICIENT.
    Anybody here saying the form of the 911 would interfere with Bernoullis Effect has no idea. B.effect applies to all cars since they all have a rather smooth underbody while the upper part is always complex with the driver's cabin and so on.
    The 911 does however uses the Fastback-effect with its roofline continued in one line to the rear, as does the Z06. The Corvette Coupe e.g. has the 3-part structure with engine cover, driver's cabin and trunk. The air will here flow over the engine cover, go over the roof but won't sink for the trunk and therewith leave turbulences in the back, increasing drag.
     

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