# Re: The 18/4 engine doesn't exists...

Discussion in '2000 Bugatti 18/4 Veyron Concept' started by deuginthesky, Aug 9, 2002.

1. #26
Either you mistyped 4 or your math skills are horrible.
18/3=6, not 4.5
18/4=4.5
I agree that the engine is 3*6 cyl.
4 only means 4 valves per cyl.
Some people said it's possible to have a 4-5-4-5, it is, but that doesn't make much sense.

2. #27
Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
This was my post from another forum it might help.

The idea that 3 inline 6's are correct. Look at the vw "w8 engine" and add more cyliders and you will get the idea.

basically they are saying

source to explain:

http://www.geocities.com/gkurka2001/CarTech/tech_engine_packaging.htm

Copy and Paste From Source:

W18 engine
As 18 is not dividable by 4, you know the W-18 is not derived from VR engines. In fact, it follows the old Audi philosophy of mating 3 banks of 6-cylinder, running the common crankshaft. The drawback is : Among the 3 banks there are 2 large Vee angles. My estimation is 60Â° each, hence a total of 120Â°. For comparison, the W16 is just 15/2 + 72 + 15/2 = 87Â°, therefore the W-18 is a lot wider. In terms of length, the W16 has the same length as a VR6, that is, about the length of 4 and a half cylinder. The W-18 is as long as an inline-6.
As seen in the photo, the W-18 used by Bugatti EB-218 concept car is very big and complex. Two of the banks mate like a conventional 60Â° V6 while the remaining bank lays down to horizontal level. Complex induction manifolds and exhaust pipes run between the banks. (note that the exhaust pipes were not fitted to this prototype, otherwise it would have looked even more complex.)

Obviously, W-18 is not as clever as W-16. Although there is no problem of fitting in the jumbo Bugatti saloon, I must question its purpose. Is it more powerful than a V12 can achieve ? No. Is it smoother than the theoretically ideal V12 ? No. Is it shorter than a V12 ? No. Is it narrower than a V12 ? On the contrary. Is it cheaper to be built ? Never. Is it more spectacular to the riches ? Yes.

How easy the internet can be
step 1: Post topic about engine
step 2: Guess on how it is built
step 3: read posts on how people think it is built
step 4: open alternate internet browser
step 5: go to www.google.com and search w18 engine
step 6: get a definite answer by engineers and professionals.

3. #28
according to road and track (for the 16/4 at least) the 4 stands for all wheel drive
and my guess would be that its a v10+ a v8

4. #29
Quote from vacanyols "axctually I dont know if you noticed but its not 3 engines.. in that case its a 18/3 veyron or chiron you talking about... this is a weird concept and its cause its an 18 / 4!! conccept ..but dont try to divide 18 into 14 cause it wont work.. think about it this way... the fiat coupe turbo... has 20 valves.. why??cause its a V5 engine... I hope you understand that ...it makes posible to build 18 cilinders in 4 blocks as stated in the title of this post..

so you can have 2 v5 engines and 2 v4 engine..

=O=O=O=O
O=O=O=O=O
O=O=O=O=O
=O=O=O=O

THIS IS A NICE LAYOUT OF A POSIBLE CILINDER FORMATION (overlooked)
now..I set the bigger blocks in the middles cause they probably fit better since the sides is near the tires wich are already big azz tires "

ther you have it

u mean 2 i5s and 2 i4s
a v5 means an i2 on one side and an i3 on the other

5. #30
Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
6. #31
Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
The idea that 3 inline 6's are correct. Look at the vw "w8 engine" and add more cyliders and you will get the idea.

18/4 stands for 18 cylinders 4 valves per cylinder. not 4wd because they have a 18/3 and it is retarded to make a 3 wheel drive car
stop argueing the engine does exist and it is 3 rows of 6 definatly.

source to explain:

http://www.geocities.com/gkurka2001/CarTech/tech_engine_packaging.htm

Copy and Paste From Source:

W18 engine
As 18 is not dividable by 4, you know the W-18 is not derived from VR engines. In fact, it follows the old Audi philosophy of mating 3 banks of 6-cylinder, running the common crankshaft. The drawback is : Among the 3 banks there are 2 large Vee angles. My estimation is 60Â° each, hence a total of 120Â°. For comparison, the W16 is just 15/2 + 72 + 15/2 = 87Â°, therefore the W-18 is a lot wider. In terms of length, the W16 has the same length as a VR6, that is, about the length of 4 and a half cylinder. The W-18 is as long as an inline-6.
As seen in the photo, the W-18 used by Bugatti EB-218 concept car is very big and complex. Two of the banks mate like a conventional 60Â° V6 while the remaining bank lays down to horizontal level. Complex induction manifolds and exhaust pipes run between the banks. (note that the exhaust pipes were not fitted to this prototype, otherwise it would have looked even more complex.)

Obviously, W-18 is not as clever as W-16. Although there is no problem of fitting in the jumbo Bugatti saloon, I must question its purpose. Is it more powerful than a V12 can achieve ? No. Is it smoother than the theoretically ideal V12 ? No. Is it shorter than a V12 ? No. Is it narrower than a V12 ? On the contrary. Is it cheaper to be built ? Never. Is it more spectacular to the riches ? Yes.

How easy the internet can be
step 1: Post topic about engine
step 2: Guess on how it is built
step 3: read posts on how people think it is built
step 4: open alternate internet browser
step 5: go to www.google.com and search w18 engine
step 6: get a definite answer by engineers and professionals.

7. #32
dude i got an idea why dont we ask an professional?

8. #33
well I am pretty sure it is the same engine in the EB118 which it says is 3 rows of 6. and if the engine does not exist why would they make a car for a nonigexistance engine.

9. #34
The Bugatti W-18/3 engine was a three-bank engine. The W-18/4 is a four-bank engine.

An engine with four banks of cylinder and a total of 18 can still be built even though 18 doesn't divide evenly by four for the same reason that VW can make a V-5 engine.

Consider two things.

First, take a look at the VW/Audi W-12 engine already in production. It is two narrow V-6 engines joined to a common crankshaft.

O=O=O
O=O=O
----- (crankshaft)
O=O=O
O=O=O

Then, consider VW's V-5 engine design which has also been produced.

O=O=O
-----
=O=O=

If VW could make a V-5, they could also make a V-9 using a similar design.

O=O=O=O=O
---------
=O=O=O=O=

Now, consider that they paired two mirrored V-9 engines to a common crankshaft as they did with the two V-6s to make a W-12. The result would be a W-18 with four banks of cylinders...

O=O=O=O=O
=O=O=O=O=
---------
=O=O=O=O=
O=O=O=O=O

Think if it as a narrow-angle V8 nested within a wider V-10 but with a common crankshaft. Both a V-8 and a V-10 are stable configurations on their own, they would remain stable when paired like this.

The disadvantage of this design over a W-16 (two V-8s in parallel) is that the engine has to be as long as the ten-cylinder bank and so there is really nothing gained by having one pair of banks shorter than the other. In other words, if a W-16 isn't powerful enough, go for a W-20. A W-18 is an unnnecessary compromise.

p.s. it is pointless to try to pretend that the "4" in the "18/4" designation is anything but the number of cylinder banks. It isn't the number of valves per cylinder as (modern) Bugattis use five-valve heads.

10. #35
Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
------------------------------------------
IcE_bLÃ«U wrote:

This was my post from another forum it might help.

The idea that 3 inline 6's are correct. Look at the vw "w8 engine" and add more cyliders and you will get the idea.

basically they are saying

source to explain:

http://www.geocities.com/gkurka2001/CarTech/tech_engine_packaging.htm
------------------------------------------

The article you cite doesn't help at all because it doesn't refer to the engine in the Veyron 18/4. It refers to the engine originally designed by Bugatti when they were an independent company and were designing the EB-118. That engine was indeed a 3-bank, 18-cylinder engine - like a V-12 with an extra bank of cylinders in the middle.

When VAG (Volkwagen Audi Group) bought Bugatti after they went bankrupt in the 1990s they took over development of that engine design. At first they went with the original 3-bank design and built at least one EB-218 prototype which was made available to the automotive press. There were insurmountable problems getting smooth operation from three banks of six (the press car was rev-limited to 3000 RPM and had a "curiously assymetrical idle") and plans to build engines with three banks were abandoned by VAG for practical reasons... but not before they showed the Veyron 18/3.

Instead, engines with four banks were designed. These included versions with 8 (4x2), 12 (4x3), 16 (4x4) and 18 (4x2+5x2) cylinders. However, for reasons best known to VAG's marketing people (but probably because they speak German), instead of calling them "VV" engines which is not only a more accurate description of what they are : just as a "vee" engine is two inline blocks joined to a common crank, you could say a "vee-vee" engine is two "vee" engines thus joined. Not only would be more clear, it would distinguish the design from a "W" engine which is one with three rows of cylinders - a design which has never been able to make it into production.

11. #36
Hi, I am coded Genacts.

I just wanted to remark this ammature phrase about 18/4. Bugatti, as very few of seem to know, is at the present time the property of the Volkswagen-AUDI Concern. In somewhat way odd engine configurations of such type is actually a common incident in VW. If you have ever been in Europe, where I, by the way, have lived for 15 years, you might have easily found even V-5. It is simple to understand. one row consists of 3 cilinders and the other of 2. In Bugatti 18/4, following an example above, 2 rows consest of 5 cil. and 2 rows of 4. such technology is posible just because of VW's common odd thinking.

12. #37
what the hell?? what do you mean the number of engines? it has one engine and that's it!

13. #38
0-0-0-0-0-0
0-0-0-0-0-0
0-0-0-0-0-0
3 inline 6 engine side by side, outer 2 has about 45 drgee of tilt and the middle inline 6 gose stright down.
not W but \|/
4 valve per clyinder

14. #39
no 18/4 is 18 cylinder quad-turbo

15. #40
how do you get an 18 cylinder engine?

16. #41
The 18/4 stands for: 18 cylinders (confingeration 6-6-6) concept Nr. 4, the Chiron was concept Nr. 3 (same engine)
Concept Nr. 1 and 2 just existed on the paper!
The engine itself was just a mogup. VW never managed to cope with the overheating.