Re: Torque Issue

Discussion in '2002 Mazda RX-8' started by Krazy383, Aug 9, 2002.

  1. Well ya....I have to admit that American GM 5.7L is kick ass =)
    I love the LS1 and LS6...but I also love how ya can rev so high in a rotary =)
    And much has changed since the 87 Rotaries =P
    As for quality and repairs, so far statistics states that Mazda quality is better than Chevrolet. They considered Chevrolet under industry standards...but then that just Chevy and not the Corvette division which practically has nothing to do with Chevy =P
    As for sedans and cars in general speaking Lexus has rated #1..but then of course my 94 Oldsmobile Royale with a retuned 3.8L V6 (3800 Series II)...yes..I said 3.8L =P big ass puppy pumps out bout 350hp and 360lbs/ft torque =) And this is not maxing out the engine or sticking chargers on it...just tuning and chips =)
    Not bad if I say so =P
    This huge ass family sedan can out accelerate and out run any damn Jap car cept like the Q45 which runs pretty damned fast for a car it's size. But I mean I can outrun Suped up Preludes, Integras, Civics, CRXs, Celicas, Supras....etc...even a NSX once =P
    thank god I redid the entire suspension =P handles nicely.

    but as I was saying...American large bore, large displacement does of course push out alot more torque, and sounds sweet under acceleration, but as for in city driving, it does consume quite alot more gas than 4-bangers if not pushed for performance.....
    the cool thing is the US engines run at such as low RPM and has a good tranny, especially for GM. Auto tranny is the same that BMW uses...yes BMW buys trannys from GM =P

    Anyhow, I love driving american muscle cars, but they sorta big to drive and park in large cities like Toronto, hence i probs will buy a smaller sports coup like the RX8...and I do not think it will lack in torque due to it's amazing high revving abilioties.

    And you gotta remember, if Rotaries suck that much..how come Mazda is the only Jap company to win the Lemans 24h with a rotary =P It beat out Porsche, Panoz, Nissan, Toyota and all those other cars =)

    DA PUN =)
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  2. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from SRB The Punisher</i>
    <b>Well ya....I have to admit that American GM 5.7L is kick ass =)
    I love the LS1 and LS6...but I also love how ya can rev so high in a rotary =)
    And much has changed since the 87 Rotaries =P
    As for quality and repairs, so far statistics states that Mazda quality is better than Chevrolet. They considered Chevrolet under industry standards...but then that just Chevy and not the Corvette division which practically has nothing to do with Chevy =P
    As for sedans and cars in general speaking Lexus has rated #1..but then of course my 94 Oldsmobile Royale with a retuned 3.8L V6 (3800 Series II)...yes..I said 3.8L =P big ass puppy pumps out bout 350hp and 360lbs/ft torque =) And this is not maxing out the engine or sticking chargers on it...just tuning and chips =)
    Not bad if I say so =P
    This huge ass family sedan can out accelerate and out run any damn Jap car cept like the Q45 which runs pretty damned fast for a car it's size. But I mean I can outrun Suped up Preludes, Integras, Civics, CRXs, Celicas, Supras....etc...even a NSX once =P
    thank god I redid the entire suspension =P handles nicely.

    but as I was saying...American large bore, large displacement does of course push out alot more torque, and sounds sweet under acceleration, but as for in city driving, it does consume quite alot more gas than 4-bangers if not pushed for performance.....
    the cool thing is the US engines run at such as low RPM and has a good tranny, especially for GM. Auto tranny is the same that BMW uses...yes BMW buys trannys from GM =P

    Anyhow, I love driving american muscle cars, but they sorta big to drive and park in large cities like Toronto, hence i probs will buy a smaller sports coup like the RX8...and I do not think it will lack in torque due to it's amazing high revving abilioties.

    And you gotta remember, if Rotaries suck that much..how come Mazda is the only Jap company to win the Lemans 24h with a rotary =P It beat out Porsche, Panoz, Nissan, Toyota and all those other cars =)

    DA PUN =)
    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->the rotary is a neat design and works well in races because reliability is no concern, even for piston powered cars...in a race, optimum hp/torque takes priority over reliability since they can change engine parts and even engines pretty easy since there are pit crews, and each team has good mechanics...if Mazda can keep the weight down, then its lack of torque wont be too much of a problem along with a 6 speed trans and low ratio final drive gear...i will give it this, at least its RWD, and if they offer a turbocharged version...it will really be fun<!-- Signature -->
     
  3. hehe..yep =)
    But you have to remember the 24 Lemans is not like any race =)
    Any mechnical #$%# ups can cost you the race, so therefore Mazda did awesome with the rotary there =) only Jap company to win Lemans..cool eh?

    Lemans is not like F1 where they race around the track for like bout 100times and it ends..hehe.
    they do more like 500+ time around the track pushing the cars =P

    DA PUN
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  4. i swear ppl, u are too concerned with where the car is made. the important thing is how it performs for the price, and what the potential is. as everyone knows here american cars are much heavyer due to their heavy and strong powerline, but japanese cars are light and so the jap cars usually outhandle the americans. as for power, stock, american and jap cars are bout head to head when it comes to power to weight ratios. some guy mentioned the supra being slowr than the vette. where did he get that from. the supra pulls .98 lateral g's in stock trim, and its detuned twin turbo engine mated to the getrag six speed propelles it to 60mph in less than 5 sec's without powershifts. when the hell di a stock regular vette do that?? were not talkin special edition here btw since the z06 and zr1 are still slower than the akimoto special edition supra. but thats just one comparison. many US cars will beat the jap competiion and still cost less. lets just say that the rx8 is a great ca and love the design and technology it represents and not get carried away with american/japanese loyalty.<!-- Signature -->
     
  5. Damn skippy. Man do I wish had nuff money. I would buy cars from each land. Besides a car reflects the owner/manufacturer. Americans are bigger and stronger than japanese people hence bigger and more powerful cars. The Japanese are smaller and more flexible (i really didn't know what to put here so i put flexible) hence their cars are lighter and have better handling. Europeans are more about styling hence their cars have more elagance.

    If your over 6 feet tall ur more likely to buy a american or european car, if ur 5 foot woman with little kids ur more likely to buy a small japanese car. I would know. My mom has a 91 Tercel. A nice little neat car, but way too small for me. When she rented a 2000 Taurus, she loved the acceleration and trunk size, but it was harder for her to see the front of the car.

    It's either one problem or the other. What somebody needs to do is combine european styling, with american power and japanese technology to make an effing amazing car. <!-- Signature -->
     
  6. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Janox</i>
    <b>Damn skippy. Man do I wish had nuff money. I would buy cars from each land. Besides a car reflects the owner/manufacturer. Americans are bigger and stronger than japanese people hence bigger and more powerful cars. The Japanese are smaller and more flexible (i really didn't know what to put here so i put flexible) hence their cars are lighter and have better handling. Europeans are more about styling hence their cars have more elagance.

    If your over 6 feet tall ur more likely to buy a american or european car, if ur 5 foot woman with little kids ur more likely to buy a small japanese car. I would know. My mom has a 91 Tercel. A nice little neat car, but way too small for me. When she rented a 2000 Taurus, she loved the acceleration and trunk size, but it was harder for her to see the front of the car.

    It's either one problem or the other. What somebody needs to do is combine european styling, with american power and japanese technology to make an effing amazing car. </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    So, are you implying that Americans are simple minded, compared to Japanese people too? Looking at engine design, it would seem that way.
     
  7. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from PORSHE962lovr</i>
    <b>when the hell di a stock regular vette do that?? .</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->the Vette did it back in 1997...<!-- Signature -->
     
  8. crazy383, the vette is faster than the supra in straightline speed by a very small margin(very very small margin), i admit that, but two things i must mention. first, the engine in a supra is detuned for insurance reasons, the actual sequential twins can put out as much as 400 hp with no addition of aftermarket parts. that aside, my second point is that the supra is faster on a track, since its got better braking and a better roadholding. but yes, the vette is faster stock in acceleration. but i must mention this, these two cars are about the same in performance, all it comes down to now is personal preference and so on. i like the supra better bcause it has four seats, and a more ergonomical interior, and i also prefer the looks of the toyota. and yeah, i just like the engine design. with the stock crank, supras are known to pump out as much as 950 hp and with modded cranks that number has gone as high as 1300hp. i admit, some turbo or s/c'ed vettes came close to those numbers, but from almost twice the displacement!!!<!-- Signature -->
     
  9. Supra is stupid
     
  10. i just hate it when ppl come up with these type of retarded answers and comments. "supra is stupid" !!!! ooh ok then. just by saying those few words, it shows how much ur informed ivan, or how ignorant u are. <!-- Signature -->
     
  11. what i mean by that ivan is that ur words dont make sense. how can a car be stupid?? the supra was released in 1993 and not redefined since in any major way, because the design was so ahead of its time. for the price of a vette in 1993 u got a car with far more performance and mroe practicality. the car was and is very advanted, is reliable, has great styling(personal preference) and has great performance compared to other cars in its price range, and still wasnt overpriced in any way. so how can this car be stupid?? if ur gonna make a statement like that, at least back it up plz.<!-- Signature -->
     
  12. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from PORSHE962lovr</i>
    <b>what i mean by that ivan is that ur words dont make sense. how can a car be stupid?? the supra was released in 1993 and not redefined since in any major way, because the design was so ahead of its time. for the price of a vette in 1993 u got a car with far more performance and mroe practicality. the car was and is very advanted, is reliable, has great styling(personal preference) and has great performance compared to other cars in its price range, and still wasnt overpriced in any way. so how can this car be stupid?? if ur gonna make a statement like that, at least back it up plz.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    How did you know the supra is more reliable? The supra is one of the worst handling FR cars, and btw, did you drive one before? I had, and it's really bad when come to sharp or deep corners.
     
  13. theres somehting about those rotarys they don't seem to need much torque. This car is nice, but it lacks the gorgeous styling of the RX-7, last gen. I bet it kicks ass though, keep it up imports. imports are coming back.<!-- Signature -->
     
  14. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from theace</i>
    <b>theres somehting about those rotarys they don't seem to need much torque. This car is nice, but it lacks the gorgeous styling of the RX-7, last gen. I bet it kicks ass though, keep it up imports. imports are coming back.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    It definitely kick @ss, but it's truly very ugly and copied from S2000
     
  15. actually i did drive a supra tt a few times ivan. one of my friends has one with a suprastore bpu++ kit on it and besides that its basically stock. its no secret that supras are tailhappy, but that also translates into oversteer on demand with that kinda power, and for an experienced driver that can be a good thing. its a hard car to hadle for weekend racers and so on but master ur clutch, throttle and double clutch right, and the car can be extremely fast. as they say, a loose car is a fast car. personally, i like tail happy cars, but thats personal preference, and although this car is not to ur liking u can still not call it a stupid car. maibe hard to drive but not stupid. truth is, once we get into very high performance cars, most are a ***** to drive, but rewarding nonetheless. and yeah, if someone wants to race or streetrace a car, they tailor it to theyre own liking by choosing aftermarket parts of their likind and sdjusting the sus. to their preference. its a preference thing.<!-- Signature -->
     
  16. It's not our fault Ivan can't drive!! :p I've been a big fan of the Supra ever since '94 when it came out with sub 5 second 0-100km/h times, a 1/4 mile of [email protected] and only 320hp standard. Your Vette weighs less, has had more power since 1993 (even earlier if you want to use the ZR1!!) but until 1999 they couldn't match the pure raw speed of the Supra. Plus, I don't see many 1100hp Vettes around that are STREETABLE which the Supra can be even when it's fitted with a GReddy kit at 25lbs. boost and able to rip up bitumen anytime you floor it!!!! Plus, all the stock Supra's are limited to 155mph, I don't see no limiter on the Vette!! C yas!! Mafs!!<!-- Signature -->
     
  17. Always an issue with rotaries, but, as it has been said before, if the car can be launched just right the power peak can be utilised rather than the torque. One advantage, though, is that the engine wastes less fuel on excess torque at low RPM, so the engine only drinks hard when you thrash it, similar to the VTEC powerplants of Honda.
     
  18. look if you want reall torque you should go a V-12 like tha tvr speed 12 rare and really fukin expensive but heaps of torque!
    as 4 tha RX-7 the rotary's put out a lot of accel and tourque for tha sizebut relative to most cars in their price range they are pretty puny!
     
  19. I'm going to put my 2 cents in here. The RX-7 is about the ONLY Japanese cars I respect when it comes to performance verses price. To the guy who said stock Japanese cars are about equal to the power/weight of American cars, I ask you this. Stock PERFORMANCE of Japanese cars verses American cars, what say you? Name a stock Japanese cars that can beat a SUB 4 second 0-60 Corvette Z06, which happens to do 1.00g on the skidpad for only $50,000. Name one that can beat an 01 Mustang Cobra for about $29,000. And I don't mean one that costed the same amount 5 or 10 years ago. How about a $22,000 Z28? I'm sure you can find a $22,000 Japanese car that will handle a tad bit better, but get SMOKED when it comes to acceleration.

    Japanese cars tend to have higher reving engines, which puts their peek torque higher on the RPM band. Since the torque is multiplied by the RPMs when Horse Power is calculated, you end up with much higher horse power than you have torque. This is why most Honda drivers piss their pants because they're so happy about having high horse power per liter. It's always fun the burst their bubble by asking, "and how much torque?" American cars get higher horsepower by increasing torque, and Japanese cars get their horsepower by increasing RPMs. It's that simple. I swear I'm going to choke the living shxt out of the next azzhole who says, "You have a large 8 cylinder engine, so it must be low tech." It's much easier to get higher RPMs from 4 small cylinders, than 8 large ones. Picture trying to control 8 large heavy cylinders moving about at 9000 RPMs. If it were easy then everyone would be doing it, and we'd have 1000 horse power engines all over the road.
    I'll choose diplacement over RPMs thank you very much. I would much rather have 350 lbs of torque at 4000 RPM, than 150 lbs of torque at 7000 RPM.

    Back to the RX-8. I do very much respect for the RX-7 performance, although I won't say they're king of the road. Everyone is aware of the problems the rotary engine had, and the cost of repair on those things. Most mechanics won't even touch one. I do have my eye on the RX-8 and I'll give it a chance. Three things I'm going to look for.

    1: How will a stock RX-8 perform on the track and the drag strip?

    2: Will the RX-8 be as tuneable as the RX-7? How long will it take for the aftermarket parts to begin hitting the shelves and magazines?

    3: How reliable will THIS rotary engine be? What will the costs of service, repair, etc. be?
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  20. I can see your view but you still have your head stuck in the sand! Japan is very inlike the good ol US of A in the motoring world. They are a much smaller contintent with tight street/alley ways & can barely open the throttle full.

    For export reasons, Japanese manufactuer's have to adhere with strict pollution controls of not only Japan, but the rest of it's world market. Trying to cram 5 litres of 8 into tight cars is & obeying pollution laws near on impossible. The only cars that do are taxed as a luxury car.

    I will always stick to the rule of inferior cast/alloy iron block 8's of America, compared to say that of Japan's which pull a lot more HP per litre out of their's. EG the Toyota 1UZ-FE 32 valve V8 whuch pulls just 194kw out of 3968cc. Mind you not a lot of V8's are available in Japan, the other I know of is the Nissan VH-45DE (208kw 4494cc). From what I have seen, these are only mildly tuned!
     
  21. I really can't believe the ignorance here.

    Mclaren F1 and a dodge viper have similar torque, which is the faster car?
    If torque made a fast car then japan would have limited torque too. But then the decision makers actually KNOWING anything about the laws of physics would have realise torque is heavily dependant on gear ratios, etc

    Skyline GT-R, EVO, WRX, 300ZX, VH45, all cars that run up against the 280hp power limit all have masses of torque for their HP.



    I thought the torque argument was settled along time ago: The Americans are wrong.
    If you understand anything about the physics of fast cars
    If one engine makes more crankshaft torque than another engine, it doesn't matter a damn. It matters what RPM that torque is being made and how the gear ratios put that to the road. Torque at the rear wheels and horsepower at the rear wheels are the numbers that actually mean anything (other than the compensated size of your dick).

    Horsepower = Torque x engine speed

    Acceleration = Horsepower, weight, gear ratios, etc.

    Top speed = Horsepower, aerodynamic drag

    Torque a fast car makes not.

    Whats more important is an engines ability to make torque accross a big RPM ranges. Again the large displacement arguement looses here.
    Did you know a suzuki hayabusa (140bhp per litre!) has a broader torque band than a viper (54bhp per litre)? Look at the graphs.
    Torque at low revs is important for easy driving, mid range is important for 0-60 and any work in 1st gear. Top end torque is critical because you need torque where your gears keep the engine. Also to push the air at max speed.

    American engines lack engine speed and efficiency, and make up for it by being much larger. They make poor torque and only at low and mid RPMs. A viper makes around 55 lb ft per litre of displacement - the upper end of streetable pushrods. A regular jap DOHC I4 makes 65-70, a suzuki hayabusa engine makes 84lb ft per litre.

    A 400bhp Ferrari will make the same thrust at the rear wheels as a 400hp Z06, because the Z06 has to have taller gears to have the same road speed.

    Rotarys can make a great deal of torque without much displacement, and rev really hard and can be tuned to make very broad torque. The RX-8 has variable valve shutters which will flatten out torque much like variable cams in a piston engine.

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