Re: vipers r cool so stop dissin them

Discussion in '2002 Dodge Viper GTS Final Edition' started by Linchpin, Aug 9, 2002.

  1. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from sparetire</i>
    <b>The AWD GSX is faster off the line than the GST. At top speed, there is a slight advantage to the GST due to reduced weight, but it is a small diff. </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    It's not so much about reduced weight as it is about parasitic driveline losses due to the AWD mechanism. That's a lot of friction going on there, which just eats up hp like crazy. Witness the Nissan Skylines with 1300 hp, but can do no better than 215 mph.
     
  2. Yo... someone in some thread said that this car sucks... that's not true, it is an extremely beautiful and very powerful car that's quick and handles well.

    However, someone ELSE said that "all you guys are just jealous because the Viper can beat your little M3s."

    Now that's hardly a fair comparison... V10 supercar versus V6 sedan... and one guy made the point that the M3 could rival the Viper if it had a V10...

    He was right. BMW raced an M3 GTR with a 4.0L V8 that ran a 0-60 in 3.4 seconds and annihilated the Porshes and various other supercars it raced against. In response, the rules commission decided that BMW could not race this car unless they made 100 production models of the same engine specifications... will it happen? Probably not... but you can imagine what a V10 would have done in an M3...

    So... to recap... the Viper is a great car, but so is the M3. They're different (the American approach to large horsepower gains is more and bigger cylinders - simple, yet effective, while Euro and Jap car makers prefer to engineer their engines to do more with less ex. M3, Tuscan Speed Six, Skyline GTR, S2000), but both are great cars. Can't we all just get along?<!-- Signature -->
     
  3. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from DeLioncourt</i>
    <b>However, someone ELSE said that "all you guys are just jealous because the Viper can beat your little M3s."

    Now that's hardly a fair comparison... V10 supercar versus V6 sedan...</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    V6?
     
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    But, if a Viper can be Beat by a Civic, even a Modified one, what's so Great about them?
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    And that civic could be beat by anything else, if you modified it enough. Say a insanely powerful go-kart. Than is a go-kart better than a civic? And would you want it over both that and a viper? You judge from one video, come on. And plus, quarter mile time (which I'm asuming the race in the video was) isn't everything. On top of which, a civic is... a civic. Looks and persona come into play. Not everyone wants something that sounds like a weed-wacker going by. I know I'd, anyday, take a bone stock viper over the most modified civic in town simply because I despise the "fast and the furious" look, much rather have viper. But that's my opinion.
     
  5. ******************************************************************
    Your Reply is Laughable... I bet the Civic handles like a GOD compared to a Viper, but at least You seemingly understand REAL racing is not done in a Straight line.
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    Why is it laughable. Take a Viper (and may I remind you we are comparing two completely different cars) and modify it to all hell too. It'd be fast, and on top of that, fast with a lot more weight. I think it'd look much better too, but that's aside the point. Anyway, I'd bet the civic doesn't handle like a god. And souped up vipers can handle incredibly when done right. A lot of quarter mile civic whatever's can bearly brake without losing their place, you see the ass end slide like an olympic ice skater, all over the place when they try and slow down after their great quarter mile run. Unstable- no fun. Plus it's a civic! Come on. I guess I just don't understand.
     
  6. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from sparetire</i>
    <b>The problems I mentioned also apply too the street cars. For an example, look at a Eclipse GSX vs. GST. The AWD GSX is faster off the line than the GST. At top speed, there is a slight advantage to the GST due to reduced weight, but it is a small diff. And the auto crossers definitly perfer the GSX to the GST. Of course the GSX is also more expensive, but I think it is still better bang for the buck.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->Good job... who would buy a FWD if it came in 4WD configuration? I know I wouldn't! If the Corrado had 4WD I would be so happy... but No...<!-- Signature -->
     
  7. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from bara10</i>
    <b>******************************************************************
    But, if a Viper can be Beat by a Civic, even a Modified one, what's so Great about them?
    ******************************************************************

    And that civic could be beat by anything else, if you modified it enough. Say a insanely powerful go-kart. Than is a go-kart better than a civic? And would you want it over both that and a viper? You judge from one video, come on. And plus, quarter mile time (which I'm asuming the race in the video was) isn't everything. On top of which, a civic is... a civic. Looks and persona come into play. Not everyone wants something that sounds like a weed-wacker going by. I know I'd, anyday, take a bone stock viper over the most modified civic in town simply because I despise the "fast and the furious" look, much rather have viper. But that's my opinion.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->I know... I hate 1/4 Mile - I think it's pointless!

    I am into the Small Nimble Cars more than Huge Cars like Vipers and what-not... So I am against American Cars no matter what kind of engine they have, or how much torque they have, or what their top speed is.

    Small cars just appeal to me more, I like the way they look, and especially with Japanese cars I like how many companies make products for them...

    So I'd take a Civic over a Viper anyday, wouldn't a civic (modified of course) be much better on an autocross course than a Viper? Being smaller and lighter?<!-- Signature -->
     
  8. Well...
    The Vipers handling is very underestimated, and I would take it over a damn civic anywhere any time.
    The civic ic not some great handling car. You would have to mod the suspension and all quite a bit, and thats just dumb when there are better value cars out there for aftermarket. The Hondas are not built for performance untill you get to the Preludes and RSX's ect. They have to be moded quite a bit to get power from them. They are simply not as practical for perfrmance as the pop culture beleives.
    And US cars do include some nimble handlers as well. The Dodge Daytona comes to mind, as well as the Talon TSI (Crystler product). The US has those car types as well. And there is plenty of aftermarket for US cars. Look to Jegs, Edelbrock and a slew of others for aftermarket. And, the Razor, which sadly will not be built, would have been a great car. But the engine is found in the SRT-4 by Dodge, so there is one more nimble car, that for its price I'll bet will slaughter imports in general untill the next model year.
    Not that the V-8s cant hold their own.
    <!-- Signature -->
     
  9. Guys guys guys... ppl don't like Vipers because they have an 8000cc engine... a V10, yet it only produces 460hp... wtf, the pushrod engine is getting old and no import car even bothers with it anymore... a BMW V12 engine in the McLaren displaces 6.0L, and puts out 627hp... that's roughly 100+HP/Litre... and if you wanna argue about Torque, the 6.0L V12 gets around 500lb-ft. so don't BS about a Viper engine.

    The bottom line is, the Viper uses old crappy yester-tech to make it go fast, so therefore I do not have any respect for it.<!-- Signature -->
     
  10. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from G_MAN</i>
    The bottom line is, the Viper uses old crappy yester-tech to make it go fast, so therefore I do not have any respect for it.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Yeah, and the BMW engine uses petroleum, cylinders, and valves, a 100 year-old practice. Therefore I have no respect for it. (Now you see how dumb your argument seems)<!-- Signature -->
     
  11. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Grizz2K4</i>
    ... and by the way, I HATE Civic's too, so don't go thinkin' I'm a little Punk White Kid that thinks his Civic can Box!!!</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Your signature, which includes the "motto", if you will, of Super Street Magazine, seems to say otherwise. Seems like someone needs to get out of the house.<!-- Signature -->
     
  12. #37 Guibo, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Grizz2K4</i>
    <b>I'd take a Civic over a Viper anyday, wouldn't a civic (modified of course) be much better on an autocross course than a Viper? Being smaller and lighter?</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Well, the Viper is a pretty wide car, which should count against it in terms of manueverability. Yet, few (if any) cars can match the 71-73 mph slalom it usually gets in MT.
    The Civic is smaller and lighter than a Z06. Yet the Z06 is cleaning up in SCCA autocross competition. Just look up Gary Thomason or John Ames. In the few events that they <i>do</i> lose, it's to the Boxster S or BMW M Coupe. Not modified Civics.
    The Viper does better at more open track events.

    Check out these Z06 videos:
    http://www.z06vette.com/media/autox_z.wmv
    http://gulfcoastautocrossers.com/MarkSipe20020209.mpg
     
  13. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from G_MAN</i>
    <b>a BMW V12 engine in the McLaren displaces 6.0L, and puts out 627hp... that's roughly 100+HP/Litre... and if you wanna argue about Torque, the 6.0L V12 gets around 500lb-ft. so don't BS about a Viper engine.

    The bottom line is, the Viper uses old crappy yester-tech to make it go fast, so therefore I do not have any respect for it.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    LOL, do you have any idea how much a BMW S70/2 engine costs? Right about $300K. About 4 <i>whole</i> Vipers put together. Please. Use a little common sense when making a comparison.
    The Viper engine gives you 490 lb/ft for less than $13K.
     
  14. Ha ha ha... why are you guys so stupid? Every engine uses Valves, and cylinders... what I'm trying so point out is that this Viper is still stuck in the good ol' days of muscle cars and detroit muscle... those days are gone... and Chrysler has merged with Mercedes... so stop with these stupid monster engines that put out half the horsepower it's supposed to...

    Oh yeah, BTW, a Honda S2000 engine puts out 120hp/Litre and it costs much less than a BMW... got an argument for that too dumbass?<!-- Signature -->
     
  15. Who in the hell would take a civic over a viper??

    it really looks stupid when ppl keep saying how their souped-up civics out perform Ferrari's, Vipers, Corvettes, Lambo's..when really, they are just civics.


    You tell me. Why do all rich business guys buy ferraris/lambos/mercs rather than paying a ton of money to soup up a civic?

    im sorry, but a civic with big mags, spoiler, etc, is not a viper..thats just the damn point. sorry, but civics are still civics not matter what you do to them
     
  16. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from G_MAN</i>
    <b>Ha ha ha... why are you guys so stupid? Every engine uses Valves, and cylinders... what I'm trying so point out is that this Viper is still stuck in the good ol' days of muscle cars and detroit muscle... those days are gone... and Chrysler has merged with Mercedes... so stop with these stupid monster engines that put out half the horsepower it's supposed to...

    Oh yeah, BTW, a Honda S2000 engine puts out 120hp/Litre and it costs much less than a BMW... got an argument for that too dumbass?</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    You obviously have no clue as to why the Viper was conceived <i>in the first place</i>. Here's a hint. Using your favorite search engine, look up Bob Lutz, Shelby, Viper, and Cobra.

    S2000 vs. M3? Are you serious? The M3 waxes the S2000's ass. And it has a usable trunk, usable rear seats, SMGII tranny, infinitely variable (non-fixed lockup ratio) electronically controlled M Differential. F u c k, the list goes on...
    The M3 has something the S2000 doesn't: heritage. It is the 3rd in a line of outstanding sports sedan. Its ancestor was the E30 M3. A car that still holds the title of most successful production touring car racer even to this day. Hell, even the old E36 M3 is faster than an NSX around a racetrack. You think an S2000 will waste an NSX around the track? I don't think so (check out R&T, Jan '01 for that answer). Dumbass. LOL.
     
  17. hell id rather keep a civic... dont mod it so if i decide to roll it i wont be out nearly as much cash. which is why i keep a ranger with the front bumper bent upwards at about 100 degrees.... people get outta the way when they see that in the mirror. makes the daily commute much smoother. and if i lose it one day and wreck it im out what... 20$? <!-- Signature -->
     
  18. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from G_MAN</i>
    <b>>Oh yeah, BTW, a Honda S2000 engine puts out 120hp/Litre and it costs much less than a BMW... got an argument for that too dumbass?</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Think about it. The S2000 is only 2.0 liters. The M3 is 3.2 liters. The smaller an engine is, the easier it is to get high hp/l. How do you increase hp/l on an engine with a given torque value? You increase the revs. Witness that the NSX's engine (much larger than the S2000's) only puts out about 90 hp/l. Witness that Honda's own CBR929RR puts out more hp/l than the S2000. Even without VTEC! Witness that those dinky R/C car engines put out well over 400 hp/l (!). How's that? Their smaller (and lighter) reciprocating parts allow for faster revs. Duh, THINK ABOUT IT.

    Why doesn't Ferrari's 575MM put out more hp/l than the 360 Modena?

    Why doesn't Lamborghini's $273K Murcielago put out 100 hp/l?

    Why doesn't the $150K Aston Martin DB7 Vantage put out 100 hp/l? It's making 69.76 hp/l, barely better than the much larger Viper engine. Yet it's V-12 Vanquish stablemate makes 77.51 hp/l out of the very same 5.935 liters of displacement. But wait. The Vanquish costs $240! Another $90K, or 60% more than the DB7 Vantage. Right now, you're probably thinking that if you blow up the engine on your DB7, you can have it replaced with the Vanquish engine at no extra cost over the Vantage engine, right? Because hp/l comes at no expense. It's free! Duh, THINK ABOUT IT.
     
  19. And the S2000 is not some car god for its HP/L. It is a very strong engine, which can handle the 9000 redline, which is how it makes power, as Guibo said. And cough cough...torque...cough...is non-existent on that car. And for 30K like the S2000 costs, you can get a much higher performance car. Hondas are not the best way to go for performance, you end up paying to much for what you get. Even compared to other Japanese cars.
    The US cars are good cheap HP. End of story. If all you like is fancy acronyms for systems on you engine you don't understand, you will get burned. I know a thing or two about engineering and I can tell you that the most sophisticated, complicated solution to a problem is rarely the best, most reliable solution to that problem.
    Now don't go and say but US cars are unreliable, because that is too broad a generalization. Some are, in fact TOO MANY are unreliable in my opinion, but that is not due to bad desighn, its due to cheap build practices. Give Detriot some time and you will see these problems fixed.<!-- Signature -->
     
  20. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from steveS</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Grizz2K4</i>
    ... and by the way, I HATE Civic's too, so don't go thinkin' I'm a little Punk White Kid that thinks his Civic can Box!!!</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Your signature, which includes the "motto", if you will, of Super Street Magazine, seems to say otherwise. Seems like someone needs to get out of the house.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->Riiight... My Signature has the Motto of Super Street Magazine! Good Detective work!

    <!-- Signature -->
     
  21. Umm... Guibo... I don't know why you keep on talking about the M3 and the NSX compared to an S2000... I never said anything about either of these cars... maybe you should read a thread more carefully before you try to respond to it...<!-- Signature -->
     
  22. Then which BMW were you trying to compare to an S2000? A Z3 2.5? A Z3 3.0? How about an M Roadster?
     
  23. there are no real american cars or foreign cars anymore... you can find a plant that makes nearly anything you want right here in the states. <!-- Signature -->
     
  24. That was a good one. Very funny.
     

  25. Re: vipers r cool so stop dissin them


    Thank you for destroying the topic. Also, if you put in the same mods into both cars and raced them, the Viper would come out extremely ahead of its dismal opposition, for these cars aren't in the same class. I hate r!cers who think that just because they put 10 G's under their hood and throw in a tank of Nitrous Oxide (now only asked for as Nos by stupid FATF fanatic import tuners who only get their ideas off of motion picture "I wonder whats gunna happen in FATF 2 cuz i wanna do it to my '88 Mirage") they thing their car is a great supercar. It only is a fast piece of crap that cant turn because most import tuners never modify their suspension.
    I think I'm done now...I need a shower...
     

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