Re: weight!!

Discussion in '2002 Lotus Elise Type 72' started by Bukem, Aug 10, 2002.

  1. Bugatti,

    With a number of under and post graduate qualifications, I can resolutely assure you I am not retarded. Indeed, I would argue that you are neither retarded nor 'stupid' as I have never called you that. Shame you have to use ill-judged pejoratives pertaining to people who are less fortunate than yourself to express your view...

    My point is that you made a fatuous comment that was patently untrue - if you crash the Elise, the lightness of the vehicle will not necessarily result in the occupant's death. My view was simple and it was this: the weight and structural integrity of the Elise may conrtibute to *survival* in impact collisions. I do know more about the vehicle's dynamics that you - simple fact.

    I am not arguing that it is indestructable, nor am I comparing it to an SUV. As you will see, I reported of an unfortunate death in an Elise recently. This is a lightweight, purebred racecar for the road, not a people / gear lugger.

    S2,

    I am in total agreement with you - I ofen find myself on the motorway side-by-side with an 18 wheeled trucks tyres wishing I wasn't looking at them! In traffic, the Elise, though benign, promotes a whole set of problems - just the other day I had to emergency brake when a young girl ran out in front of me - mistaking my road position as a gap in the traffic because she couldn't see me in the traffic stream.

    A less serious, but irksome phenonema is that parallel parking behind / in front of SUVs can result in crack clamshells when the SUVs leave, and don't see the car, or can't predict the dimesnsions of their own vehicle.

    Having spent a lot of time in the US, I think that I would be loathe to drive the Elise on most roads. I'd guess that the average American car is about 40% larger in every direction than the average UK motor. And I get enough trouble with people not seeing me in the UK.

    Owning an Elise means you become increasingly aware of other driver's faults, cossetted as they are in their a/c, padded leather, climate controlled, ABS'd, power everything coma-mobiles. Driving one is a testament to the true driving mantra:

    Prediction is better than reaction.
     
  2. ok i dont know anything about lotus'. i have never wanted to learn about them, i am not a fan of british cars. when i see a car weigh so little i think there would be a problem in crash tests, but you have proved me wrong. and i wasnt callin u retarded.<!-- Signature -->
     
  3. wow i cant believe you just spent that much time typing, trying to change my thought.<!-- Signature -->
     
  4. weight!!

    this thing is tiny!! if you get hit you are dead. but put some mods on it and it will be a 3/4 ton beast<!-- Signature -->
     
  5. IMO it's a bad idea to mod an Elise , this car is perfectly balanced.
     
  6. The weight isn't a problem.. Anything that size would get crushed by any other Huge SUV. But then again: Is the Elise going to do the crashing? Nope. Near-Perfection.
     
  7. If you own one of these you obviously won't crash it unless you are stupid enough to drive it on the road. The Weightmakes this car so fast.If you modified it, you would loose some serious speed. Remember, it is an inline 4.<!-- Signature -->
     
  8. If u crash this then it just shows you're not a very good driver........(unless it wasn't your fault!)
    This is the best driver's car out there and until you've sampled the handling then you won't realise how good it really is!

    Those who want more power:

    Lotus Elise Sport 130....0-60mph in 5.3secs....(3rd pic below)
    Lotus Elise Sport 190....0-60mph in 4.4secs<!-- Signature -->
     
  9. If I owned this car, I wouldn't dare risk out driving it. Have fun by all means, but once you start driving stupid enough to crash it, you don't deserve it. Take it to the track if you want to play serious.

    If Lotus can get 0-60 in 5.6, (yes I read the other forums), out of 120hp, don't you think they've got the whole how-to-build-a-car-right thing down better than some guy with a k&n and loud exhaust. And why the hell would you want your sports car to be heavier. doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose. If it aint broke, don't screw with it.<!-- Signature -->
     
  10. Best handling road car in the world + one of the best colour schemes I've seen. Too bad some moron will come along and say it's weak or that it needs a six-speed or that it's slow because it doesn't match 0-60 or topspeed w/ a Viper 800TT. BTW, making something heavy is horrible for active safety and it is pretty much irrelevant to passive safety. F1 cars are the safest cars on the planet and they weigh 150 kg less than this thing. Design is more important than weight.
     
  11. you dont seriously think that this is unsafe because it is a featherweight sportscar!!!!! This car is designed to handle well, so it has an immensly stiff chassis, therefore it has a very strong structure, and hence will be able to survive a crash quite well(Have you seen how wide the sills are in this car????). This is the sort of thinking that makes people buy SUV's, just cos they are heavy and taller than everything else on the road, so what, they is twice as likely to roll in a crash than a conventional car, plus they arent as good at avoiding accidents. SO next time think about the design as opposed to the numbers
     
  12. Hell yes... lotus is a great company. I would love to get my hands on one. the US version should still be good, but id be nice if we got the euro. oh well.<!-- Signature -->
     
  13. i dont think this thing could hit an suv, id go right under it cuz its so damn small! =)<!-- Signature -->
     
  14. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Bukem</i>
    <b>S2,

    I think we're talking at crossed purposes, or even arguing to agree!

    I was referring to the protection cell surrounding the passengers (we're all passengers in an accident - even the driver). Of course, the idea is to absorb impact energy along as long a timeframe as possible, (minimising the shock-trauma to occupants). The Elise has suitable crush structures front and rear (as per legislation) - my point is that when these structures' capacity to absorb impact energy is exceeded, the strength of the safety cell combined with the car's low weight tends to result in reflective disserpation rather than encroaching, absorbsion forces piercing the safety cell and thus the passengers.

    I think we have the same view, just approached the problem from slightly different perspectives.

    On a sadder note, I heard of a death over the last week in an Elise. It seems the driver got the car sideways and was hit by a van at a combined speed of over 150mph. (Elise's speedo reading was stuck at 97mph) The impact tore out the seatbelt mountings on the chassis and he was thrown out. A desperately tragic accident, and a lesson to everyone - no matter how safe the car is, it will have its limits.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    That makes perfect sense. I can see what you were saying and I guess i just missed it. But still with all the suvs on the road over here in America, I am worried that the SUV will hit above most of the Elises side protection. Also I heard that the Elise does not have the side protection that the US safety regulations demand. Of course this problem would be slolved by a new design, but it would most likely add wieght.
     
  15. ok, you people are retarded. the point of this little forum thing was to talk about how light the thing is and how well a light car can handle. and how little horsepower can propel such a small car so fast. but no, u guys start accusing me of being stupid because you are just so certain this can withstand a larger impact then an suv.<!-- Signature -->
     
  16. i don't see what all this argument is all about. why are we comparing the lotus elise to an suv?! yes, it's tiny and it's light...but isn't that the whole point of a sports car? light and agile? if you want a tall, heavy, rugged 4x4, then there is actually something called an SUV that you can get. but the elise is not an suv, it's a light-weight sportscar! so quit comparing it to some hulking pieces of metal.

    safe
     
  17. My Bronco would make mince meat out of this thing, LOL. My Dana 44 would go straight over the hood to the windshield and decaptitate the poor fool who was driving this thing around to fast in a head on collision. If it was a side impact I'd probably end up using this thing as a small ramp. It doesn't matter. This is a car built for speed, pure and simple. You all can say that "blah blah blah this car has a exoskeleton of pure titanium aluminum alloy to deflect oncoming pressure zones blah blah blah" it doesn't matter. I promise you, I'd rather be in the bigger car with 7 feet of hood and and a big block of iron between me and the other car. The Lotus may bounce back, but the latter will plow through. I'm not the big dumb American asshole you think I am, but my truck is big and dumb. But it is safe, I've got a 8 point family roll cage bolted to the frame that was custom fabricated for it by a Nascar shop thats in my town, four RCI bucket seats, each w/ RCI five point harnesses that are both integrated into the cage, and about a 5000lb (no joke, had it weighed at a station) curb weight. <!-- Signature -->
     
  18. 13BT REW,

    here's a post I made on another forum fin response to a similar posting to yours which, similarly made absolutely no sense. I suggest you learn something about physics before spouting illogical, inane comments:


    "To my knowledge (and I have a lot of it in relation to the Elise) there has been only one death in an Elise thus far. This was due to a roll-over incident when a young guy took his father's car without permission - i.e. he was inexperienced and *somehow* managed to flip the car. This was a tragic loss of life, but was completely avoidable. However, it still doesn't go anyway to justifying your statement.

    I know of many people who have crashed their Elises - they all walked away. The Elise has a revolutionary chassis construction - its has a bonded aluminium 'tub' that encloses the drvier and passenger. This is incredibly strong and impact resistant. The car is also very light, and in impact situations, the energy involved tends to be deflected rather than absorbed within the car's structure. This means that the vehicle doesn't end up trying to crumple everything up into the available space (i.e. the passenger compartment), rather it 'spins' the car into another direction, scrubbing off energy as it goes.

    So, due to its construction, the passenger cabin is highly resistant to being breeched by components. Combine this with the fact the there's no big iron lump in front of the driver's feet (the engine is behind the driver) and it all means that frontal crush impacts are less likely to result in serious injury.

    Finally, the Elise has the best crash/impact resistance of any vehicle tested in the UK for frontal impacts under 30mph. The car's bulkheads & crush structure are so strong that the car is (flailing bodywork aside) virtually unscathed in such impacts, and remains straight and perfectly safe to drive (to the nearest garage for bodywork repairs!).

    Apologies for the length of this rant, but I can't sit by and read such ill-informed nonsense being spouted about an extronidarily safe vehicle."
     
  19. um no i said GET HIT, not hit something. so it would have nothing to do with how good a drive you are when u get hit by a bus. i am not believing you people are saying that this is stronger then all others cars because it isnt. and a strong chassis wont have anything to do with your doors being smashed it when getting hit by an suv. it is obviously not made out of cast iron, it takes a hit it will get hit. if this thing is made out of carbon fiber i will shut my mouth. but aluminum then you people need to shut up.<!-- Signature -->
     
  20. do shut up!
    If anyone gets hit by a SUV then they'll probably die!
    What kind of a stupid comment is that saying u would get crushed because it's so small and light............was that the design brief when they made the car?
    I can just imagine the conversation in the Lotus board room when making the car:

    Designer:"Hey I have this idea to revolutionise the sports car market and produce a light low powered car which will officially become the best handling car in the world"

    Manager: "Hmmmmmm no........it's so small it may get crushed by an SUV"

    OK PROJECT ELISE CANCELLED!

    You're just making yourself sound stupid!

    The Elise is bonded together in a special way and has proved to be very safe in crash tests.........but then again you'd know this wouldn't u?<!-- Signature -->
     
  21. no.............just proving how stupid u are!
    Getting crushed by an SUV..........ha........<!-- Signature -->
     
  22. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from bugatti442</i>
    <b>um no i said GET HIT, not hit something. so it would have nothing to do with how good a drive you are when u get hit by a bus. i am not believing you people are saying that this is stronger then all others cars because it isnt. and a strong chassis wont have anything to do with your doors being smashed it when getting hit by an suv. it is obviously not made out of cast iron, it takes a hit it will get hit. if this thing is made out of carbon fiber i will shut my mouth. but aluminum then you people need to shut up.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Are you a metalurgist? No? Then don't spout bollocks about the structural intergrity of aluminium. If you knew anything about the metal, you'd understand its torsional rigidity and fatigue strength. Cast iron, by the way, is not very strong. It has tensile strength, which allows it to flex and return to original state a finite number of times before failing. Aluminium doesn't have this quality, (thankfully) but you'd be a bit stuffed if a safety cell and chassis were constructed with tensility inculded.

    If you are in doubt about the Elise's impact resistance, don't take my word for it. Please refer to EuroNCAP (or the Transport Research Laboratory who condust the tests) - they are the UK's car safety standards agency. They are government appointed to ensure automotive products on sale in the UK comply with legislation.

    You also talk about doors being smashed in. This belies your ignorance once more - the Elise places its occupants well away from the doors - you are protected by an integral chassis sill - that is essentailly a shoulder-high aluminium strut which adds around 20cm of distance from the beam reinforced doors.

    Just as in a race car - the bodywork is purely cosmetic, unlike a lot of cars who use the shell and bodywork as integral elements of chassis strength. Its lightness means that kinetic energy is deflected rahter than absorbed through crumpling and decompression. It doesn't have to be carbon fibre to be strong you know.
     
  23. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from 700bhpcaterham</i>
    <b>you dont seriously think that this is unsafe because it is a featherweight sportscar!!!!! This car is designed to handle well, so it has an immensly stiff chassis, therefore it has a very strong structure, and hence will be able to survive a crash quite well(Have you seen how wide the sills are in this car????). This is the sort of thinking that makes people buy SUV's, just cos they are heavy and taller than everything else on the road, so what, they is twice as likely to roll in a crash than a conventional car, plus they arent as good at avoiding accidents. SO next time think about the design as opposed to the numbers</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->Totally agree. 4WD's (SUV) have a higher Centre of gravity, therefore they will be more susceptible to roll.

    Bigger is better? Not always. It's how you use it.<!-- Signature -->
     
  24. Just to remind you guys: this is THE sportscar - not a tank...
    If all you care about is safety you better take the train - then even a SUV won't be real trouble...
     
  25. ok so all of you are saying, if you were gonna get hit by a bus. you would rather be in this, then an suv?? ok well i wouldnt. but this still is a great car.<!-- Signature -->
     

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