Re: What do you think?

Discussion in '1991 Mazda 787B' started by RacingManiac, Aug 9, 2002.

  1. Oh, bloody hell. Listen, I'm asking why this car won LeMans without breaking in the whole 24 hours. I'm talking about the 26B motor. Hello, were talking about his car, about its history, what happened, not about the Rx-7s today, wake up will ya.<!-- Signature -->
     
  2. Its one simple question and everyones making it hard, I'm just looking for an answer how this car managed to finish LeMans overall without major problems, thats it, I'm not mentioning the reliability of all the rotary engines in the world, just this one, okay, just this. <!-- Signature -->
     
  3. I was wondering if anyone has the pictures of the other 787B, not with the RENOWN livery or color scheme, but the white one with the blue stripe and white/blue banner, number 18 or number 56. Does anybody have any?


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  4. Its a challenge to find one of these, its very scarce indeed, but is there anyone who has any?

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  5. Can we just say luck and leave it at that so you can shut up about it?? C yas!! Mafs!!<!-- Signature -->
     
  6. Yeah, you're right Maf. Its quite scarce. <!-- Signature -->
     
  7. I just have a question. In your first post to this topic, kenmclaren, you talk about the leading Mercedes in Le Mans 1991. Now, I'm not such a huge Le Mans expert like you or RacingManiac are, but didn't Mercedes make their first appearence into international motorsport in 1997 with the CLK-GTR after their horrible accident in Le Mans in 1955? So how can it be that a Mercedes already raced in 1991?<!-- Signature -->
     
  8. Ummm Mazda Holds the record for highest reliabilty at Le Mans ???

    WTF ???????

    Also Mazda RX-7 have dominated IMSA since the 80's won the Bathurst 12 hour production race the list goes on and on.

    The Rotary is one of the most reliable race enignes in the world and all of this from a engine that uses 89% of the parts from the stock engine.

    Also Stock Rotary Engines last 8-10 years or 120,000 km.

    What happend to the 787B ?

    The FIA banned it because even with the FIA's bull**** formula for penalising the RE it still one.

    The engine is 2.6l (654cc x 4)

    The rotary engine is penialised in almost every form of motorsport and what it isn't it dominates.

    The RE is simply a better idea.

    RotorRian
     
  9. Well, as technology advances these days, more rules are put out in this kind of sport, simply to put the cars on race on even grounds.<!-- Signature -->
     
  10. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from kenmclaren</i>
    <b>Well, as technology advances these days, more rules are put out in this kind of sport, simply to put the cars on race on even grounds.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Thanks
    Rotary's Rule
     

  11. Theres alot of advantages on modifying a rotor motor, that hides some of the restraints of the regulations, so they had to kick it out. But rotor motors are really reliable engines, except the highly modified ones like the one on the 787s. In the RX-7s they're more reliable cause of less work from all the components of the engine.<!-- Signature -->
     
  12. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from kenmclaren</i>
    <b>
    Theres alot of advantages on modifying a rotor motor, that hides some of the restraints of the regulations, so they had to kick it out. But rotor motors are really reliable engines, except the highly modified ones like the one on the 787s. In the RX-7s they're more reliable cause of less work from all the components of the engine.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    The R26B is highly reliable, hence why it had won Le Mans
     
  13. See, thats the question I'm trying to ask everybody, why did this engine won LeMans?

    To go back on little stats, the R26Bs weren't very reliable on races before and after LeMans, then how did the R26B won LeMans without breaking?<!-- Signature -->
     
  14. Why do you think this Mazda won LeMans? whats the reason?<!-- Signature -->
     
  15. Why did the 1991 26bs not break? Who knows. Maybe they figured out how to cast the rotors better, maybe they used better fuel pumps, maybe they used stronger apex seals, maybe they used a higher quality oil to lubricate the seals. The only people who would know that would be the people at Mazda Speed.

    Rotaries are by nature a better designed engine than reciprocal motion engines. Less moving parts, all parts moving in one direction.

    I can't answer your question properly, I doubt anyone in these forums could. I'd say it'd be part luck, part technology (over the previous years engines) which made the 1991 engine suceed while others failed.

    Also, you must consider the failure of piston engines. Rotaries fail, yes, but so do piston engines. With your great wealth of knowledge KenMcLaren, you should know that. Take a look at any 24 hour le-mans race, there will be an engine failure 99% of the time i'd say.


    I'd love to take this car on a few laps of a circuit. Sitting inside it, 4 rotors sitting behind you reving like only rotaries can, it'd sound excellent.
     
  16. Amen to that!!!<!-- Signature -->
     
  17. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from SpecGen</i>
    <b>Why did the 1991 26bs not break? Who knows. Maybe they figured out how to cast the rotors better, maybe they used better fuel pumps, maybe they used stronger apex seals, maybe they used a higher quality oil to lubricate the seals. The only people who would know that would be the people at Mazda Speed.

    Rotaries are by nature a better designed engine than reciprocal motion engines. Less moving parts, all parts moving in one direction.

    I can't answer your question properly, I doubt anyone in these forums could. I'd say it'd be part luck, part technology (over the previous years engines) which made the 1991 engine suceed while others failed.

    Also, you must consider the failure of piston engines. Rotaries fail, yes, but so do piston engines. With your great wealth of knowledge KenMcLaren, you should know that. Take a look at any 24 hour le-mans race, there will be an engine failure 99% of the time i'd say.


    I'd love to take this car on a few laps of a circuit. Sitting inside it, 4 rotors sitting behind you reving like only rotaries can, it'd sound excellent.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Very good, I know, I know, but I'm asking the one reason why the R26B on this car did not break. Its either they did something to it, or they put on something, you tell me.<!-- Signature -->
     
  18. Your question how did the R26B not break ?

    Personally I have never seen the 787B race anywhere except Le Mans and as far as im aware that is the only place it raced.

    I finally have the answer to your question ?

    Heat was the killer of the engine.

    How they fixed it cement coated rotor housings and new compound Apex seals.

    Here is some Secret Mazda Stuff on that puppy <IMG SRC="http://www.supercars.net/servlets/cMsg/html/emoticons/smile.gif">

    RotorRian

    On 23 June 1991 Mazda won the 24-hour Le Mans endurance race with a Category 2 (C2) 787B racer, #55, powered by a 4-rotor R26B--the first and likely last rotary win because of C2 rule changes prohibiting rotaries in 1992. Just to finish Le Mans is an accomplishment--let alone win. The 787B covered 4923.2 km (3059.1 mi) at an average speed of 205.3 kph (127.6 mph), exceeding 320 kph (200 mph) on the main straight. Yet it still had 30.0 liters (7.9 gallons) of fuel left of the maximum 2550 liters (673.6 gal) allotted, giving an impressive 4.6 mpg. Here's a look at this historic engine, emphasizing the DIFFERENCES between the R26B and the 13B whose geometry it's based on.
    The R26B develops 700 net bhp (Japanese) at 9000 rpm, its redline, and 449 net lb-ft of torque at 6500 rpm. It's only 39" long and weighs just 396 lb. The R26B has a 3-piece eccentric shaft; the long main shaft has journals for rotors #2 and #3 and tapered extensions for 2 hollow shafts with journals for rotors #1 and #4. Counterweights are used at both ends. To stiffen the engine, aluminum honeycomb is used where needed, including the aluminum oil pan, which is mounted on top. The R26B uses a dry-sump oil system. Tension bolts are anchored throughout the intermediate housings, further increasing stiffness. Engine coolant and oil enter through the center housing.

    Rotor and side housings are coated with hot-sprayed chrome-carbide cermet (ceramic in a metallic array) for high-temperature wear resistance. The intake as well as exhaust ports are peripheral. Each rotor housing has 3 spark plugs: a third "far-trailing" plug was added for better fuel economy and power. Rotors were precision cast to a 10.0:1 compression ratio using the lost-wax method to reduce rotating mass. Two-piece silicon nitride ceramic apex seals have, in the words of one summary, "a 'sprinkle' of an ingredient that raises heat conductivity", and they use 2 springs. The R26B has a sophisticated electronic port fuel injection system and telescopically variable intake pipes whose length vary with engine speed to improve airflow.

    After winning, this historic engine was taken apart in front of the press. Little performance deterioration had been noted during the grueling race, and the R26B looked nearly new after dismantling. Even Mazda's head office engineer said, "In the case of the rotary engine, damage to the apex seal is the best reference. And as you can see, it's nearly untouched." After measurement, wear on apex seals, rubbing surfaces, and bearings were found to be only 1/3 to 1/2 the upper limits--in Mazda's words, "indicating remarkable durability and reliability". As racer Paul Frere was to say of the win, "A pity Felix Wankel has not lived to see it."

     
  19. best mazda ever made... beats the crap out of the toyota GT1
     

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