Re: When will the americans learn how to make engines??????

Discussion in '2003 Ford Mustang SVT Cobra' started by snyper, Aug 9, 2002.

  1. look at the M3 gtr engine
    4 litres V8
    450bhp
    and almost egual torque, naturally aspirated and .6 of a litre smaller and still more power and torque<!-- Signature -->
     
  2. When will the americans learn how to make engines??????

    A 4.6lt V8 with a supercharger and only 390 horsepower????? That's pathetic!!!!!!! Tell BMW to make V8 the same size and they will make at least 400hp without superchargers. when will they ever learn?!?!?!?!
     
  3. No i'm saying if you had money buy an SuperStalion a COBRA R a BOSS before talking that the americans WHO DEVELOPED THE V8 don't know how to make engines !!!

    It IS pathetic !!!!

    The BMW was a company who allways had make a lot of cars with problems and NOT reliable.

    Every German knows that. You're thinking that Volkswagen, Audi, Mercedes and BMW are all the same.

    The great German companies in reliability are Audi and Mercedes.

    The BMW has an entire BAD history throught the 50s, 60s, and 70s.

    If they make an engine with more this or more that ask them to explain why the Germans allways prefer the Porsches, Mercedes and Audis.

    And ask too why every mustang Cobra had allways been faster then every BMW. The car of this forum was made to be cheaper and fast in America.

    But if you had a lot of money take a look in the Mustang BOSS, SuperStalion, COBRA R forums before coming here.



    Ps.: Ask to BMW why they best cars are V8s and not their marvelous 6-cyl...<!-- Signature -->
     
  4. I have never seen a BMW do a Whealy. Or do the quqrter mile in 4 seconds at over 300MPH.
     
  5. hey moron, we are talking about engines
     
  6. #6 84FordMan, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from BMW M</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from The El Man</i>
    <b>You obviously havent got a clue. I would like 2 c BMW get that much torque from a similar engine, or accelarate as fast as the Mustang does!

    Plus compare the sound of a Ford/Chevy V8 compared to a BMW V8. No comparison except the ridiculously priced (but oh so sweet Z8).


    To see cool cars visit this site and click "BODY STYLING"

    http://lameroad.topcities.com

    awesome!</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    El Man your retarded! There is no stock mustang or chevy (besides the Z06) that could beat the M5 in a race. Who cares about the "sound" of the engine. The M5 is a monster than performs very smoothly and out-accelerates any stock mustang and even the "tuned" Cobra. The M5 is the fastest Saloon car in the world and it combines great euro handling (something no American car will ever have), Luxury fit for a KING, QUALITY engineering, and one of the best designs around, hence it's price tag. If you wanna play with concept of tuning, I can bring in Schnitzer, Hamann, and Dinan. The M3 GTR does 0-60 in 3.4 seconds. And the Z8 is a God compared to the Mustang that is the equivalence of a peasant. BMW is not overpriced, you get what you pay for: QUALITY. Mustang's have horrid resale value and they break down rather easily.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    I wonder how many times I have to repeat myself before BMW fanboys get it through their thick, egotistical skulls:

    "I said it before BMW M, compare within BMW's own class, luxury-performance. Want to compare it to a Ford company, do it with Jaguar. What, suddenly scared? Why? Simply because there are several Jags that could obliterate BMWs? Let's see, Jaguar has a total of three entries on the Best 0-60 list, compare that to BMW's... zero entries.

    I direct your attention to the 1994 Jaguar XJ220 S TWR. Eight years old and it's still smoking BMW across the board. So your thinking it must have some V10 or V12 under the hood, right? Nope. V8? Nope. It has, get this, a V6!!! Pushing out 680 HP @ 7200 RPM and 526.6 ft lbs @ 5000 RPM. Excuse me, but what BMW V6 can do that? Oh that's right, the Germans can't get it right!!

    For top of the line Jaguar, get the 1990 XJR-15, aye it has a V12 pumping, get this, 450 HP @ 6250 RPM and 420 ft lbs @ 4500 RPM. Before you can start laughing BMW M, this 450 HP, 1 ton Jaguar CAN STILL SMOKE ANY BMW OUT THERE!! In the twelve years since it's existance, BMW has yet to beat out the XJR-15.

    It's not how many horses you have (Example: Ferrari), but how well you use them (Example: 1967 Ford GT40).

    Face it BMW M, a Ford owned company, dominating your beloved BMW for well over a decade, and for many years to come. German luxo-muscle will never win over British luxo-muscle."<!-- Signature -->
     
  7. wow....they might have built a fast engine, but who owns one?...what was the production run?....and i sure as hell hope they make a fast engine for 1.2+ million dollars, shit
     
  8. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from BMW M</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from 84FordMan</i>
    <b> I said it before snyper, and I believe it was to you, compare within BMW's own class, luxury-performance. Want to compare it to a Ford company, do it with Jaguar. What, suddenly scared? Why? Simply because there are several Jags that could obliterate BMWs? Let's see, Jaguar has a total of three entries on the Best 0-60 list, compare that to BMW's... zero entries.

    I direct your attention to the 1994 Jaguar XJ220 S TWR. Eight years old and it's still smoking BMW across the board. So your thinking it must have some V10 or V12 under the hood, right? Nope. V8? Nope. It has, get this, a V6!!! Pushing out 680 HP @ 7200 RPM and 526.6 ft lbs @ 5000 RPM. Excuse me, but what BMW V6 can do that? Oh that's right, the Germans can't get it right!!

    For top of the line Jaguar, get the 1990 XJR-15, aye it has a V12 pumping, get this, 450 HP @ 6250 RPM and 420 ft lbs @ 4500 RPM. Before you can start laughing snyper, this 450 HP, 1 ton Jaguar CAN STILL SMOKE ANY BMW OUT THERE!! In the twelve years since it's existance, BMW has yet to beat out the XJR-15.

    It's not how many horses you have (Example: Ferrari), but how well you use them (Example: 1967 Ford GT40).

    Face it snyper, a Ford owned company, dominating your beloved BMW for well over a decade, and for many years to come. German luxo-muscle will never win over British luxo-muscle.

    Also if any of those engines did exist, they would be in my dyno program, which has nearly every domestic, import and mainstream exotic (Lambo and Ferrari) engine dating for the 60s-70s all the way up to 2001. You have still failed to produce any evidence of their existance only saying "I've seen them." Well people see aliens too, but does that mean they exist too?</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    This will definitely shut you up! I believe the fastest production car in the world is the McLaren F1 powered by none other than a BMW V12 which is the killer of the XJ220. And no Jag or Aston Martin will ever be influenced by Ford's inferiority even if they are "Ford Owned."</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Funny thing is BMW M, it took Bruce McLaren to make that. Just because he used a BMW engine, doesn't make it a BMW car. I'm comparing car to car, BMW to Jag. You go spouting off about McLaren (Who by the way, is a British car maker). It took McLaren taking the engine off BMW's hands and turning it into something that would actually perform well. 10% of the F1 was German, the other 90% was British design and engineering. So I would suggest you stop using a British car to bolster your German ego.

    Let's say BMW can actually make an engine like that, where is that type of engineering today? I don't see any of BMWs in a Jags class out performing them. What happened to that supposed great German engineering?

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from snyper</i>
    <b>BMW M is pretty on the mark IN MY OPINION, just wanted to make that point clear, and if i remember it was probably a #$%#ed up driver that #$%#ed up the transmission, and 84FordMan i own a ford so i aint no hater, but i still believe they need to learn how to make engines, and as i said before, THE JAGUAR WAS NOT UNDER FORD CONTROL AT THE TIME OF THE CARS INCEPTION!!!!!!!!!!, therefore it does not fall under an american car, or even an american owned European car, and JD Power and associates has even said it for u, all of the american car companies are either tied with or below BMW on the most problems with cars, ur own evidence, i will admit that there is one european car there(vw), and it is only in the US that the companies use ford Police cars, in germany they use tuned porsches, and in England they use Vauxhalls and Rovers, those r just 2 examples, i mean a starter system, i have had my ford for 4 years and i have had to replace the starter 3 times allready, and it appears that even u have to refer to a EUROPEAN CAR TO SHOW POWER, that is really sad, even u have lost ur way, Cobra351R, the engine block of the Ford Boss broke twice in one day, how can u even mention that in this conversation, wtf, so it did an incredible time, i bet u can tune any Europen car to do the same if not better, i mean the Dauer 962 Le Mans does it in 2.7 stock with only 600bhp on tap, imagine what it could do with 850bhp as in the BOSS, peace</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Aye in Germany they use Porsches and Bimmers, but just like over here where Fords are cheaper in price, Porsches and Bimmers over there are cheaper (Than compared to US prices). There are more factories and dealerships over there than in the states. Cost of repairing a Porsche or Bimmer in Germany is going to be well cheaper than in the States due to the surplus of parts and knowledge of the machine over there.

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from BMW M</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from EliteWolverine</i>
    <b>hey bmw m dude how about u come to my city and see the waiting line for bmw's to get in the shop...no they are not 5yrs old they range from 1month to 2yrs old...

    oh and ur source for info on ford makes bad cars??? didnt think so, there is no proof one maker is better than the other in terms of quality.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Sorry but a standard oil change and check up doesn't count as parts replacement. Ford's break down with major problems in the transmission, drive shaft, alternator, break pads etc... I would know my father is a car wholesaler and he deals with numerous types of cars. Why do you think Escorts, Mustang's and Focus' all depreciate by half their value in like 2-3 years whereas european and japanese cars maintain their value. It's called quality! If you don't believe me shop the market, check the red book.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    So would you like to explain a three year old in good-excellent condition Porsche 911 S depreciating over $45,340 in just three years? Or how about a Mercedes-Benz S420 of the same age and condition depreciating $47,453 in just three years? Or BMW 540i of same age and condition depreciating $28,828 in just three years?

    So much for Euro cars retaining their value. I don't pay attention to the "red book" I pay attention to the Blue Book, Kelley Blue Book that is, and Edmunds.

    "Good question, and the answer is that American Cars are "Cheap." You think it would be practical for cop cars to be BMW's or MB? It would cost millions of dollars more when the car is going to be abused with daily cop activities anyway. This is a stupid question. It's like asking why don't Pizza delivery boys ever drive Luxurious cars. Oh and your point about the mechanical ratings is messed up! In case you didn't know Toyota=Lexus, so how the hell can a Lexus be ranked 1st in least mechanical problems and a Toyota near the bottom? I don't care what the hell you do. I have connections with 50 professional mechanics since my father is a car wholesaler and this is how they rate quality construction: 1)Honda 2)Toyota 3)Mercedes 4)VW 5)BMW and the ALL U.S. made cars always come last. With Cavalier's, Escort's, and Neons bringing the most mechanical headaches.i.e. problems with the neutral switch, transmission, alternator, brake pads/shoes, ENGINE etc..."

    ROFL! I'm sorry that post doesn't even deserve to be put in a quote block due to how wrong you are. Ok since you have "connections" you should realize Lexus is a division of Toyota, such as Audi is a division of VW, and Acura a division of Honda. You have "connections" YOU SHOULD KNOW THIS STUFF!! Unless your lieing, of course. Oh and stop crying about how a Jap car beat your German love machine in quality build.

    Well you know what BMW M, there is a difference from hearing buzz words from daddy and actually getting your hands dirty and your nose in the books, a VAST difference, and trust me, it shows in you.

    As for quality construction, my sister can vouch for how horrible build quality VW is, since she nearly was burned alive in one of those death traps. Still no conclusive reports from the fire investigator but everything is pointing to VW's shoddy starting system. Oh, and this wasn't some 5-7 year old VW either, a 2000 model. German death trap engineering at it's finest.

    Maybe someday when you grow up, you will venture into the field of mechanics where you will learn the truth behind vehicles and their problems. What I love about BMW's is their "engineering", they purposely make it a pain in the ass to repair one. "Hmm Von, what should we do to the 540i today? How about putting the battery behind the back seat and inaccesible from the trunk and run an uneccesary length of battery cable from the rear of the car to the front?". While I was mocking them, the battery behind the back seat is quite true. You have to remove the back seat in several BMWs to replace the battery.

    As for alternators, as much as I hate sticking up for Chevy, too, they often leave the plant with Delphi Automotive alternators, which I can personally vouch are very reliable, but of course I'm probably talking jiberish to you now because all you know is what you hear daddy talk about, right?

    Also one last thing, McLaren F1 is not a "stock car". Just like the Factory Five Racing Coupe, Tommy Kaira ZZII, and even Ligenfelter 650 Corvette. They are classified as tuners and in the case of Factory Five and Kaira, kit cars, because they use other companies engines and parts to make their vehicle come to life. Call McLaren F1 a tuner or kit, but it's not a stocker.<!-- Signature -->
     
  9. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from BMW M</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Krazy383</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from BMW M</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from CHECKERS3333</i>
    <b>ok... americans like the SOUND of a huge engine as well as the hp and speed. what would you all rather hear when u rev up your car??? a squeal from a 3.6liter 420hp 911 turbo, or the roar of an 8.0 liter 450 big block viper gts??? yea...

    THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT!!!</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    The Viper GTS is a beautiful car but don't embarass yourself! Goliath was bigger than David but who ended up winning, that's right it was David. The sound of the Viper means nothing when it gets blown away buy the 911 turbo and GT2. The 911 GT2 does 0-60 in 3.6 seconds and the viper does 0-60 in about 4.0 seconds. And this just in a drag race, if we take both cars to the race track the GT2 will outhandle the Viper making it look so weak. </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->where was BMW in the GTS class at LeMans? too scared to enter? Who won the GTS class? the C5-R...and where was Porsche in the GTS class? nowhere to be found....LMP class? who cares! they are all non production (limited) production vehicles anyway, but still the Cadillac LMP, even being a new participant placed in the top 10, which is pretty good for a new entry, and the team has already started work on the new Cadillac LMP...so dont gimme any of your BS about how BMW is the be all n end all of cars...and ya wanna compare a $180,000 GT2 to a $80,000 GTS? lets compare... 0-60 times 3.6(GT2) 4.0(GTS)...lateral acceleration 1g(GT2) 1g(GTS) 1/4mi times 12.0(GT2) 12.2(GTS)...is there a huge difference in performance to warrant a huge difference in price? no...and everyone knows it, except for blind prudes with their heads up their own asses...why dont we compare the Viper Venom 800TT to the GT2, both similar in price, but alas, the 800TT still costs @ $20,000 less...</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    One more idiot added to the pool of the other idiots! I didn't start the Comparison of the GTS vs the GT2. If you read the other posts your brain would recollect that Checkers3333 said that "the Viper GTS sounds better and thus it's a better car the 911 Turbo" And you can see what my reply was: 911 Turbo and GT2 not only out-accelerate the Viper but also outhandle it. And your an even bigger idiot than Checkers3333, because your comparing the 800TT (a Tuned Viper) to a stock Porsche? I can bring Porsche tuners (Ruf,Gemballa) to beef up the already mighty GT2 and then we'll see if the 800TT can handle the GT2 on a race track.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->stop whinning cause BMW/Porsche didnt have the balls to enter the GTS class...and stop calling other people names to compensate for yo mama being an idiot for having such an idiot for a child...funny thing is RUF and Gemballa dont make Porsches that compete with the 800TT on the strip or the track, so by all means, please call them up and have them make u 1 and wait for a year or two for them to do it, pay @ $700,000 and have them screw u up your a$$ and let them make u their bit*h like u already are...i think u better calm down, before u really get reamed...and take some anger management classes<!-- Signature -->
     
  10. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from BMW M</i>
    <b>84FordMan,why do you put words into my mouth, asshole? I know that Lexus is a division of Toyota that why I said that Toyota=Lexus. And your specific mumbo jumbo about "putting the battery in the back seat" has no merit to it. And yes VW OVERALL constructs quality cars that are built to last. You don't know shit. And I'm an adult and I've had contacts with many top grade mechanics whom you "a supposed mechanic wannabe" would have to bow down to. And yes, Japanese automobiles are of the highest quality and they do give the least problems. OVERALL American cars give mechanics the most "business" and your an idiot if you deny that. And your point about depreciation means nothing because if you consider the % of depreciation between Euro and American cars, American cars have the higher depreciation rate. I'll give you an example: The Civic EX and the Grand Am are in the same price range (brand new). A 95 Grand Am costs $4000 CND while a 95 Civic EX cost $8000 with the same mileage and condition. This is just one example out of thousands I could give. And if you wanna debate this let's go outside this forum and see if anyone will agree with you about how the McLaren F1 is not a stock vehicle. In that case all Honda's are tuned, because Mugen provides parts for them. Your comment is ridiculous.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Waaaa... waaaa...waaaa.

    *Yawn*

    Funny how you avoid the extreme depreciation of Euro cars by saying American cars have a higher depreciation rate while backing it with no facts.

    It appears I am going to have to break this down for you. Lexus is a division of Toyota. Lexus is made at different plants than Toyotas. Different parts go into Lexus. Lexus is built up as a luxury vehicle, so COMMON SENSE and logic dictate more effort and attention are going to be directed at a Lexus than a Toyota. Right? Right.

    Your still using a British car to defend your German love? Tsk tsk.

    As for which cars give the more business, I guess I'll just turn a blind eye to all those Jap and Euro cars I worked on this pay period (2 weeks) and focus on the 6 American cars I've worked through this pay period and say your right, because that's what you want to hear, right? Can you ever be wrong? Maybe not in your own little world.

    Hey, I am an adult too! Woah!! Small world huh? I honestly don't give a rat's ass who you've ass kissed. You could of said you knew Enzo Ferrari himself and I would still say, so? I work with several master techs, I know several mechanics at the local speed shop that can make anything high performance, but do you see my jaw dropping? Do you see me in awe? Do you see me caring? No.

    The saying is, it's not who you know, but what you know. I may be a "wannabe" mechanic, but at least I am a mechanic. At least I work, at least I get my hands dirty, and at least, I know what the hell I'm talking about.

    You are a shame.<!-- Signature -->
     
  11. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from BMW M</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from 84FordMan</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from BMW M</i>
    <b>84FordMan,why do you put words into my mouth, asshole? I know that Lexus is a division of Toyota that why I said that Toyota=Lexus. And your specific mumbo jumbo about "putting the battery in the back seat" has no merit to it. And yes VW OVERALL constructs quality cars that are built to last. You don't know shit. And I'm an adult and I've had contacts with many top grade mechanics whom you "a supposed mechanic wannabe" would have to bow down to. And yes, Japanese automobiles are of the highest quality and they do give the least problems. OVERALL American cars give mechanics the most "business" and your an idiot if you deny that. And your point about depreciation means nothing because if you consider the % of depreciation between Euro and American cars, American cars have the higher depreciation rate. I'll give you an example: The Civic EX and the Grand Am are in the same price range (brand new). A 95 Grand Am costs $4000 CND while a 95 Civic EX cost $8000 with the same mileage and condition. This is just one example out of thousands I could give. And if you wanna debate this let's go outside this forum and see if anyone will agree with you about how the McLaren F1 is not a stock vehicle. In that case all Honda's are tuned, because Mugen provides parts for them. Your comment is ridiculous.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Waaaa... waaaa...waaaa.

    *Yawn*

    Funny how you avoid the extreme depreciation of Euro cars by saying American cars have a higher depreciation rate while backing it with no facts.

    It appears I am going to have to break this down for you. Lexus is a division of Toyota. Lexus is made at different plants than Toyotas. Different parts go into Lexus. Lexus is built up as a luxury vehicle, so COMMON SENSE and logic dictate more effort and attention are going to be directed at a Lexus than a Toyota. Right? Right.

    Your still using a British car to defend your German love? Tsk tsk.

    As for which cars give the more business, I guess I'll just turn a blind eye to all those Jap and Euro cars I worked on this pay period (2 weeks) and focus on the 6 American cars I've worked through this pay period and say your right, because that's what you want to hear, right? Can you ever be wrong? Maybe not in your own little world.

    Hey, I am an adult too! Woah!! Small world huh? I honestly don't give a rat's ass who you've ass kissed. You could of said you knew Enzo Ferrari himself and I would still say, so? I work with several master techs, I know several mechanics at the local speed shop that can make anything high performance, but do you see my jaw dropping? Do you see me in awe? Do you see me caring? No.

    The saying is, it's not who you know, but what you know. I may be a "wannabe" mechanic, but at least I am a mechanic. At least I work, at least I get my hands dirty, and at least, I know what the hell I'm talking about.

    You are a shame.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Once again you fail to READ what I have written! I wrote that LEXUS is a Division of Toyota, but I guess you were too blind to see it. Yes, Lexus makes higher quality luxury cars then Toyota, but Toyota is the Parent company of Lexus, but I guess your too retarded to realize that. Like Toyota, Honda has Acura, Nissan has Infiniti, and Ford has Lincoln; all of whom are luxury division of their respectable parent companies. And I don't give a shit about how greasy and smelly you get because I have more sources than you do, and I can guarantee that you know shit compared to them. Oh and one car company two you failed to mention as a "quality" builder is Volvo. For years Volvo has been rated as one of safest and longest lasting automobiles on the market. You "claim" you fixed up a couple of cars and you base your decision on that alone? Buddy, you gotta go to a broader perspective and see what other mechanics have experienced. I've spoken to dozens of mechanics who have "ALL" rated American Cars as the OVERALL inferior constructor. I'm not speaking of specific cars because the Viper is hand made and beautifully done and the Corvette is also constructed with pecision. I'm looking at it from an overall perspective. And if you're so damn patriotic that you can't agree that there are infact better cars out there then what "Americans" make, then you're a lost misguides cause. I bet if they offered you a koenigsegg CC or Bugatti Veyron 16/4 or McLaren F1 you would rather take some relatively inferior American car instead. For Shame! And the only reason you defend Jaguar is because it is "Ford" owned which goes to further show how you're Patriotism has blinded you from seeing FACTS. You think that I just love German cars? Sorry to burst your bubble but my favourite car is the Koenigsegg CC (a Swedish car). If you have any #$%#ing balls lets take this outide of the American Propaganda forum to the general comparison forum, and we'll see who agrees that American cars last longer, and have a higher quality build than Europeans. Judging from your Avatar (crossing out the Ferrari) your mind is obviously filled with shit. The Ford GT40 is still a concept car so don't get an orgasm yet. And if you think that the GT40 can kill a Ferrari, you wait till the F60 comes out. </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Baby lose his bottle?

    Apparently you still fail to understand that since Lexus is a division of Toyota, in these type of situations, is classified as another car maker. You still can't seem to accept the fact a Jap car, a British car, a Swede car and even Benz are rated higher BY WHO MATTERS!! I don't read about those "top mechanics" you swear you know in Car & Driver or Motor Trend, I read about who matters, who is reliable, someone who the industry looks to for solid, reliable numbers. That is JD Power & Associates. Your just bitching because JD Power has revealed how much of a problematic POS your BMWs are.

    Why can't I accept their are cars better than American cars? Uhhh I have dumbass. Maybe you haven't noticed for the past couple of replies but I've been praising several British and Japanese car makers WHO HAVE BEEN PROVEN BY JD POWER (Not your little mechanic butt buddies) to have better build quality THAN YOUR AND MY CARS!! Jesus Christ man.

    Again BMW M, I and no one else here give a #$%# who you know, because obviously you know nothing personally, all you know is what you pick up from their conversations. It's damn idiots like you that I have to throw out of the shop, idiots like you who think they know everything because they heard a few things. People who pester me while I'm working, claiming they know how to properly work on their vehicle, then why the hell do they bring it to me to fix it? Cause even idiots like you and them know, deep down, you need a "wannabe" mechanic to fix your shit because you don't know the difference between a voltage regulator or a master cylinder. So get off your high horse BMW M, you don't know everything and your not even in the field of mechanics, you just know what your daddy does for a living and know a few mechanics, does that make you a knowledgable mechanic? Hell no. You don't know what goes on in the shop. You'll never understand because your too much of a stuck up prick to get your hands dirty.

    Your right, if someone handed me the keys to one of those cars I would pick something else, not for the reasons you want to believe though. You know the repair costs for one of those? Know how many auto shops repair McLarens? I'm not a rich man, I couldn't afford it if any of those cars broke down. Yes I would pick some "inferior American" car, because overall repair bills would be less than a McLaren's.

    My mind filled with shit? Your one to talk. In case you don't remember, back in the 60s Ford, an inferior American car maker, ran your beloved Ferrari out of LeMans forever. That same inferior American car maker dominated the LeMans, for FOUR YEARS in a row with virtually the same car. Do I see BMW doing that? Not even close. Funny thing is, an inferior American car from 1968 (GT40 MK1 Gulf) is getting the same performance times as a 1995 Ferrari F50. As for the F60, don't count on it, it's virtually an F50, 0-60 in 3 seconds, 0-100 in 8 seconds.

    Funny thing is you swear I have shit in my head, while it spewing forth from your mouth. The 5.4L in the GT40 can be N/A to 625 HP and S/C to 750 HP, again don't see many BMW V8s hitting those numbers. Remember that GT40 on this website is the one going to be available to the public. Ford Motorsport (Who is taking the GT40 back to LeMans) will tune it out, along with the general public and if a ricey Supra can beat a Ferrari, I'm sure a true testament to old American muscle and an era for American dominance in racing can beat out a Ferrari. Now knowing you, your probably going to go find the fastest, most tuned Ferrari and say the GT40 can't beat it, that may be, but I said A Ferrari, not the fastest Ferrari.

    As for who lasts longer, I know several 1960s Mustangs that have survived 30 years with no major required mechanical work. Just like Lido said, where are the 50s and 60s BMWs? But as you said, no one cares about the past (Scorned eh?).<!-- Signature -->
     
  12. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from EliteWolverine</i>
    <b>bmw m....ur a moron buddy.

    first, where did i say they needed a oil changer??? thats right fck stick i didnt, they are in there becuz of tranny engine electrical steering, pump failures, shall i go on...the list is bigger

    Second, after reading ur post on Ford and Mercedes, is just down right funny and shows u know nothing of cars...Ford was made cheap and easy becuz for one reason...every one was supposed to own one, ford invented the assembly line, mass production, and guess what if u look at the mercedes and ford sales, as a all time number, ford did great hell, they probably triple if not ten times the car sales in overall time...not everyone could afford a mercedes becuz they were expensive hand built limited number of cars, ford was mass produced cheap and everyone had one. Ford's car costed less than 500 dollars when it came out, hell i even think they costed like 100dollars, he made them cheap so the workers of ford could have one and everyone in america could have one....Not oh let us build them by hand and this and that...Without ford companies wouldnt be alive today.

    Third(about reliability):
    have u noticed the kind of people that drive a ford and a bmw...Ford people in the farms and outbacks and deserts and working enviorments and families and teens and just plain working people...their idea of the car when they get it is that its supposed to do everything, go over deserts and through the woods...hell people dont even wash it becuz its going to get dirty, its the work horse of the family, hence its beat up and put in harsher conditions than other cars, hence why they might come in with a broken this or that, becuz the owner didnt know better...
    Now when people get bmw's they dont even drive them in the fcking rain becuz they are affaird that they are going to get it wet or somebody is going to break it or crash into them...the oil is changed reagulary for fear of paying a outragous costs of imported parts, and having a certified bmw only mechanic...hell they wont go more than 5mph over a speed bump for fear of having to aline it...also do u think their parents are going to let a teenager drive the family luxo i think not, they give them the cheaper car and they go and run it into the ground...its like they dont want to go fast they dont drive it in the rain or snow, they dont drive it on dirt roads or in the boons or through corn fields kind of a job...its not the work horse, its taken care of becuz its considered a luxo car, when compared to other cars.

    Now when u think about it its true, ur not going to drive a 45k car into the ground and make it the work horse of the family, but u can do that to a 20k american car, becuz if u add up the qualities of the two american cars u can get for the beamer it equals the quality of the beamer, the american car is the work horse while the beamer is the baby. So who is going to last longer the work horse that is beatn to shit or the one that is treated like a baby??

    Oh yea, as for any bmw beating a ford out, lets see a 35k beamer beat a roush mustang stage 3, or a saleen s-281, or how about a mustang cobra for 31k? thats right no beamer costs that much and can equal the performance....bwtf vipers out hold any bmw on the market out excellerate...and so forth.

    One more thing before i put u down some more, the Viper vs. the Porshe 911 argument...dude the porshe pulls a 0-60 time of 3.6 vs the 4flat of the viper...but do u know what happens after that? thats right the viper wins to 100 and beats the porshe to th 1/4mile has a faster trap speed, and guess what in one mile it does 169mph compared to the lagging 150's of the porshe, and third it beats the awd porshe around a track...think im lying, Motor Trend 1997 issue of the high-speed shoot-out when a viper and porshe and ferrari and vette supra 3000gt nsx-t were all compared...viper took 7 out of ten tests...with the other 3 coming in second...one of them was the Track times, viper won and beat the ferrari, and another was 1/4mile slalom skidpad...shall i go on to see how it embarressed the proshe.

    Sorry buddy, america tought u how to build cars, and we still teaching u today.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    You complain about the Bimmer costing too much, alright. Let's compare some equal costing "affordable" production cars. Civic vs Escort. They are both built for the working class and the Civic wins hands down in terms of reliability, construction, and RESALE value. And your point about how people "baby" their Bimmers and thus that's the reason why they last so long is bullshit! Ya it is true that people take care of their Bimmers but have you heard of the affordable everday use 3 series. People use those in the same fashion as any other affordable American car and they easily outlast American cars. And just because people "baby" an expensive car it doesn't mean that it can't take abuse. The Rolls-Royce is guaranteed to not need a tune up in 20 years after its purchase without people babying it. Why do you think that Bimmers and cost more than affordable American cars or even an everyday VW driver? You get you pay for: QUALITY at a higher price. And who cares about quarter mile times of the viper. The Viper can never outhandle a 911 GT2. Let's take both cars to the race track and see what happens. You know what I'm going to start a thread in the general comparison forum and let's see which car will win the battle of GT2 vs. Viper and Euro quality vs. American quality.
    <!-- Signature -->
     
  13. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from 84FordMan</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from BMW M</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from 84FordMan</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from BMW M</i>
    <b>84FordMan,why do you put words into my mouth, asshole? I know that Lexus is a division of Toyota that why I said that Toyota=Lexus. And your specific mumbo jumbo about "putting the battery in the back seat" has no merit to it. And yes VW OVERALL constructs quality cars that are built to last. You don't know shit. And I'm an adult and I've had contacts with many top grade mechanics whom you "a supposed mechanic wannabe" would have to bow down to. And yes, Japanese automobiles are of the highest quality and they do give the least problems. OVERALL American cars give mechanics the most "business" and your an idiot if you deny that. And your point about depreciation means nothing because if you consider the % of depreciation between Euro and American cars, American cars have the higher depreciation rate. I'll give you an example: The Civic EX and the Grand Am are in the same price range (brand new). A 95 Grand Am costs $4000 CND while a 95 Civic EX cost $8000 with the same mileage and condition. This is just one example out of thousands I could give. And if you wanna debate this let's go outside this forum and see if anyone will agree with you about how the McLaren F1 is not a stock vehicle. In that case all Honda's are tuned, because Mugen provides parts for them. Your comment is ridiculous.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Waaaa... waaaa...waaaa.

    *Yawn*

    Funny how you avoid the extreme depreciation of Euro cars by saying American cars have a higher depreciation rate while backing it with no facts.

    It appears I am going to have to break this down for you. Lexus is a division of Toyota. Lexus is made at different plants than Toyotas. Different parts go into Lexus. Lexus is built up as a luxury vehicle, so COMMON SENSE and logic dictate more effort and attention are going to be directed at a Lexus than a Toyota. Right? Right.

    Your still using a British car to defend your German love? Tsk tsk.

    As for which cars give the more business, I guess I'll just turn a blind eye to all those Jap and Euro cars I worked on this pay period (2 weeks) and focus on the 6 American cars I've worked through this pay period and say your right, because that's what you want to hear, right? Can you ever be wrong? Maybe not in your own little world.

    Hey, I am an adult too! Woah!! Small world huh? I honestly don't give a rat's ass who you've ass kissed. You could of said you knew Enzo Ferrari himself and I would still say, so? I work with several master techs, I know several mechanics at the local speed shop that can make anything high performance, but do you see my jaw dropping? Do you see me in awe? Do you see me caring? No.

    The saying is, it's not who you know, but what you know. I may be a "wannabe" mechanic, but at least I am a mechanic. At least I work, at least I get my hands dirty, and at least, I know what the hell I'm talking about.

    You are a shame.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Once again you fail to READ what I have written! I wrote that LEXUS is a Division of Toyota, but I guess you were too blind to see it. Yes, Lexus makes higher quality luxury cars then Toyota, but Toyota is the Parent company of Lexus, but I guess your too retarded to realize that. Like Toyota, Honda has Acura, Nissan has Infiniti, and Ford has Lincoln; all of whom are luxury division of their respectable parent companies. And I don't give a shit about how greasy and smelly you get because I have more sources than you do, and I can guarantee that you know shit compared to them. Oh and one car company two you failed to mention as a "quality" builder is Volvo. For years Volvo has been rated as one of safest and longest lasting automobiles on the market. You "claim" you fixed up a couple of cars and you base your decision on that alone? Buddy, you gotta go to a broader perspective and see what other mechanics have experienced. I've spoken to dozens of mechanics who have "ALL" rated American Cars as the OVERALL inferior constructor. I'm not speaking of specific cars because the Viper is hand made and beautifully done and the Corvette is also constructed with pecision. I'm looking at it from an overall perspective. And if you're so damn patriotic that you can't agree that there are infact better cars out there then what "Americans" make, then you're a lost misguides cause. I bet if they offered you a koenigsegg CC or Bugatti Veyron 16/4 or McLaren F1 you would rather take some relatively inferior American car instead. For Shame! And the only reason you defend Jaguar is because it is "Ford" owned which goes to further show how you're Patriotism has blinded you from seeing FACTS. You think that I just love German cars? Sorry to burst your bubble but my favourite car is the Koenigsegg CC (a Swedish car). If you have any #$%#ing balls lets take this outide of the American Propaganda forum to the general comparison forum, and we'll see who agrees that American cars last longer, and have a higher quality build than Europeans. Judging from your Avatar (crossing out the Ferrari) your mind is obviously filled with shit. The Ford GT40 is still a concept car so don't get an orgasm yet. And if you think that the GT40 can kill a Ferrari, you wait till the F60 comes out. </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Baby lose his bottle?

    Apparently you still fail to understand that since Lexus is a division of Toyota, in these type of situations, is classified as another car maker. You still can't seem to accept the fact a Jap car, a British car, a Swede car and even Benz are rated higher BY WHO MATTERS!! I don't read about those "top mechanics" you swear you know in Car & Driver or Motor Trend, I read about who matters, who is reliable, someone who the industry looks to for solid, reliable numbers. That is JD Power & Associates. Your just bitching because JD Power has revealed how much of a problematic POS your BMWs are.

    Why can't I accept their are cars better than American cars? Uhhh I have dumbass. Maybe you haven't noticed for the past couple of replies but I've been praising several British and Japanese car makers WHO HAVE BEEN PROVEN BY JD POWER (Not your little mechanic butt buddies) to have better build quality THAN YOUR AND MY CARS!! Jesus Christ man.

    Again BMW M, I and no one else here give a #$%# who you know, because obviously you know nothing personally, all you know is what you pick up from their conversations. It's damn idiots like you that I have to throw out of the shop, idiots like you who think they know everything because they heard a few things. People who pester me while I'm working, claiming they know how to properly work on their vehicle, then why the hell do they bring it to me to fix it? Cause even idiots like you and them know, deep down, you need a "wannabe" mechanic to fix your shit because you don't know the difference between a voltage regulator or a master cylinder. So get off your high horse BMW M, you don't know everything and your not even in the field of mechanics, you just know what your daddy does for a living and know a few mechanics, does that make you a knowledgable mechanic? Hell no. You don't know what goes on in the shop. You'll never understand because your too much of a stuck up prick to get your hands dirty.

    Your right, if someone handed me the keys to one of those cars I would pick something else, not for the reasons you want to believe though. You know the repair costs for one of those? Know how many auto shops repair McLarens? I'm not a rich man, I couldn't afford it if any of those cars broke down. Yes I would pick some "inferior American" car, because overall repair bills would be less than a McLaren's.

    My mind filled with shit? Your one to talk. In case you don't remember, back in the 60s Ford, an inferior American car maker, ran your beloved Ferrari out of LeMans forever. That same inferior American car maker dominated the LeMans, for FOUR YEARS in a row with virtually the same car. Do I see BMW doing that? Not even close. Funny thing is, an inferior American car from 1968 (GT40 MK1 Gulf) is getting the same performance times as a 1995 Ferrari F50. As for the F60, don't count on it, it's virtually an F50, 0-60 in 3 seconds, 0-100 in 8 seconds.

    Funny thing is you swear I have shit in my head, while it spewing forth from your mouth. The 5.4L in the GT40 can be N/A to 625 HP and S/C to 750 HP, again don't see many BMW V8s hitting those numbers. Remember that GT40 on this website is the one going to be available to the public. Ford Motorsport (Who is taking the GT40 back to LeMans) will tune it out, along with the general public and if a ricey Supra can beat a Ferrari, I'm sure a true testament to old American muscle and an era for American dominance in racing can beat out a Ferrari. Now knowing you, your probably going to go find the fastest, most tuned Ferrari and say the GT40 can't beat it, that may be, but I said A Ferrari, not the fastest Ferrari.

    As for who lasts longer, I know several 1960s Mustangs that have survived 30 years with no major required mechanical work. Just like Lido said, where are the 50s and 60s BMWs? But as you said, no one cares about the past (Scorned eh?).</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Once again you put words into my mouth and your blindness fails to see what I wrote. I NEVER ranked BMW as the car with the least amount of mechanical problems. I've been saying all along that the Japanese build reliable cars. If you go back to my earlier post you will see that I ranked HONDA as the most reliable car company. And in the post that you just quoted, I mentioned that Volvo's have always been known for their build quality and longitivity. But did you read that no. You came crying back like a baby put words into my mouth. And no I wasn't "scorned" because BMW was a new car company in the 50's and 60's and they have vastly improved their engineering, build quality, and performance. Ford started building cars 100 years ago, and how reliable was a Ford automobile when it first came out? At the present, BMW is a quality engineered car. And your point about the budget shows how stupid you truly are. You said,"If I were offered a McLaren F1 I would take the more inferior American Supercar because the F1 has higher maitanance bill." That is the stupidest argument I have ever heard! The F1 has a $1 million dollar price tag and you could sell the car after it being handed down to you; and then you could buy every American Muscle plus a nice house along with it. You mind set is quite disturbing. And the comparison was never between the connection I have with my mechanics and what professional magazines say. The comparison was between your monkey knowledge and my multiple connections. Ofcourse the guys at Car and Driver and Road and Track are the most credible sources. And I don't think anyone of them will agree that American Cars break down compared to European Cars and Japanese cars. And the GT40 is fast but it will never outhandle the F50 or the upcoming F60.<!-- Signature -->
     
  14. that depends on what you call define as a better engine, we were talking about hp though.....
     
  15. look, i am trinational, American, Bahamian and Scotish and i live in the Bahamas, and right now i am going to school in Brock university, i like some american cars, now, this is the question, when will americans learn to make engines, right???, well they can, they just dont have the sense to put them in the cars that need them, that simple, thats what i was saying. all i want frrom the americans is to puta decent engine like some that u mentioned to put in the mustang. right now the best engines that come stock in cars are made either in Europe or in Asia. As proven by the annjual engine test held in Europe, where all car engines, american included caome to. And ithe best gas engine rated was that of the M3, and the best diesel engine was the 3 litre Diesel from BMW. period. FULL STOP. that is all i wanted to say, if u can prove me wrong on this then i am sorry, and there is one decent engine out there, the LS-6 it aint bad, but it still needs to make 100bhp/litre to make a statement. peace<!-- Signature -->
     
  16. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ENGINES NOT CARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<!-- Signature -->
     
  17. Define a good engine?
     
  18. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from OzyF1</i>
    <b>84FordMan, hahahaha i must admit you did a good job doing your homework............a homework that will only prove that you are yet just another kid who think knows about cars. Guess what, all of the time you spent typing that big list was as unrewarding as your time being here in this forum. I will explain to you why, nice and simple, so that you can understand what i'm saying. All of those cars are racers in their own category. The engines that supposedly are underpowered to you are restricted by regulations and and governing bodies in their racing leagues. In case you dont know what that means, they CANNOT do any better because there are rules for which they have to apply. When was the last time you saw an american car go to a rally championship???A LONG TIME AGO, OR EVEN BETTER....NEVER!!!!!!!So kid....still wanna try to impress me??????Come up with something else ok???

    As for you Laccoca-whoever, i'm not impressed by the lack of respect you show towards other members. The fact that i am new to this site does not give you the right to come to a conclusion that i am not experienced in the industry.Next time dont underestimate other people's experience ok???
    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    My intention was never to impress you, just bury you deeper and I have succeeded. As for that list being very unrewarding, sorry, but it was, look at all those people argeeing with me and adding to the list, even further burying you.

    I am just another kid who thinks I know something about cars? Better that than you, a child who knows nothing about cars at all. You have proved that time and time again, by saying American engines suck and Jap engines don't come stock from the factory with turbos and just generally being immature and keep changing the focus to something else when you have been proven so throughly wrong. Even if you had 20X the brain cells and understanding of how a car works, you still wouldn't know more than me, but then again 20 X 0 is still 0. <IMG SRC="http://www.supercars.net/servlets/cMsg/html/emoticons/smile.gif">

    All of them are racers in their own class? What class would that be? POS? What rules would that be? No cars over 300 HP?

    As for American cars at rally championships, you seem to pride yourself as a rally expert. Well are you so quick to forget Colin McRae or Carlos Sainz? Both driving Fords in the 2001 World Rally Championship. Or even Touhino, also driving Fords in rally championships. Since when is 2001 A LONG TIME AGO? Tsk tsk, OzyF1.. your slipping deeper and deeper, so why don't you stop while your an ass? <!-- Signature -->
     
  19. key word: performance enthusiasts.

    thats my point......u dont care much about those extras, but some do.

    and besides a lexus can't sprint from 0-60 in 4.8 like the M5.<!-- Signature -->
     
  20. Re: When will BMW learn how to make engines?????

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from BMW M</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from stairway2heaven</i>
    <b>this is really funny.........how can anyone say anyone was proved wrong.

    to LIDO and 84FORDMAN.....u guys keeps asking where the technology is in european cars when they cost so much yet have less HP.

    why are you guys basing a car's worth just by its power or engine size or performance? i assume both of you are mature adults, so look past all those performance figures and realize that price isn't a result of power alone.

    these euro cars have genuine leather hand-stitched heated seats, leather dashes, GPS....the whole 9 yards. and most importantly, you're paying for the badge.

    now, im not saying american cars suck, coz they dont....ppl who say that dont appreciate what the big 3 have done during the 60's and 70's.....and now. they ARE awesome companies with awesome engineering achomplishments.

    all we're asking is that u guys look at the whole picture and not just whats under the hood and on the dyno.

    euro cars my not have alot of power for the buck, but the dude who has 1 wants more than just power.....he/she wants clss.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Don't waste your breathe on these numb skulls, they have no idea what the word CLASS means. Locca Fucka, you can keep driving your poor man's sports car. Your earlier mindless examples of price and bhp mean shit. Take that to the main forum and you will be humiliated. In the real world safety, handling, luxury, ride quality, style, technology and ACCELERATION come to mind. The Mustang GT has 385 bhp yet only goes 0-60 in 5.5 seconds at best. The M3 has 333 bhp and goes 0-60 in 4.7 seconds. So before you mention mindless bhp and price think! Oh, I'm sorry you're not capable of thinking.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->



    Did I hurt you ?

    The problem is that I know Mustangs and BMW and you don't.

    The Mustang GT doesn't have 385 HP. It have 260hp !

    A Mustang GT conv. 27,615 (260hp) (muscle car)
    A BMW M3 conv. 54,545 (333hp) (daddy car)

    YOU SAVE US$ 26,930.00 ! Are they on the same class ?

    You lose every time you speak...

    Like I say and you was unable to read :

    If you wanna lose with "class":
    BMW M3 conv. 54,545 (333hp) (daddy car)
    Corvette conv. 48,380 (350hp) (sport car)

    The AMERICAN car wins:
    you have 27 more hp and you SAVE 6,165 ! The corvette goes from 0 to 60 in 4.5 sec and I repeat you SAVE 6,165 to be in a sport car convertible and not in a daddy car !

    READ, READ ! Research something ! Don't "shame" yourself ! (LOL!)
    <!-- Signature -->
     
  21. Re: When will BMW learn how to make engines?????

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Lido Iacocca</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from BMW M</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from stairway2heaven</i>
    <b>this is really funny.........how can anyone say anyone was proved wrong.

    to LIDO and 84FORDMAN.....u guys keeps asking where the technology is in european cars when they cost so much yet have less HP.

    why are you guys basing a car's worth just by its power or engine size or performance? i assume both of you are mature adults, so look past all those performance figures and realize that price isn't a result of power alone.

    these euro cars have genuine leather hand-stitched heated seats, leather dashes, GPS....the whole 9 yards. and most importantly, you're paying for the badge.

    now, im not saying american cars suck, coz they dont....ppl who say that dont appreciate what the big 3 have done during the 60's and 70's.....and now. they ARE awesome companies with awesome engineering achomplishments.

    all we're asking is that u guys look at the whole picture and not just whats under the hood and on the dyno.

    euro cars my not have alot of power for the buck, but the dude who has 1 wants more than just power.....he/she wants clss.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Don't waste your breathe on these numb skulls, they have no idea what the word CLASS means. Locca Fucka, you can keep driving your poor man's sports car. Your earlier mindless examples of price and bhp mean shit. Take that to the main forum and you will be humiliated. In the real world safety, handling, luxury, ride quality, style, technology and ACCELERATION come to mind. The Mustang GT has 385 bhp yet only goes 0-60 in 5.5 seconds at best. The M3 has 333 bhp and goes 0-60 in 4.7 seconds. So before you mention mindless bhp and price think! Oh, I'm sorry you're not capable of thinking.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->



    Did I hurt you ?

    The problem is that I know Mustangs and BMW and you don't.

    The Mustang GT doesn't have 385 HP. It have 260hp !

    A Mustang GT conv. 27,615 (260hp) (muscle car)
    A BMW M3 conv. 54,545 (333hp) (daddy car)

    YOU SAVE US$ 26,930.00 ! Are they on the same class ?

    You lose every time you speak...

    Like I say and you was unable to read :

    If you wanna lose with "class":
    BMW M3 conv. 54,545 (333hp) (daddy car)
    Corvette conv. 48,380 (350hp) (sport car)

    The AMERICAN car wins:
    you have 27 more hp and you SAVE 6,165 ! The corvette goes from 0 to 60 in 4.5 sec and I repeat you SAVE 6,165 to be in a sport car convertible and not in a daddy car !

    READ, READ ! Research something ! Don't "shame" yourself ! (LOL!)
    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    The only thing you should be laughing at is the fact that you think a mustang is better than a Bimmer for the price. You're so #$%#ed up that you don't even include import fees. If you buy the M3 from Germany it doesn't cost 54,545 USD. In Germany not only will M3 outperform the Mustang, but the inclusion of the import fees on the Mustang will make the M3 seem like the better bang for your buck. This tuned SVT Mustang has 390 bhp and it will still get smoked by an M3!<!-- Signature -->
     
  22. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from stairway2heaven</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from ch1c4n3</i>
    <b>quite a discussion ive dipped my feet in2 here....

    browndoggie, i feel we've had this discussion b4, but u cant really use dragsters as an example since america is the only country that takes part in it, its a bit like saying "oooh, look at the Lakers, best basketball team in the world, that makes america the best"....erm, no, basketball is an american sport so u SHOULD b the best anyway

    back 2 cars, ive heard so much rubbish in the 15 pages of this forum it makes me laugh, so many made up statistics it almost defeats the purpose of putting ppl right

    hp/litre is irrelevant, ESPECIALLY between NA and super/turbo cars, a supercharger isnt just a 'thing' that aids performance, its not a category of engine on its own, a mildly supercharged engine like this cannot b compared to a highly turbocharged engine like an Evo 6, for example, because they run at different boost levels, different compression ratios, and different combustion chamber capacities

    as for america inventing performance, in the 1950s look no further than the Jaguar XK120/150 and the Mercedes 300SL as the benchmarks for performance, 150mph in the 50s, show me an american car 2 beat THAT browndoggie, i think the europeans invented performance personally

    into the 60s look at the lamborghini miura, in SV spec it could run to the high 170s, show me a muscle car to compete

    today, BMW make the finest engines, 2 take the X5 4.6iS as an example....4.6-litre V8, NA, 347hp, 354 lbft....show me an american 4.6-litre to compete

    Murcielago, 6.2-litre V12, NA, 580hp, 480 lbft....soundly thrashes any similar sized american car

    of course, im using incredible expensive cars (well not that much for an X5) to prove my point, but that just shows that u get what u pay for, is it just that america doesnt bother making true exotics?

    if u want cheap performance, ONLY american will do, if u want the ultimate driving experience, european is the only way 2 go, and thats always been the case</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    nicely put.

    and 84Fordman, don't even think of getting Canada into this arguement, coz' if you do, I can go mouthing off all night why we're the better part of north america. you may have all the car companies, but we Canandians don't use black people for target practice. take care, but watch were you drag this....</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    LOL all I do is notice BMW_M's grammar and how it conflicts with his "partriotism" to the US and all Americans get stereotyped as racists by a Canadian... lovely, #$%#in' lovely. What did I say to trigger you to say that? I quoted from a cartoon beloved around the world, except for some countries where it's viewed as a symbol of our "Great Satanism", and stated the obvious fact Canada doesn't have a car maker based there. Then suddenly all the US vs Canada and Canada vs Entire World propogandist bullshit gets thrown around again.

    Thank you stairway2heaven, #$%#ing thank you.<!-- Signature -->
     
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  24. Hello People<!-- Signature -->
     
  25. The only thing im going to comment on is the thing about being patriotic....What a load of horseshit.

    Okay, Although all my grandparents are from Germany, my immediate family is about the most patriotic family there is. My father was in the army and served 2 years Vietnam despite his objections to the legitamacy of the war. We are amazing world and US history buffs. I won numerous state wide American history awards in elementery, middle, and high school, and know more about american history than most college history majors, my minor is in US history. We are avid voters, and love america as much as anyone. On the forth of July we display our 14 differnt official reproduction US national and military flags...from the 13 state original flag, to the Dont Tred on Me Revolutionary war flag, to the new stars and strips. I love america as much as anyone, and i feel it is the best country in the world, and probably in the history of the world post-Roman states.
    However, ever car i have every bought has been Japanese. BTW i did have an 84RX7 that i put a 350 Chevy V8 into though a few years ago, hehehehe.

    See, what many ignorent people dont understand is, that "buying american" doesnt nessisarily help the economy. Some stonch isolationist republicans believe its best to have as little foriegn trade as possible, and be as self dependent as possible. Its obvious if we needed to, we could. However, the need for international trade is crutial to our economy, and without it, the rest of the world would surpase us tremendously in technology and production efficancy. If there was some sort of bug in Japanese or German engineered products, and they all self destructed at one time....the US economy would be up shit creek without a paddle. Japanese autos have GREATLY boosted our working, and comuter capabilities. The influence of German, British, and Japanese engineered products has been EXTEAMLY important to the US industry. The same can be said about other countries....without the US influence, and technological tools in their country, they would be far behind. But seriously, if you really think you are a patriot just because you buy american, forget it, that doesnt mean shit. This day and age, the trade situation and economical situation is such that the consumer DOES NOT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT BUYING AMERICAN if they dont like the product. If they like another product better, buy it....AND if they like the american product better....buy it.
    Its important to have pride in those things produced by your nation,...and american car enthusiast have reason to be proud, as they make many amazing cars. However, thats not to say americans should nessisary buy american cars reguardless of their prefernce to the different autos....thats stupid, and a completely out of date way of thinking.
    The cars i have bought have been based on a ratio of cost, availabilty, performance, reliability, quality....But mainly, just that that cars charector was one i was looking for. If the Dodge Razor comes out....BELIEVE ME, i will be the first on in line to buy it!! If i had a chance to buy a C5 vette, it would be mine in a heartbeat. And if G.I.Joe sees a German or Japanese car he REALLY likes, then he should buy it, and shouldnt think twice about how loyal that makes him to america.

    So basicly....if any dumb fool sees me in a Toyota, and thinks he is a more patriotic american because he drives a Ford and i drive a Jap car.....he can jump in a lake....because i can almost garuntee most of the time that i am more concerned and knowledge about american history and politics, and am more involved than he.
     

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