Re: When will the americans learn how to make engines??????

Discussion in '2003 Ford Mustang SVT Cobra' started by snyper, Aug 9, 2002.

  1. the point of this post is to shut EVERYONE up. arguing about which country produces the best engine is incredibly irrelivent and quite childish. everyone has their own tastes and likes. it's like trying to argue what is the best food or what country is the best to live in. there is no best, simple as that. it is impossible to create a unanimous uniform decision about this.

    the only reason i could see to do this is, yes, it can be quite fun to debate this back and forth and i usually do take the side of the europeans(gotta love that sl55...mmmmm), but that doesn't mean i say the sl55 is the BEST. i just say how good it is without making fun of american engines, because americans also make some damn good engines. my family owns a 2001 merc c240 and also a buick lesabre(company car). which do i like better? the merc of course, but the buick is also damn good. that 3800 v6 is so sweet.

    so in conclusion, europeans make excellent engines, but so do americans and the japanese. i can name plenty of cars from all three worldly locations that contain amazing engines.

    Europe:
    m5, m3, sl55, sl600, etc..

    America:
    z06, viper, this mustang, s7, etc...

    Japan:
    skyline(drool), WRX, SC430, supra, etc...

    oh and as for racing, F1, LeMans, and rally racing rule
    the only reason i don't like NASCAR is not because i don't like the cars. those 750 horse winston cup stockers are sweet. it's because all they do is go in a circle...gah how boring. I simply don't understand how it could be so popular.
    F1 is the most technologically advanced form of racing in the world and, in my opinion, requires the most amount of skill(tied with rally racing). Navigating a twisty, tight course is very interesing and exciting to me. or seeing rally cars sliding in complete control around dirt or snow courses is quite amazing. i'd like to see what would happen of you put a NASCAR driver in an F1 car or a rally car. he'd pee his pants.
     
  2. There is no compare betweeen Ford and Germany car companies, Ford and other American companies are much better

    Nissan developed much more and is the greatest company in all over the world
     
  3. actually some drivers do go from nascar to cart or f1 or back and forth.

    just becuz u go around a twisty road in a f1 car doesnt mean its the best...hell they have traction control for crying out loud.

    drivers have already stated that CART is harder to drive in becuz the cars are so basic and powerfull....F1 the one with the most money wins, hell the car of a F1 costs more than a whole season of cart.

    Granted those drivers in any league is a very experienced driver.

    what happens when a f1 driver goes to nascar? they would cry. lets see them do 220mph three wide through a turn only inches from the other persons bumber.

    the last car in nascar is about 2secs off.

    in F1 second place is that far off...thats the difference.

    Dont get me wrong all those drivers are damn experienced, and CART dont allow all the kewl gizmos that f1 allows...thats the only reason. F1 has no money cap, cart does, f1 has no tech rules, cart has so many.

    But back to the discussion...thats totally right though no company makes the better engine(except in some cases)....but u can argue which engine is the better choice or things like that.

    and for nissan being the best....well ur entitled to ur own opinion...lol.<!-- Signature -->
     
  4. ch1c4n3,
    You can't say let's compare engine designs to gauge a company's engineering prowess, and then ignore cost. For every car there is a target audience and a target price. 99.9% of car buyers have a budget in mind, and are looking to get the most for their money. The target price is the Engineer's "out of bounds" so to speak. The lower the target price, the less they have to work with, and the more difficult their job becomes. Especially when it comes to performance vehicles.

    Chevrolet's LS6 engine is 5.7 liters, it has 405 horsepower, 400 ft/lbs of torque, and it gets 19/28mpg city/highway. The entire car (with the big American high displacement engine) only weighs 3100 lbs. This is also a car that corners like it's on rails and stops on a dime. It is the same car that has proven to stand up the $120,000 Porsche 911 Turbo in road tests.

    The target buyer? Typically middle aged men who only want to spend $50,000 on a sports car.

    I know you only want to talk about engines alone, so I'll tell you why I threw in the extras. After adding the expense of the superb race inspired suspension, breaks, wheels/tires, traction control/active handling/competition mode, and every other electrical goodie (of which there is plenty), they STILL had enough money left over for the beautiful LS6 engine.

    If that is not an engineering masterpiece, I don't know what is. <!-- Signature -->
     
  5. I'm sorry, but just calling the LS6 engine "very good" still isn't doing it justice. Name another 405 horsepower, 400 ft/lbs of torque engine that is lightweight gets 28 mpg highway.
    That engine is truely amazing. Yes BMW makes fine engines. But so does Ford, Dodge, and GM.

    Now if you're wanted to compare the engine designs of cars like the BMW M5 to the Ford Escort, take that sh!t somewhere else. YOU HAVE TO COMPARE SIMILARLY PRICED CARS. Also, you might want to check out the Cadillac Cien concept. Nothing like GM's displacement on demand technology. It's running 6 cylinders and all 12 engage when you need it. It's a 7.5 liter engine producing 750 horsepower. I guess you could say it's a 3.75 liter sometimes, and a 7.5 liter when you need it to be. <!-- Signature -->
     
  6. so just becuz BMW spends more money on their engines they cost more...wow u learn somethign stupid everyday.

    its not the money though it does help alot....its the engineers.

    sure money might get u the most this and that.

    but look at cosworth engines. They have less than half the budgets as the like of toyota ferrari porshe honda and the like when it comes to making racing engines. But they are dubt the best engines in the world...hell their engines still require craftsman ship from a human that even machines cant do.

    And despite their budgets, they are seen more times at the podium than almost any other car racing engine out there.

    But yet their budget is sht compared to the other teams.

    Money does help, but that does not mean that they are better just becuz of it.

    We are still waiting for BMW to make a engine like the Z06's on a budget that GM engineers have for the engine...but they cant, so they need all that money just to come close.

    am i saying that BMW sucks, no im just saying that just becuz bmw has the money to spend on the engine becuz their cars cost way more doesnt mean that their engines are better. Just look at the z8, 128k price tag and still cant beat the viper rt10 or the z06...cars costing less than 70k....peace.<!-- Signature -->
     
  7. Yes the Cien has an engine, as I understood it, it was a working model at the show, just like the GT40 was a working model at the show as well.

    Displacement-on-Demand does exist Caddy or Buick (Can't remember which) used this back in the 80s in a few of their cars, it had a few problems and thus removed.

    BMW makes the best engines in the world? BWAHAHAHA. Check their average eight cylinder engine, barely pushing 300 HP at the wheels. I know some Ford/GM six cylinders capable of doing that easily. There's even a Jaguar powered by a six cylinder engine pushing over 400 HP at the wheels. If Jaguar can do it, why can't BMW?

    Lambo vs Chevy.. just look at your numbers again. You can tune the LS1 to do 530 HP and 450 ft-lbs, so if an eight cylinder can do that with a little work, why does Lambo need four more cylinders?

    Japanese make good engines? Again, it is to laugh. Japanese produce heavy, low-horsepower, low-torque engines. The inline six in the Skyline R34 (Sub-120 HP engine without turbos) makes it as heavy as this Cobra, which features a friggin' cast-iron eight cylinder!

    Same displacement as a Jap engine? I'm sorry I don't think America makes sub-150 cubic inch engines (Actually the smallest is 173 cubic inches for Ford/GM in a six cylinder), but I did find a Ford 140 cubic inch 2.3L four cylinder that can easily push 200 HP NATURALLY. Show me a Jap 140 cubic inch four cylinder doing that WITHOUT turbos.

    <IMG SRC="http://www.supercars.net/servlets/cMsg/html/emoticons/smile.gif"><!-- Signature -->
     
  8. As for why we don't use V12s? We don't need them. Why use a V12 when you can't get the same power out of a big block V8?

    Give me $30,000 and I can reproduce the Countach, but with much better performance numbers than your precious V12 Diablo SV, out of a V8.

    $12,995 for Main Body, Inner & Outer Doors Hinged, Hood and deck lids hinged, Front & Rear Bumpers, Removable Roof, Rear Wing & Rear Grill, Interior w/ 2000 look dash & Console, Front Lens Covers, Red Tail light surrounds, Rear Turn Signals, Mirrors, and Trunk Hinges.

    $3,000 for either Ford 351 Windsor 5.8L V8 or Ford 429 SCJ/R 4v V8 or 460 7.5L V8

    $5,000 for remaining parts

    $9,005 in modifications
    <!-- Signature -->
     
  9. I think we can safely say the americans will NEVER be able to create a decent engine. And they cant even dream of creating a engine such as the 1 owned by a Aston Martin V8(thats 550hp)

    What a beast<!-- Signature -->
     
  10. Chevy builds some of the worlds top class engines. the LS1 was named # 1 world wide. As of right now I am running a baby cam and I am making 440 HP .. Hows that for #'s?

    <!-- Signature -->
     
  11. come on now 84FordMan, if we're going 2 have an educated discussion, at least tell the truth will u?

    bmw V8s barely pushing 300hp???....745i = 333hp, X5 4.6 = 347hp, M5/Z8 = 400hp

    if u KNOW ford/gm 6cyl engines pushing 300hp stock then NAME THEM

    by Jaguar, r u referring to the XJ220? come on, hardly an average car, its TWIN-TURBO for a start, and is actually a racecar engine (from the xjr-8 gtp IMSA prototype i think)....if ur not referring to that then NO, jag dont make 400hp 6cyl engines

    u can get 530hp from a naturally aspirated 5.7-litre Z06 engine can u?....r u sure about that? cant say ive ever seen it happen

    the Diablo SE Jota actually had 595hp from its NA 5.7-litre.....r u now gonna say that a tuned NA Z06 can get 595hp from its 5.7 V8 ???

    u gotta b shitting me daring 2 take the piss out of the nissan skyline??....sub 120hp w/out turbo?...HAHAHAHA, its a bloody racecar engine designed specifically for group-N japanese touring cars, its probably 1 of the best engines ever designed, its conservatively limited to 8000rpm stock, running on a pathetic 11.5psi boost it'll happily push 400hp

    low power/low torque?.....have u seen the lexus SC430 engine, 300hp & 325 lbft from 4.3-litres is a damn good engine

    show u a jap 150cu.in. 4cyl pushing 200hp with no turbos?....have u heard of a car called a Honda S2000 ?!?!?!

    come on!!...if ur gonna argue, at least give me a challenge
     
  12. #312 Mantronix, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    BMW M...You stated that Euro engines are superior to American engines and concluded that Euro/Jap/German cars rule the racing scene and that Cosworth is paid by Ford to make engines, and that they are British anyways and wanted someone to demonstrate how good Americans are at making engines: I will give you just one example out of so many that will cloud your sunshine on some of your beliefs directly from Supercars.net
    " Although not many original peices can be found in the Trans-Am version of the 2002 Jaguar XKR Trans AM, this is one mean cat. Under the caron fibre body is tubular steel chasis housing a MUSTANG ENGINE AND DRIVELINE.

    The trans-am cars were introduced to endurance racing at the 2002 24 Hours of Daytona. They competed in the GTS class alongside the Dodge Viper, Saleen S7 & Porsche GT1. The Rocket Motorsports Jaguar trans-Am ran in 2002 to take the class win at the 24 Hours of Daytona
    http://www.supercars.net/cars/2002@$Jaguar@$XKR%20Trans-Am.html
     
  13. #313 The El Man, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    I live in the UK and would take a Mustang over a BMW anyday.

    Especially in the UK, how many have BM's??? Loads

    How many have Stangs? 10.

    Plus Stangs look far better and are quicker!!

    Mustangs Rule.

    And who gives a crap about BHP/litre. It doesnt mean a thing in performance terms.
    GET A GRIP PPL!!! GET A GRIP

    visit this site for cool Stangs and other ace stuff.

    http://lameroad.topcities.com

    Lewis<!-- Signature -->
     
  14. Seeing that BMW makes better engines and Americans can't:

    M5 engine
    302 ci.(5.0L), DOHC, 400 hp, 369 lb/ft torque

    FR500 engine(to be used in the 2004 Mustang Cobra)
    305 ci.(5.0L), DOHC, 420 hp, 389 lb/ft torque

    There, almost the same, but I thought Ford sux!!! Guess I was wrong...<!-- Signature -->
     

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