Re: When will the americans learn how to make engines??????

Discussion in '2003 Ford Mustang SVT Cobra' started by snyper, Aug 9, 2002.

  1. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from snyper</i>
    <b>Elite Wolverine, the most reliable engines over the past 4 years in formula 1 have been Ferrari, they have had 3 blow ups, in last year alone i know that the Jaguar engine blew 3 times, and is almost 50bhp down on the Ferrari engine, so until then shut up, u stupid git, and as for the Bettle it still makes 100bhp/litre and ur mustang doesnt!!!

    84FordMan, That is one a one of engine which most likely has been tuned, i know plenty of engines that could beat that pathetic number, like a prototype BMW engine built which produced 1000bhp++ at 10500 and a nice compliment of 750 ft lb++ of torque to go along with that, and it was a 6.2 litre engine, damn thats bhp!!!

    and to u cobra 351R, the M3 has a 0-60 of 4.7, and is alot better in handling than th emustang is, WHY??? u ask, try that it is lighter, stiffer chassis and so on, and the braking is better also

    until the next posts

    peace</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Oh yes let's be fair and compare a BMW 6.2L V12 to a Ford Small Block V8, some insecurity complex you got going there snyper. 10,500 RPM? What car engine revs that high? Only engine I know that revs that high are bike engines.

    A 632 Merlin big block V8 comes STOCK with 800HP @ 6000 RPM and naturally aspirated to 950HP @ 6000 RPM. Still without N2O, turbos, or superchargers.

    Yes that small block Ford was tuned, naturally, by swapping the heads, camshaft and fuel injection induction flow.

    Face it Snyper, American Muscle dominates.<!-- Signature -->
     
  2. have u ever heard the story of the Rolls Royce Griffon, originally designed to power the Supermarine Spitfire, it was transplanted into a car, that aint bad, would u not say, 3000bhp in a street legal car, mind u it was blown

    but back to the topic the BMW engine still makes more and it too is naturally aspirated, and another engine, an 10 litre V12 Lamborghini engine from the early eighties that makes 1000bhp and 1000ft lb of torque, and is street laegal, that is power, serious power, american power has been sunk again, u want to come with another one???? and i so far have only stuck to BMW and Lambo, iknow of a few ferrari engines that would take ur head clean off<!-- Signature -->
     
  3. it was a prototype engine, and have u heard of the RX-7 or RX8 they rev pretty high, try 12000 rpm, so dont think that 10500 is high at all, i mean F1 cars rev to 20000+ rpm, that is high, anyway, lets go to round 3, peace<!-- Signature -->
     
  4. #79 84FordMan, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from snyper</i>
    <b>it was a prototype engine, and have u heard of the RX-7 or RX8 they rev pretty high, try 12000 rpm, so dont think that 10500 is high at all, i mean F1 cars rev to 20000+ rpm, that is high, anyway, lets go to round 3, peace</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    http://www.supercars.net/cars/1995@$Mazda@$RX-7.html

    6500 RPM... hmmm

    I know it's not max, but still have you even seen a dyno before? Typically an engine has a curve and the 1995 Mazda RX-7 has a curve too. Sure it might be able to rev to 12,000 RPM, but want to guess what it's doing at 11,000 RPM? 72 HP and 34 ft-lbs of torque. What good is a 72 HP car? Can you say BMW Issetta?

    *Smiles at Desktop Dyno 2000*

    Looks like we won round 3, Dyno.<!-- Signature -->
     
  5. oh please.
    I'm european, and I don't think that BMW makes the best cars.
    However, I DO think that the americans just need to accept that most of their engines in their cars suck. maybe with the exception of the Corvette. I mean come on, 390 brake from a supercharged (!!!) V8???
    that's just pathetic. As some other dude already said on the forum Vtecs and ZEtecs are getting like half that from a engine that's less than half that size, has half the cilinders and isn't even SC'ed or TT'ed.
    Hell, Ford would do a better job if they bought a pile of vtecs, and welded them together tot get more bhp without an SC. now ad an SC tot hat, and they'd be leagues ahead of where they are now.
    But I'm being synical here people, it's not a serious idea. But it's to illusrate the point I'm making.
    I expect a a huge company like Ford to get about 350 hp from a standard small block V8, without the SC.
    hmm, maybe Ford America should get of their high horse, give Cosworth in Europe a call and invite them over....
    BTW, I'm NOT prejudice against americans or their cars, but I just think they should be doin better. Most American cars look seriously awesome, but they lack in power considering their engines.

    peace y'all<!-- Signature -->
     
  6. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from snyper</i>
    <b>but back to the topic the BMW engine still makes more and it too is naturally aspirated, and another engine, an 10 litre V12 Lamborghini engine from the early eighties that makes 1000bhp and 1000ft lb of torque, and is street laegal, that is power, serious power, american power has been sunk again, u want to come with another one???? and i so far have only stuck to BMW and Lambo, iknow of a few ferrari engines that would take ur head clean off</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Again, how fair of you to compare a V12 to a V8 (Sarcasm in case you didn't know). How about you compare a Dodge 800TT Viper to a Ford Pinto next?

    Again your just making stuff up, first a prototype engine, now a Lambo engine which seemingly doesn't exist. What next a 15L V18 Ferrari engine?

    If your going to defend Euro cars, least use fact and resources to back up your statements.

    Round 3 secured.<!-- Signature -->
     
  7. I just want to know why ford went to 4.6 liters instead of 5 or 5.8 liters. It is a world known fact that there is no replacement for displacement. A higher displacement will almost always have better potential than a lower displacemnt engine as long as the parts for upgrade are available and the engine block is up for it. A pushrod 351 windsor iron block is a better choice than this larger harder to work on DOHC small 281. What is wrong with the ford engineers? Drop in an aluminum pushrod 351 windsor. That thing can make more than 600 hp naturaly aspirated and the parts are available to do it cheaply! It would weigh less and take up less engine compartment space. Mustangs in my opinion are extremely overrated and not very good looking cars. And what is up with this thing weighing almost the same as my big ass all steel 4 door 1951 dodge? A kid can engineer something better than this.
     
  8. I agree with you on the 351, and I think they are eventually going to do that. I hate this sohc 4.6, it sucks. So does the chassis (which dates back to 1979) it needs a change...<!-- Signature -->
     
  9. I know, what makes the car so heavy? They have been getting more and more compact and going to smaller engines, but they continue getting heavier and heavier.

    I like the look, but I would love the performance of a 5.0L 302 or 5.8L 351 Windsor. If you don't like the current look I have a feeling you absolutely hate the design they have planned for 2004. Motor Trend unveiled it awhile back, I don't like it.<!-- Signature -->
     
  10. They went from having smooth lines back to the harsh, ugly, "box" style, and for no apparent reason. It seems like a huge company such as Ford would have used a bit more wisdom in their decisions involving their flagship sports car.

    As far as the engine, I don't understand why they didn't use a FLAT V8. It would have produced more bhp in almost every situation and could have been SCed more easily than a 90 degree. And why release this with some of the stock performance parts from the base Stang? Switching out the heads, camshaft, induction flow, and especially the cylinders they're using, would have improved performance without raising price too much. But that's Ford for you...<!-- Signature -->
     
  11. Josh427, the pride of the Mustang is on the V as the pride of the Porsche is on the FLAT [BOXER].

    That's why Porsche don't change their design too much. They don't need, but they must build better engines allways.

    In US is little diferent because the American Companies had a tradition in allways change their designs trhough the years. But the V must stay there, in the heart of the Mustang.

    The launch of a V8 Porsche in '70 was a DISASTER. The people simply don't go to stores to buy a V8 Porsche (but they will try again in 2003). That's what happened Ford in the '80s with the Mustangs 4-cyl TURBO (jap-like engines).

    The public who look for these cars is diferent from the public who looks for any other cars. They don't look only design they look engines, too.

    <!-- Signature -->
     
  12. Ok Ok guys......Now I wont claim to know as much about engines as any of you guys. I do know of a 3.8 litre mustang that produces well over 350 horses.....its been done w/ alot of aftermarket work, but still you could afford to drop 20k more engine work into it before buying a BMW, Porsche or otherwise...The main reason Americans wont produce the horsepower that euro's do is the fact that Insurance runs America, theres nothin we can do about it. If you guys wanna fuss about mustang performance talk to Saleen..he's always at the tracks waiting for someone to challenge. I'll admit I love european cars, as well as Japs, I'd do anything for XJ220 or a Skyline Gt-R but alas we cannot get them. I will remind you though.....some of your Europeans are now owned by Us Yanks......So I wouldn't complain too very much
     
  13. the engine was a marine that was being considered fo ra transplant to a Countach, but it never took place as it would comprimise the handling of the car, and as for the engine that had problems producing big power at high rpm, the BMW engine produces most of its power at 10200rpm, also if u want to talk turbos dont say BMW, u will get burned, just let it be, just let it be, and in the end america will eventually come out with some good engines but at the moment this time euro engines rule, peace<!-- Signature -->
     
  14. Hey ozyF1, read my posts. Like I said, yeah, BMW gets better power, they are also much more expensive. Like I said, Ford could easaly do what BMW does with practice. They have only to hire some new engineers, you know, like all car companies do. Then they could turn out aluminum block high 60K mosters too. But they don't. Gee, you must be smarter than marketing teams with MBA's at Ford. You could just as well compare Daewoo to Saab. <!-- Signature -->
     
  15. this whole thread is the biggest load of BS that i have ever seen ... Both sides are completely wrong !

    I u dont like the car/engine then look the other way !
     
  16. LOL, i totally agree with Bananz. It's just that, i've always been wondering if petrol is cheap in US. NO...But sure i do like american cars, especially Corvettes.
     
  17. snyper was right the whole way through. And american auto companies change their layouts and styles so often because they are outdated very fast and unreliable. Snyper was right so don't keep coming back formore.<!-- Signature -->
     
  18. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Ford_IsTrash8</i>
    <b>snyper was right the whole way through. And american auto companies change their layouts and styles so often because they are outdated very fast and unreliable. Snyper was right so don't keep coming back formore.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    How is that? He is using engines that don't even exist to prove his point. Can I use a false engine too? Maybe the Ford 375 V8 with 93656089345972462391754254 HP @ 76,000 RPM?

    If your going to compare engines, USE ONES THAT EXIST IN REAL LIFE!<!-- Signature -->
     
  19. When a german or other europeans are coming here saying that the BMW is not all you're saying you just ignore him ?

    I saw this at least two times in this forum.

    Look, you're a lot of americans (i think) talking bad about GM, Ford and Chrysler and saying that BMW is good !

    Please read when an german post a note saying you're wrong !

    BMW is not RELIABLE and is not with good technology compared with Porsche, Mercedes and Audi. You're like a lot of nerds who don't hear anything even when a BMW owner (one series 3 and one seris 7) comes here saying you're wrong !!

    Think ! The salvation of BMW was coming to America sell to a alot of people who don't even know what BMW was !

    And this topic is cleary stupid !

    Everybody knows that the American Engineers were developing his companies in the first half of nineties while the only thing the europe is doing is spend a lot of money to fight !

    Grow up ! Talk about Porsches, Mercedes, Chrysler, GM... but BMW ?

    I really can't believe !<!-- Signature -->
     
  20. It's too easy buy a magazine, look the lot of eletronics a BMW 7 has and say that's wornderful.

    Since you'll never had the money to afford one you will never know for how much time this will last without repairs. Two people who knows BMW owners had writed that opinions I am the three, I knew a man who had one too (325i) and he sells it saying the same.

    Not Reliable, Buy a Mercedes (luxury) or a Porsche (sport).

    When you're in US you will see much american cars broken but if you go to Germany you will see why Germans don't like BMW.<!-- Signature -->
     
  21. the engines that i have mentioned do exist, as i have said i dont have them here but home in the Bahamas, i know the Lambo engine is kinda unfair as it being that it never made it into a car, but the other i have mentioned obviously u know about, otherwise how would not know that it is a V12, and talk about other engines how about the 2001 F1 engine that makes around 900bhp from a 3 litre V10, that is serious power, and also it runs off of regular pump octane not the nitro methane that u use in Dragsters or indy car or cart, just regular pump gas, i am american and i even admit to the fact that we dont know how to make engines, and BMW is reliable i dont know of any BMW so far that hae been bad performers, i know that all the BMWs that have been in my family, all together 8 of them, have been pretty reliable, and as for the month tune ups, my friend has a 2000 Impala and that needs a tune up every 2 months, that is just pathetic, but back to the topic i have only mentioned one engine company so far, BMW, and to let u know, i have not even mentioned anyone elses engines, have i, yet u havent either, peace<!-- Signature -->
     
  22. you guys actually think that ford couldnt get more out of this engine if they wanted to? and plus, you cannot compare this to a bmw because this car is under 35 thousand. Now, with all the stuff on this mustang i think that is a pretty good deal.
     
  23. It's hard when we're saying completely diferent things.

    By one side you comes with the "reliable" BMW and by other with a 900hp engine..

    Tell me do you think the 900hp engine is reliabe ?

    I can see a lot of Mustangs from '68, '73 running very well...

    How many BMW do you see ? Come on ! Choose US or Deuthschland (Germany)...

    We can see in München (BMW homeland) Mercedes of '50s, porsches of '60. Why can't we find the old reliable BMWs ?

    Now come on ! The problem is reliablity or performance ? A 900 hp (choose the maker) engine is not reliable. Oh ! And like Gerbel said dont forget the price ! Show me a 390hp, 390 lbs (torque) for 36,000 (chose the maker) ! Don't forget the torque ! (is greater than the Ferrari F50 !)<!-- Signature -->
     
  24. And who made the first automobile? Daimler and Benz. Who made the first motorcycle? Daimler and Benz. Both Germans and both now have successful predecessors.





    Stock Viper's skidpad is 1.01g's so that says alot about Ford engineering.
     
  25. In CREATIONS the only company in America wich can be compared with Daimler-Benz is .... Ford. That's history.

    What you'll choose
    Buy a 390hp, 390lbs (torque) for 36,000 ?

    Or the extra-reliable (works for three hours in F1, sometimes) BMW engine 12,000 rpm 900hp for US$ 36,000,000.00 ? (3 times more hp for 1,000 times more money)

    Who of them uses the best technology ? Give the same US$ 36,000,000.00 (per car) to Ford and we'll show what we can build !!

    I repeat... Tell me do you think the 900hp engine is reliabe ?

    I can see a lot of Mustangs from '68, '73 running very well...

    How many BMW do you see ? Come on ! Choose US or Deuthschland (Germany)...

    We can see in München (BMW homeland) Mercedes of '50s, porsches of '60. Why can't we find the old reliable BMWs ('50s and '60s) ?

    <!-- Signature -->
     

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