Re: why is the 360 faster then the 550?!?

Discussion in '2000 Ferrari 360 Modena' started by Guibo, Aug 9, 2002.

  1. No complaints about the 360 Modena? Here are a few:

    "Problems we found during real world use include the 360's low front end, which scrapes itself free of paint on most driveways. There's also that constant engine wail coming from just over your right shoulder. Those with sensitive ears won't last long, plus the cops hear you coming from a mile away.

    We think the semi-automatic gearbox, which adds $10,000 to the cost of the car, should shift smoother. It often snaps your neck on upshifts, and bucks hard off the line. But the transmission does have its good points..."

    The BMW M3's SMG II tranny kills the Modena's in speed and operation. It rotates with the wheel, unlike Ferrari's system. And doesn't cost $10K.

    "Ergonomic problems are limited to the odd offset of the pedals toward the center of the car, which takes some getting used to, the poor reception and poorly marked controls of the car's audio system, and the lack of any cupholders."

    That review came from newcartestdrive.com.

    This is from Car & Driver, quite a bit more respectable among automotive journals than, say, the NY Times:
    "It sounds wonderful from inside the car, but from the outside, it's oddly raspy, almost flatulent. "Geez," said one observer, "sounds kind of like my RX-7 with the muffler off." Yes, well. It isn't as sweet a song as that of the F355 it replaces, but it is compelling as hell.

    The Modena gave us only two genuine reasons to complain. As noted in two of the three counterpoints, when shifted manually, the transmission seemed reluctant to initiate a shift, and then when it finally did shift, it did so abruptly. Editor Csere, who was out of town when this Modena came to visit, did not have that complaint about the car he drove in Italy, nor have we uttered that complaint about previous Ferrari F1 trannies, so we suspect our car was in need of a tweak or two. Most of us would choose the six-speed manual transmission and save 10 grand.

    The other complaint had to do with the general complexity of actually starting the car and making it go. Unlock the car using the key fob, get in, and you have 15 seconds to start the car or the alarm system disables the ignition. The car won't go into gear without a foot on the brake and all the doors closed. For two staffers, however, even that ritual didn't always work. At least three times the Modena declined to go into gear--any gear--despite any combination of engine-on, engine-off; door open, door closed; foot on brake, foot off brake. Once, it would only go into reverse, then happily clicked into a forward gear and was trouble-free for the 60-mile drive home. Our suspicion is that the various interlocking anti-theft systems were having trouble communicating--likely a simple reprogramming job for a dealer.

    Larry Webster: 'The 360 isn't saddled with any substantive faults, except for the shift paddles, which should rotate with the steering wheel but don't.'

    Tony Swan: 'Give Ferrari credit for trying to share Formula 1 techno-thrills with folks who are in a position to buy this achingly gorgeous car. From that perspective, the latest F1 transmission is a nifty option. It would be much niftier, though, if it actually worked. Okay, if it worked well. There's a big pause between upshifts, and when engagement finally occurs, it does so with a bang--whether the driver uses the paddle controls or lets the transmission shift for itself. Shift-pause-wham! Shift-pause-wham! Besides retarding forward progress, it's a concentration buster. Tip: Get the six-speed manual. You'll save yourself USD10,070 and also spare yourself a fair amount of irritation.'

    Don Schroeder: 'Yeah, yeah, so the 360 makes some great noises. But I recall the F355 belting out a more inspirational tune at wide-open throttle. The F355's shriek was smooth and siren-like, whereas the 360's strikes me as hoarse and somewhat stressed, and definitely less distinguishable among exotics. I also remember the F1 gearbox shifting with more conviction and speed in the F355. The 360's structure is clearly superior, and its curves are even more alluring, but overall, this car moves me only a smidgen more than its predecessor.'"

    Only a smidgeon more than its predecessor. Only in this context does Dan Neil's NY Times article make sense: he's comparing the E46 M3 to its predecessor, the E36 M3. A car that was rated Best Overall by C&D among $40K cars (Supra Turbo, C5 Corvette, Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4). Rated as the Best Handling Car over $30K (beating out the Ferrari F355, C5 Corvette, Acura NSX, Porsche Boxster and 996, Dodge Viper, etc.). R&T wrote an entire article on "Why Does the [E36] M3 Steer So Well?" No such article was ever written for a Ferrari, F355 or 360 Modena. No wonder Dan Neil was slightly less than impressed by the new E46, he was comparing it to an Icon.

    Motorweek, on the E46 M3:
    "Thanks to extensive use of aluminum to reduce unsprung weight, a stiff body structure, and near-perfect balance, the M3 coupe is one of the most enjoyably tossable track cars we've ever driven. Initial understeer keeps things safe in normal maneuvers, but push a little harder and the M3 responds with controllable oversteer, quick side-to-side transitions, and unmatched stability right up to the limits of adhesion. Driver confidence is ensured by Dynamic Stability Control, Dynamic Brake Control with ABS, and BMW M's Variable Differential Lock. All systems work together seamlessly to keep the M3 on the right path without interfering in the driver's fun."
    So, at Dan Neil-limits, the M3 understeers just like any other road car. Taken up a notch by more worthy journalists, and it shines, just like most enthusiast cars. The difference is that Motorweek was WILLING to take it up that notch, at Summit Point Raceway. Dan Neil was probing the M3's limits and steering feel in low-speed corners, LOL. Another car that behaves similarly? Read on.

    Motorweek, on the 360 Modena:
    "Entering a fast corner, the 360 s first tendency is toward safe understeer. Now, that will keep most drivers out of trouble, but it s no fun for the rest of us. So, the simple cure is a heavy application of right foot, followed immediately by a handful of counter-steer, as the rear end leaps out under power and is just as quickly reined in by the precise steering."

    Motorweek, on the 360 Spider:
    "The only bummer is the plastic rear window. Necessitated by the tight storage quarters and the way the top must fold to fit there. But Ferrari tells us that it's easily replaced should it start to haze over."
    Plastic rear window? Good god, not even the M3 Convertible still comes with a plastic rear window. It's heated glass. And it comes standard.

    "Our staff complained about a few awkward placements, but Ferrari is paying more attention to ergonomics than in the past."
    Goodness, for $150K+ I should hope so.


    Now, back to the point. While both the 360 Modena and 550 Maranello have similar hp/weight ratios, there's just no way of getting around that weight deficit the Maranello has. 500-700 lbs is hard to overcome, no matter how you look at it. Yes, the 550 is 1 whole second slower at the short Hockenheim club circuit. But that it can keep up with and even beat the 360 at Hockenheim is in incredible acheivement; for such a heavy GT, this car rocks! Also startling is that in a same-day, same-driver track test, R&T found the 550 only 1.6 seconds slower around the Thunderhill Park racetrack (2.87 miles).

    C&D got the 550 to 60 in 4.2 seconds. And MT drove the 550 Maranello through the standing mile in only 31.2 seconds @ 168 mph. Its standing mile test for the 360 Modena was 32.6 seconds @ 152. Credit could probably go to the Maranello's outright hp advantage, plus it has less downforce. But in the lower speeds, it has a tough time keeping up with or beating the much lighter Modena.


     
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  3. why is the 360 faster then the 550?!?

    I don't get it. The 360 only has a V8 with 395hp, but the 550 has a V12 with nearly 100hp more but its 0-60 tome is a half second slower than the 360. They should make the 550 faster because it costs a lot more than the 360.
     
  4. Cars don't work on a proportional speed-cost graph. Why is a Roller more expensive than a Supra?<!-- Signature -->
     
  5. I don't think that the 4.3 seconds listed here is correct. Ferrari quote 4.5 and 4.3 seconds for the 360 Modena manual and 550 Maranello respectively. That's really nothing more than marketing for you though. What use is 0-100 when I reckon a lot of the owners of this thing would be cashed up but bought it mainly cos of the name and wouldn't know (or bother to know) how to drive it properly and could probably only manage 5 seconds.

    In any case, a 550 would have far superior in-gear acceleration. Say from 100kmh, the 550's better torque would have the 360 beat. I'd say that the 550's 0-62mph time would be hindered by its larger mass.

    Like scuderium said, cars aren't sold on a cost-performance basis. The 550 is like a gentleman's car, only the super-rich can afford it (like a 365 GTB Daytona) and it will be rarer, have better resale, is overall a better performer, more refined (more soundproofing, FR layout) and is more practical. Overall, two very different beasts. The way I see it, we can't afford either so performance claim gripes dont really affect us do they?
     
  6. Of coz 360 is faster coz it was built later with F1 technology!!
    I heard new 550 modified version is coming soon....and this might be faster than 360!!
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  7. I think the most important thing to note is that the 550 is faster than the 360. The 360 is, however, quicker and has a faster acceleration. Both of these could be accounted for by the much lighter weight of the 360 vs. the 550. The 360 also has the added advantage (in 60% of the vehicles) of an electro-hydraulic shifter, which shifts a good deal faster than a human.
     
  8. The 360 is a pure sports car, but the 550 is intended to be a Grand Tourer. I'm assuming that the 550 would be a lot better to take on long trips, but the 360 is the ultimate choice in the current Ferrari lineup for track use.
     
  9. No, no, all wrong! <IMG SRC="http://www.supercars.net/servlets/cMsg/html/emoticons/smile.gif">

    Notice the weight of each car, the Modena is barely over 3000 where as the Maranello is 3900lbs+. Now, remember your physics: Force = mass x acceleration when your mass is less you can get better acceleration using the same force. Now, this is just acceleration, when it comes to top speed (which really, doesn't depend much on weight) the Maranello is faster with a top speed of 199MPH, the Modena's top speed is 190MPH. Also, the Maranello (although it lacks the 360's acceleration) lapped Nurburging faster than the Modena.<!-- Signature -->
     
  10. That 550 lap time was most probably posted by schumacher cos appearently he had a lot of input with the 550 handling
    what that guy said about the paddle shift makes sense.

    Your argument about V8 verses V12 is based on an idea that bigger is better.... remember the F40 only had a V8+turbos the Xj220 a 6+turbos F1 cars V10s

    Also remember that the new M3 is just as quick as the ferrari 360
    and has a 6.....the M3 is as good as the 360 and has better luxury than the 550 ....So whether you buy 360 or 550 you still loose cos you should have bought an M3 !!!! don't believe me ? check the 2001 M3 stats

    wanna know how fast an m3 is see below.
     
  11. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from SuperSonic</i>
    <b>That 550 lap time was most probably posted by schumacher cos appearently he had a lot of input with the 550 handling
    what that guy said about the paddle shift makes sense.

    Your argument about V8 verses V12 is based on an idea that bigger is better.... remember the F40 only had a V8+turbos the Xj220 a 6+turbos F1 cars V10s

    Also remember that the new M3 is just as quick as the ferrari 360
    and has a 6.....the M3 is as good as the 360 and has better luxury than the 550 ....So whether you buy 360 or 550 you still loose cos you should have bought an M3 !!!! don't believe me ? check the 2001 M3 stats

    wanna know how fast an m3 is see below.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->Let's just check some performance stats from Motor Trend, shall we?

    360 / M3

    HP:
    US Spec:
    395 / 333
    Euro Spec:
    400 / 340

    0-60:
    3.9 / 4.7

    1/4:
    12.2s/113.5MPH / 13.1s/107.0MPH

    Slalom:
    69MPH / 69MPH

    Breaking (60-0):
    117Ft. / 111Ft.

    As you can see, the M3 only out-breaks the 360 Modena, in every other category the 360 wins or ties. Please, only the Z8 is a true 360 Modena competitor and still the 360 Modena wins. If you want an article of complaining of the E46 M3's lack of driving feel/ride, I have it, it was in the Novemeber 25th Automobile Section of the NYTimes, he praised the performance he (Dan Neil) complained and said the E36 M3 had a better feel than the E46 M3. EVERY article I have read about the 360 Modens says it is one of the best rides available on the Earth, I have seen no complaints. And as for the 550 Maranello, that is a completely different car from the M3, it is a gentleman's GT car, not a high powered coupe. Please, don't take a car on just its performance, it has ALOT more to do with it than that. BTW, the 360 Modena isn't a beefed up 3-Series, it's an original.<!-- Signature -->
     
  12. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from SuperSonic</i>
    <b>That 550 lap time was most probably posted by schumacher cos appearently he had a lot of input with the 550 handling
    what that guy said about the paddle shift makes sense.

    Your argument about V8 verses V12 is based on an idea that bigger is better.... remember the F40 only had a V8+turbos the Xj220 a 6+turbos F1 cars V10s

    Also remember that the new M3 is just as quick as the ferrari 360
    and has a 6.....the M3 is as good as the 360 and has better luxury than the 550 ....So whether you buy 360 or 550 you still loose cos you should have bought an M3 !!!! don't believe me ? check the 2001 M3 stats

    wanna know how fast an m3 is see below.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->Let's just check some performance stats from Motor Trend, shall we?

    360 / M3

    HP:
    US Spec:
    395 / 333
    Euro Spec:
    400 / 340

    0-60:
    3.9 / 4.7

    1/4:
    12.2s/113.5MPH / 13.1s/107.0MPH

    Slalom:
    69MPH / 69MPH

    Breaking (60-0):
    117Ft. / 111Ft.

    As you can see, the M3 only out-breaks the 360 Modena, in every other category the 360 wins or ties. Please, only the Z8 is a true 360 Modena competitor and still the 360 Modena wins. If you want an article of complaining of the E46 M3's lack of driving feel/ride, I have it, it was in the Novemeber 25th Automobile Section of the NYTimes, he praised the performance he (Dan Neil) complained and said the E36 M3 had a better feel than the E46 M3. EVERY article I have read about the 360 Modens says it is one of the best rides available on the Earth, I have seen no complaints. And as for the 550 Maranello, that is a completely different car from the M3, it is a gentleman's GT car, not a high powered coupe. Please, don't take a car on just its performance, it has ALOT more to do with it than that. BTW, the 360 Modena isn't a beefed up 3-Series, it's an original.<!-- Signature -->
     
  13. Nice comparison between the 360 and M3 but you missed out one vital statistic
    m3 0-100 10.1
    360 0-100 10.2
    just so you get all the facts.
    I'de say the M3 is more like the 550...a tourer , and it manages to beat that as well though with slightly less fun from V12. M3 incase you had not worked it out is my favourite car !!

    Tell me another car this good that u can use everyday in comfort and is not 50 feet wide or scrapes along the ground. For less than 55k<!-- Signature -->
     
  14. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from DECOY</i>
    <b>I don't think that the 4.3 seconds listed here is correct. Ferrari quote 4.5 and 4.3 seconds for the 360 Modena manual and 550 Maranello respectively. That's really nothing more than marketing for you though. What use is 0-100 when I reckon a lot of the owners of this thing would be cashed up but bought it mainly cos of the name and wouldn't know (or bother to know) how to drive it properly and could probably only manage 5 seconds.

    In any case, a 550 would have far superior in-gear acceleration. Say from 100kmh, the 550's better torque would have the 360 beat. I'd say that the 550's 0-62mph time would be hindered by its larger mass.

    Like scuderium said, cars aren't sold on a cost-performance basis. The 550 is like a gentleman's car, only the super-rich can afford it (like a 365 GTB Daytona) and it will be rarer, have better resale, is overall a better performer, more refined (more soundproofing, FR layout) and is more practical. Overall, two very different beasts. The way I see it, we can't afford either so performance claim gripes dont really affect us do they?</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Speak for yourself! I'm trading up my Honda Express II Scooter this weekend for the Modena. <!-- Signature -->
     
  15. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from nipman007</i>
    <b>I don't get it. The 360 only has a V8 with 395hp, but the 550 has a V12 with nearly 100hp more but its 0-60 tome is a half second slower than the 360. They should make the 550 faster because it costs a lot more than the 360.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Has to do with the cars weight and Cx, I guess.
     
  16. dont ever compare a damn bimmer to a ferrari if u want cheap speed buy a corvette zo6!
     
  17. The Modena is faster to 60, but if you climb up the acceleration charts the 550 catches up and begins pulling away.By the quarter-mile, the 550 has caught the Modena and is going about 8 or 10 mph. faster. I have seen only one track test where the 360 beat the 550.In the others, the 550 won. I guess the 360 is faster to 60 because of it's lighter weight, but other than that the 550 is faster. Next year the 550 will get more power so it may be faster to 60 than the Modena.<!-- Signature -->
     
  18. uh yes the 0-60 is wrong if u read some mags you'll note a 3.8 sec 0-60. quarter mile is 12.2. also on the guy that said the 550 is faster i'm not too sure but in road and track they did a shootout and the 360 modean had the TOP lap time beating the 550. i was rather surprised. the reason for better accel is weight also the 360 was designed as the technological masterpiece by ferrari. i like it better tha nteh 550 acutally
     
  19. THIS DEPENDS WHAT YOU MEAN BY FASTER!
    if you mean 0-60 the 360 is faster because it's lighter, and has the engine in the rear, improving traction to the rear wheels for a more aggressive launch...

    if your talking hiway........ the 360 wins till you hit about 220km an hour. then the 550's superior torque takes over. TRUST me folks i've tested them both! on a local hiway in my area we had a tests of a 550 maranello a 360 modena F1 and a 456 Gt. The 550 and 360 both had tubi style exhaust while the 456 GT had a custom exhaust, headers, and computer chip. 0-60 the 360 dominated..... but on the hiway all three cars raced from 140 km, and the 360 was ahead until about 220km and the 550 which i was in didn't top out EVEN at 315 km, but we ran out of straight road and had to stop!


    so there you go. 360 faster from 0-60 550 faster on the hiway... Quarter Mile, both cars are very close.. the better driver will win here.

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  20. because maranello is a shit, ferrari always do great things whit small engines, oh well i just forget it, don't think that i saying that i don't like the maranello, of course i like it and i dream having one (it's a ferrari!!!!) but it's only a one more car for the better rivals (porsche, lamborghini), i also think that today the 360 is the best ferrari, isn't more than a porsche but i like it more than maranello.
     
  21. Ferrari 550 Marenello tested by Auto
    0-100 km/h (62 mph): 4.4 seconds
    0-160 km/h (100 mph): 9.3 seconds
    1/4 mile: 12.5 seconds
    0-1Km: 22.45 seconds

    360 Modena test by Quattroruote

    297.8kph
    0-100kph 4.5s
    0-160kph (0-100mph) 9.7s
    0-1000m 22.8s (235kmh)

    Circuit of Fiorano:
    360Modena 1'31"5
    550Maranello 1'34"0

    Maranello is faster in straight, but Modena has better handling, cause weight and super-Cz (app. -190Kg @ 290Kmh)

    Mafalda
     
  22. The 360 Modena has a mid-engine drivetrain, applying greater weigh distribution and allignment throughout the car. It's much more evenly distributed so that the car receives the weight to its' benefit during acceleration. The 550 Maranello comes with an older Fron-engine drivetrain resulting in a heavier front and more unequal weight transfers. It receives a lot of power from the back, but the result is a fairly slow start to get the thing up and going.
     
  23. 550 is the traditional Enzo Ferrari project (V12, frontal engine)

    360 is just the fun on-the-way today's Ferrari. Like Ferrari Dino was in '70s.

    Ferrari Dino was using the best technology in '70s...mid-engine V8 (some were V6).

    But today people looking for an old Ferrari are allways looking for the traditional V12 Front engine Enzo's project.

    The Dino's resale value is terrible.

    Think in the Daytona x Dino. (both are from '70s, Daytona is the old-fashinoned front-V12, Dino is mid-engine V8).

    Today, Daytonas are 100 times more expensives than Dinos.

    The same will happen with 360.

    And the 360 ISN'T faster on REAL races, even using the UP-TO-DATE new-fashion mid-V8 engines...

    And Vipers are faster than they both on REAL races. Using the old-fashioned frontal engines....

    Why don't you do a research, sometimes ?<!-- Signature -->
     

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