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Discussion in 'American Cars' started by SLP CamaroSS, Sep 11, 2004.
LS7? They need either the 454, 502 ram jet or something!
no nothing. You think they need the engine to be a 427? Its a superior #. And its good for marketing. Not to mention a 454 or 502 would be bigger. The ram jet isnt up to date.
its an old sheet but its what is in development or done. The only piece of rumor/evidence that has ACTUALLY been proven right up to this point.
The Engine will be built in their performance facility alongside the c6R 427 engine, but the 427 engine will not see life in the c6.
A 427 would mean more money from GM, which also means the car costs more, which in the end means less sales of the z06 which was a popular and well sold vehicle 2001 - 2004.
They wouldnt want that.
The 6.4L makes a better business case.. and in the end thats all that matters to GM.
It'll get the Mr Fusion.
You dont really know. That RPO sheet is preeeetttyyyy old. It dosnt make a business case. We dont know what has been developed by now. It makes more of a case for the 427 with the C6-R 427 that has been under developement for a long time now. Not only in marketing but for cash saving.
ur making it out to be ancient, its not that old.
GM can not scrap the development that was used for the 6.4L that would be like throwing cash in the trash. Do you honestly think, GM is going to let that money go to waste and on top of it all. Spend lots more cash to develop a new engine, and a new drive train to hold that kind of power delivery reliably?
The car would end up costing the consumer about 100K. That is definitely not a z06 or high volume vehicle.
They scrap development all the time. If its not working out...AXE.
Wasn't Bob Lutz quoted to saying it was a 7.0L w/ 500hp like not even a month ago?
I believe so
Lutz said a long time ago in a Auto week interveiw that it would be a 427. IMO by him coming out and saying that is his way of getting what he wants.
As far as why not a 454 or 502 big block, well the big block is a bit heavier and takes up more space. That would be a wedge that I dont think they want to do, and the most they got from the Gen III small block was 441 cubic inches. Honestly using a 427 to get 500+BHP would be a powerful marketing tool. All 427 Corvette's in the past in good condition is worth $70,000+, and there are strong rumors that says aluminum hydroform chassis. Also are strong rumors and partly due to the Z06 mule spyshot has similar rims to a C6R sketch that they will make the Z06 look like the C6R.
Also rumors on the blue devil are vary strong as well, it says all carbon fiber body. It says $100,000 price tag and also says 700-725BHP as well as shown in a motor trend article. But look at these things as more of a target spec. then a what it will end up if even built. As far as the engine goes they opened up a performance build center that can put out 15,000 hand built engines a year.
Show me a link.
Also you guys better be getting ready for a dissappointment.. the z06 wont have a 427.
Also these are Lutz actual words on the z06:
"I think we'll match the competition in acceleration, and we will beat them in on-road handling"
The difference is that American manufacturers charge what the car is actually worth in a ballpark, take the Ford GT for example.
Because GM already had the 6.3 or 6.4 liter engine in their RPO codes.
Because it would cost a shitload of money.
Because GM only has to make the Z06 so much better than the base, it would also leave room for a special edition.
The C6 Z06 may very well not be a 427 but you have no more proof that it wont be a 427 then I do that it will be. And you talk about scraping the engine and drivetrain, you obviously do not know that much about small block motors. They wouldnt be scrapping the motor but simply changeing its bore and stroke. The block of the LS7 is that of the LS2 motor, and the LS2 was revised based on lessons learned from the C5R. And the C5R uses a modified Gen III small block, changeing displacment isnt a complete motor scrap.
The development costs on engines wether it be a simple intake or cam change are astronomical.
We are talking about the same company that spent millions of dollars in the development of the 3.9L v6 right?
Like u said its only a bigger bore or stroke than the 3.8.
But its a lot of money that is spent in research and development of the engine and drive train components to make sure they are reliable, wont cause harm, etc etc.
This isnt someone building a hotrod in their garage its a company thats building an engine that needs to be meet a hell of a lot more restrictions, from emmissions, to quality, to reliability,etc etc. And then needs to spend money on the testing associated with all of that.
Its expensive to pull something like that off believe it or not.
The "early rumor" was related to a 6.3 L 24V VVT "Corvette Engine" in developed at GM Powertrain and revealed in Automotive Engineering International, published by the SAE. However while Tom Stephens of GM Powertrain continues to espouse the virtues and future of the new 3V VVT head design the VLE's, including Dave Hill, seem reluctant to pay for the upgrade. Instead they tried, unsuccessfully, to reach the 500 hp goal with a 6.4 L 16V version of the Gen IV small block. When that didn't make the grade they apparently rushed development of an expensive detuned version of the 7.0 L race block, further restricted to 500 hp, and possibly under 500 lb-ft. People say "427!!!", but the use of this engine would seem to signal a dramatic failure by the Corvette team, especially as earlier, potentially much cheaper 6.6 L (400 ci) versions of the small block have produced 525 hp in concept. The use of the 427 is also associated with rumors the Z06 is actually a road-going C5R, whic to me sounds more like the Blue Devil. The Blue Devil has been said to use a twin-turbo 6.5 L engine good for well over 625 hp, but there has been nothing to confirm that.
I still haven't seen any detailed information on either "Employee Enthusiasm" concept, but the photo of the 2004 Dream Cruise GTO actually says, wait for it - "Kip Wasenko, left, shows GM's 2004 "Dream Cruise Edition" Pontiac GTO with a 389 cubic inch, that generates 575hp". Despite what the caption says, Kip is the Director of Design, GM Performance Division.
So a 6.3 or 6.4 is more likly for the Zo6 and a 427 for a blue devil and C6-R
Its not a good thing it just means GM sucks and the GR-1 will kill what ever GM scramble to make IMO.
BS...the Ford GT IS NOT a $150k car....the dealer markup is OUTRAGEOUS on the car...i doubt anyone will pay 200k for that car....
Those rear brake ducts look real effective.
The block alone cost $7000...the the whole engine is about $27,000 for any one person to build. Figure with parts and labor GM would be able to make one for $15,000, thats just for the engine. Now you've gotta beef up the drivetrain and such, you're looking at around $70,000 for a base Z06. How much sense does that make?
PS - WHY THE #$%# DO MY POSTS KEEP [email protected]#$% #$%#
EDIT: Add in development costs too ($85,000-$90,000).
Is that why they can't build them fast enough? Is that why there is a waiting line over a year? The Ford GT is EASILY a $150k or even $200k car, are you trying to say that a car that is on par with the CGT, stomps the Modena and such isn't worth what they're charging? Open your eyes...
It looks as if the new Z06 will cost $70,000 a year and that they will make 3,000 a year. We really need to wait until Jan. to see which rumors are true and which are false though.
If I recall the 3.9L incorperated other technologies in it and that is the reason for the high cost.
Actually 63GS you have more proof that ultimate. Bob Lutz's words.
You're gonna cry when it debuts. Look at the history of the Corvette, this wouldn't make any sense. Like I'm saying there might be an option for a 427 corvette, but it aint gonna be on a base Z06.