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Discussion in 'American Cars' started by ajzahn, Jan 20, 2006.
just a short summary:
the Ford GT is no show car or just a marketing gag, it is true (they didn?t say super) sports car.
7:52 mins. at the Nurbrugring, achieved with no semi-slicks but the standard GoodYear F1 Eagle tires, and a top speed of 286 km/h at the upgoing Doettinger H?he show the true potential of the car.
there are some quality issues as the fast laps at the Hockenheim short track only could be completed in 3rd gear due to a broken gear shift.
keeps all it?s promises in top speed and acceleration:
0-100 km/h in 3.9 secs.
0-100 km/h in 11.9 secs.
0-200-0 km/h in 17.0 secs.
Vmax = 330 km/h
1.3g max. lateral acceleration
most off the specs make it as competive as the Ferrari 360 CS or Lamborghini Gallardo (both in the same price range)
it is fast.but honestly...when i look at that lap time i can't help thinking that this shows once again that GM are a bunch of liars.the GT could be 4-5 seconds faster with another driver but that would still be 5 seconds slower than the Z06.on top that the Nurburgring suits the Ford better(more powerful engine,better aerodynamics,...).the GT is faster than the Z06.i don't think that anyone here will say the opposite.
The Z06 spent how much more development time at the ring compared to the GT?
The Z06 also has more suspension travel than the GT and is lighter.
there is no specific setup for the Nurburgring.it is too big and there are too many different sections.there are very fast and very slow corners,huge sraights,bumpy corners...
cars with less suspensiion travel were faster than the GT.
u think aerodynamics is more important.the Ford generates more downforce than the corvette and there are many corners where aerodynamics plays a huge role.look at the speeds of Schwedenkreuz,Tiergarten,Pflanzgarten,Fuechsroehre or Flugplatz.the base corvette wasn't known for its aerodynamical efficiency: http://www.supercars.net/Pics?vpf2=y&gID=0&fID=0&tID=46738&mID=1340640&l=a
while the corvette had 50kg of lift at the front the GT has 40kg of downforce.i'm not saying that the z06 will have the same aerodynamical results but it will not generate that much downforce.
Yes, of course developement on the ring does nothing to improve the time around the ring.
and how many times has GM's driver been driving the C6 around the ring now?
They spent months there.
Damn that car is a beast, but I wish it was in English.
when I saw this thread my post was going to be my speculation of how many posts it would take till this thread was about the z06 ....my guess was 14 ..but it turns out it was 1
I think the z06 time is completely feasible compared to the ford ...development time there alone give it an obvious advantage over the Ford.
a fast car is fast everywhere.
btw many cars that hadn't been tested on the Nur are among the fastest in their class.the renault mégane,the radical or the donkervoort.
and why are manufacturers testing their cars on the Nur,when the purpose of the testing isn't to setup the car so that it is fast everywhere?to make fast only for the Sport Auto readers?
and if the manufacturer isn't testing on the Nur,does it mean that the car was setup to suit one particular track only?
Ya your right, the Ring is such a popular track to test and tune cars because the ring has every kind of turn or corner you will ever face on any track or road, which is a good move to the corvette team for doing so much testing on ring making the Z06 such a good track car.
It is faster yes, but I would still take a Z06.
So a fast car is fast everywhere. Everything says that the CCR should beat the CGT, but it barely beat a GT3 RS its first time around.
Also explain why the FGT beats the F430 by 3 seconds around the ring, while the F430 spanks the FGT around the Hockenheim by almost 2 seconds.
What other cars in the radical class are slower, other than the donkervoort and other radicals?
A good ring set up does not make it fast everywhere. Very smooth tracks like Hockenhiem or Ferrari's test track, but it is a good general set up.
"there is no specific setup for the Nurburgring.it is too big and there are too many different sections.there are very fast and very slow corners,huge sraights,bumpy corners..."
So I suppose that Nurburgring setup offered by Koenigsegg is just a gimmick? And that they actually *lied* when they said they set up their car specifically for the 'Ring?
Porsche finished a $123M Leipzig plant that includes an FIA-certified test track well over a year ago. Yet they still test their cars at the Nurburgring. Too much time on their hands?
Is there some reason why Honda engineers felt they needed to equip their NSX-R with different gear ratios for the Nurburgring?
How is it that the SRT-10 Viper, despite packing almost 100 more horses than the old Viper and equipped with ABS, is slower at the 'Ring, yet it does much better at the shorter, smoother Hockenheim club circuit?
By your assertion, you're saying that there *is* a specific setup for the 'Ring: a car set up for a short, billiard table-smooth autocross course isn't necessarily going to perform just as well at the 'Ring, without some modifications.
BMW claimed the M5 lapped in 7:52. Does the Sport Auto test time automatically mean BMW are liars? No. It just means that in *their* testing, under *those* conditions, with *their* driver (who probably had dozens if not hundreds of laps at the 'Ring in that particular car), they were able to set one single lap with that time. It doesn't mean they're "liars" at all, unless I have some kind of proof they fabricated the time. Which I don't. Do you?
Just to give you an idea of how important the variable of the driver is, Motorcyclist Magazine ran a comparo between the C5 Z06 and a Suzuki GSX-R1000 at Willow Springs Raceway's big track, with Kevin Schwantz as the driver of both. He lapped in 1:34.2 in the Z06. Later, C5-R racer Andy Pilgrim set a 1:30.6 at that same track also in a C5 Z06. Edmunds.com recently ran a track test with the C6 Z06, SRT-10 Coupe, and Ford GT at this same track, and the results were:
SRT-10 Coupe: 1:33.30
So, by your reasoning, we should automatically totally disregard Pilgrim's years of racing Corvettes and simply assume that he is lying. For how else could a C5 Z06 outlap not only the C6 Z06, but also beat the Ford GT by almost 2 seconds as well?
Best Motoring drivers, on this same course, only managed a 1:37.01 with the Ford GT...
... and Ford UK has spent more time with the GT than GM with the Z06 at the Nurburgring!
BTW, you get some great pics when you search Google with "Ford GT Nurburgring":
BTW, the GT just got beaten by the Lamborghini Gallardo SE at the FIA GT track Oschersleben: <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?displayFAQ=y"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="pitlane/emoticons/wink.gif"></A>
just to give you an overview:
Nurburgring, 22.6 km:
7:50 --- 157.787 km/h -- BMW E46 M3 CSL (sport auto 08/03)
7:50 --- 157.787 km/h -- Lamborghini Murcielago, 462 PS/1450 kg (sport auto 06/02)
7:50 --- 157.787 km/h -- Westfield Super 7 with Hayabusa engine, >>> http://nurburgring.free.fr/Vids/Bren_Westie_Whooo_Divx504_1_350.avi
7:52 --- 157.119 km/h Ford GT, 550 PS/1599 kg (sport auto 02/06), www.supercars.net/PitLane?viewThread=y&gID=0&fID=0&tID=71646
7:52 --- 157.119 km/h -- Lamborghini Gallardo E-gear, 493 PS/1496 kg (sport auto 12/03)
7:52 --- 157.119 km/h -- Mercedes Benz SLR McLaren (sport auto 06/04)
7:54 --- 156.456 km/h -- Mercedes CLK DTM AMG, 582 PS/1678kg, (sport auto 03/05), >>> http://speed.supercars.net/PitLane?viewThread=y&gID=0&fID=2&tID=27415
7:54 --- 156.456 km/h -- Porsche 996 GT3 (sport auto 06/03)
Hockenheim short track, 2.6 kms:
1:13.7 --- 127.001 km/h Porsche 997 Carrera S Kit, 381 PS/1474 kg (sport auto 01/06)
1:13.8 --- 126.829 km/h Manthey Porsche M390, 390 PS/1480 kg (sport auto 10/05)
1:13.9 --- 126.658 km/h MTM Audi S4 Clubsport, 500 PS/1765 kg (sport auto 02/06)
1:14.1 --- 126.316 km/h - Donkervoort D8 180R (sport auto 03/01)
1:14.1 --- 126.316 km/h Ford GT, 550 PS/1599 kg (sport auto 02/06, only in 3rd gear due to broken gear box), www.supercars.net/PitLane?viewThread=y&gID=0&fID=0&tID=71646
1:14.1 --- 126.316 km/h - Strosek Nissan 350Z-R, 380bhp/1560kg (sport auto 05/05)
1:14.1 --- 126.316 km/h - Porsche 993 Turbo (sport auto 03/97)
1:14.2 --- 126.146 km/h - MTM Audi RS6 Clubsport, 580hp/1719kg (sport auto 12/04)
1:14.2 --- 126.146 km/h - TVR Tuscan MKII, 350 PS/1205 kg (sport auto 6/2005)
1:14.3 --- 125.976 km/h - Porsche 997 Carrera S, 355hp/1461kg (sport auto 05/2005), http://speed.supercars.net/PitLane?viewThread=y&gID=0&fID=2&tID=36440
1:14.3 --- 125.976 km/h - Viper SRT-10 (sport auto 7/2005)
Oschersleben, 3.667 km:
1:38.32 - 134.27 km/h- Edo competition GT2 R, 542 PS/1360 kg, www.autobild.de/test/neuwagen/artikel.php?artikel_id=10372
1:39.65 - 132,41 km/h - Koro 4.6 RM S, 480 PS/1195 kg, www.autobild.de/tuning/autotuning/artikel.php?artikel_id=6331
1:41.79 - 129,69 km/h - Manthey-Racing Porsche 996 GT-MR, 550 PS/1500 kg, www.autobild.de/aktuell/meldungen/artikel.php?artikel_id=2881&artikel_seite=0
1:41.89 - 129,56 km/h Lamborghini Gallardo SE, 520 PS/1560 kg, www.autobild.de/test/neuwagen/artikel.php?artikel_id=10611&artikel_seite=1
1:42.84 128.37 km/ - Ford GT, 550 PS/1599 kg, www.autobild.de/test/neuwagen/artikel.php?artikel_id=10389&artikel_seite=4
1:43.59 - 127,44 km/h - TechArt Porsche turbo
1:43.78 - 127,20 km/h - HKT Seven GTS
1:44.10 - 126,81 km/h - Mercedes CLK DTM AMG
1:44.40 - 126,45 km/h - AC Schnitzer V8 Topster