Sport divisions: "R" vs "M" vs "AMG"

Discussion in '2002 Jaguar S-Type R' started by LittleMercedes, Feb 10, 2003.

  1. What's the best sport division?

    Jaguar "R", BMW "M" or Mercedes "AMG"?

    I like the BMW Motorsport division...
  2. Re: Sport divisions:

    I think BMW M is the best sport division, why?... well, i consider that since they don't use blowers or extremely large displacement and still get as much power from their engines is a fact that establishes they have a way more advanced engineering in them...
    It will always be easier to just make engines larger or add turbos...
  3. Re: Sport divisions:

    Jaguar A-Series RS would win them all.

    when jaguar used larger displacement for their performance line, they were the fastest cars in the world (debut of the XJ12 for example, and the XJ-TWR) but they weren't fast acceleration wise. They had the highest top speed in the category.
    Jaguar still has the top speed over BMW, even without the chargers. The purpose of the chargers is to boost acceleration speed, and not necessarily HP, though granted it helps.
    A jaguar R engine isn't a regular engine with a supercharger slapped on. It's a tuned engine, then with a supercharger.

    Note: The supercharger serves roughly about 10% of the total output. So
    we're saying, the Jaguar R engine without charger is around 350-360HP. Which isn't that bad for a 4.2. BMW uses a 4.4 producing 390HP. A jaguar 4.4 is 400 HP without charger, and 460+ with the supercharger.
    Jaguar offers the smallest displacement engine of the three. Also offers the most reliable engine. As per JD powers. However performance wise, Jaguar has faltered due to its weight. But in the changeover, expect the next generation S-Type R to actually flat out beat the M5 0-60 through v8 comparisons. V10s would be another story when both companies come out with their own versions.
    Technically, the A-Series, which is planned to hit Europe in a year or two, to be a valid model line series, with help with Arden (thus where the A comes from). Will single handidly be the top performance sport division vehicle.
    The 2004 Jaguar XKA RS, is well.... overkill in many regards.
    Though the true top of the line Benz would be a challenge against its 4.6L supercharged 465kw engine, and 0-60 in far under 4.5 seconds, and more like 4 seconds flat.
    Arden is techniclly replacing what TWR did for Jaguar in the 80s. That is producing its top model line-up.
    An XK-A would beat any current production BMW right now. Though for the benz they got some really cool v12s that could handle it. But the Jaguar RS, is well a supercar that no body heard about :)
  4. Re: Sport divisions:

    I think it is a no brainer, for one simple reason; MANUAL GEARBOXES! M is all about the the expirence and the performance, as kewl as AMG and "R" are they don't offer manual transmissions. Not to mention their engines, who makes better performing (or sounding)engines?
  5. Re: Sport divisions:

    Of Course 3.8 litres for even an E34 M5 is low Displacement and near enough 5 litres for the new one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  6. Re: Sport divisions:

    by extremely large displacements i mean... the 8 liter V10 of the SRT-10!!!!!!!!
  7. Re: Sport divisions:

    the XK180, was dubbed to have the best sounding engine.
    it was a tuned Jaguar engine.
    a special edition XKR will be made at the end of this year.
    with the brand new 4.5L AJ-V8 650HP natural powered engine with manual transmission and the new lightweight aluminum chassis.
    the car will still be called an XKR, but special limited edition name will be attached, probably trans am. since those engines are being sold to trans am racers.
  8. Re: Sport divisions:

    You know, I've noticed that you've been pretty open in your overwhelming support, as well as confidence, in Jaguar's performance aptitude and overall company nameplate lately, and that's fine of course. However, aside from your adhension to their nuts, I think you might want to reconsider the ways, and things, you boast about on their behalf. First of all, you've made a few references to this new "naturally aspirated 650 hp AJ 4.5 liter V8," yet I can't find any information of it's development or existence. If you'd like to validate that a little bit by posting some links to any information about it, that might boost my confidence in your argument a little, not that you need to impress me for some reason though.
    Also, as far as your supercharger refrences, I think any engine that needs 11 psi to get its 370-400 hp from an engine based on a 290 hp version of the same size displacement, assuming roughly 10-15 hp per lb of boost is provided, I'd say it's accounting for a lot more than 10% of that engine's power.
    I'm not calling you out for being an idiot or anything, though some of your recent posts might suggest that, but just try and be more careful about the accuracy of your cited information.
  9. Re: Sport divisions:

    car to be displayed in Melbourne car show this weekend.
  10. Re: Sport divisions:

    Right now at the moment i think that AMG has the advantage...of course this advantage will swing repeatedly over the next couple years. The AMG sport division has many more models than say the M division. Well right now the E55 AMG is the fastest four door, until that new V-10 500hp M5 comes out... i think that AMG is the best at the moment.
  11. Re: Sport divisions:

    my dad has this car, and a rover 75
    wel... i can tell that this car(not an R)is going fast, but a BMW would always win it(m3) cause the neighbour has one, i had a ride in that too..and that's amazing, but the S type has the design of a gentlemen's car and the M3 is purely sport,
    and i have something to say about the S type..mmy father had her one day and he's pickin'me mouth was open for 5 minutes( i think)..when i was inside i was dissapointed..BLACK??? black black black..not what i call a jaguar..the luxe is there, but mister ford had to #$%# shit up...nooo...however, it stays a very nice car looking outside, the girls gettin'horny if you look them in the eyes..but the rover 75 didnt let them #$%# by BMW! the inner design of the rover is beautiful, i love her so's like sittin'in a litlle limousine,and it's a lot more them togetter and you thank god it is your father...
    the rover 75 is a lease car, i chosen her..the cars were BMW 5 serie
    Volvo s80,rover 75 and a Chrysler 300M...


    pic of the new audi A3
  12. Re: Sport divisions:

    There not sport divisions, the are In House Tuning Companys.

  13. Re: Sport divisions:

    BMW's M. Because they use small displacement engines and get a quite high BHP number WITHOUT Using Turbo's/Superchargers.

    Mmmmm, Naturally Aspirated.
  14. Re: Sport divisions:

    A Supercharged engine is always going to be more efficient simply because of the way in which they operate and a superchrger is probably the best way to do this. All it does is pump more air into the enigine (matched with more fuel of course) to improve its performance.

    Anyhow, recently i've been taken with Jaguar's R performance division simply because BMW M Power is resorting to the old maxim "There aint no replacement for displacement" and thus is losing credability. I mean a V10 in a saloon car? Since when has a 400 hp V8 never been enough. Likewise with AMG, but they're making it worse by adding more and more weight into their cars.

    So 'R' Performance it is's only logical.....
  15. Re: Sport divisions:

    I don't think I could have said it any better myself.
    "High performace" european cars are seriously overweight.
    When you see a BMW/Mercedes "sports car" that weighes the same as a crown victoria, there is a problem!
    Jaguar is one of the few companies that realize the value of a pound, or lack thereof. their move toward aluminum (although not origional) is excellent and should be given more praise.
    The harsh reality is that numbers sell cars, especially in america. And if Joe Smith sees a car with 400hp or a car with 500, the choice is easy for him. He doesn't care if the car with 300hp that is not compared in the car magazine he reads weighs 1000lbs less and has a suspension tuned for real driving (corners) and not for comfort. All he sees is the 0-60 times in the back of Road and Track.
    And yes, TVR is a fantastic company. The Griffith is probably one of the greatest english roadsters of all time.
  16. Re: Sport divisions:

    I agree with you entirely. Weight is an issue that needs to be addressed more and more with modern day cars. A lot of cars are becomming particullarly heavy for what they are. Did you know that the current Jaguar XK weighs 3800 lbs? The originals wieght 1000 lbs less in the 1960's. Definitely, low wieght, a good engine, and a nice set of tires make for a wining combination. And btw, I really wish TVR would export to the U.S. so that way I can buy one, one day. Well, there is the Elise but it uses a Toyota 4 and am trying to move away from Japanese cars. There are plenty in the states as is. Anyway, I love the Type S. I wish it were a bit more retro though with chrome mirriors placed on the body and a fancier interior plus wire wheels.
  17. Re: Sport divisions:

    BMW's M
  18. Re:

    I like Jaguar's R division, because the cars are relativly light and the suspension is amazing. My mom has a X-type with C.A.T.S and it's awesome, that and the tires Jaguar chose practicly stick to the road. I guess I like Jaguar because my mom has one. The only problems with it are the shitty electrical and the defroster vents pop out (ugh!) but wen one of my mom's tires wasn't keeping pressure Jaguar replaced all four tires for free because of there maintenece program.

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