The BIG GIANT Israel vs. Lebanon/Palestine thread

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by IdoL, Jul 15, 2006.

  1. So you're suggesting Israel didn't have the US's full support (until now anyway).

    Rice's posturing suggested exactly that to everyone.
  2. I never said that. I'm suggesting this could have occurred without the US's blessing.
  3. You must've forgot that Hezbollah started this war.
  4. Israel clearly wanted to do this, but they likely would have had to wait for some serious provocation first if the US wasn't behind the plan. Also the US is crucial in terms of diplomatic cover: otherwise there would have been irresistible calls for a ceasefire, including a UN resolution by now.

    From the US's POV this ideally should have been a blow to Iran, and the perceived Shia hegemony rising in the Mid East that has the US's Arab allies worried.
  5. So you're suggesting the thing to do is to play right into the hands of the fundamentalists?

    Hezbolah, Iran, and Hamas/the Brotherhood are going to come out of this stronger than ever.

    p.s. you're clueless if you think this wasn't completely a war of choice on Israel's part.
  6. All your theories assume that Israel started this. Did Hezbollah not attack first?
  7. Also, while we're talking winners/losers, this crisis has really made the career of Kofi Annan...
  8. #883 stewacide, Jul 30, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
  9. Your intel is highly advanced.
  10. #885 IdoL, Jul 30, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Israel/US want to give time to investigate the building incident + give time for people to leave their homes so this won't happen again. Grrr, burn in hell Israel.
  11. no Israel started this war by attacking palestine in 1948.

    i wish a new hitler comes & kill all israelis.
  12. its the truth, asshole.
  13. Educate yourself.

    The Gaza Strip was occupied by Egypt before it was occupied by Israel. The West Bank was occupied by Jordan before it was occupied by Israel. There isn't a single piece of land that Israel has occupied that wasn't previously occupied by another country. It was never sitting around under the control of Palestinians.

    You're a moron.
  14. This thread is riddled with stupidity.
  15. I'm pretty sure everybody knows that Israel was attacked in 1948, not the other way around.
  16. #891 stewacide, Jul 31, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Analysis from the Washington Post:

    "Outside the White House, the mood among many foreign policy veterans in Washington is strikingly pessimistic, especially as leaders of Hezbollah and al-Qaeda, traditional rivals based in different Islamic sects, began calling for followers to take the fight to the enemy.

    Analysts foresee a muddled outcome at best, in which Hezbollah survives Israel's airstrikes, foreign peacekeepers become bogged down, and U.S. relations with allies are severely strained. At worst, they said, Hezbollah and Iran feel emboldened, Islamic radicalism spreads, and a region smuggling fighters and weapons into Iraq fractures further along sectarian lines.

    "What the conflict has exposed in a really clear way is how linked all these issues in the region are to each other," said Mara Rudman, a deputy national security adviser in the Clinton White House now at the liberal Center for American Progress. "The worst-case scenario . . . is a much more radicalized Islamic fundamentalist Middle East and much more isolated Israel and a much more isolated United States and fewer people to talk with."

    Haass, the former Bush aide who leads the Council on Foreign Relations, laughed at the president's public optimism. "An opportunity?" Haass said with an incredulous tone. "Lord, spare me. I don't laugh a lot. That's the funniest thing I've heard in a long time. If this is an opportunity, what's Iraq? A once-in-a-lifetime chance?"

    In the long run, he and others warn, the situation could cement the perception that the United States is so pro-Israel that a new generation of Arab youth will grow up perceiving Americans as enemies. The internal pressure on friendly governments in Egypt, Saudi Arabia and elsewhere could force them to distance themselves from Washington or crack down on domestic dissidents to keep power. In either case, Bush may have little leverage to press for democratic reforms.

    Jon B. Alterman, a Middle East specialist at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, outlined "not even the worst-case scenario, but a bad-case scenario: South Lebanon is in shambles, Hezbollah gets credit for rebuilding it with Iranian money, Hezbollah grows stronger in Lebanon and it's not brought to heel. The reaction of surrounding states weakens them, radicalism rises, and they respond with more repression. None of this is especially far-fetched. And in all of this, the U.S. is seen as a fundamentally hostile party."

    All of this is far too gloomy for administration officials, who see such dire forecasts as the predictable reactions of a foreign policy establishment that has produced decades of meaningless talks, paper peace agreements and unenforced U.N. resolutions that have not solved underlying issues in the Middle East.

    "Some of the overheated rhetoric about how the United States can't work with anybody, we've lost our leadership in the world, is just completely ridiculous, and this crisis proves it," said the senior administration official involved in the crisis. "We are really indispensable to solving this crisis, and you're not going to solve this problem merely by passing another resolution."

    While the diplomats work, the Pentagon is studying the possible impact on an already-stretched U.S. military. Commanders have diverted the 24th Marine Expeditionary Unit and the Iwo Jima Expeditionary Strike Group from a training mission in Jordan where they were available as reserves for Iraq. Now they are on ships in the Mediterranean Sea to help with humanitarian efforts, and another unit has been put on alert as backup for Iraq.

    The Pentagon has done contingency planning for U.S. troops participating in a multinational peacekeeping mission, but Bush aides have all but ruled out such a scenario. A more likely option, officials said, would have the United States provide command-and-control and logistics assistance.

    Peter W. Rodman, assistant secretary of defense for international security affairs, said that officials are studying the possibility of putting troops in Lebanon but that it is too early to comment on what such a force would look like. "The concept is still under development, and discussion of any potential U.S. participation would be premature."

    Some analysts acknowledge the varied challenges the United States faces but consider the possible gain worth the risk. "It's a Rubik's Cube. It's very, very difficult to resolve," said Peter Brookes, a former deputy assistant defense secretary under Bush who is now at the conservative Heritage Foundation. "But if we were able to dismantle Hezbollah, that would be very positive for the war on terror."

    The White House is acutely aware of the dangers of stirring up anti-American sentiment in the region. "There may be times when people say that they're unhappy with whatever methods we pursue," the White House's Snow said last week. "We are confident that in the long run, people are going to be much happier living in freedom and democracy than, for instance, in nations that are occupied by terrorist organizations that try to hijack a democracy in its formative stages."

    Staff writer Josh White contributed to this report."
  17. If any President should ever be impeached, and for any reason, it's Bush II for abject failure in command of the "war on terror". Can you imagine any army sticking with a commander after such a long and unbroken string of failures great and small?

    At the least the US should recognize it's failure and hand the leadership of the WoT to someone half competent.
  18. re: Israel's claims of success:

    "A RECORD 156 rockets were fired at northern Israel today, surpassing the previous record of 151 set on July 26, an army spokesman said.

    Five people were wounded according to the army, though the Israeli equivalent of the Red Cross, Magen David Adom, reported 15 wounded.

    The barrage constituted the largest number fired in a single day since the beginning of the Israeli military offensive in Lebanon on July 12, the spokesman said."

    ...apparently the cabinet has over-ruled the defence establishment, in refusing to broaden the ground assault.
  19. Our Constitution doesn't work that way.
  20. lol, you are very Educated!

    anyway, Egypt & jordan are Muslims & Arabs. And 90% of jordinians are Palestinians.

    so this land for Arabs & Muslims.
  21. stewacide made you shut up, he is more educated than you.

    You need to read history.
  22. The thing is the muslims governments don't really care about the palestinians. They boast about how much they would support their "muslim brothers" but when it comes time to act they don't do anything. Have you noticed Syria and Iran have so far refused to help lebanon? Neither the muslim governments nor the extremist factions like Hezbollah care about the average arab citizen at all.
  23. And not to mention that many Palestenians have been kicked out of Jordan .
  24. Hezbollah build schools and hospitals for the Lebanese people.
    Israel says Hezbollah is using the Lebanese people as a "human shield" but still they shoot at the human shield...not to mention the ecological catastrophe Israel caused.

    Now who doesn't care about the average arab citizen?
  25. Yes they should at the hman shield what else do you want them to do? get shot? They fight unfair and that is what happens when you do that.

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