This car is not the best...

Discussion in '2000 Hennessey Viper Venom 800TT' started by bmwm3gtr200, Mar 18, 2003.

  1. Re: This car is not the best...

    "I am perfectly happy to leave it at that also. I do not see how one car can be called the best ever. That is one of the reasons when dumbasses like Khari claim the 800 tt to be the best I start threads like this one. If you do not think he made that claim, read his signature it says or said, the 800 tt is the best car on this site, something like that. Other people like viper1426 have implied that the 800 tt is the best. Other people have implied that the 800 tt is the best car aswell, and if you think that implying a car is the best is not the same as saying it is the best you are wrong. "

    LOL, kharis sig has NEVER stated such a thing (that was blueys sig.)

    Also, i will say, like i've stated b4, that the 800tt is not the best overall car. I will say it is one of the best performing cars.


    "Now I do know what I am arguing, no I am not throwing in double standards"

    "Luxury is a category of performance, and yes even stereos can be included in the discussion. Why? Because at the time many of these cars were made stereos were common place, and expected to be on a car. You do have companies that do not put in stereos however in an attempt to save weight. There are also cars on my list that were made before stereos was even around, so how can we expect them to have one? There are also many other parts of performance then just the two mentioned, there are areas like saftey, reliability, and so forth. Also, there are things out side of performance that can make one car better then another car. Things like how it advanced the auto industry are important, and a million and one other aspects."


    LOL, YOU JUST PUT IN A DOUBLE STANDARD IN YOUR POST.

    You say that things like LUX and stereos matter to EVERY car, but then you say "we can't expect some of the cars on my list to have them, b/c they came out before the stereo"


    Keep in mind, when you started this forum, you said you would prove each car on the list is BETTER, and not better FOR THEIR TIME. You can include advancement in the auto industry if you'd like, but that doesn't mean you can ignore every other category simply because it's an old car. Remember, you said:
    "There are things like comfort, reliability, the stereo syatem, anything that has to perform a task on the car should be considered"

    but now you've moved to "There are also cars on my list that were made before stereos was even around, so how can we expect them to have one? ".
    Wasn't that the whole idea? To prove the 800tt was substandard when compared to the cars in your list. How can you do so when the cars aren't graded on the same standards?


    Here's your list:

    1. McLaren F1
    2. Ferrari Enzo
    3. Pagani Zonda C12S
    4. BMW e30 M3
    5. Porsche GT2 996
    6. Volvo 240
    7. B-Engineering Edonis
    8. Audi RS6 EuroSpec Wagon
    9. Stanley Steamer
    10. Ford Model T


    Here's the standards ALL THE CARS should meet according to what you've said throughout this forum:

    Luxury
    Stereos
    Overall performance
    Safety
    Reliability
    Advance the Auto industry
    And have one heak of a driving experience



    Now the 800tt i will say doesn't meet all those standards.

    But you're arguing those 10 cars are better than the 800tt, and they don't meet all those standards either.

    For example:

    BMW e30 M3
    Pagani Zonda C12S
    Porsche GT2 996
    B-Engineering Edonis

    These cars do offer performance, but in 0-60, 0-100, 1/4mile, skidpad, slalom, and braking, they loose to the 800tt.

    I'm not saying the 800tt offers better overall performance, i'm simply saying in those specific catagories the 800tt beats them, AND every other car on your list.


    Stanley Steamer
    Ford Model T
    Volvo 240

    Now, given the standards you set for every car, how do these cars offer, overall performance? Luxury? a stereo system? One heak of a driving experience?

    Simply, some of the cars on your 10 list, don't meet the same standards you set for the 800tt.

    So i will sum up (in hopes to end) this thread:

    The 800tt is not the best car in the world, never has been, But i will say when it comes to performance (performance here being acceleration, and handling, track performance) the 800tt is One of, if not the, best.

    <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/cboardhtml/emoticons/smile.gif"></A>
     
  2. Re: This car is not the best...

    I hate Vipers, even ones with 800bhp! Not a constructive comment I know.
     
  3. Re: This car is not the best...

    So you hate a car (the 800tt) that can give the same performance #'s as a Mclaren or Ferrari F50? Also the Koenig F50 makes 800+hp.

    You're right, that's not a constructive comment
     
  4. Re: This car is not the best...

    Very well said, too bad it didn't end this thread <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/cboardhtml/emoticons/smile.gif"></A>
     
  5. Re: This car is not the best...

    Thanks
    I put some stuff Khari said in there, b/c Khari is right, and BMW seemed to have ignored what he said in an earlier post.
     
  6. Re: This car is not the best...

    So viper1426, you say because I said, "There are things like comfort, reliability, the stereo system, anything that has to perform a task on the car should be considered," that I can not say it doesn't matter that the Stanely Steamer doesn't have a radio due to the fact it was not around yet. Well, actually I can, if you knew how to interpet the english language you will see that I said anything that performs a task on the car. Seeing how the Steamer does not have a radio, it does not go for or against it's performance.

    Khari, sorry that I got you signature mixed up with bluey's.


     
  7. Re: This car is not the best...

    "Seeing how the Steamer does not have a radio, it does not go for or against it's performance."


    I see.

    Now considering the Steamer, doesn't have a stereo, according to you, that does nothing for or against it's performance.

    Now, The Steamer, along with the Model T, and Volvo, Don't offer, overall performance, Luxury, a stereo system, or One heak of a driving experience.

    So do these "not go for or against" those cars performance?

    Unless you wheigh certain catagories differently, it "does not go for or against" thier performance.

    But you can't Compare different cars, if they're not being compared on the same scale.
     
  8. Re: This car is not the best...

    ive been watching this post ever since it began. and will it ever end? i dont think so. the competition of all these cars and their capabilities are incredible. all the people on this thread have a lot of good things to say. put i dont think it will ever end.
     
  9. Re: This car is not the best...

    When someone is proved wrong, this thread will end. Until then, keep posting. <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/cboardhtml/emoticons/smile.gif"></A>
     
  10. Re: This car is not the best...

    You do know that the performance of the stereo system is nowhere nearly as important as the overall Luxury performance of the car, right? The performance of the stereo is actually part of the overall luxury performance of the car, seeing how it is a luxury item and all. So do I need to assume that you are dumber or something and explain every little bit? Seriously, if I can not assume that you know that the stereo system is just a part that performs an action on the car. If I can not assume that you know that part happens to be included in the overall luxury performance of the car; how can I assume that you know anything about how to look at the way a car performs overall?

    Since when do the Volvo, the Steamer, and the Model T not offer overall performance? More so then that, since when does the 800 tt offer overall performance, or luxury? The fact of the matter is that the Volvo offers far superior overall performance compared to the 800 tt (The Volvo is the best example of what every person wants in a car, reliable as hell, cheap to run, cheap to buy, safe, haul anything and everything, very luxurious, and enough performance that you can get your kicks every now and then,). The fact is that the Model T offers a better overall performance then the 800 tt (The Model T was the go anywhere, be fixed by anyone, realy the first supercar in many ways). The fact is that better overall performance is better then having better luxury, seeing how luxury performance is part of overall performance. The Steamer, well it was the best car of it's day, and it is still one of the best rides. Who here realy would take 0-60 in 3.2 sec. over having to put the car in reverse to stop? Maybe it is just my brother, Jay Leno, the host of My Classic Car, and me who thinks that is one of the coolest things ever?

    viper1426:

    "Now, The Steamer, along with the Model T, and Volvo, Don't offer, overall performance, Luxury, a stereo system, or One heak of a driving experience.

    So do these "not go for or against" those cars performance?

    Unless you wheigh certain catagories differently, it "does not go for or against" thier performance."

    Yeaaaaaaaah, no. The stereo is a part on a car that performs a task. The performance of the stereo is part of the many factors that are looked at when determining the luxury performance of the car. If a car does not offer performance in a major area, like luxury or what not, then it does not have any of the parts that make up that area. So that would mean the Volvo has no seats? Heck! It would not exist, seeing how it has no overall performance. If the car does not have the part, it does not affect it's rating in that area. It is just very hard for a car made after the radio was invented to be luxurious without a radio. Once again we can not expect a car to have a radio, or anything else, if it was not invented yet. How many more ways do I need to explain this to you? One more, if you expect a car to have something on it that was not even around when it was made, then I guess I should expect modern cars to be flying!


    Am I clear for landing?
     
  11. Re: This car is not the best...

    i dont think it will be anytime soon
     
  12. Re: This car is not the best...

    WTF are you smoking?
    not better the a 996GT2?
    you gotta be crazy.
    this thing roars to 60 in 2.7 while it takes the GT2 another WHOLE second.
    this can outturn, has higher speed, and costs MUCH LESS then the GT2, yet it's better?
    now you are going to say, well it's luxury.
    luxury can kiss my ass, because when you are going from point a to point b, luxury don't matter. pure speed does.
    now sure, that's your opinion and you can keep it, but don't go bsing about how car that is nowhere close to the same statiscal bracket being "better". and don't bring up no model T's either, because you are digging your own grave here.
    Yes, i can imagine the top 3 in your list being better, but the other 7 are VERY questionable. you may need to redo your list...
     
  13. Re: This car is not the best...

    Ok, there are Many different catagories these cars are being compared in.

    But the 800tt, Unlike some cars in your 10 list, was made basically, Only to go fast, in a straight line, and on a track.

    And if you look at the numbers:

    (street tires)

    0-60: 3.2
    0-100: (est.) 6.6
    1/4mile: 10.71 @ 137.6
    skidpad: 1.06
    60-0 braking: 110ft
    slalom: 75.1

    Besides, maybe the est. 0-100 time, in these specific catagories, the 800tt beats every car on your list.

    And the 800tt was made for just that, performance in a straight line, and on a track.

    So, BMWM3GTR200, if you want to prove the 800tt is worse than the other cars on your list, in other catagories that the 800tt wasn't made for, go ahead, Because in the end, it doesn't matter.

    The 800TT was made to be a fast performing car, on the strip and track, and it does that Very well.

    If it isn't as good as other cars, like a mercedes, because it doesn't offer the same lux. or not as good as a truck, because it can't tow as much, so what?
    The car wasn't made to be luxurious, or comfortable, it was made for performance (performance here being acceleration and handling) And the 800TT is one of, if not The, best accelerating and handling cars in the world. <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/cboardhtml/emoticons/smile.gif"></A>
     
  14. Re: This car is not the best...

    now, you also say the F1, is better, yes it is...to an extent.
    if you look at a head to head comparision, They are very much the same except for the 5mph top speed diff.

    800TT McLaren F1
    0-60 2.7 3.4 Big difference
    0-100 6.5 6.5 Catchin Up
    1/4 Mile 10.2 11.6 Man, F1's behind
    Top Speed 235 240 1st win for F1.
    cost 127,225USD 1,000,000USD Man saved $872,775


    ok, now, with the extra 872k i saved, i could buy TWO Carrera GTs, almost FOUR more 800TTs, or even an ENZO.
    now, why would a car that's British, and 800thousand more, be better? it has a 5mph higher top speed, so? with the amount of cars i could buy with the money i saved would be enough to kill it.
    so you're kinda stupid for having that too.
    you gotta remember, this is a moded car, which means is SUPPOSED to be faster then the other cars, not SLOWER.
     
  15. Re: This car is not the best...

    and like i said, with all the money you saved instead of buying a mclaren, you can use to put, leather seats, xenon lights, good sound system, and after that still have 700k left.
     
  16. Re: This car is not the best...

    Well lets see here, we have already talked abut how the numbers do not tell the whole story. A higher top speed does not mean a car is better. A faster 0-60 time does not mean a car is better, and price has nothing to do with it. The price of a car comes down to the number of units sold, the amount it costs to design and build it, and the amount of profit they believe is easily made off of each car. So what this means is that if Hennesey were to build the 800 tt totally it would cost in the half million dollar range at least, or look at it like this, if there were 1000 McLaren F1's made and sold, and the profit margin was the same as what they made off of the 100 McLaren F1's sold, then each car would have costed roughly 100,000 dollars. Not only that, but the car was designed and built in house, so it costed them a lot more to do that then take a production car and tune it.

    The Porsche 911 GT2 (996) is the best version of the 911 (996). Seeing how many of the top automotive experts believe the 911 is the best sports car, then the best version of the best sports car must be one of the best.

    About my list, I came up with it in about 10 minutes. I do have some cars on there that are way off the wall, but all of them have very good credentials backing them up. I can argue that all of them except for one is better easily. The only one I can not argue to be better probably will be argued to be better because many of the people supporting the 800 tt do not see cars as anything more then numbers on paper. There is much more to what a car is then that, and there are just some cars that are better, maybe not on paper, or even based on how well they perform, but rather the feeling you get from the car. When you drive a true drivers car you feel as if you are one with the car. Those are the cars that overcome all obsticles in there way to become one of the best. The e30 M3 is cosidered the best drivers car of all time by many, the only car that comes close to getting as much praise for being a great drivers car is the McLaren. Sure Porsche's and Ferraris, and all that stuff gets it's praise too, but the e30 M3 by far outreaches the praise of those cars.

    So before you say my list needs to be rethought, it does, realy look over my list. Think about what each of those cars main selling point is, think about the total package of the car. Think about the emotion that the car invokes, think about the complete obsurdity of the car. The 800 tt is a great car. Unfortunately it does not offer anything that is realy top of the line. The 800 tt has very little luxury, it is not the fastest to 60, and there are even production cars that beat it to 60. The 800 tt is not the fastest, it is no thte best braking, not the best handler, and does not even ofer the best overall sports performance.
     
  17. Re: This car is not the best...

    ok, you tell me a production car that beats it to 60.
    and
    the numbers on paper is what makes a car sell.
    not the interior or exterior.
    and i don't know what you are talking about as it not being top of the line. it has killer acceleration. it has great top speed.
    i don't see what's wrong with it.
    and in the real world, money DOES count.
     
  18. #118 1426 cid, Apr 26, 2003
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Re: This car is not the best...

    "many of the top automotive experts believe the 911 is the best sports car, then the best version of the best sports car must be one of the best."


    Well, if the 911 is considered the best sports car by many, then the Viper must be even Better, Considering in the 1997 motortrend comparison, the Viper GTS a Ferrari 355, Porsche 911 Turbo, and others were compared, in an all out comparison, testing thier performance, performance being, acceleration, handling, and braking.

    Considering the GTS, beat Every car, in almost Every test, Including a road Track, i believe that would make it better (performance wise) than the "best sports car, by many":

    http://members.aol.com/Pdl2thmdl/table1.html

    And like you said "then the best version of the best sports car must be one of the best."

    Well, the 800tt is the best version of the viper GTS, the car that beat the 911. so the 800tt "must be one of the best"


    "and there are just some cars that are better, maybe not on paper, or even based on how well they perform, but rather the feeling you get from the car"


    Ok, so some of the cars on your list are better b/c they have a better feeling?


    "it is not the fastest to 60, and there are even production cars that beat it to 60. The 800 tt is not the fastest, it is no the best braking, not the best handler, and does not even ofer the best overall sports performance."


    There are Very few cars that beat it to 60.
    The car does 60 in 3.2 on street tires, 2.4 on street legal slicks

    About the 800tt being the fastest, stock vipers have top speeds of 200mph, this has almost double the power, and it's top speed, hasn't been tested.

    It does 60-0 braking in 110ft.

    Handling, well like you said, if the 911 is a great sports car, and a viper can beat it, and a better more powerful 911 (996) is better, then the 800tt would be better than a stock GTS viper in handling.

    Also, the car does:

    skidpad, 1.06g
    slalom, 75.1mph

    These are the highest numbers of almost any car in these comparisons.


    Now, like i said, the viper 800tt was made to be a Fast car, on a track and strip. And the 800tt does this very well.

    It was made, and tuned to be a fast car, and in catagories of acceleration and handling, it is one of the best.

    If it's not as good as a mercedes becaue it doesn't have the same amount of lux. or not as good as a truck because it can't tow as much, so what? it wasn't made to perform in those catagories.

    The 800TT was made to perform in acceleration and handling catagories, and it is one of the best cars at that, that's about it.
    If it doesn't do well in other catagories, who cares.
     
  19. Re: This car is not the best...

    Moron! I am talking about teh Porsche GT2, not the Porsche Turbo! There is a world of difference between the two.

    viper1426:

    "Well, if the 911 is considered the best sports car by many, then the Viper must be even Better, Considering in the 1997 motortrend comparison, the Viper GTS a Ferrari 355, Porsche 911 Turbo, and others were compared, in an all out comparison, testing thier performance, performance being, acceleration, handling, and braking."


    I will once again say that numbers do not tell the whole story, and the Porsche GT2 is faster than the Viper by far on the track. The Porsche GT3 holds the production car record for the quickest lap around the Nurburgring with a time of 7 min. and 56 sec. If I remember correctly the Viper GTS-R did the Nurburgring in 8 min. 20 sec. So seeing how the GT2 is faster then the GT3, it would be even faster then the Viper.

    There is also a big difference between being the best performance(Acceleration yada yada yada) car and the best overall performance car. There is also a difference between the best overall performance car and the best car. So I realy do not see why you are bringing up just one area that the Viper is better in.
     
  20. Re: This car is not the best...

    i don't have the time 2 read all that!
    its tickin' over 1AM 'ere!
    can't u just round it down!
     
  21. Re: This car is not the best...

    Ok Bluey i'll round it down.

    Now BMWM3GTR200, you said the porsche 911, so i remembered that one comparison with a Turbo 911 (which would be better than a stock 911) and posted it. NEXT TIME BE MORE SPECIFIC.

    Also, That GTSR was the Euro version, with only 400hp. Not like the other GTSR's, or new comp. coupe, at 500hp.


    Now i bring up Only the catagories of acceleration, and handling, because that's what the 800tt was made and tuned for. To be a good handling and accelerating car. It does this very well.

    IF it's not good in other catagories, that other cars are good in, so what. The 800tt wasn't really tuned to perform well in those other catagories.

    The people who like the 800tt, like it because it can do what it was made to do very well. (accel, and handling)
    If it doesn't do better in other catagories besides those two, well..who cares.

    Good, 100+ post argument BMW. <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/cboardhtml/emoticons/smile.gif"></A>
     
  22. Re: This car is not the best...

    The GT3 holds the record for production cars around the 'Ring? Since when? The R500 ran 7:55, the GT2 ran 7:47, the Murcielago ran a 7:52, and the Pagani Zonda ran a 7:44. Fastest lap indeed...
     
  23. Re: This car is not the best...

    I thought the Dauer 962 Le Mans held the lap record for production cars around the ring.
     
  24. Re: This car is not the best...

    To my knowledge it hasn't been run, but as AJzahn said, they are targeting a lap below 7:20...
     
  25. Re: This car is not the best...

    Yeah, AJZahn said that didn't he?

    I guess with one hell of a driver and perfect weather conditions, the Dauer 962 Le Mans could do under 7 minutes....
     

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