this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Discussion in '2000 Hennessey Viper Venom 800TT' started by FireBird175, Jan 24, 2003.

  1. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    yea but the viper looks way beta!!!
     
  2. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    oh well now thats it...
    the Viper must be betta right...

    stupid newbie!
     
  3. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Way BETTER than the McLaren. I know it's all opinion but the McLaren is a fine car.
     
  4. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    judging a car by it's looks is like judgeing a book by its cover...

    if u want my opinion (to bad if u don't)
    best lookin' cars:

    1 Ford GT-90
    2 Zonda C12-s
    3 Vipers (especially the SVS Stryker TT's paint job)
    4 McLaren F1
    5 CLK GTR
    6 Lanborgini Diablo & Murcielago
    7 Mazda RX-7
    8 Ferrari Enzo
    9 Corvettes (including the Sting rays)
    10 Lotus Elipse
    11 Porsche 911 & Carrera
    12 TVR Speed 12
    13 Toyota Supra
    14 Toyota RSC Concept
    15 BMW Z3
     
  5. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Most of thoes would be in my list just in a different order.
     
  6. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I didn't come back to the forum to debate the definition of Production car.

    I'm saying that Technically, hennessey does produce VENOM VIPERS.
    Yes he tunes stock vipers, but he makes or Produces the venom series vipers.
     
  7. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    dont forget everything in the mac has to be tuned to a comperable amount by means of stock+_% when compaired to the 800TT. so a maclaren w/ twin turbos brake upgrades and suspention aswell as exteror asthetics that my afect aerodynamics should be fair in this comparison.
     
  8. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I don't exactly like all of those cars...
    but i do like what they look like...

    The Ford GT-90 is on top of the good looks chart...
    but it would be a LOOONG way down the chart of over good cars...
     
  9. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    so since the 800tt can POSSIBLY beat a McLaren...
    and the 1000tt CAN beat a McLaren...
    does that make it the Fastest production car...

    if so why is the McLaren still classified as the Fastest production car...?
     
  10. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    a McLaren with Twin Turbo (McLaren TT) sounds fun...

    but the McLaren already has Brack and Suspention Upgrades...

    as soon as some crazy bloke puts a Twin Turbo on a McLaren...
    pls let me know!
     
  11. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Like my post a couple months ago:

    "Well, technically, b/c the car is Produced by hennessey, it is a production car.

    And if you go by that, and what MOTOR TREND said in June 2001 "800tt worlds fastest production car"

    But b/c hennessey is a tuner, ppl don't consider the cars production (but technically they are)

    "so why is the McLaren the fastest production car then...?"

    It isn't."


    I'm saying that Technically, hennessey does produce VENOM VIPERS.
    Yes he tunes stock vipers, but he makes or Produces the venom series vipers.

    <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/cboardhtml/emoticons/smile.gif"></A>
     
  12. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    so your saying like saleen because they tune mustangs but on a prodiction 'like' line?
    and to the guy that replied to my coment about the TTs i mean upgrades upon those in suspention and braking ie: replaced with ones off the enzo and tuned to mat this car
     
  13. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    "so your saying like saleen because they tune mustangs but on a prodiction 'like' line?"

    Kind of. I'm saying that like saleen, they produce cars, saleen produces tuned mustangs, hennessey produces venom vipers.
    So technically they're production cars. (probably why motortrend said "venom 800tt, worlds fastest production car" (because they're produced and you can buy them).

    Also, the mclaren doesn't need to be tuned to compete with the 800tt. Power to weight ratio for the mclaren is 4.5, for the 800 is 4.2 and they have the same 0-60 time.

    The 800tt being turbo makes up for the 700lbs. advantage the mclaren has.
     
  14. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    but you have to admit this viper didnt start out this way so we sould compare a real car w/ an imaganary one:
    2000 Dodge Hennessey Viper Venom 800TT
    VS.
    2000 Maclaren Hennessey F1 800TT
     
  15. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    for people who don't know it u have to get a permite from the us goverment to drive the f1 on the street most of the time. and the 800tt viper is street legal and so is the newer 1000tt.
     
  16. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    same with here in canada, its only street legal in BC, for some reason.. same with weed, thats perfectly legal there, and its about to be everywhere else in canada,.
     
  17. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    besides why would u spend up to 2 million on a car that you would only drive a few times a year. u get the viper u can drive it more and save hundreds of thousands of dollars
     
  18. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    are you implying that you can only drive a mac ocationally?
     
  19. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    well the Ferrari Enzo is Aus$2,000,000 and u can't even regester it on Australian Roads...
    but the McLaren u can drive as often as u won't...
    and the good thing is that u don't need to change the diving sides...
    like this beast...
     
  20. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    hi
     
  21. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    You are right.... allmost.. If you can find a 200+ breaking speed for both cars you would see that at high speeds the F1 would do much better. Both cars are great but I think the F1 with the right driver could win.
     
  22. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Well bud i hate to tell ya but the Bugatti 16/4 Veyron is now the world's fastest production car.
     
  23. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    its top speed is 10 mph faster than the koeneggs cc and it has a 400 hp handycapp, and right now its not production its due in may 2004.
     
  24. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Acceleration, braking, and handling. Those are the three most important factors when it comes to road racing. I exluded top speed because you rarely come accross a road track where you top speed isn't limited to under 200 mph(Something these two cars are capable of).

    When I speak of acceleration, I do not consider 0-60 times to be signifigent because you only do that one time in a race at most hopefully. 0-100 is a little more signifigent as it gives a better in gear picture, but still you will only do it once in a race. 1/4 mile is no different. What I, along with everyone that knows anything about raod racing, consider to be signifigent is in-gear acceleration times. The McLaren F1 has the best in-gear times of any production car on earth, excluding the McLaren F1 LM. Those amazing times are thanks to it's BMW M-Power V12, considered to be the best road going engine ever made by many of the top experts. The engine has the ever famous BMW power band, fatter than anyone elses and smoother also. If there is any doubt to the in-gear acceleration of the McLaren F1 consider this, it screams from 0-100 in 11 seconds... in third gear! What does the 800 tt offer in the way of acceleration? A similar 0-60 time, 0-100 time, and 1/4 mile trap speed. I know, the 800 tt does the 1/4 mile in less time, this only goes to show that it has poor in-gear times though. Why you ask? Because the only way a car can do the 1/4 mile at the same speed, but in less time is if it reaches a higher speed first, but then tops out. So the 800 tt beats the F1 off the line, but at some point the F1 passes it back up.

    What about braking? The 800 tt surely out brakes the F1. It stops from 60 in less distance, so it has to be. WRONG assumption. the McLaren F1's braking is the weakest point on the car. It does have amazing braking power though. The critizism of the F1's brakes is largely because it does not have power assisted brakes and no ABS. This tends to give brakes a wood like feeling, which is not desirable in a road car. The lack of ABS also gives the F1 a disadvantage in braking to a complete stop. You do not brake to a complete stop during a race though, so that doesn't matter. So how well does the McLaren F1 brake at high speeds though? Excellent, in fact better than any other car when it was first released, and still one of the best. The brakes on the McLaren F1 were tuned for braking at higher rates of speed because Murray felt this was more important to driver safety and overall performance. If the 800 tt follows the trend of optimizing performance for paper racing, then it is likely not the best high speed braking car around, not to mention the high probability of the brakes not even being optimised for high speed braking, something that takes engineering skill.

    As for handling, just read my post in the Speed 12 thread. The McLaren F1 wins if you want to know now. Don't even try to talk about skid pad numbers being the determining factor either. Correlation does not mean fact. The 800 tt also has a center of roll height bellow the ground level, which allows cars to get high skid pad numbers, but this type of suspension set up hinders overall handling performance severly.

    Which one will win on the track, more likely than not the McLaren F1 will. It accelerates faster, handles better, and likely brakes better. Ultimately it will come down to a matter of seconds seperating the two cars. The driver's will be the biggest influence on the winner, which tends to give the advantage to the McLaren being a more connected car than the 800 tt.

    The 800 tt is not a production car. It is a tuned Viper. Hennesey is not recognized as a manufacturer by the Canadian, US, British, German, Italian, ect., governments as a manufacturer. They do not crash test, perform emissions tests, and so forth. All Hennesey has done to the Viper is upgrade components. If you want to insist on the 800 tt being considered a production car, then I will have to insist that my buddies a car manufacturer. Anyone interested in a Super(An I4 Supra with a turbo added plus proper tuning, and the suspension upgraded)? It makes 683 bhp, and does runs the 1/4 mile at 128 mph. Plus it cost him just 30,000 dollars to build. Doesn't that make the Super one of those cars for under 100k that is better than the 800 tt?
     
  25. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    “Acceleration, braking, and handling. Those are the three most important factors when it comes to road racing”

    Ok, let’s look at all three. First Acceleration.

    “What I, along with everyone that knows anything about raod racing, consider to be signifigent is in-gear acceleration times”
    “The McLaren F1 has the best in-gear times of any production car”
    “I know, the 800 tt does the 1/4 mile in less time, this only goes to show that it has poor in-gear times though”

    Ok, let’s look at ‘in gear times’ for both.

    Here’s what the cars do:

    0-60:
    Both: 3.2

    0-100:
    800tt: 6.6
    mclaren: 6.3

    And

    0-138:
    800tt: 10.7
    mclaren: 11.1

    Now, you get the cars in gear acceleration times:

    60-138:
    800tt: 7.5
    mclaren: 7.9

    100-138:
    800tt: 4.1
    mclaren: 4.8

    So, in gear the 800tt accelerates faster.


    Braking:

    “So how well does the McLaren F1 brake at high speeds though? Excellent,”


    How excellent? Second in this comparison.


    60-0 braking:
    800tt: 110ft
    mclaren: 127ft


    Ok, you say this doesn’t mean much. what about 10mph faster?


    70-0 braking:
    800tt: 143ft
    mclaren: 162ft


    Still not good enough? what about braking from 100mph? that fast enough?


    The cars do:
    0-100:
    800tt: 6.6
    mclaren: 6.3


    Did I mention the 800tt is faster from 0-100-0?


    0-100-0:
    800tt: 9.9
    mclaren: 11.5


    That means:

    100-0 braking:
    800tt: 3.3 seconds
    mclaren: 5.2 seconds



    Handling:

    “Don't even try to talk about skid pad numbers being the determining factor either”


    But, the skidpad tells you not only the cars outer limits of handling, but also its controllability as those limits are reached.
    But we could leave it out.


    “The 800 tt also has a center of roll height bellow the ground level, which allows cars to get high skid pad numbers, but this type of suspension set up hinders overall handling performance severly”


    The 800tt having that suspension (eibach springs, penske shocks, wilwood brakes) wouldn’t hinder overall handling. The slalom test quantifies one of the many components of handling: stability during radical transitions.
    Now on a track, there are many radical transitions (turns), and while the 800tt has a “roll height bellow ground level” still, in the slalom it does 75.1


    “Which one will win on the track, more likely than not the McLaren F1 will. It accelerates faster, handles better, and likely brakes better.”



    Look at the in gear specs. The 800tt accelerates faster off the line, and in gear.
    It has a higher outer limit of handling, and controllability at that limit, and is more stable during radical transitions.
    And it’s More that likely, that if you look at the 60-0, or 70-0, or 100-0 braking specs. you’ll see the 800tt brakes better.
     

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