# this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Discussion in '2000 Hennessey Viper Venom 800TT' started by FireBird175, Jan 24, 2003.

1. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In gear acceleration is how quick it does a certain speed to another speed in one gear. For example 40-60 in fourth gear. 0-100 times kind of tell us about in gear times and 1/4 trap speeds do a little also, but they only show the car running at optimum acceleration. This rarely happens on a race track, and often driver's run in a higher gear than optimual to save on gas.

60-0 or any speed realy(there is a point when it will matter, like 150, 200 mph) to 0 means jack shit on a race track when one of the cars doesn't have ABS. ABS allows a car to stop substantially quicker from bellow 60 mph because it allows a higher percentage of braking force total. This same level is impossible to achieve in a car without ABS because it would require the driver to pump his foot at a rate unimaganable, and the limits of a constant force stopping the car are lower than one with a pulsating stopping force. The McLaren has three things going for it when it comes to high speed braking, something does matter on a race track. It weighs less, has a lower center of gravity, and has more braking power available(Both brake system power and tire traction power). So in principle the McLaren F1 should out brake the 800 tt when it comes to higher speed braking. These principles are based on physics thankfully, and are usually a very accurate picture of real life. If you want to disagree with science, and go with a biased test that realy means nothing even if it wasn't biased, then go ahead. I tend to believe science though.

Now you say the 800 tt did 0-100-0 in 9.9 seconds. First I would like to see a reference for that number, but so far you information has been pretty reliable so I will trust that number. A couple of things, what was the 0-100 time in that run? In the McLaren F1 LM's 0-100-0 run, the time you reger to, it was on a wet track, with old tyres, and ran a 6.7 sec. 0-100 time. Also, the brakes were locked up for the last 40 mph of it's run, which ABS would have taken care of. So for 40 mph the 800 tt was getting makimum braking power, and the McLaren was getting about 70%. I would also like to ask if the 800 tt was on street tires, or cheater slicks for that test? I question this because I have seen a lot of numebr's posted for the 800 tt on cheater slicks, which makes the numebrs a bunch of horse wash for comparing these two cars.

2. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

quote from bmwm3gtr200:
"In the McLaren F1 LM's 0-100-0 run, the time you reger to, it was on a wet track, with old tyres, and ran a 6.7 sec. 0-100 time. Also, the brakes were locked up for the last 40 mph of it's run, which ABS would have taken care of."

Where did you read this from? I have the original publication of that article, from CAR magazine. They didn't mention ANYTHING about locking from 40 mph. It was most certainly not done on a wet track (it was done in the blazing heat). The tires were not old (they tried two sets of tires, from two different companies).

3. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ÂIn gear acceleration is how quick it does a certain speed to another speed in one gear. For example 40-60 in fourth gear. 0-100 times kind of tell us about in gear times and 1/4 trap speeds do a little also, but they only show the car running at optimum acceleration. This rarely happens on a race track, and often driver's run in a higher gear than optimual to save on gas.Â

I see. But what IÂm pointing out is that not only off the line is the 800tt faster, but also doing Âa certain speed to another speedÂ
(which is what happens on a track, coming out of a turn, for example coming out of a turn at 60mph or 100mph and accelerating) the 800tt is faster:

60-138:
800tt: 7.5
mclaren: 7.9

100-138:
800tt: 4.1
mclaren: 4.8

Â60-0 or any speed realy(there is a point when it will matter, like 150, 200 mph) to 0 means jack on a race track when one of the cars doesn't have ABSÂ

FYI, THE 800TT DOESNÂT, DOES NOT HAVE ABS, and neither does the Mclaren. So those numbers mean something Now.

60-0 braking:
800tt: 110ft
mclaren: 127ft

70-0 braking:
800tt: 143ft
mclaren: 162ft

100-0 braking:
800tt: 3.3 seconds
mclaren: 5.2 seconds

The 800tt can out-brake the mclaren going into a turn at 60, 70, and 100mph.

ÂThe McLaren has three things going for it when it comes to high speed braking, something does matter on a race track. It weighs less, has a lower center of gravity, and has more braking power available(Both brake system power and tire traction power). So in principle the McLaren F1 should out brake the 800 tt when it comes to higher speed braking.Â

You could take those same three things, and say the mclaren in principle can out-brake the 800tt at any speed, but it doesnÂt.

The 800tt out-brakes the mclaren from 60 by 17ft, 70 by 19ft,& 100 by 1.9 seconds. So why should it all of a sudden start to be out-braked by the mclaren?

Keep in mind it has wilwood 13-in drilled and slotted discs with 6-piston calipers. (I think that gives it more braking power)
(BTW, the 0-100-0 time was done on street tires.)

ÂWhen a car is braking hard into a turn, shifting weight, then accelerating hard out of a turn, the less weight the more g's the tires can handle. A skid pad test does not test any of these characteristics.Â
ÂThere is no correlation to be found relating good slalom numbers to good performanceÂ

Actually, there is a relation between good skid pad, slalom numbers, and good performance:

1997 MotorTrend Comparison:

Dodge Viper GTS 1.01 g
Ferrari F355 1.01 g
Porsche 911 Turbo 1.00 g

600-feet Slalom(mph) 1-3:
Dodge Viper GTS 73.6
Ferrari F355 72.1
Porsche 911 Turbo 69.6

Track Times 1-3:
Dodge Viper GTS 39.4
Ferarri F355 39.5
Porsche 911 Turbo 40.2

The cars with the most GÂs, and slalom speed took top positions on the track

In the june 2003 issue of MT.
In thier 10 car shoot-out, they do a test on the track, a figure eight course layout.

The mosler mt900 photon took 1st

It acceled the fastest and pulled the most g's. acceled to 83.6mph, and did 1.14g

Second the viper srt10

acceled to 79.3mph
pulled 1.05g

Third, lambo murcielago
77.8mph
.98g

4th
vette z06
75.3mph
.99g

And so on.

Each place you go down for a car, like from 5th to 6th the acceleration gets slower, or the cars didn't pull as many g's.

The figure 8 track also tests acceleration, braking and hard, long turns in both directions.

But in that comparison, the cars that pulled the most skidpad GÂs, took top places on the track.

So, given all these (facts), the 800tt out-accels the mclaren off the line and from one certain speed to another.

Neither of the cars have ABS. And the 800tt out-brakes the mclaren from speeds at 60-100mph and at higher speeds.

Last, comparisons show that Some cars with high slalom, and skidpad, get good performance on the track.

"Based on physics, the McLarn F1 should out handle the 800 tt,"

Based on all the Facts posted, i say, a close race.

4. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have that article also. I also have a copy of the official record attempt report sheet in my car racing/record bible "Tale of Two Seats"(Most complete book on car records I have found thus far, and learned about it from watching a behind the scenes documentry on Le Mans. One of the announcers called it their little secret). On it, it reported a temperature of 86F, and the condition for the track was repoted as damp due to showers from the night before(I probably should have said damp in the first place). As for the tires being locked up, I saw a documentry on the Discovery Channel about the McLaren. In the documentry they interviewed the driver, Andy Walace, who set the record. He said that he felt they could have gotten a better time if the tires were not locked up for the last 40 mph, and said that it was a persistant problem throughout the day. As for the tires being old, they had been through a run already that more than likely had lock-up of the tires, which means a flat spot. Any tires with a likely flat spot are considered old by race teams. Pirellis and Michelin Pilot Series(Set the record on these), if anyone is wondering.

5. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You know for a fact that the 800 tt will out brake from higher speeds? I haven't seen any clear hard evidence that realy says one way or another. Based on physics the McLaren F1 has the edge, and by the way, when the McLaren F1 came out it had teh most powerful roadcar brakes Brembo had ever made. As we all know, Brembo is the world leader in roadcar brakes. There is no doubt about the McLaren F1 having great brakes, or the 800 tt for that fact.

Once again, you are only looking at optimal acceleration. How often does a driver leave a turn at 60 mph's in the optimal gear, with the coreect engine speed, and so forth, NEVER! The great thing about the McLaren F1 is that it only runs 1.6 sec slower from 60-120 in 4th gear than in 3rd. Further more, when you compare 4th gear times to 5th gear, they are nearly identical. 2nd gear is just marginally faster than 3rd also. What does this all mean? Any gear, any speed, insane acceleration.

A big fat ass figure 8 track is no more than two skid pad tests put toghether. It has very little to do with what a real road track is like, and the car with the highest skid pad will likely be the fastest on the track. All of these tests you keep talking about against other cars just go to show they mean nothing realy. I have never seen a Dodge Viper hold a higher speed than a Porsche GT3(I follow those bad boys and the M3's, go BMW! #1 in the constructors championship currently) through a harder turn. In a softer turn, yes, it is faster. I have physics, you have tests that show no real correlation. I have also never heard anyone say a Viper handles better than a Porsche Turbo(Which is realy funny because the Porsche is a Gran Tourer where as the Viper trys to be a supercar). The McLaren F1 GTR also used the exact same suspension design, and so forth. They put on uprated springs and dampners only, plus a ride hieght lowering. The roadcar can be set up by the owner rather easily, it has fully adjustable shocks and ride height. So the McLaren F1 is capable of handling near the racecar cersion, which is near 2g's in the turns(Not skid pad). This highest rating I have seen for the Viper racecars is 1.8g's, and that was in a high speed sweeper. I will assume the Viper racecar is capable of the same handling abilities as the 800 tt. By this comparison, the McLaren F1 is capable of out handling the 800 tt threw the turns, and don't forget that the Viper racecar weighs less(500lbs I think) than the 800 tt.

We will never know until they race side by side though. Based on the numbers, and some critical thinking, it is a very close race. I believe the McLaren F1 would win, you believe the 800 tt would win. We both have good points. I believe the two cars will have very similar in-gear times, with the transmision being the deciding factor realy(McLaren F1 has one of the sweetest) Handling will go to the McLaren F1, trust me I am not being biased. The 800 tt would outbrake at lower speeds, but based on physics the McLaren F1 should outbrake at higher speeds. The 800 tt's weight is it's downfall here, weight is to the 1.3 power in my braking equation, which means more weight means worse and worse brakng by a larger margin than a lighter car. Why are we even comparing the McLaren F1 to the 800 tt? Shouldn't we be comparing the McLaren F1 LM to it? The McLaren F1 was never even intended to step foot on a race track as a competitor, however the LM was built for the sole purpose of showing what the F1 could do on a track. I think that would be a much better comparison, then again the LM would waste the 800 tt. How about the LM vs. 1000 tt? No contest, 1000 tt all the way!

6. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Âfigure 8 track is no more than two skid pad tests put together. It has very little to do with what a real road track is likeÂ

Quote Motortrend:

ÂThe figure 8 track tests acceleration, braking and hard, long turns in both directions.Â

The track they used had 2 538.5ft straights, and 2, 200ft 180 degree turns.

Meaning the cars start accelerating down the first straight away, the top 4 cars got to 83mph-75mph, then going into the first turn, they braked from 83-75mph, pulled 1.15 - .9 Gs in the turns, and accelerated out of the turns.

That is exactly what you do on a road course. (the title for the figure 8 test was Âfigure eight: the worldÂs most telling little road courseÂ)

ÂI have also never heard anyone say a Viper handles better than a Porsche TurboÂ

Track Times 1-3
Dodge Viper GTS 39.4
Ferarri F355 39.5
Porsche 911 Turbo 40.2

Well IÂll be the first, by looking at these track times, and the viper doing better, anyone could conclude that the viper probably handled better, hence why it beat the 911T.

ÂI believe the two cars will have very similar in-gear timesÂ

I posted times for the cars going from one certain speed (60 and 100) to another (138), yes the 800tt is faster there, those arenÂt exactly in gear times, But I agree they have similar in-gear times.

So we agree on Acceleration.

Now Handling:

ÂHandling will go to the McLaren F1, trust me I am not being biasedÂ

Ok, now I posted a viper beating the 911T on a track.

Going by your quote about you not hearing anyone say the viper out handles a 911T IÂd take it you donÂt believe that viper out handled that 911T.

If thatÂs the case, meaning you donÂt believe the 911T was out-handled, then that means the Viper beat it with Acceleration, and Braking on that track.

We both have good points on handling. Now you could say the 911 was out-handled, if not then the viper won by accel, and braking. So, if the mclaren does out-handle the 800tt, it could still have a chance out accelerating and braking the mclaren.

Braking:

ÂThe 800 tt would outbrake at lower speeds, but based on physics the McLaren F1 should outbrake at higher speedsÂ

Those physics are (earlier posted by you):

ÂThe McLaren has three things going for it when it comes to high speed braking, something does matter on a race track. It weighs less, has a lower center of gravity, and has more braking power available(Both brake system power and tire traction power). So in principle the McLaren F1 should out brake the 800 tt when it comes to higher speed braking.Â

One thing though, the mclaren has 13-in rotors on front, 12s on back. the 800tt 13-in all around with 6-piston calipers.

Also, if it had more braking power, it would be able to stop better than the 800tt at any speed!

Anyway, what I donÂt get is that you can say Âthe mclaren weighs less, has lower center of gravity, so it will out-brake at high speedsÂ

BUT, why does that Only apply to high speed braking??

If the weighs less, has lower center of gravity, and good braking power, couldnÂt you say it Should out-brake the 800tt at any speed??

But it doesnÂt. You say I have no actually proof the 800tt can out-brake at high speeds, True. But neither do you.

And if what your physics say are true about the mclarens braking, I ask, why do they only apply to high speed braking.

Physics say the mclaren weighs less, has lower center of gravity, and good braking power.

So why couldnÂt you say because of these physics, the mclaren should out-brake the 800tt from any speed?

You have physics that point out the mclarens strong points for braking, but for some reason they only apply to high speed driving.

I have tests that show the 800tt out braking the mclaren from 60, 70, and 100.

And it out-braked the mclaren there, when it weighed more, had a higher center of gravity, and good braking power.

Acceleration is all-around, similar.
Handling, close between the two, mclaren probably a little better.
Braking, the 800tt.

Which equals a close race.

7. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Damp track"? That's rubbish. I'm looking at the article in CAR right in front of me. On pate 85, it clearly shows the F1 LM billowing out white smoke behind it as it brakes from the 100 mph run. On a damp track, you don't get WHITE SMOKE from the tires. The text states:
"The tyre waremers are on early, even thought it's a blisteringly hot day...Setting off for a warm-up run to get more comfortable with the feel and balance of the LM, he disappears into the ocean-like heat haze with a howl of V12 and a squeal of rubber. It doesn't look clean; black lines on the runway tell a tale of lost milliseconds."

Squeal of rubber? Black lines on the runway? Heat haze? Blisteringly hot day? And the track is damp? Don't think so...
The term "damp track" appears nowhere in the article.

I'm curious as to why the McLaren F1, with full McLaren crew in tow, ballast weighting, and tire warmers was flat-spotting tires, yet the 800TT does not?

8. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i think the viper can beat it....all u people need to quit hanging on to the f1 cuz it was a good car, still is, but its been surpassed and you need to accept that

9. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi everybody... mm... I'm new... did you even notice? i guess you did.. mm... sorry about grammar and all that stuff but i'm not too good speaking or writting so... sorry ok!? welll i just wanna add something to this... i'm not an expert and i only know the basic specs about viper and a few more cars... but heres something i can say: Viper basic engine was built from a V10 Ram engine... ok so Dodge took a Truck engine and turned it into a high performance engine.... The viper is the most succesfull sport car evermade by Dodge, in the history of dodge there havsd been cars like: Dodge Charger wich is a muscle car that still looks great and it has a sick performance for such and old car, sorry if i'm forgetting about something but i only remember another sportcar from dodge and its the stealth wich is a nice car and has a nice performance for been a front wheel drive 6v Twin Turbo dont you think? , I love Viper it's my favorite car I must say, and I know the Hennessey 800TT and 1000TT are sick cars but if you compare a car thats its about to be 15 years old, with the Mclaren F1 wich was built to be the fastest road car heres something you must remember.

The fact that the Venom it's not considered a production car doesn't matter to me when we you compare it with a car thats costs way more than the venom, in fact i like the venom better because Hennessey is using a car that it's already a great car, and pushing it to limits that the car its ready to reach but maybe Dodge its missing something that Hennessey don't, as i see it when you compare this 2 cars it doesn't matter that Venom its a Modified version of the viper the only thing that matters its that the car has been pushed to that perfomance and it can be compared to a car that in class maybe be better or whatever but, the fact is that the venom can beat a mclaren if mclaren can be better with a few modifications... ok! but if they havent done it, its because maybe they are missing something... something that coul'd push the car to amazing limits but right now a car with a highly evolved truck engine its able to beat a Mclaren, thats something maclaren should me ashame of... lol well thats what i wanted to say, and i must add thats im impressend cause i've read the whole 18 pages about Mclaren Vs. Viper and i'm not tired.. i hope soon there will be more to read.

cya later guys

10. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

no this vs lamborghini dioblo vt evolution that would be awsome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

11. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

venoman And pavell5500, There's actually a link between those two posts.

Venoman, you say you're knew here, And It Shows. I HATE PEOPLE WHO STILL HAVE THE IDEA THE VIPER HAS A V10 RAM TRUCK ENGINE.

It actually has a lamborghini engine in it. (hence connection between two post)

HereÂs the history of the Dodge Viper Engine.

From ViperÂs Technical Overseer, Francois J. Castaing (vice pres. vehicle engineering)

And Thomas C. Gale (vice pres. product design)

Gale ÂWhen we built the concept car, we took a 360 (cubic-inch V-8) and literally grafted on the front two cylinders and made a running engine, so thatÂs how those get done...lots of sweat and lots of good hard work behind the scenes.Â

There would be more development work on the engine.

Castaing put in a call to Mauro Forghieri at Lamborghini Engineering, the technology and Formula 1 development arm of ChryslerÂs legendary Italian sports-car subsidiary.

Lamborghini joined the Viper project in May 1989, at which point Chrysler HADN'T EVEN BUILT A CAST-IRON TRUCK V-10!!!!!!

So Highland Park sent a cadre of engineers to Italy with only drawings in hand.

ÂWe knew the Team was working AT LEAST 18 MONTHS AHEAD OF THE TRUCK ENGINE,Â Castaing recalled.

ÂSo I said Âlets modify [the truck V-10, WHICH AT THE TIME ONLY EXISTED ON PAPER!!!!!] the way we feel we want to have it [for the Viper].Â And we decided we wanted to go with aluminum, replace the [truck unitÂs] cast-iron block and head with aluminum. I suggested using LamborghiniÂs prototyping abilities and experience with aluminum to help us make the conversion and save time. The deal we had with Forghieri was that Lamborghini would help us redesign the block and head for aluminum conversion, and then cast parts for, say, 15 engines as fast as they could in their Formula 1 shops. They assembled the first two aluminum engines, to make sure all the parts and machining were okay, and then shipped everything back. We then took over completely. Everything else was done right here [in Detroit].Â

A V-10 prototype was up and running in mid-April 1990.

The V-10 is based on the originally designed for DodgeÂs 1994 T300 truck line.

But THE VIPER V-10 WAS MADE A YEAR AND A HALF BEFORE THE FIRST PROTOTYPE TRUCK V-10 WAS EVER MADE.

AT THE TIME, THE TRUCK ENGINE WAS ONLY ON PAPER, SO THEY DECIDED TO USE IT.

THEY TOOK THE TRUCK V-10, WHICH THEY HADN'T EVEN MADE, AND ONLY EXISTED ON PAPER, TO LAMBORGHINI WHICH AT THE TIME WAS A PART OF CHRYSLER, AND THEY BUILT THE BLOCK AND HEADS FOR THE FIRST ENGINES.

THEY DIDN'T PHYSICALLY TAKE A TRUCK ENGINE, AND MAKE IT A PERFORMANCE ENGINE, THEY TOOK THE IDEA AND ON PAPER DESIGN OF IT TO LAMBORGHINI WHO MADE IT.

THE LAMBORGHINI ALUMINUM VIPER V-10, WAS MADE A YEAR AND A HALF BEFORE THE FIRST IRON TRUCK V-10!!!

THAT WOULD MAKE THE VIPER'S ENGINE, A LAMBORGHINI V-10 ENGINE, BASED ON A (ONLY ON PAPER, NON-EXISTANT AT THE TIME) TRUCK ENGINE.

So for anyone who says the vipers are crappy cars, and thinks their Euro cars are better, Remember if you say that, you're also saying Lamborghini engines are crappy!!!

In conclusion, the Viper V-10 isn't a truck engine, but a lamborghini built V-10 made from the 'on paper' truck engine which didn't exist until 1 1/2 years later.

Considering the viper v10 was made 18 months Before the truck v10, at lamborghini, this makes the v10 a lamborghini engine first, truck engine second.

I hope everyone reads this so the old 'fact' that the v10 is a truck engine goes away.

Thank you, for reading such a long post.

(All facts and story come from the 1993 book "Viper: pure performance by dodge", by the editors of cosmer guide)

12. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Damn! I guess i were wrong... lol thx for the info dude, now everything is clear to me, the truth is i doubted about vipers engine been a super evolved truck engine, but i never tryed to investigate so, now i know that viper's engine is a lamborghini engine.
I guess i should start reading more... mmm... I'm gonna buy that damn book.

thx for the info

cya

13. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

my opinion...

the mclaren is probably the better car around the track and so on, but is it really worth paying nearly 5 times more for something u'll hide in the garage

14. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

f1 would win

15. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CRX ALL THE WAY

16. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

host no offence but your dumb.... stock for stock the mclaren will anal rape the viper like shit... now a car is a car everyone knows that but a person would buy a car cuz its a million dollars but becuase he likes the car and has the money.. now if he has the money to pay for a mclaren he would be able to pay for a viper... if u took a mclaren and a viper and mod both the same way (twin turbo, shocks, new tires, new breaks and so on) who do u think will win... and also people love the viper to much exspecially the american fans... but in reality the viper sucks in the 1/4 mile WHY: cuz with 10 vipers and each of them has a horsepower range from 800-1100(thats a huge range) 90% of them would be in the 9-10 sec 1/4 mile range.. now that is fast i agree but sucks for the hp numbers when its 1100... this car is only good for racing in a porper track not a 1/4 mile.... and in JGTC the viper gets its ass raped by jap cars and euro cars...

17. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sure the 800tt will beat the mclaren but the mclaren would win if u also put 55000 dollars into the F1... and why are we comparing a stock car with an aftermarket viper... vipers suck anyways... the F1 is so much better... F1 anyday...

18. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I say the Mclaren wins on the race track, but it will be a very close match.

19. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Very informative post, viper 1426.

20. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stock viper vs Stock mclaren: Mclaren wins
Aftermarket(modified) viper vs stock maclaren: Mclaren win
Modified Viper vs Modified Mclaren: ?????

you can't say it is for sure Mclaren will win, 'cause maybe who knows how far a mclaren can be pushed with modifications... maybe mclaren's transmision won't be able to handle the extra HP or maybe Mclaren F1 its already all it can be... who knows, we wont know till someone gets to modifie a Mclaren (if it hasn't been done yet) and test it against a viper... 800TT or 1000TT so until then we'll have to wait.

cya

21. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Aftermarket(modified) viper vs stock mclaren: close one

sorry

22. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

honestly i dont know it is a race i would love to see though

23. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

wow....im gonna get some one to ban u

24. this thread is a #\$%#ing piece of living shit.

i hope everyone who posted above me dies an agonising death.

25. including you <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?displayFAQ=y"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="pitlane/emoticons/wink.gif"></A>

yet i agree with Veyronman. Seriously you guys think that henessy is #\$%#ing god when hes nothig but a chep ass theif who makes fast cars that only last for a few minuites then BOOM!!