this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Discussion in '2000 Hennessey Viper Venom 800TT' started by FireBird175, Jan 24, 2003.

  1. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    man you sound angry.......are you angry?<A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/cboardhtml/emoticons/tongue.gif"></A> i guess your pissed because you know your car cant beat mine. hahahahaha! why do i waist my breath. you know you cant win. if what you say is true about the fastest car not being the best, then why did you put those stupid cars on you top ten list? huh? sure it takes a good driver to win a race. sure you need to be able to handle. and when i refered to kicking some butt in the stryker, i was talking about the track. not the road. so when we talk about road saftey, next time GET YOUR POSTS STRAIT. so what ya gona do brother. youve seen the performance #'s by all the viper fans. you know you cant win. he has already proved you wrong brother. what ya gona do when the viper comes for you? oh yeah one more thing. i love it how you tried to prove us wrong with the F1 on the street. thats why you had to run to the non street legal version of the car. just to have better performance numbers. but then again. you found defeat.
     
  2. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    "Great numbers for the M3 GTR, completely wrong, but great. You have top speed numbers on a racecar, they change the gearing moron, you have acceleration times that are pathetic, I got my numbers from the stat sheet I made when I was watching the American Le Mans series. If you listen to the anouncers, you will find that they seem to know all the goodies on evey car. They do not talk about the GT3 cars very much though, so I did not get all of the numbers I wanted, but that is alright."


    Well, i guess i'm sorry for going to fast-autos.net to get those numbers.


    "Where the hell did you get your information for the racing Viper? There is no way that the racing Viper has 600-700 hp, let alone 750 hp. What the hell were you smoking when you came up with those numbers off the top of your head, crack? When the McLaren F1 GTR has to carry a ristrictor plate for GT1 class that lets it get only 585 hp, this from a engine that gets 680 hp without the restrictor plate, and there was still complaining about it being to fast, then there is no way they would allow a GTS car run as many hp as YOU claim the racing Viper is getting."

    ummm.....those are the specs. from the Dodge Viper web site.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Dodge Viper GTS-R Specifications Front engine, rear wheel drive
    2-passenger, 2 door carbon fiber body
    OHV V-10 488 cu in.
    Power SAE net, 650 BHP @ 6000 rpm
    Torque SAE net, 650 lb-ft @ 5000 rpm
    6-speed manual transmission
    Independent front and rear suspension
    Power assisted rack and pinion steering
    Vented front and rear disc brakes
    27/68-18 front, 30/70-18 rear Michelin Pilot SX slick tires
    Wheelbase 96.2 in.
    Length x Width x Height: 176 x 75.7 x 45.1 in
    Weight: 2750 lbs
    (ESTIMATED) Top Speed: 225 mph
    Base Price: $250,000

    Even the oreca vipers had 600-750hp.

    LOL, YOU'RE THE ONE WHO'S SAYING "the Mclaren has beaten 800+hp racing vipers before and has won LeMans"


    As for the 1.5g's, it's an estimate i've seen and like khari said, the racing vettes are getting 1.44g's


    "yet the last time you instant messaged me you got all of that information about the classes from me. You did not know anything about what type of racing the Viper was involved with at all, other than that it has gotten beaten by the Lister Storm's. You did not even get the class name for the Viper right after I told you it like 10 times. IT IS A GTS class car. While GTS is the same thing as what GT2 used to be for the most part, there are many differences also. Where the hell do you think they got the name Viper GTS-R? There asses? So until you can get the class name of what your car races in correct, I will not trust any of your information. I do not know why I ever trusted any of it seeing how you repeatidly post the same wrong information even though I have corrected your numbers with numbers that have been tested, and then they were printed in Car Magazine, and many other widely avaiable magazines. If you say Car Magazine, or Evo Magazine are not widely avaiable, then go to a Barnes & Noble, look in the car Magazine department once a week until it shows up. Car is the most read austomotive magazine in the world. It has also been voted the best designed magazine in the U.K. numerous times, and was the best designed magazine of the decade for the U.K. also. It breaks news on American car companies before the American mags do. Heck when ever I do pick up an American mag it is usually three months behind the Car's and Evo's."


    Hey thanks for all the info. on the LeMans series, although i have known the vipers racing history.

    Also, you're the one saying the vipers can't get 600-700hp, yet before you've said, "the mclaren has beaten racing vipers with 800+hp"

    Team Oreca Vipers took the GT-2 Championship 3 years in a row. Original cars were 750hp+ but recent class restrictions lowered that to approximately 650 700hp.

    Dodge Viper GTSRlm
    Price: $250-350,000.+ est
    Status: Racing American Le Mans Series

    As for the car magazines, like i said, sorry for getting the bmw's #'s from any other source.

    Now this thread is "800tt vs. Mclaren"

    I will state this.

    The best all around car in the comparison is the Mclaren

    As for the best car performance wise, like i've said before,

    "In comparison with a 800tt and regular Mclaren F1, well the 800tt would win a drag race, and COULD (if you notice in all my post, i never say the 800tt CAN beat a Mclaren on a track) or might have a chance at beating it, but it would be a close race."

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  3. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    puinto a mclaren engine<A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/cboardhtml/emoticons/smile.gif"></A>
     
  4. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I have made a mistake in my information on the Viper racecar. I did not read fully about the car that the numbers were for, and have now found that they the numbers are what it was producing with restrictor plates for a different racing league. Sorry about the wrong numbers, and the 600-700 hp numbers are correct. There have apparantly been rule changes since I last looked at them, and they must be restricting the cars by adding weight to them rather than restrictor plates. I will look at the new rules and double check to see how they are doing it now.
     
  5. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    You could do all that, but there's no point, considering race car specs. are not what's being compared in regards to this thread titled "800tt vs. mclaren"

    and with all that's been said, all the numbers posted, it comes down to: "the 800tt would win a drag race, and COULD (if you notice in all my post, i never say the 800tt CAN beat a Mclaren on a track) or might have a chance at beating it, but it would be a close race."
     
  6. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    HERE'S A LOT OF INFO. ON THE RACING VIPERS THOUGH, IF ANYONE CARES:

    The GTS-R's engine retains the stock cylinder block, heads, and crankshaft (the latter turned down to accept the more plentiful Chrysler Hemi bearings). Carillo Racing connecting rods and J+E pistons help the ’97 version of the 8.0-liter OHV V-10 spin to a lofty 7200 rpm, 1000 higher than the rev limit we used in France. The sound is more multicam than pushrod, much like a Formula One Cosworth from 30 years ago rather than a current NASCAR motor. Typical for racers, Team Viper plays coy with horsepower figures, but we estimate the ’96 version made a bit more than 650 horses, despite breathing through the required pair of intake restrictors. Who knows what it would make with an open intake!

    For ’97, a new 10-throttle-butterfly, single-plenum intake helps boost power beyond, we surmise, 680 horsepower, and torque perhaps tops a titanic 700 pound-feet with the GT1 restrictors installed. To avoid competing with the loophole-exploiting Porsche 911 GT1 and million-dollar McLaren F1 GTR, however, most Viper GTS-Rs will run smaller intake restrictors -- down from 38.2 to 32.4 millimeters -- and enter the closer-to-stock GT2 class. At low and middle revs the smaller restrictors don’t significantly hinder power or torque, but will cut about 1000 rpm and 100 horsepower off the peak, said Team Viper’s GTS-R Program Manager Neil Hannemann, a champion driver in his own right (with whom yours truly co-drove a pair of 24-hour race wins).

    The result is beyond-outrageous performance. Try 0-60 mph in 2.9 seconds and 0-100 mph in just 5.4 seconds with a 10.3-second/143.9-mph quarter mile. (The rain prevented testing in France, so these incredible numbers were obtained by Team Viper from a Pi Research onboard data-acquisition system affixed to a beyond-680-horsepower ’97 GT1-spec GTS-R driven by racer Tommy Archer.)


    Pretty amazing Acceleration numbers for the GTS-R, they're better than the Mclarens' (though the Mclaren, b/c of tons of other factors, including excellet handling, beat the restricted GTS-Rs)


    But i really wish they had put the GTS-Rs in the GT1 class, they could've, but didn't. <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/cboardhtml/emoticons/sad.gif"></A>

    "To avoid competing with the loophole-exploiting Porsche 911 GT1 and million-dollar McLaren F1 GTR, however, most Viper GTS-Rs will run smaller intake restrictors -- down from 38.2 to 32.4 millimeters -- and enter the closer-to-stock GT2 class. "
     
  7. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Explain the loopholes that Porsche and McLaren exploited. How did they exploit loop holes that gave them less horespower than what the Vipers got?

    What does the rest of the at mean? It means that because the McLaren GTR with 585 hp was beating the Viper with 650+ hp, then McLaren must being exploiting loop holes. Come on he even says that the McLaren is superior in every other way, so I must quote this,

    viper1426: "Pretty amazing Acceleration numbers for the GTS-R, they're better than teh McLaren's (though the McLaren, b/c of toms of other factors, including excelle(n)t handling, beat the restricted GTS-Rs)"

    So the McLaren beat the Viper because it handles better than it, and the Viper was ristricted to what again? 650+ hp, that is what they are getting the the GT2 class, which is more restrictive. Maybe with less restrictions in GT1 it would have 700+ hp, who knows? So It already beat teh GT1 basically off that quote alone if you want to go with what viper1426 has to say about it. The thing is though, that is right the Vipers from what the information we have on the table says about the rae cars, they do have that many hp, and the McLaren already beat them, so there is no point in saying they maybe ever could. Plus, the cars we are talking about may have had 700+ hp in the engine bay, that is 115+ more hp than the McLaren, and it needed more restrictions? How much slower do you want there car to be so you can win off shear acceleration? 500 hp sound right? So a I quote, "a beyond-680-horsepower '97 GT1 -spec GTS-R driven by racer Tommy Archer." in the Viper versus a 585 hp engine in the McLaren, and the McLaren is exploiting loop holes? I don't see it, and if they are exploiting loop holes, they are still down 115+ hp to the Viper.

    In conclusion, your source says that the McLaren is a better car than teh GT1 Viper. You say that the GT1 maybe be better than the McLaren, and say that it accelerates faster the the McLaren GTR? I have seen many 0-100 times on race GTR's running it in sub 6's and close to high 5's on occasions. So they may even out accelerate the Viper GT1's. So the McLaren is faster because it out handles the Viper even though the Viper also has a 115+ hp advantage. The Viper must be one crappy car in the area of handling for the McLaren to out handle it that heavily. So the McLaren has already beaten a car that is .2's slower in 0-60 and .4's in 0-100 by several laps at Le Mans, that is not a big enough difference to make up for the cars lack of handling, and the McLarens strong engine that pulls all over, and is one of the best ever not because it had the most power, but because it had so much every where. If you are to dumb to see that the McLaren is better than the Viper now, and that 800 hp will not make a difference, then I guess you will never see it. And one last point the drummer for Pink Ployd, Nick Mason, owns one of the GTR's that raced at Le Mans. He has done nothing to the car besides adding all the saftey equipement needed to make the car road legal. He has driven the car on many occasions, and loves the centeral driving postion. He also says that the car is quite tractable. Hey you can still drive the McLaren F1 GTR on the road, yes! Finally a street legal racecar! And it is capable of winning Le Mans, the most prestigous endurance race in the world.
     
  8. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    WOW, i was just being nice by posting some info. on racing vipers i found. i didn't mean for any of it to be debated over, or for you to go off on it, LOL


    But you want to debate it, fine:

    Now about the loop hole exploiting stuff, well i don't even know what that means, but if you look at the info it says "the loop-hole exploiting porsche" nothing about the mclaren (and i also don't know what the loop-hole porsche means)


    "the Viper versus a 585 hp engine in the McLaren, and the McLaren is exploiting loop holes? I don't see it, and if they are exploiting loop holes, they are still down 115+ hp to the Viper."


    it's not all about HP, like i've said, the Mclaren beat the vipers b/c of handling as well.

    You say b/c the viper has more hp, it sould be able to beat a mclaren, but keep in mind, a street trim mclaren runs about 2464 lbs.

    In GT1 specs. it's probably lighter than that, and either way, the Mclaren has what is called a Better Power-to-Weight ratio, so maybe that's another reason it's beating a GT2 viper.

    Also, what about all the other cars in GT2? some (like the vettes) are running more hp than the Mclaren aswell, and getting better acceleration numbers, (take a look at the BMWM3GTR) you've posted the numbers on that car, 2.2 to 60 and a 5sec 0-100 time. Want to know why that car isn't beating a mclaren? it weighs about the same as a mclaren (around 2400lbs.) but is has 444hp, or around 120hp less than a mclaren.

    Power-to-weight ratio, and great handling is why the mclaren is probably winning LeMans.


    "So the McLaren is faster because it out handles the Viper even though the Viper also has a 115+ hp advantage"

    Hey the viper also has a 325lbs.+ disadvantage compared to the Mclaren.



    "If you are to dumb to see that the McLaren is better than the Viper now, and that 800 hp will not make a difference, then I guess you will never see it"


    Actually, 800hp will make a difference

    In HP to LBS. Ratio:

    Mclaren = 4.2119 Lbs. / HP

    800tt = 4.1416 Lbs. / HP

    So the 800tt has a better Power-to-weight ratio than a Mclaren.



    Now look BMW, like i stated at the begining of this post, I DIDN'T MEAN ANYTHING BY POSTING THAT INFO.
    I was just trying to post the numbers of the viper GTS-R that you haven't seen. LOL


    Now, like i've stated before:

    "The 800tt would win a drag race, and COULD (if you notice in all my post, i never say the 800tt CAN beat a Mclaren on a track) or might have a chance at beating it, but it would be a close race."

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  9. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Firstly the acceleration times of the F1 GTR are very dependent on what kind of gearing the car's have. The F1 GTR is geared more for acceleration above 40-50 mph range. The F1 GTR owns any other car for acceleration times above 50 mph because that matters more than 0-60 times. The BMW is probably set up to start realy accelerating at 20-30 mph. Also the times for the BMW M3 GTR are what it was capable of, and I am sure that with gearing similar to a McLarens it would not be even close to it. You also must remember that the times they are running are with racing slicks also, were as the McLaren GTR times are on street tires. The 800 tt was using street slick tyres that are banned for street use in many places, and the times that cars get on them are not recognized by anyone who knows anything about cars. So we must then look at the 800 tt's times, which are the same as the McLarens for 0-60, worse for 0-100, and the 1/4 mile the trap speed is the same, so they are equal through that aswell.

    Now if you remember I posted the times of the BMW M3 GTR to show that the racecar version of the Viper has similar times to the 800 tt, and you have actually shown that is faster to 60 and 100 than the 800 tt.

    Now I will say this again, 0-60 does not mean anything on the race track. 0-100 means a little more, 1/4 mile about the same, and g's on a skid pad mean nothing. The same thing goes for the road.
     
  10. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    i realy couldn't b bothered readin' all that so can some 1 wrap it up nice and small!
     
  11. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Someone compared the Viper to Mclaren, and from then on its been a comparison of race records, acceleration and handling.

    Small enough for you? <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/cboardhtml/emoticons/smile.gif"></A>
     
  12. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I will sum my side of the argument up in three points:

    1. There is more to being the best raod car or racecar besides speed, and numbers on paper like 0-60, 0-100, and g's on the pad. I have been able to however successfully argue that the McLaren is stil fast than the 800 tt based on acceleration numbers, and on track times.

    2. To be the best road car ever, you need to advance the auto industry, and if you do not do it better then the best car, then it is very had to top it. The McLaren does this by far many more times than the 800 tt.

    3. It must have one of the best driving experience's, if not the best. Usually the best road car for performance, maybe not on paper, has the best driving experience. The McLaren F1 has the best experience I have ver heard of, or experienced. I will quote the man who has driven at the F1 level, and has driven the F1 at 24.1 mph, Johnathan Palmer said, "People ask me what it was like and all I tell them is compared to a Formula One car it actually felt faster."

    I will leave the sumnation at that.

    Check out the "this is not the best car" or something like that forum also. It has a lot of info on the 800 tt vs. the McLaren in there aswell.
     
  13. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    1. WOW, so you say you argued "successfully"? that the mclaren is faster? (maybe you should read my posts again) <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/cboardhtml/emoticons/tongue.gif"></A>

    Now in a comparison:

    Mclaren F1

    0-60: 3.2 sec.
    0-100: 6.3 sec.
    1/4 mile: 11.1 @ 138

    800tt (street tires):
    0-60: 3.21
    (est.) 0-100: 6.6
    1/4 mile: 10.71 @ 137.6


    2. Yeah, the Mclaren you could say "raised the bar" for supercars when it came out, but the viper 800tt, has done, kind of, the same for vipers.

    3. well, IMO, putting some street legal slicks on a 800tt, and being able to do 2.43 to 60 on a street, that would be a good experience to.


    Now, for some reason in the "this is not the best car" thread, there, the 800tt was compared with the Mclaren, and here in the "800tt vs. Mclaren " thread, it was the GTS-R, and mclaren that were compared, LOL.


    As for my summary, like i've been saying:

    "The 800tt would win a drag race, and COULD (if you notice in all my post, i never say the 800tt CAN beat a Mclaren on a track) or might have a chance at beating it, but it would be a close race."

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  14. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    1. Yeah, your numbers there prove the McLaren is just as fast on paper for acceleration. It is the same to 60, .3sec faster to 100, and has the same trap speed as the 800 tt on the 1/4 mile strip. If you did not know this already, the trap speed is the only thing that realy matters, and I quetion the time of the 800 tt seeing how it is a sec. quicker, yet does the same speed.

    2. So are Vipers more important than the auto industry? Or are they just as important? That is what you are saying there basically. The 800 tt did the same for Vipers as the McLaren did for the car industry. so it matches it on that aspect. Also how could I say "raised the bar" for supercars? It did raise the bar for supercars. Everyone that knows anything about cars knows that the McLaren F1 raised the bar, and realy forced the industry as a whole forward to a point aswell. If youi doubt the impact of the McLaren F1, then you must not know anything about the history of the auto industry, and realy are

    3. That is a pretty good experience probably, but that is nothing compared to feeling faster than a Formula One car.

    Also, the reason for that is on eof the forums is in one are, and the other a different area. If you would like, I can pile all of the numbers, and quotes, and what not on you all in one place. Would you like me to just argue everything at once or something? How would you like to see my post lengths then?

    Also here is a new point for you to taste, if it was not for the McLaren F1, your car probably would not exist right now. It would probably be 5 years off. Think about that, the McLaren is the reason the 800 tt exists!
     
  15. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    So are Vipers more important than the auto industry? Or are they just as important? That is what you are saying there basically"


    No, i'm just saying that the 800tt did for vipers, what the mclaren did for supercars.


    "Would you like me to just argue everything at once or something? How would you like to see my post lengths then?"


    No thanks, let's keep it in the two 800tt not the best, and vs. mclaren threads. (less complicated) <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/cboardhtml/emoticons/smile.gif"></A>


    "Think about that, the McLaren is the reason the 800 tt exists!"


    Actually the gts, was started one year after the original Rt10 came out in 92, 1993 is when the coupe GTS concept came out, and in 96 the gts went into production.
    Not long after, Hennessey started making performance vipers, starting with the 500, and later making the 650R (which is a great N/A viper, with #'s to rival the mclaren)

    So i wouldn't exactly say the mclaren is responcible for the 800tt

     
  16. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Well the tuner cars yoiu mention came out after the McLaren F1. Also the McLaren F1 concept goes back to the late middle 80's, with the first concept car comany out in 89 I believe. Isn't that the year Dodge started on the Viper?

    Also I am talking about how if it was not for the McLaren, many of the modern supercars would be less than they are. Many of teh tuner cars, like the 800 tt, would be less than they are more than likely. Also explain how the 800 tt advanced the Viper industry. I do not see how a car's impact can be measured in two years.

    I believe you are confused on what I mean by arguing everyting at once. I mean all of the points for the comparison between the 800 tt and the McLaren. If you look in the "this car is not the best" thread you will see that I have many other points in there. I also have started the campaign for the Volvo 240! Here are some pictures to show what it can do. Go to the thread for all the details.
     
  17. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Remember, that is only one man's opinion on how the Mclaren's driving experience felt. I believe it was Andy Wallace (could be wrong on who said it) who said that the Mclaren felt "aerodynamically unstable" at higher speeds, and didn't think too much of its handling, claiming body roll through the corners. Different strokes for different folks.
     
  18. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    the viper only looks 100 times better it is actually faster as posted on Dodge-vipers.com the mclaren looks pretty plain the viper also sounds better
     
  19. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Like Khari said "Different strokes for different folks. "

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  20. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    The McLaren does feel unstable above 200 mph, it does not have enough downforce to feel stable, but it is rather stable above 200 acctually. the reason it does not have that much downforce is so that the car will not follow the contours of the road as much. The aerodynamics for the car were set up for the street, not for high speed runs. The same goes for the suspension, it was designed to give a comfortable ride more than a performance ride. Also, if you do not like the ride the McLaren gives you, change it! It has a fully adjustable suspension on the damn thing from the factory, and if memory serves me right, McLaren offers tuning tips for the suspension.
     
  21. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    "Isn't that the year Dodge started on the Viper?"

    In 1989, at the SEMA show, they unvieled the viper concept car.


    "Also I am talking about how if it was not for the McLaren, many of the modern supercars would be less than they are. Many of the tuner cars, like the 800 tt, would be less than they are more than likely. Also explain how the 800 tt advanced the Viper industry. I do not see how a car's impact can be measured in two years."


    Yeah, i'm sure the tuners at HMS, and lingenfelter said "we need to beat the mclaren"

    Also, in 1988, callaway made the sledgehammer vette, which does 254mph, and this was done before the Mclaren,

    But yet "Many of the tuner cars, like the 800 tt, would be less than they are more than likely" you say b/c of the mclaren, But then there's the sledgehammer in 88', interesting.


    "Also explain how the 800 tt advanced the Viper industry. I do not see how a car's impact can be measured in two years."


    Well, b/c of the 800tt, there's now the 1000tt, and the, coming soon, 1700hp twin turbo SVS, rocket sled viper, street legal car.
     
  22. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    What I was trying to get at, was that there's no way to say "one car has a better driving experience" because what's good to someone might be downright dreadful for another. Take for example those who love driving SUVs, and would never consider switching back to a smaller car. Does everyone feel this way? Obviously not, give me a small sports car any day of the week, and I'll get a u-haul when I need to get something around. Other journalists have tested the Mclaren with its stock suspension settings and loved how it drove, even around corners. Obviously Andy Wallace didn't feel the same.

    Summed up: There is no such thing as a car with a better driving experience, only different experiences.
     
  23. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I believe I'm the one who said that...
     
  24. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Why would you compare a car that cost 130,000 to one that cost over 800,000 that is ugly plain and why dose it have gold in it the viper has better grip if you read it has 1.06 g's on the skidpad
     
  25. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    The gold is used to dissipate heat in the engine bay.
     

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