this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Discussion in '2000 Hennessey Viper Venom 800TT' started by FireBird175, Jan 24, 2003.

  1. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Better stop making assumptions before you go off calling others slow.

    " The most reliable engine, according to J.D Power at least, is the BMW M Power V12 in the McLaren F1. So I do not see how you can jump to the conclusion that a push rod V10 is more reliable than a DOHC V12. "

    Absolutely and totally irrelavent. How do you compare two six cylinders connected to a common driveshaft to a V12 in a million dollar car? You can be sure BMW had quite the budget when they designed that engine, which could account for the reliability. How about looking at the other end of the spectrum when talking OHC. Why don't companies like Ferrari and TVR offer warranties over 2 years? The cars simply weren't engineered to last much longer, and unless you have some weird fetish for rebuilding engines, or have the money to maintain a car like that, it certainly isn't wise to keep it too long. Now before you go ahead and accuse me of anything, I never assumed one was more reliable than the other. Too bad I can't say the same about you.


    Say what you like about the Viper's handling, but it's obvious you've never driven one. Reserve your opinion until you do, and you might be surprised, I sure was. It's kind of like people saying the NSX is underpowered, remember, the people saying these things drive supercars for a living, and what is "slow" or "laggy" to them, might be lightning fast for those of us who drive an average car day to day.

    As for reliability, you said yourself, you're just assuming. Unless you have experience having owned a Viper, or can post something that proves it isn't reliable, don't make such biased assumptions.

    "if they met side by side at a stop light neither one would smoke the other one, there is a big difference between test driver, and the average Joe driving these cars"

    Is that a fact? Then why do I see people running their bone stock Viper (and we're talking pre 2003 here) through the 1/4 mile in just under 12 seconds? Magazine testers seem to get just over 12s. Whoops, another of your assumptions seems slightly off-base, so you might like to reconsider before talking out of your ass like that.

    Also, do you know how big of a difference there is between 3.8 and 4.5 in 0-60? Absolutely huge. The fact that the Vanquish weighs about 4000lbs might hinder it just a little bit, espescially when it's down about 50hp and almost 100 lb/ft of torque.

    (Why are you avoiding you "This car is not the best" forum? )
     
  2. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    bmwm3gtr200:
    Do you know of anyone who routinely drives a McLaren F1 on a regular basis? Tracks it on a regular basis? There was a guy on the pistonheads forum who had one a year or two back. He had put it away because of the exorbitant running costs, and last I heard had basically mothballed it.

    The pushrod engine has fewer parts than an OHC engine. Particularly if you want to talk about DOHC engines with 4 valves per cylinder. There's a reason why the pushrod V8 has been around for so long. And not in just American cars, either.

    The slalom has almost *nothing* to do with acceleration. All cars basically get a running start, going in as fast as is reasonable without spinning out. Whether they can maintain that run at that speed involves many factors. The Viper is slow to react? That's totally false. It has one of the quickest reacting steering out there, short of a Mitsubishi Evo and Mini Cooper. It has a very short turn from lock to lock. Trust me, no car that runs 69-72 mph in Motor Trend's slalom is slow to react by any means. That is very fast indeed. Not to mention the 800TT is faster still.
     
  3. #103 SwedeLBROCK, Apr 10, 2003
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Do you think I just made the Vanquish 0-60 figure up!?

    I got the specs from the Aston Martin homepage and it says that the V12 Vanquish goes from 0-62 in 5.0 seconds. So, OK the 0 - 60 figure might be something like 4.8 - 4.9 sec or something, but NOT 4.5 sec like you said.

    Check it out for yourself:

    http://www.astonmartin.com/vanquish_specs_base.html

    Stop speculating and back up your thoughts with some facts!

    The Viper warranty is 7 years / 70.000 miles.
    What's the warranty on Vanquish?

    I don't know what kind of average Joe you're talking about, your average senior citizen Joe maybe, But I can ensure you that if I was in a Viper and you were in a Vanquish at a stoplight - Then your ass would be toast <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/cboardhtml/emoticons/smile.gif"></A>
     
  4. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Exactly!
     
  5. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    All of you people shut up. Viper was designed by lambo and is now owned by mercedes. The only reason the new vipers are so good is because mercedes took it back to germany and fixed all its mistakes. The viper is no more an american muscle car, but a european super car
     
  6. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    ...Don't do drugs man, it's bad for you.
     
  7. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    so does that mean if you bring a lambo over here and put a bumper sticker on it.......its considered an american sports car?
    did you know weed is bad for you?
     
  8. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    weed is very good for you. It helps you aet sleep and many other things. plus what does weed have to do with this forumn. viper will aslways be the ugliest and dumbest car ever created
     
  9. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    With that kind of opinion, i'd take it you hate the dodge vipers.
    So with that, stay away from dodge vipers forums.

    I would think that if someone hated something (or a certain car) that they'd stay away from it.
     
  10. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    no i just think people who like vipers are really ignorant
     
  11. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    SO PEOPLE THAT LIKE A CAR THAT CAN DO (2002 GTS stock) 0-60 in 3.89, 1/4 in 11.97 @ 121, skidpad 1.01, slalomn 73.6

    or srt10 2003 viper, 0-60: 3.8, 1/4 11.86 @ 121, skid 1.04, slalomn 68, 60-0 braking 104ft

    or 800tt (street tires) 60 in 3.2, 1/4 in 10.71 @ 137

    PEOPLE WHO LIKE A CAR THAT CAN GIVE PERFORMANCE #'S LIKE THAT ARE IGNORANT????

    Like i said, if you hate something, i would think you'd stay away from it.
     
  12. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    This coming from someone who thinks a car can be dumb? It's hard to take your insults seriously when you can't even string together basic sentences (you know, punctuation and things alike).
     
  13. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    man i am a newb u gyus are owning me
     
  14. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    You are a what?
     
  15. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Alrighty, a lot has happened in the past few days. Anyways, we are talking about weed's affects, how the Viper was designed by Lambo, and SLR is a newb.

    First off, weed is the choice drug of genii, so not only dumb people smoke weed. It also is a lot better for you than most of you ignorant morons will think. IF you do not believe me I will just post the research from the only studies done in the US, and you will see for yourself that it does not affect morral values. It also does not slow reaction times in mature smokers, but first timers there was a slight drop in reaction time. On a standard memory test the mature smokers showed no difference in their scores between sober and high, and actuallys several did better when high. the tests also showed that you are not likely to be more violent, or anything like that when high, but rather just want to chill.

    I have read in a couple of books on the Viper that the upper half of the engine is very close to that in the Lambo's, and even that Lamborghini designed the upper half. I have not heard this anywere else, so I am not sure of it's reliablility. I have heard though that the engine in the Viper is just one of there truck engines that was tuned, and had a few new parts put on it. That I have heard many times from people at Dodge, so I know that the damn engine in the Viper is a truck engine. I have heard two things about the Mercedes take over of Chrysler with relation to the Viper. first is that the Viper is borrowing parts from Mercedes. Second is that Merceds told them to make a car that doesn't get thrashed on by the Europeans. So I think Mercedes is a little upset with the Viper themselves. Hey what should you expect from a marketing exercise? Yes that is right the Viper was made to save Dodge, and was purly designed to increase interest in Dodge.

    Now what was said about SLR being a newb by himself, that we will just take for fact and wonder why a newb made so many pointless posts.
     
  16. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Lambo designed the Viper engine? You guys are outta your mind. When's the last time Lambo built a *pushrod* engine?

    The Viper V10's architecture dates back to the LA Series V8 found in Dodge's Ram trucks. Dodge owned Lambo at the time and approached them with the Viper engine project. They had a prototype, built from 2 siamesed V8 iron block truck engines. Lambo took this and converted the design over to an alloy version. While they met Dodge's requirement for hp, they couldn't do it without sacrificing reliability. The agreement originally called for 4 or 5 running engines. They got back from Lambo an engine that was basically in parts. That's where the two departed, and Dodge had to virtually do everything over again, with their standard warranty guidelines for durability in mind. In the end, the truck and Viper engine shared architecture and connecting rods, and that's about it.

    Lambo had no hand in designing the Viper. The current Viper is still very much a Dodge product, built in the same plant as the Gen II Vipers. In fact, after the Daimler takeover, Benz officials toured this plant to get ideas about hand building their new Maybach.
     
  17. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU!!!!!! Ok let's compare this to an F1. A turbo charged Mclaren maybe! No matter whether its stock or modified the Mclaren would murder this on the track. Noob post yet again!
     
  18. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Ok, this thread is one about a comparison between a mclaren and a 800tt so:

    97 McLaren F1:
    0-60: 3.2 sec
    0-100: 6.3 sec
    1/4 Mile: 11.1 sec @ 138 mph
    Skidpad: .86g
    Braking, 60-0 mph: 127 ft
    Slalom Speed: 64.5 mph


    Venom 800TT:
    0-60 mph: 2.4 sec
    0-100 mph: 5.5 sec
    Quarter Mile: 9.99 sec @ 138.95 mph
    Skidpad: 1.06g
    Braking, 60-0 mph: 110 ft
    Slalom Speed: 75.1 mph

    Venom 800TT (street tires):
    0-60: 3.21
    EST. 0-100: 6.6
    1/4 Mile: 10.71 @ 137.6 mph


    And that basically proves, that in a straight line, the 800tt would win.

    Now on a track IMO, i'd say a close race.

    Considering the 800tt can brake better into a corner, and accelerate almost as fast as a mclaren out, and hold in the corner with a 1.06g and 75.1 slalomn, and on the straights have an advantage, i'd say that it would be a Close race, BUT the Mclaren would win.

    As for the rest (overall stuff) i will say, the Mclaren was made, like bmw said, to be the ultimate road car, giving a great street car experience. But then the 800tt is street legal, and doing 60 in 2.43 secs. would be another ultimate experience.

    But the 800tt, and most vipers, are not the best daily driving cars. They're meant for a track, and on a road, daily driven, wouldn't give a really good ride. (But you could drive it daily with its' 3yr/36k mile warranty)

    But then there is price, and for 1 million, you'd expect the Mclaren to do all of what it does.
    Now for the 170k price of a viper, you get FAST performance.

    So Overall for $1mill. The Mclaren.

    For Just performance for $170k the 800tt.

    <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/cboardhtml/emoticons/smile.gif"></A>
     
  19. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Good post. That'll sum it up pretty good.

    Still Viper for me though.
     
  20. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    And you know this because you have tested the two cars against each other on a track...or...wait a minute, what? you haven't?...well, alrighty then...You can speculate all you want but you could at least come up with some facts to support your thoughts.
     
  21. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Well, on a track i'd say it would be a close race between the two, considering some of thier performance aspects are close. I'd like to say the viper would win, but with everything BMW posted, i'll say:

    Straight line performance = viper

    Track = either
     
  22. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    That's tough.

    The Viper is 600 lbs heavier, but has 170 more horse.

    The Viper will out-accelerate a McLaren on the low end (0-100 MPH).

    Since Aerodynamics is more important on the high end (100-200 MPH) than weight, my conjecture would be that the McLaren accelerates faster there.






     
  23. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Masterviper has a quote like "to anyone responding on supercars.net, please read a thread before you post"

    If you looked at this thread, you'd see all the numbers posted for the cars.


    "The Viper is 600 lbs heavier, but has 170 more horse."


    Mclaren weighs 2840, and has 627hp and 479lbs of torque

    The 800tt weighs 3500, has 833hp, and 902lbs of torque

    so the 800tt has 660more lbs. and 206 more hp, and 423 MORE LBS. OF TORQUE.

    What this translates for power/weight ratio is:

    800tt: 4.2 lbs per HP

    Mclaren: 4.5 lbs per HP

    So the 800tt has a better power to weight ratio


    "The Viper will out-accelerate a McLaren on the low end (0-100 MPH).

    Since Aerodynamics is more important on the high end (100-200 MPH) than weight, my conjecture would be that the McLaren accelerates faster there."


    Look at the numbers posted

    Mclaren to 100: 6.3
    800tt: 6.6 (estimated on street tires, and on street slicks 5.5)

    As for 100-200mph

    1/4mile for mclaren: 11.1 @ 138

    For 800tt (street tires): 10.71 @ 138

    So from 100-138 the 800tt has the Mclaren beat by .69 seconds (mclaren 100-138 = 4.8, and 800tt = 4.11)

    <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/cboardhtml/emoticons/smile.gif"></A>
     
  24. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    If i had to pick one, it would be the McLaren because of its styling and rareness. But they are both very nice cars, and the Viper has extremely good performance for its price hands down.But people who talk about the price mattering, the Mclaren isn't a thing to multi-millionaires so what does it matter? I dont own either car though so i cant be sure on what one would win. And untill we get someone on here that OWNS both cars, we cant really say. peace
     
  25. Re: this v.s mclaren f-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Hey im sort of new at this but the McLaren is a non-turbo engine. And the Viper is a twin turbo engine. Just imagine how much HP a McLaren would make if it had a twin turbo V12 under it's hood. So it's pretty good for a non-turbo engine.
     

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