This vs Jap cars like...AB-flug Supra & Veilside Supra, ect.

Discussion in '2000 Hennessey Viper Venom 800TT' started by Bluey, Sep 12, 2002.

  1. Re: This vs Jap cars like...AB-flug Supra & Veilside Supra, ect.

    Where did you get that info ???
    Porsche will always be able to outhandle any viper

     
  2. Re: This vs Jap cars like...AB-flug Supra & Veilside Supra, ect.

    Any reason why it specifically says on suprastore.com that that Supra is NOT a street car? Oh, maybe it's the sequential shift transmission? I think if the 800TT had that, it'd knock .11 sec off its best time pretty easily.
     
  3. Re: This vs Jap cars like...AB-flug Supra & Veilside Supra, ect.

    here's a comparison for you.
    from: fast-autos.net

    porsche GT2
    0-60 mph: 4.0 sec
    0-100 mph: 9.1 sec
    Quarter Mile: 12.3 sec @ 116 mph
    Skidpad: .98g
    Top Speed: 196 mph
    Braking, 60-0 mph: 117 ft
    Slalom Speed: 68.1 mph

    Viper ACR
    0-60 mph: 4.0 sec
    0-100 mph: 9.6 sec
    Quarter Mile: 12.0 sec @ 122 mph
    Skidpad: 1.02g
    Top Speed: 192 mph
    Braking, 60-0 mph: 122 ft
    Slalom Speed: 72.4 mph

    pretty close, but i think in this case, the viper outhadles the porsche.


     
  4. Re: This vs Jap cars like...AB-flug Supra & Veilside Supra, ect.

    you wanna know why the 2.6liters could have more hp?, and its not because american cars dont use technology that we have available to us... its a thing called psi, the viper is probably running about 8psi per turbo to get that 800hp, and guess what it takes a skyline to get over 800hp? around 30psi per turbo... but what does it all mean!!?? its a thing called reliability and guess what when ur running 30psi per turbo then you dont have reliabilty, and anyway, the blitz skyline with 850hp isnt as fast as this
     
  5. Re: This vs Jap cars like...AB-flug Supra & Veilside Supra, ect.

    just because it runs on street tires, doesn't really mean it's a street legal car, kind of like the Venom 800TT, just because it runs street slicks doesn't mean it's a straight line car.
     
  6. Re: This vs Jap cars like...AB-flug Supra & Veilside Supra, ect.

    Whoa! The normal transmission in an R32 Skyline is a 6-speed? Wow.
     
  7. Re: This vs Jap cars like...AB-flug Supra & Veilside Supra, ect.

    I love reading forums like these. The continuously ongoing argument, which is better, foreign or domestic. There really is no "better" its merely opinion. I myself like alot of things. I respect the old american muscle, for sheer power, but they are nonetheless, INEFFICIENT. Dont argue with this, its a fact. Many of these average 70 Hp per liter or LESS. Pushrods are very inefficient, due to more weight, and much friction, and more reciprocating mass, versus, SOHC or DOHC. Sure, this 800TT has so much power, but look at the size of the engine versus the Lingenfelter vette. 8 second car versus a 10.7 second car. Obvious choice on quality. The vette has lightweight pistons/rods and other internals = increased efficiency. Another big thing. Muscle car guys seem to HATE the high pitched whine of imports. This may get annoying at times, but, its a sign of QUALITY. The Honda S2000 has a redline of 9500, which shows high quality. This also produces 120HP per liter. I have never seen a muscle car produce this, even my favorite muscle, the Shelby Cobra, which has a 427(7 liters) producing 409HP, which is 58.5HP per liter, not impressive enough for me, but that doesnt mean I would love the car. I also would like to comment on the person who said the supra was not street legal due to the sequential transmission. That was a really a good way to make an ass of yourself. A sequential transmission is 100% legal, every state in the US, and everywhere in the world. Look at the Koenigsegg CC - 6-speed sequential transmission. Street legal in the US. And Skyline GTR's all come with 6-speeds. I dont think the regular skylines do. What might I be talking about? Believe it or not, there are Skyline SEDANS. I had the opportunity to see one when I was in Tokyo. I like when people also compare tuner cars to factory cars.

    "this vs a porche...
    and the viper beats it 10/1...

    price: Viper wins
    Speed: Viper wins
    looks: Viper wins"

    Looks- OPINION, price - all but 1 Porsche win in comparison, and speed - lets think here, tuner car vs factory... you wanna go into tuner, look at the Dauer 962 LM, which IS a tuner car, and it began life as a Porsche 962 LM car. Oh look, it holds the quickest 0-60 time of ANY street legal car in the world, and its /4 mile time was approx. 8.5 seconds! All out of a 3.0 flat six. Enough said. I have also seen 2.6 and 3.0 liter imports put muscle cars to shame as far as power. Ive also seen a 745 HP 1.3 liter. Yes, its real, its the twin-rotor RX-7 twin turbo. I love how many muscle car guys hafta use 3x+ the displacement of an import to be competition. I guess some people just cant stand being at the same level. They need to have tremendous advantages to win. Thats like me, a 2nd degree blackbelt Aikido, using a weapon to beat someone who is barehanded, and them without any martial arts training. Doesnt seem fair does it?
    One more thing to address. Handling. "veilside can't handle proprely. " Bad comment. Makes me wonder if this person knows what Veilside even is. Vipers are outhandled by the Porsche GT2 by the way. One example of handling. Many cars have competed for lap times at the Club Circuit track in Hockenheim. The roadcar benchmark is done by a Porsche GT3, at 14.9 seconds. The best time ever, a GT3R, at 7.0 seconds, and also with only 410HP. This says something, doesnt it? Yes, there are cars that outhandle vipers. The 360 Modena and F355 have outhandled vipers. It also is not all about the lateral G's. Try slalom. This is a more intensive test of handling characteristics. Back and forth, over and over. Much more difficult than running a 200ft circle.

    Dont try to compare tuner vs factory, or European, Japanese, or American cars. European supercars are HANDBUILT. This is a sign of incredible, unsurpassed quality. Japanese cars are from a country with heavy restrictions on everything. Cars are LIMITED to 280PS(276HP, along with other restrictions. Old muscle cars were from a time where regulations were almost non-existent, so engines of incredible displacement were widely used, like the Shelby Cobra, and our Viper. People who realize these things are the ones who own the tuner groups. Carrol Shelby had his idea that was a blend of Euro styling and ideas(aluminum body) and American muscle. Other top names: Koenigsegg, Ruf, Hennessey, Lingenfelter, Archer(a personal friend, owner of Archer Racing), and so on, and so on. These are the people who open their minds to many things. This is why I will always be far ahead of anyone who sits and bashes other cars, because they dont understand every aspect of that car. Most of the time, its because they arent advanced in the areas of science and math. Engineering is the key to understanding everything in a car.

    Final note. All the guys that are for the Imports, and against muscle cars, you know damn well you would drive an 800TT if you had the opportunity, and you know you wouldnt mind having one. Im all for European supercars, and I would still take this car. SHEER POWER says it all.
     
  8. Re: This vs Jap cars like...AB-flug Supra & Veilside Supra, ect.

    Kagemusha, possibly the best and most informative as well as unbiased post i have ever seen, thank you for your insight and factual information. You state your opinion and back it up which we shoudl see a lot more of in these forums. I personally do agree with pretty much all that you said, i am a skyline fan, i've never driven one, nor have a driven a viper, but i would kill to have either one. Also, an interesting fact, any car magazine in the US the focus has been 0-60 and quarter mile, in europe you'd be hard pressed to find hte 0-60 times even mentioned in a lot of the magazines, its all about quarter mile and handling, which is much more usefull driving on small twisty European roads rather than the wide highways and freeways of the US.
     
  9. Re: This vs Jap cars like...AB-flug Supra & Veilside Supra, ect.

    "I also would like to comment on the person who said the supra was not street legal due to the sequential transmission. That was a really a good way to make an ass of yourself. A sequential transmission is 100% legal, every state in the US, and everywhere in the world. Look at the Koenigsegg CC - 6-speed sequential transmission. Street legal in the US."

    I would also like to comment on the person who said *I* said the supra was not street legal due to the sequential transmission. I NEVER said that a 6-speed sequential transmission is not street legal, now did I?
    That was a really good way to make an ass of yourself.

    Hey, guess what? Vipers are handbuilt too...

    The S2000 makes MORE hp/l than the McLaren F1 and Ferrari Enzo. Now, are you going to say that the S2000's engine is more impressive. A simple "yes" or "no", thank you.

    Regarding Cobras, which car do you think has more hp/l, the Daytona Cobra Coupe, or the '64 Ferrari 250 GTO? Which car beat the other at Le Mans in '64? Which one went on to win the FIA sports car championship that year?


    davidgil:
    Autocar, eco, and TopGear use 0-60 tests. And the others use 0-100 kmh (0-62). I don't see what you're trying to get at...
    Do you suppose this picture was taken in Europe?
     
  10. Re: This vs Jap cars like...AB-flug Supra & Veilside Supra, ect.

    Not that you would...But you could.

    (Well, not in the S2000; not even if you tried it in 2nd gear.)
     
  11. Re: This vs Jap cars like...AB-flug Supra & Veilside Supra, ect.

    Not that you would...But you could.

    (Well, not with an S2000. Not even in 2nd gear.)
     
  12. Re: This vs Jap cars like...AB-flug Supra & Veilside Supra, ect.

    i would go for the viper no matter what
     
  13. Re: This vs Jap cars like...AB-flug Supra & Veilside Supra, ect.

    now thats the attitude to have!
     
  14. Re: This vs Jap cars like...AB-flug Supra & Veilside Supra, ect.

    the 98 911 GT1 does a 9.2second 1/4 mi...lol, it has 550BHP, the veilside has 1200...lol



    (check out the pics in its section)
     
  15. Re: This vs Jap cars like...AB-flug Supra & Veilside Supra, ect.

    the AB-flug Supra looks heel cool as well!
     
  16. Re: This vs Jap cars like...AB-flug Supra & Veilside Supra, ect.

    okay, when u say it only has 800 HP it is when the boost setting is at the lowest! Anyway, I am not totally on the viper's side, but it is an amazing car, and it deserves respect.
     
  17. Re: This vs Jap cars like...AB-flug Supra & Veilside Supra, ect.
     
  18. Re: This vs Jap cars like...AB-flug Supra & Veilside Supra, ect.

    well said...
    looks like i'm not the only 1 who thinks that the Porches are a rip off...
    but...were talkin' about Supras and shit...ain't we...?
     
  19. Re: This vs Jap cars like...AB-flug Supra & Veilside Supra, ect.

    American iron has its merrits but when you do a fare comparission it just doesn't stack up against jap engineering. While viper fans have a wet dream about the 800TT they'll never own, import racers laugh. You want cheap, go import. my car is total of half the price of a fully set up 800TT and I run 3.2 0-60 and 11.1s on factory wheels and rubber. Thats a godzilla though and its unfair to compare *G*. Actually don't compare any 4WD giant killer to american iron, its not nice. but as for comparing a supra to a viper they are actually both good rear drive cars with the same ass kicking reputation (although guess which one handles best). supras can make 800hp on stock internals, and thats a 3 litre engine taking about 30psi of boost. I've heard of stock supras taking 40psi. viper V10 is an all aluminium engine if you put 40psi through that it would just explode like a bomb. The bores would probably split and burst the casing even, that is if the head doesn't blow off the engine first.
    You need a cast iron factory turbo engine to make big boost HP. I've met tuners who felt that 15psi in there LS1 V8 was high boost, and then it had no end of things breaking.
    (Actually, aluminium actually melts at 660 C a 40psi boosted turbomotor probably has a EGT of around 800 C.... fizzzz)

    Jap engines are just stronger and better engineered, they don't need crazy sizes to make deccent power. And the benefit is you can still drive it to work. If you made a V12 from two banks of supra 6 head & block you'd have a six litre engine that would make bugatti veyron look like a morris 1100.

    I wont even mention mazda rotarys, some of those will run 9 seconds on a street driven engine, and 7 second ETs on a tuned but still all factory parts engine.

     
  20. Re: This vs Jap cars like...AB-flug Supra & Veilside Supra, ect.

    So, basically it comes down to that tuned up american cars get most of thier power from the actual engine, while tuned up jap cars get most of thier power from a turbo.
     
  21. Re: This vs Jap cars like...AB-flug Supra & Veilside Supra, ect.

    Why dont they try to put a Enzo against this. Or maybe a Gembella Gt2
     
  22. Re: This vs Jap cars like...AB-flug Supra & Veilside Supra, ect.

    i think the Viper is tuned and designed with some help from Lamborghini and Mercedes. correct me if im wrong here.
     
  23. Re: This vs Jap cars like...AB-flug Supra & Veilside Supra, ect.

    "Tuned by Lamborghini"...LOL.

    Yes, Lamborghini had some input in the engine. They helped transfer the design from Dodge's steel-blocked Ram V8 "frankenstein" engine to an alloy one. They met Dodge's requirements for power, but not its requirements for durability. In the end, the Viper team had to virtually re-do the entire engine. And GenII engines have head designs derived from the GTS-R racer.

    Think about it: if you think Lambo is entirely responsible for the engine, you have to ask yourself: only 50 hp/l?

    BTW, Lambo had ZERO input on any other aspect of the Viper.
     
  24. Re: This vs Jap cars like...AB-flug Supra & Veilside Supra, ect.

    Lambo wouldn't know hao to tune a good car.
     
  25. Re: This vs Jap cars like...AB-flug Supra & Veilside Supra, ect.

    Well, they could. They were in Formula One for awhile, remember. Could they do it as reliably and as cheaply as what Dodge has done on the Viper? The answer from the original Viper project seems to be a resounding "NO".
     

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