Discussion in 'Technical' started by Unregistered, Feb 25, 2008.

  1. more cost effective than buying another set of (street) rims and cheap tires that will last 10 times longer?

    and I find it really, really scary that you need R comp levels of performance on the street.
  2. Should GT3 owners buy a separate set of tires for street use instead of using the PSCs?
  3. Most GT3 owners dont daily drive their cars. They almost always have another car for rainy days and such. Driving on the street and happening to have R comps is way different than putting on R comps to drive on the street.

    and of the 2 people I know with 997 GT3s, both have a set of street tires, then a set of hoosiers. Neither put on a second set of PSCs.
  4. #29 disord3r, Feb 28, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    I just mention KDWS beacuse they're my OEM, they do a decent job, and are usually a hair cheaper than KDW2 (if a bit less sexy-looking).
  5. "The disadvantages are: Road noise, huge wear difference (pilot sports will last 40k, PSC's last like 10 or fewer), theyre more expensive, and ride harder.

    And they fully comply with all regulations, so why should they be deemed "track only"

    You would have to be being a serious idiot to kill yourself on PSCs on the street. What about all the morons that smash their GT2s because they stomped on the accelerator too hard, lost the back end, countersteered, then lifted the throttle, spinning them the other way? Both ways youre still completely at fault for not knowing your car and its limitations.

    hell, if they really wanted to, they could just put hoosiers on from the factory.

    no clue why using fully DOT legal tires should make a car non-DOT legal. Where would the dividing line be between not enough wet weather resistence begin?

    and also: A car like that has WAY more grip in the wet than something like a suburban on normal tires. It just happens to be much more capable also."
  6. Toyo R compound are not that soft. I know of quite a few people that use them on the street. You really can not put them in the same league as a Hoosier or a Kumho 710. Durability will depend on your driving habits. I used to manage about 18,000 miles on a mustang with R comps with 2.5 deg of camber.
  7. BTW, I looked into the RT-615, RE-01R and Direzza Sport Z1. They don't come in the size I want, 225/45-15.
  8. What do you think about painting the letters white?
  9. #34 K-Dero, Feb 28, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    I'm generally happy with my Falken FK452s as far as street tires go, especially for the price (would be $532 for you from discount tire). I've read good reviews for the KDW2 as far as price goes as well. Toyo T1R is good for the price, but the sidewalls are somewhat soft and leaves some to be desired when cornering. Avoid the Nitto NT555 altogether. All of this is what I gathered when I was searching for tires and reading reviews, recommendations and such. Also, read this:

    Too bad you don't like the stock Bridgestones as I have a set with just "break in" miles just sitting around collecting dust.
  10. I said they shouldnt be banned on the street. I said PSCs are not unsafe on the street. It doesnt change the fact that I think buying some for 99% street use is pretty retarded considering theyre far more expensive than tires that will last 4 times longer and provide identical grip capabilities on the street (you would be a moron to need more than what I pilot sport could give on the street in that specific example)

    im sorry you fail to see the difference between being able to drive a car on stock tires on the street and going out and actively purchasing R comps to drive on the street with, because normal tires just dont give enough grip. The first means you happen to have track tires on the car from the factory, the second means you drive way past what anyone ever should on the street.
  11. Who said they're for 99% street use?

    They aren't far more expensive. They aren't even a little more expensive.

    Regular tires will last longer, but like I already said, it's a cost effective way to improve performance compared to buying a more expensive car.

    You could say that I don't need the grip of Pilot Sports almost as easily as you can say that I don't need the grip of R888s. Driving at 10 tenths is still 10 tenths regardless of what tires you're using. Does anyone really need the performance of Pilot Sports? Wouldn't someone be just as much a moron to need the grip of Pilot Sports on the street? You could make the same arguement about cars and their handling. Why buy a 911? Do you have to be a moron to want that much grip for street use? Why does Porsche put such wide rubber on the 911? Wouldn't it be cheaper to use narrower tires? Wouldn't it be better in the rain with narrower tires? You don't have to drive at 10 tenths to benefit from the extra grip. I can drive at 8 tenths and still go as fast as I could with Pilot Sports driving at 9 tenths. BTW, I don't go past 5 tenths unless I can see what's around the bend, but even then, the extra grip helps. Sometimes I actually do drive at 10 tenths on the street, but I'm very careful about when and where I do it. I have an excellent driving record. I get a good driver discount from my insurance company. I haven't filed a claim since before I bought my MR2 in 1993 and I get a ticket about once every 5 years.

    The vast majority of guys in my car club only use Rs for competition, but there are a handful of us who use them on the street. If the other guys think we're morons, they haven't said anything. I've noticed that it's mainly older guys who use Rs on the street. We're not a bunch of teenage yahoos. If you go to the Noble Forums you'll see that a lot of guys rack up a lot of miles on their Nobles with Rs. It's a matter of personal choice. We drive responsibly and we enjoy the extra grip. We don't call people morons for not using Rs. That would be rude.
  12. whatever floats your boat. Seems like a mega waste of cash to me though.

    and comparing dires designed for the street and R comps is a HUGE difference than the comparisons you made. Manufacturers make cars handle that well so people have the opportunity to use them on closed circuits, not for the street.
  13. Arent the Rs more slippery unless they're warmed up?
  14. not rry. They do gain way way more grip when warm though. Theyre not like hoosiers are when theyre cold.
  15. Many people would say that any sports car is a mega waste of cash. An even greater # would say that PS2s are a waste of cash. I know what floats my boat and I know that Rs are a very cost effective way to improve performance.

    According to Toyo, R888s are designed for the street. At least that's what they were saying a couple years ago when they were first unveiled. Maybe their lawyers got them to change their tune. I haven't checked lately. It's safe to say that some Rs definitely aren't designed just for track use. There must be some reason that the ZZR, CR6ZZ, A048, PSC, PZC, R888, NT01, Z211, RE55S, RE540S, Ecsta V700, V70 Victoracer, D01J and DZ02G have more grooves than tires like the R6. Maybe they're for a slightly wet track but then there are tires like the R888 and A048 which also have harder compounds to withstand the many heat cycles you get from street use.

    I wasn't aware that manufacturers make cars handle that well so people have the opportunity to use them on closed circuits. I guess that's why a 330i out handles a Camry, because the owner might use it on a track. That must be why Miatas handle well too, to satisfy the 1/2% of Miata owners who track their cars.
  16. just dont get the exclaims, or T1Rs. Personally i'd probably go with the BFGs, or maybe the yokohama S drive, they came out just a few months ago and are pretty nice for the price.
  17. reasoning?
  18. I went with BFG KDWII, I'm happy with the choice I made, they came out to be 699.xx with the taxes and everything. The tire is pretty sticky, a bit noisy, though, but I dont mind. They're also awesome in the rain. I've tried the exclaims on a 02 Maxima SE and on a 02 TL Type S, and I wasnt impressed at all, maybe it feels fine in a 4WD car(phano), but it those cars it didnt.
  19. #44 gerbel01, Mar 4, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Ive worked part time at discount tire since my senior year in high school and and currently a senior in college. Ive seen everything go through there and know what i like and what i dont.

    The generals are a pretty cheap tire, They seem to wear ok but their sidewalls arn't terribly stiff. The BFG G force series are all great tires, however can be expensive especially in certain tires. They roll very smooth and have great grip and life. The only problem i see with them at all are the newer KDWs, with certain cars and bad alignments they can get choppy. The Yokohamas' quality is right up there with the G forces, however cut the price of the generals and the BFG's right down the center. I put a set on a friend's SLK (would have put on Pilot Sports, but was turning in the lease in a few months), and he loved them.

    The regular high performance Toyos i find to be low quality, especially for the price. in fact I'd probabaly put on an Exclaim UHP on my car before i were to put a T1R on. Nittos are also cheap and wear out super quickly. Its rare that Goodyears go on anything but Corvettes, and I have no love for Kelly/Goodyear/Dunlop in general and would not suggest them to anyone, although their high end eagles are decent tires.

    You could always Put on some Pirelli P zero Neros as well, those would also be a good tire pick for the price, generally being a little under G force prices.

    Oh, and as a sidenote, discount tire/america's tire will match prices, even those found online. Installation will be cheaper, and you have free rotations, rebalances, etc. for the life of the tires.
  20. i sell exclaims to people who are upsizing rims and want to keep it as cheap as possible, performance cars get something decent.
  21. #46 Unregistered, Mar 4, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    What do you mean by choppy? Is it anything specific? I havent noticed anything 'wierd' on my car, except the fact that they're not the quietest tire on the market.
  22. #47 gerbel01, Mar 4, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    The KDW NT's (teardrop shape tread) can sometimes wear funny the inside edge of the tires. Instead of the tire wearing down evenly they will feather. the best thing i can find about this online would be here:

    this is usually caused from alignment, although depending on a car's suspension setup from the factory it can happen on a tire that is prone to it. it isnt a defect in the tire or design, just the tread pattern can make it more susceptible. Usually this would be on the non-drive tires, fronts on a rwd car and rears on a fwd vehicle. Timely rotations can keep these problems to a minimum, although staggered fitment vehicles dont always have that luxury.

    EDIT: cars commonly prone to this are Focuses and the G35/350z. also, 80s-90s ford full size trucks can see it as well. its not a defect or a bad design in either the vehicle or the tire, its mainly in how the suspension is setup on the vehicle and tread design.
  23. #48 gerbel01, Mar 4, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    best info i could find:

    "Some low profile performance tires have a tendency to develop what�s called a "heel and toe" wear pattern if they are not rotated every 5,000 to 8,000 miles. This is caused by tread flex and the belt design of the tires. If tires with this kind of wear tendency are not rotated, the tread may develop a washboard wear pattern that causes annoying vibrations and/or noise at speeds above about 40 mph. Once the wear pattern is established, it may be too late to reverse it by rotating the tires. Replacing the tires (and switching to a brand or design that is less "quirky") may be the only way to cure this kind of wear problem."
  24. He cant rotate his tires. And 699OTD is an awesome price for that size and quality of tire
  25. #50 Unregistered, Mar 5, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    So should I be okay with an alignment done? I understand there's still probably a big chance of something going wrong but just to be safe(er).

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