Topgear settles Supercar Debate

Discussion in 'Car Comparisons' started by udip21, Nov 4, 2004.

  1. #1 udip21, Nov 4, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Topgear Settles Supercar Debate!

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    Topgear has finally settled the debate as to which car is fastest around a racing track. The latest power lap time has revealed that the Ferrari Enzo has toppled the Porsche Carrera GT by an comfortable 0.8 secs (for those that believe that is small, i am sorry but you are rustic about racing). At Nardo, in a test conducted by Auto Motor and Sport, the Enzo comfortably beat the Carrera and the SLR as it went upto 355 kmph (221.8 mph). The Carrera and SLR both managed only 334 kmph (208.75 mph). And unlike many other claims, the Enzo was the most stable at top speed.
    That, i believe, convincingly settles the arguments related to track. The interesting thing is, if the Enzo can beat others around the twisty Topgear track; it will be invincible around tracks like Fiorano or Monza.
    Now, i can be comfortable while placing my judgements and i have not doubt that the Enzo is a far superior car.
    Interested people may visit the following links -
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/powerlaps/
    http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/d/61251#tech_data
     
  2. thats nice.
     
  3. On another automotive media's "shootout" if you will, Auto und Motor Sport tested the SLR, Enzo and CGT on the same day and concluded differently for their track time result on a different track.....in which the CGT came out on top....

    So debate is still alive and well thank you very much....
     
  4. Just wait til sport auto takes the Enzo to the Nurburgring and Hockenheim short track!
     
  5. #5 ajzahn, Nov 4, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Thnaks for the link to the ams article.

    Really interesting, the Enzo is faster than the CGT at Nardo but in the same article they are saying that at the Autodromo del Levante, a 1.6 kms handling track close to Bari the CGT was 1.12 secs. faster than the
    Enzo.

    So, the Enzo seems to be fastet than the cGT when it comes to acceleration and top speed but not when it comes to handling.

    Just as I said before, just let the sport auto mamagzine take the Enzo the Nurburgring and Hockenheim to confirm whether it is fatser than the CGT or not!
     
  6. They need to be tested on the same day and by the same driver. Even then, The Enzo might win one day and the CGT could win on another day. I think that they're very close. does it really matter which one is faster when they're this close. If any of us owned either of them, we'd get trounced by a pro driver anyway.
     
  7. Yes, i agree but then again, it did not post any laptimes for it. Add to that, the magazine has been widely critisized for being anti-italian. if we are to go by facts, we still have to seetle with Topgear for the time being.
     
  8. One of the things that seems to confuse us is why the Zonda is over 4 secs slower than the Enzo over the Topgear track given the fact that it is lighter and has more torque. Of course, it has a bigger engine but unfortunatrly, it has been poorly engineered (77 bhp/lit) and the only thing saving its grace is its noise. The Enzo on the other hand has the most efficient engine of the lot (110 bhp/ltr). On the straights , the Zonda would be better only at the #%$-end of the speed spectrum; somwwhere around 320 kmph.


    One thing that many manufacturers manipulate to dupe the commoners is acceleration times. the Ford GT can do 0-60 times almost as well as the Enzo but then again, it is slower around a track. The part used here is the gear ratios, which suit it for acceleration.
    This means that while they may be close to reaching 100 kmph, the Ford GT will take ages to reach 300 kmph and even if it ddoes, it will struggle even more to reach its top speed of 312 kmph, which is better than the SLR or the Carrera GT. eople generally pay attention to only accelration times and that is where they get tricked. In that context, the Enzo and Carrera are genuine and they pack performance akin to racing cars, no cheating or deceiving.


    And speaking about the Zonda, its handling properties are inferior to the Enzo's and it lacks the paddle-shifter too. Lighter cars have better accelerations and not necessarily better handling. Handling depends on a lot of factors which the Enzo boasts of having the best. Cars are much easier on straights then corners and that is where driver involvement comes into play. The driver cannot do much if the car does not allow it to. Enzo assists the driver with its ASR and Race settings, the Zonda has none of which.


    Hockenheim , i believe, will actually favour the Enzo. The enzo likes fast straights and that in turn will actually demolish anyone else. Also, i wouldnt be surprised if the Koenigsegg or the Zonda will actually topple the CArrera or the SLR around Hockenheim. The straights will give them an advantage, even over the Enzo. While the Enzo might crawl all the way up in the corners, there is a queston mark whether the Carrera and the SLR might be able to retain their podium steps there.

    Old Nurburgring will be a closer call and i wish the best car to win.
     
  9. #9 ajzahn, Nov 5, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Just take a look at >>> http://speed.supercars.net/PitLane?viewThread=y&gID=3&fID=0&tID=10306

    1:08.6 --- Porsche Carrera GT
    ...
    1:11.8 --- Pagani Zonda C12S 7.3
    ...
    1:13.5 --- Mercedes-Benz McLaren SLR

    The CGT is aboput 3 secs faster than the Zonda which is only 1.7 secs faster that the Mercedes McLaren SLR at the 2.638 kms long track. So I doubt that the Zonda will be as competitive as the Enzo at any track.
     
  10. "Of course, it has a bigger engine but unfortunatrly, it has been poorly engineered (77 bhp/lit) and the only thing saving its grace is its noise. The Enzo on the other hand has the most efficient engine of the lot (110 bhp/ltr)."

    Poorly engineered? What? They made the engine block out of plastic? Shut up hp/l means sweet #$%# all, it should only be used for determining racing classes if wanted.
     
  11. yes , poorly engineered or else, how do u explain the poor output of such a mighty engine dosplacement? and engineering does not incluse consturction materials here
     
  12. Thank You all for the opinions and facts you are providing me with
     
  13. Referring to the context, another very important thing has to be borne in mind.
    The Cars here are road cars and not Racing ones. That explains why the Enzo betters in Topgear and the Carrera excels in Auto Motor and Sport (as someone claims it to be). The various circuits suit the respective car and hence they come out the best. As i was saying, the Koenigsegg CC and the Zonda will topple the Carrera and SLR around Hockenheim if they are given the chance. Racing cars are setup differently every race, every circuit.
    Given a chance like that, the Enzo and Carrera GT might be crawled upon by the others and they might not seem too dominant anymore. These cars are not setup for the particular circuit and so the fluctuation occurs.

    If a comparison has to made of ride, comfort and drivability; real life situations have to be enertained. While the comfort mode in Enzo allows it to behave like a Grand Tourer in city and highway conditions, the SLR is too stiff and the Carrera GT is actually undrivable around town scenarios owing to its difficult clutch control and sudden burst of acceleration. The Koenigsegg is worse still with its ultra-heavy clutch, steering and gearbox. The Zonda and Murcielago are superior in real life conditions than the German counterparts.

    As i refer more and more to the topic, the only thing that i can say i have realised is that the Enzo is simply too good for the others. Its better on the road and can be actually used as an everyday car. Frankly, i can find nothing to critise it.

    I started this forum keeping the Enzo as favourite and as yet, my belief has only been reinforced; thanks to all of you.
     
  14. Referring to the context, another very important thing has to be borne in mind.
    The Cars here are road cars and not Racing ones. That explains why the Enzo betters in Topgear and the Carrera excels in Auto Motor and Sport (as someone claims it to be). The various circuits suit the respective car and hence they come out the best. As i was saying, the Koenigsegg CC and the Zonda will topple the Carrera and SLR around Hockenheim if they are given the chance. Racing cars are setup differently every race, every circuit.
    Given a chance like that, the Enzo and Carrera GT might be crawled upon by the others and they might not seem too dominant anymore. These cars are not setup for the particular circuit and so the fluctuation occurs.

    If a comparison has to made of ride, comfort and drivability; real life situations have to be enertained. While the comfort mode in Enzo allows it to behave like a Grand Tourer in city and highway conditions, the SLR is too stiff and the Carrera GT is actually undrivable around town scenarios owing to its difficult clutch control and sudden burst of acceleration. The Koenigsegg is worse still with its ultra-heavy clutch, steering and gearbox. The Zonda and Murcielago are superior in real life conditions than the German counterparts.

    As i refer more and more to the topic, the only thing that i can say i have realised is that the Enzo is simply too good for the others. Its better on the road and can be actually used as an everyday car. Frankly, i can find nothing to critise it.

    I started this forum keeping the Enzo as favourite and as yet, my belief has only been reinforced; thanks to all of you.
     
  15. 'As i was saying, the Koenigsegg CC and the Zonda will topple the Carrera and SLR around Hockenheim if they are given the chance. Racing cars are setup differently every race, every circuit.'

    Ajzahn already posted Hockenheim times, and the Zonda is slower than the CGT. I really doubt that the Murcielago or the Zonda could topple the CGT or Enzo around any track.

    The Carrera GT is not undrivable around town, in fact it is better suited to everyday driving than the Enzo. The clutch just takes some gettting used to, and a manual gearbox is better suited to town driving than a paddle shifter.
     
  16. Hp/liter means nothing, unless displacement is being taxed. In that case, we would need to look at the prices of the cars too.
     
  17. How do u determine the efficiency of an engine if u dont take into account bhp/ltr?
     
  18. How about gas mileage? Engine weight? power delivery? reliability? driveability?
     
  19. The Enzo and the CGT are just about even, maybe the Enzo just a bit better performer.
    The SLR has somewhat "comprimised" performance. The new Zonda C12-S Monza is a better match.
     
  20. No one test can ever settle anything. Make up your own mind.

    Since most of us (damn you Andrew) will never drive an Enzo or CGT, we can live vicariously through these articles. But as has been shown, one mag might get better times on one day, another completely different results on another day.
     
  21. Looks like there's quite a debate still going here.
     
  22. #22 udip21, Nov 7, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
  23. LOL <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/pitlane/emoticons/smile.gif"></A>
     
  24. not being a huge fanboy or anything but i can see the Enzo beating the CGT and the SLR
     
  25. a lot of people do comparisons, but when teh stig does it, I'll put more weigh behind that. Teh only car that could possibly beat the enzo (and probaly would) would be the Maserati MC12. And thats bearly a road car, its a merely an attempt to circumnavigate the FIA's homologation rule's for FIA GT. But in that regard, its no different with what Ferrari did with the 250 GTO, and its considered the greatest Ferrari road car ever.

    As for the Zonda's time, there is something a bit fishy about that. When it did it, it was far, far, far faster than the Lambo Murcielago (by like 6 seconds!), and it was tested on the same day, by the stig.

    Then, they retested the lambo latter, and it posed a time faster than the zonda, by a good margin, wich had beaten it before by a massive amount. So i'm pretty sure that the track was eitehr greasy, damp, or something that day. If they retest the zonda, it may well be several SECONDS (not tenths, seconds!) faster than its previous time.

    And even just doing the testing, Clarkson said the Enzo was just far and a way faster than anything else, and was the absolute new benchmark.

    But that the F40 was still the best to drive. A twin turbo V8 go-kart!
     

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