whats better, NASCAR or V8 Supercars???????

Discussion in '2004 Pontiac GTO' started by Aych Es Vee, Aug 16, 2002.

  1. Re: whats better, NASCAR or V8 Supercars???????

    hehe thats right, doesnt really matter how heavy it is.
    besides, he obviously hasnt seen bathurst before. 1000km around one of the most difficult tracks in the world. The curcuit winds up and down mount panorama (yes a mountain) and the weather conditions from year to year, ranging from extreme rain, cold and almost snow right though to very hot conditions
     
  2. Re: whats better, NASCAR or V8 Supercars???????

    nascar in a 1 word answer equals SH1T
     
  3. Re: whats better, NASCAR or V8 Supercars???????

    supecars
     
  4. #129 carerra gt, Oct 4, 2003
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Re: whats better, NASCAR or V8 Supercars???????

    Just to clear things up ALL v8 supercars are restricted to a top speed of around 300 kph and have an acceleration of 0-100kph (60mph) in 4.0 seconds and with hp over the 600 mark

    just look at the specs here on the commodores and the falcons
    http://www.v8supercar.com.au/technical/default.htm

    this page will tell u the sort of specs our aussie cars have.

    they are limited to how fast they can go their hp. if there were no restrictions im sure we could get well over 1000hp

    anyway like alot of people have said the v8 supercars can shit on any car u yanks care to put it up against
     
  5. Re: whats better, NASCAR or V8 Supercars???????

    I think a C5-R would hold its own, considering its one of the best racecars in the wolrd right now........
     
  6. Re: whats better, NASCAR or V8 Supercars???????

    So many things to say, so little time...

    "hehe thats right, doesnt really matter how heavy it is."

    How #$%#ing dumb are you? Do you know anything about physics? You V8supercars have more powerful steering pumps than a cup car anyday. Now think of it this way. Watkins Glen Raceway in NY. Ryan Newman was racing in only his 2nd road race ever(not just his 2nd cup race, his second road race ever). He was running in the top 5 all day. He ended up in 2nd. He didnt have power steering for 3/4 of the race. Now a 3400 pound car is going to turn a hell of a lot less than a car that is 2000 some odd pounds with tires twice as wide.

    Secondly, cup cars go 200 mph on 420 hp. That is due to a restrictor plate. Mathematics were used to calculate a tops speed of 230 mph at talladega for the pole. Now, put them in the draft get about 10 more mph.

    Thirdly, Nascar isn't safe? Drivers may have died recently, but it is because they are trying to pull off the impossible driving ridiculously fast on a track made for lower speeds. Any open wheel car dissipates energy. Now how exactly can you get a stock car to dissipate half as much energy as those. V8SC are on road courses. They are driving slow (under 120 mph) 90% of the race. There are a lot of cup tracks that have you going 160 mph plus through a turn.

    Fourthly, V8SC are allowed a lot more technical advancements than cup cars. V8SC have traction control right? Cup cars dont. Cup cars have carbs, which injure possible horsepower. Cup cars make well over 700 hp, and compare that with an f1 car. F1 cars are so ridiculously tuned that its not funny. F1 cars have 800 hp. When comparing the 2, i'd say a cup motor holds its own.

    Don't give me this v8SC can have a faster top speed, cause they can't.

    I do love v8sc. I love nascar. But never will i allow anyone say anything bad of Nascar, just cause you guys don't understand it.
     

  7. Re: whats better, NASCAR or V8 Supercars???????


    Quote from Dr Nick Riviera:

    "How #$%#ing dumb are you? Do you know anything about physics? You V8supercars have more powerful steering pumps than a cup car anyday. Now think of it this way. Watkins Glen Raceway in NY. Ryan Newman was racing in only his 2nd road race ever(not just his 2nd cup race, his second road race ever). He was running in the top 5 all day. He ended up in 2nd. He didnt have power steering for 3/4 of the race. Now a 3400 pound car is going to turn a hell of a lot less than a car that is 2000 some odd pounds with tires twice as wide."

    So?

    "Any open wheel car dissipates energy. Now how exactly can you get a stock car to dissipate half as much energy as those."

    Your point exactly?

    "Cup cars make well over 700 hp, and compare that with an f1 car. F1 cars are so ridiculously tuned that its not funny. F1 cars have 800 hp. When comparing the 2, i'd say a cup motor holds its own."

    Think 4 litre. Match the capacity dumbass and there's no holding anyone's own.

    "V8SC have traction control right?"

    Wrong

    "Secondly, cup cars go 200 mph on 420 hp. That is due to a restrictor plate. Mathematics were used to calculate a tops speed of 230 mph at talladega for the pole. Now, put them in the draft get about 10 more mph."

    ????????

    Know what? Nothing you wrote makes much sense. If you're trying to put a point across (I don't know quite what), try to put it eloquently. And, try to get the information right.

    OK. Bye.
     
  8. Re: whats better, NASCAR or V8 Supercars???????

    "V8SC have traction control right?" no they dont. they have abs but that is the only thing that can assist the drivers and tyres are always locking up still with such powerful brakes.

    "Don't give me this v8SC can have a faster top speed, cause they can't." but they can. the gopverning body says the gear ratios for eachg curcuit but if you gave them taller ratios the top speed would be more

    "Drivers may have died recently, but it is because they are trying to pull off the impossible driving ridiculously fast on a track made for lower speeds." without being disrespectful, isnt that what racing is about? getting around the track as fast as possible. v8supercars have had some huge accidents in the last few years but not 1 serious injury
     
  9. Re: whats better, NASCAR or V8 Supercars???????

    The fact that you dont understand him does not make his points invalid.

    1) By haviong less weight, you have a better track car. Someone said that weight does not matter. It does. Thats why race teams spend hundreds of thousands of composite matirials to get the strenth of steel without the weight.

    2)By dissapaiting energy, he means slowing down and energy going into a turn. He asked about physics and you obviously dont know much about it. Let me put it this way: Kinetic energy is basicly how much force your car has moving forward. The more KE, the harder to turn or slow down. Not good in a race car. KE=1/2MV^2. So the more mass you We want lots of velocity without the mass. Weight matters. thats why 150hp motorcycles can run 12s easaly, and why Elises and Caterhams can embarass Astons and Ferraris on the track.

    3)HP/L is BS. Maybe if in some hypothetical land they ran every car with the same displacement, it would matter, but it does not here. The fact is that NASCAR cars will accelerate about as well as V8SC. They have just as much power and perhaps less weight.

    4) He is showing how cup cars are quite capable of acheiving high topspeeds, especially in a drafting situation. Its about aerodynamics.

    The fact that he is wrong on a few details (maybe) does not change the fact that he knows his stuff. He is right. His point is that NASCAR is an impressive sport that ignorant fools should not criticize because they know nothing about it. The fact that you dont understand physics or his arguments does not make them invalid.
     
  10. Re: whats better, NASCAR or V8 Supercars???????

    I love all you morons who's sum total argument against NASCAR is that its centered on rednecks. Thats agood one. I'm a marketing major, so let me fill you in: NASCAR fans are one of the most sought after markets. They have a higher useage of the internet and cell phones etc than most other groups. As a whole, NASCAR fans have a lot of disposable income. 40% of NASCAR fans are women, which is a lot for motorsport.
    In short, its not a bunch of beer drinking fat guys in overalls. and you can just save any reply that ammounts to "I just know that its all rednecks". Facts are useful here folks.

    As for the cars, well, V8SC probably could win in a track contest. Their teams are simply more expirienced in that. The cars are purpose built for that. NASCARS will likely dominate the superspeedway venues. For the same reasons. But the drivers abilities are very competitive. Jeff Gordon is one of the better drivers in the world. Many NASCAR drivers also race in other classes of cars. It takes some serious skill and concentration to do that kind of driving. And it takes some real skill to also turn out a powerplant that revs beyond 9000 rpm and creates north of 700hp, all with a bucket of restrictions.

    Basicly, both are quite valid forms of motorsport.
     
  11. Re: whats better, NASCAR or V8 Supercars???????

    1), 2),4) thats all very well but what does the same applies for v8supercars

    3) i agree, hp/l doesnt matter but the figures are there, v8supercars are over 2 seconds quicker to 60mph which is a lot
     
  12. Re: whats better, NASCAR or V8 Supercars???????

    Exactly. He is saying that both have their merit. Which cars will be quicker from 130-180?<A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/cboardhtml/emoticons/smile.gif"></A>
     
  13. Re: whats better, NASCAR or V8 Supercars???????

    Thank you sparetire. You illustrated my points much mroe effectively than me, I should have thought to actually use my physics knowledge. If you look at my posts, all of them, I talk about how I love both types. I can't stand when people talk badly about Winston Cup Cars. My whole safety perspective is this. In an open wheel car, the car breaks apart and dissiaptes a lot of the energy. In Cup cars, they dont fall apart on impact, dissipating less energy, so the the energy is then tranferred to the driver's body and not the car. V8 supercars too don't fall apart. The difference is that V8 Supercars run on road courses. And with that, they are always 90% closer to the wall before they start crashing, and they are most of the time at lower speeds (seeing as they are making left and right turns all over the place). V8 supercars in many cases also have run off areas, along with "kitty litter" to slow them down before impact. Now take Nascar drivers. Jerry Nadeau this year recorded a crash at 160g's, and for those of you who don't understand the the severity of this, here's some stuff to think of:
    A. A 150 pound man would have the feeling of weighing
    24,000 pounds.
    B. Astronauts only have 3-5 g's of force
    C. Most people pass out at 7 g's and up
    D. Jerry Nadeau Lived


    I watch V8 Supercars. I like it. I watch Nascar. I like it. I watch DTM, I like it. Now which of those three are the best to compare? DTM and V8 Supercars. But I have one thought for you guys to contemplate. Now which country won the Michelin Race of Champions? I believe it was America right? And with 2 Winston Cup Drivers on the team(Jeff Gordon and Jimmie Johnson). Both of them had to do different jobs than they are used to, and were still able to win.
     
  14. Re: whats better, NASCAR or V8 Supercars???????

    if you love cars or racing..does it even matter..give me a ticket to either event and i'm there



    keep the earth clean it's not uranius
     

  15. Re: whats better, NASCAR or V8 Supercars???????


    "3)HP/L is BS. Maybe if in some hypothetical land they ran every car with the same displacement, it would matter, but it does not here. The fact is that NASCAR cars will accelerate about as well as V8SC. They have just as much power and perhaps less weight."

    Duh. How dumb is that statement?

    Hypothetical land my arse.

    Everyone knows that the lighter the car (and therefore also it's components) the better a racecar it makes, so OBVIOUSLY a big old hunk of iron block with 6 odd litres capacity making 700 HP DOES NOT hold it's own in any way, shape or form with an F1 engine making 930 HP out of a tiny 3 litres made from alloy and titanium components.

    Maybe it does in some kind of hypothetical land where the rules of physics don't apply.......lol
     
  16. Re: whats better, NASCAR or V8 Supercars???????

    Man sum people don't know what the hell V8 supercars are and it is not australian mucle seeing that ford is made in americia. It is Holden vs ford and Rick kelly and greg murphy won bathurst 1000 a week ago GO SONNY
     
  17. Re: whats better, NASCAR or V8 Supercars???????

    nascar, as much as i hate it, would be better...talking tube frame wrapped in aluminum, racing gearbox, 700hp or so...

    by v8 supercar, im thinking like a saleen s7..still 'ONLY'550 hp.. but id take a supercar over a nascar anyday..
     
  18. Re: whats better, NASCAR or V8 Supercars???????

    that information is from the official website saying 0-100km/h in 4.0 seconds.
    and if the v8 supercars could only do 0-100 in 5.1 then they are barely faster than the 382 hp HSV GTO which is hard to believe considering the v8sc has an extra 250 or so hp
     
  19. #144 HsvRule, Oct 18, 2003
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Re: whats better, NASCAR or V8 Supercars???????

    and jsut what exactly are v8supercars then? exactly as you described "talking tube frame wrapped in aluminum, racing gearbox, 700hp or so..."
    the cars we're reffering to are aussie v8supercars, its a racing series.
    try here http://speed.supercars.net/Board?viewThread=y&fID=8&tID=83362 for an idea of what they are
     
  20. Re: whats better, NASCAR or V8 Supercars???????

    "These F#$%^ng cars just keep going round and f#$%ing round it is so F&^%ing boring I think Im going insane"
    This is the effect of a NASCAR race, admittedly their is skill but their is skill in all forms of racing, I would like to see a NASCAR driver come up over skyline at Bathurst at 190km/h+ then hit the brakes back to 80km/h down a 50 degree dropping left hand corner and all this being within 2 inches of the car in front. If thats not skill then what is!

    I would also like to point out that australia has a NASCAR series, but being true racing fans we can see the best of both kinds, unlike the people from seppo land who can see past their severly shrunken cocks to recognise and respect an elite for of racing such as V8 Supercars.


     
  21. Re: whats better, NASCAR or V8 Supercars???????

    You wonder why world-wide frustration with the USA is mounting? It's not because Americans are all idiots (I spent a few months in Texas of all places and found that as with everywhere they are the minority), it is simply because they/YOU can't think outside your own national borders.
    The American Baseball Champions earn this title by winning the WORLD SERIES - HOW MANY COUNTRIES ARE INCLUDED IN THIS WORLD???
    The Fords used in V8 Supercars are Australian built Falcons - DID YOU KNOW MOST OF THE WORLD'S FORDS ARE BUILT IN BELGIUM? MAKES YOU PROUD TO BE AMERICAN DOESN'T IT?
    It must be said that the nascar market IS NOT MADE UP OF REDNECKS AND HICKS ONLY - but you must remember that they may be one of the largest markets IN THE USA but they are just small fish in this global
    I don't understand how you can take a front-drive v6 - turn it into a tube-frame and shell coffin, strap in a v8, make it rear-drive, and then call it a anything but a custom vehicle competition?
    The problem with this discussion is that we can't find a compromise, so I propose this:
    NASCAR is cool in that they achieve extreme power output with (relatively) large capacity engines and old technology (carbs etc.). They are able to travel to 'extreme speeds' (sorry but I like using that line) within a coupl o' laps of starting but would strugle with such 'pesky' issues as downforce (and subsequently traction for your 1/4 & 0-60 mile times), turning, and driver safety (5 deaths in 3 years - better get an account with the florist). NASCAR is, however, extremely popular in the American Market.
    v8 Supercars are extremely good at doing what is popular the world over - racing in circumstances that are comparable to real world driving (unless you count a round-a-bout). They use technology comparable to that found in regular road-going cars (with some important exceptions) to create a format that truely drives sales.

    This brings me to my last point - how does NASCAR help car sales for your US/German manufacturers? If you are impressed with the Ford V8SC then you will buy an XR8 - if u like the Holdens buy an SS Commonwh*re but if you want to take a piece of the NASCAR action home with you - you're stuck with a lowly front-drive V6.
    AND THAT'S GOTTA HURT!!!
     
  22. Re: whats better, NASCAR or V8 Supercars???????

    LOL. And since when was displacement an accurate nmeasure of weight? A small block chevy is lighter and more compact than BMW 5L V8s. and many smaller engines.

    Hp/L is BS. Power to weight matters, and HP/L is a terrible way to approximate it. V10 Vipers weight about the same as I-6 M3s. And yet they have a shade under 3 times the displacement.

    If you had read any of my previous posts, you would see that I already covered what you just said, and made it more applicable and usefull too.

    Thats why a stock 5.7L "old hunk of iron" (which is a completely misinformed statement when discussing modern Chevy Ls series motors) will beat an S2000 around a track.
     
  23. Re: whats better, NASCAR or V8 Supercars???????

    ""These F#$%^ng cars just keep going round and f#$%ing round it is so F&^%ing boring I think Im going insane"
    This is the effect of a NASCAR race, admittedly their is skill but their is skill in all forms of racing, I would like to see a NASCAR driver come up over skyline at Bathurst at 190km/h+ then hit the brakes back to 80km/h down a 50 degree dropping left hand corner and all this being within 2 inches of the car in front. If thats not skill then what is!

    I would also like to point out that australia has a NASCAR series, but being true racing fans we can see the best of both kinds, unlike the people from seppo land who can see past their severly shrunken cocks to recognise and respect an elite for of racing such as V8 Supercars."



    Nascar drivers do this. You ever hear of a person by the name of Robby Gordon? Or Tony Stewart? They race in IRL on occasion. Can you say that Nascar drivers can't drive on a Road Course? Watkins Glen and Sears Point (AKA Infineon). Thats all I have to say. Cup drivers take a 3200 pound car a round a roadcourse at speeds over 100 mph, 169 kph, on average. Infineon has a part of the track called the esses. In this point, the cars are accelerated up to 140+ mph, 236 kph. They go from that, down to 35 mph, 59 kph, into a 180degree hairpin turn. How about watkins glen? Just about similar results. What about Ron Fellowes, not a cup regular, but he races in it. What has he done in recent years? Oh wait, he won the GTS class in Lemans. Jeff Gordon took out Juan Pablo Montoyas F1 car for a spin at Indy. His first time in an F1 car he turned a lap fast enough to qualify for the race. If a driver can master an oval, he can master a road course (at least the majority of good drivers). Not many people from road racing have ever been able to compete in cup, because they don't have enough skill to do it. I do know many cup drivers, that could actually make it in road racing. So next time you want to talk about skill, lets go for skill on ovals and road courses. And there is one thing I forgot. V8 Supercars are easier to drive. Cup cars are large and stubborn, and you need skil and guts to drive them. V8 supercars are more friendly for road racing. Once again I must reiterate how I love both types of racing. I love a lot of types of racing. But to anyone who says Cup drivers don't have skill, I must say you are not a fan of racing at all.
     
  24. Re: whats better, NASCAR or V8 Supercars???????

    I seem to remember a nascar race on a non circular track where 1/2 of the field crashed out BECAUSE THEY SUCK. people like marcos ambrose and mark skaife are much better drivers and v8 supercars is a better series. I heard one of the v8 supercar teams tuned an old AU falcon (when it wasn't being used anymore) as much as they could and made a 215 mph 850bhp supercar from an atmo 5.0 litre v8!
    V8supercars are better
     
  25. Re: whats better, NASCAR or V8 Supercars???????

    Ok, if you're so smart, how can you prove these facts don't mean anything? First off, cup cars don't have half the field wreck, ever, unless they are at talladega in packs of 30 plus cars going 200 mph, 2 inches from a car on all sides of them. Secondly, even if they do have a big wreck, it is in fact, due to the extremely close racing. Another thing that adds even more is that instead of 33 cars in the field like avesco, they have 43 cars. Also, 90 percent of the time, when a multicar crash exists, it isn't cause they suck. It is because they are racing a inch apart from each other.Oh I just thought of another thing. All of the avesco tracks, with exception of adelaide and gold coast, they all have run off room. If you look at Infineon or Watkins, the wall is pretty much the only thing to stop cars. As for the atmo motor, I know nothing of it, but making 850hp from a 5.0 liter motor isn't like it is some astonishing feat. Cup car have by regulation, a 5.866 liter motor, that has a carb, and lower allowances on technology, and have been known to make between 750-800 hp. So for this motor to have 850 hp, means absolutely nothing. Oh, here is some other things to think about. V8 Supercars are allowed any suspension they want. I would bet that anyday, in cars that are entirely different than a v8supercar or cup car (maybe like a f1 car or like a corvette c5r), that in a race, a cup driver would win. Winston cup is the most competitive series out there. But to anyone that says cup drivers don't have skill, doesn't know racing. I love v8supercars, ive said it many times. But when people who are stupid, don't realize that other racing series are just as good or even better, i can't take it. So for you non believers, continue to do so, cause you would never understand. As for the true racing lovers (those who like me, still find it ridiculous to compare these series) i bid you farewell.
     

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