Why are some people obsessed with these?

Discussion in '2004 Holden Monaro CV8 Series III' started by Ford rulez, Dec 19, 2004.

  1. I just don't get it, they're ridiculously heavy, they're slow, they have little power and torque for the engine, why do people like them?

    They're awful, awful cars, and ridiculously overrated.


    I must concede however....some of them do look alright, certainly no suby though.


    Edit: I feel I must clarify, I got a little carried away in how blunt I was, and took it beyond what I truly meant, which is described below.

    Holden is good, fair enough, however there's nothing special about them in any way, they have not achieved anything unique, . I mean, you don't see anybody getting hard over an Acura RL or a BMW 6 series, so what's so special about Holden to generate so many obsessed fanboys?

    It's an alright design concept I suppose, if you want a stable family sedan/saloon that has a bit of "go juice" to it, and a reasonable amount of room. But They're designing their performance cars on this concept for crying out loud! Holden is the only manufacturer stupid enough to use this concept for their entire lineup and racing ventures! Why? It's just....well, idiotic.

    That's my point.
     
  2. I own an SIII so I guess I am somewhat entitled to comment.

    Firstly - in a straight line presuming equal drivers, dry road, stock cars:

    WRX - with good launch might hang on until 35mph. Even the new 2.5.
    STi - Will stay at the door until first gearchange when it will drop back. After that it will slowly disappear backwards.
    EVO VII, VIII will level-peg or slightly head it to approx. 200km/h, then gradually fall away.

    There is no Honda sold in Australia which will stay in it's wake, even the V6. Ask me how I know....

    On a track, a Monaro runs out of brakes, as it is not designed for this purpose but until that point is a good handler for RWD car. A HSV GTO R8 with the Koni suspension and big AP brakes will live with most roadcars including M-series Bimmers at Phillip Island - where HSV develops new models.

    Understeer going to power oversteer. It is obviously not as nimble as a smaller lighter car on a tighter course but on fast sweepers Monaro is rock solid. Bridgestone developed RE040s in 235/18 for this car. For handling, refer to Top Gear's test of the VXR Monaro which is a 285Kw/380hp HSV GTO Coupe, or Rhys Millen who won the 2005 US Drift champs in his GTO - it handles really well arse-out but chews tyres that way. Top Gear lapped VXR faster and rated it a better handler than the LS6-engined Cadillac CTS-V - don't judge by anything US-made. Corvette might handle better but with nothing like the comfort. Top Gear gave it the 'Muscle Car' award for 2004. They chose it over the R-type Supercharged XK Jag.

    Monaro is designed to be a personal luxury coupe, so it is loaded with power everything, leather, side airbags, speed-variable 10-speaker 260 watt stereo, better finish inside/out, full instrumentation and customisable display/trip computer, felt doorseals, 8-way power/3-memory seats, etc, etc. Hence the weight. It is expensive and a limited car so is holding value much better than any other Holden at present. On a trip, whether highway or twisty roads, it is comfortable, fast, smooth, quiet with no wind noise due to coupe profile and .31cd and even economical @ 30mpg on a legal speed cruise. Americans might not 'get' the styling but Australians do.

    Monaros were virtually hand-built in jigs as the shells don't go down the line with the 4-doors and Holden stepped up build quality and finish - they get extra QC checks and special seals and clear topcoats shared by Calais and Statesman; and plenty of sound-deadening. For a vehicle with 18" wheels they handle well - but seat 4 adults in comfortable bucket seats for 5-600 mile trips - something no Suby, Nissan or Mitsu turbo will do. The seats are, as Jeremy Clarkson says, perfect. Driven 500 miles on one tank intercity in a day and felt like I've gone around the block.

    Private owners have done low 13s with stock cars. There is no speed limiter on any Holden V8 apart from the Ute due to it's fabric rear tonneau cover and aerodynamics(none on HSV Maloo). Pontiac GTOs are limited because GM US stupidly selected 17" BFG tyres rated only 155mph, which also ruin looks and handling. Top speed of HSV GTS is 182mph. Top Gear achieved 185 from 2005 Vauxhall VXR with LS2. Motor Magazine achieved 167.5 mph or 270km/h on a stock 245kw SIII in 2004 - straight as an arrow. Yet a full service at 10,000km costs $200 with six litres of synthetic oil - and the motor can be expected to last 2-300,000km with moderate care in normal use. Standard SIIIs dyno at 200-210kw.

    As to why they are such a success in Australia? Monaro is Australia's 60's icon. When shown as a concept at 1998 Sydney motor show, attendences increased by 65% over the next three days. Holden never intended to build it. They were forced to by three weeks of wall-wall media coverage. Remember, Holden is Australias' Vauxhall or Chev - meant to do ordinary cars for families and reliable transport.

    As far as price: next nearest new V8 4-seat coupe (Mercedes) when I bought my car was $160,000 - and it ain't faster, more comfortable or a better drive! It even depreciates faster. BMW 645 costs $220K here - has almost identical specs for performance (power, even same tyre sizes), is lighter but is much smaller and tighter inside and with less creature comforts. The average-income person could never aspire to one - but they can to a Monaro which is why Monaros outsell them 100:1
     
  3. I own an SIII so I guess I am somewhat entitled to comment.

    Firstly - in a straight line presuming equal drivers, dry road, stock cars:

    WRX - with good launch might hang on until 35mph. Even the new 2.5.
    STi - Will stay at the door until first gearchange when it will drop back. After that it will slowly disappear backwards.
    EVO VII, VIII will level-peg or slightly head it to approx. 200km/h, then gradually fall away.

    There is no Honda sold in Australia which will stay in it's wake, even the V6. Ask me how I know....

    On a track, a Monaro runs out of brakes, as it is not designed for this purpose but until that point is a good handler for RWD car. A HSV GTO R8 with the Koni suspension and big AP brakes will live with most roadcars including M-series Bimmers at Phillip Island - where HSV develops new models.

    Understeer going to power oversteer. It is obviously not as nimble as a smaller lighter car on a tighter course but on fast sweepers Monaro is rock solid. Bridgestone developed RE040s in 235/18 for this car. For handling, refer to Top Gear's test of the VXR Monaro which is a 285Kw/380hp HSV GTO Coupe, or Rhys Millen who won the 2005 US Drift champs in his GTO - it handles really well arse-out but chews tyres that way. Top Gear lapped VXR faster and rated it a better handler than the LS6-engined Cadillac CTS-V - don't judge by anything US-made. Corvette might handle better but with nothing like the comfort. Top Gear gave it the 'Muscle Car' award for 2004. They chose it over the R-type Supercharged XK Jag.

    Monaro is designed to be a personal luxury coupe, so it is loaded with power everything, leather, side airbags, speed-variable 10-speaker 260 watt stereo, better finish inside/out, full instrumentation and customisable display/trip computer, felt doorseals, 8-way power/3-memory seats, etc, etc. Hence the weight. It is expensive and a limited car so is holding value much better than any other Holden at present. On a trip, whether highway or twisty roads, it is comfortable, fast, smooth, quiet with no wind noise due to coupe profile and .31cd and even economical @ 30mpg on a legal speed cruise. Americans might not 'get' the styling but Australians do.

    Monaros were virtually hand-built in jigs as the shells don't go down the line with the 4-doors and Holden stepped up build quality and finish - they get extra QC checks and special seals and clear topcoats shared by Calais and Statesman; and plenty of sound-deadening. For a vehicle with 18" wheels they handle well - but seat 4 adults in comfortable bucket seats for 5-600 mile trips - something no Suby, Nissan or Mitsu turbo will do. The seats are, as Jeremy Clarkson says, perfect. Driven 500 miles on one tank intercity in a day and felt like I've gone around the block.

    Private owners have done low 13s with stock cars. There is no speed limiter on any Holden V8 apart from the Ute due to it's fabric rear tonneau cover and aerodynamics(none on HSV Maloo). Pontiac GTOs are limited because GM US stupidly selected 17" BFG tyres rated only 155mph, which also ruin looks and handling. Top speed of HSV GTS is 182mph. Top Gear achieved 185 from 2005 Vauxhall VXR with LS2. Motor Magazine achieved 167.5 mph or 270km/h on a stock 245kw SIII in 2004 - straight as an arrow. Yet a full service at 10,000km costs $200 with six litres of synthetic oil - and the motor can be expected to last 2-300,000km with moderate care in normal use. Standard SIIIs dyno at 200-210kw.

    As to why they are such a success in Australia? Monaro is Australia's 60's icon. When shown as a concept at 1998 Sydney motor show, attendences increased by 65% over the next three days. Holden never intended to build it. They were forced to by three weeks of wall-wall media coverage. Remember, Holden is Australias' Vauxhall or Chev - meant to do ordinary cars for families and reliable transport.

    As far as price: next nearest new V8 4-seat coupe (Mercedes) when I bought my car was $160,000 - and it ain't faster, more comfortable or a better drive! It even depreciates faster. BMW 645 costs $220K here - has almost identical specs for performance (power, even same tyre sizes), is lighter but is much smaller and tighter inside and with less creature comforts. The average-income person could never aspire to one - but they can to a Monaro which is why Monaros outsell them 100:1
     
  4. lol, nice reply

    the guy just went away hehe
     

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