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Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Tensor, Sep 13, 2009.
Driving cost down via various means is the only way to end up with any decent system. Socializing wont help anything and just cost everybody more than it already does, for a relatively small increase and coverage and a possible decline in healthcare quality. I think a privatized system can work the best, just not how the current cost structure is set up.
More than anything I think anyone that suggests theres a cure-all for the system is full of shit.
Out of curiosity, where do you live?
It's all screwed up.
It will be impossible to fix, the only thing Americans can do is get insurance.
There's several reasons - the size of the country, the conservative nature of the political system, and the attitude of America towards people of lower classes to name a few.
It'll be an issue for many many decades, I'm glad that I don't live there.
I think that Obama's idea for healthcare isn't a bad one; it's really Congress that's trying to add a bunch of shit that his ideas didn't originally contain. Basically, if people can't afford to be insured, then there should be some type of option available to them that's competitive with current companies.
We're all getting #$%#ed over by social security and medicare/medicaid anyway, and that's only if you live long enough to get it, so why not have a public insurance option of some sort instead of medicare/medicaid that people can use and not be 65 and retired?
I'm in Virginia and these are my own opinions and thoughts as asked by the OP. Also, I'm an engineer, not a policymaker.
The US is the only first world country without socialized health care... why do you think that is?
I lived in a few countries in Europe, and from first-hand experience i can tell you that socialized health care works... much better than what we have here in the US. The basic problem with privatized health care is that objective of medicine becomes profit, and not healing. Healthcare should not be a commodity, It should be a human right. 15,000 Americans die each year of perfectly preventable causes because they could not afford health care, half of all bankruptcies in the united states are due to medical expenses. Is it really worth it protecting corporate profit over the welfare of the nation?
Not American obviously, but I think you guys should give Obama's plan a shot.
Too much regulation
Ill play devils advocate for a second.
Outside of canada, the US also has a vastly lower cost of living and vastly more disposable income, largely because we dont tax the piss out of everything. its not corporate profits. It all comes back to extra cost that is burdened onto the individual. Always. You dont just get the money for free from businesses. they cut costs, jobs, wages, etc to make up for it. They have to. youre still paying for it.
and just because other countries do it doesnt mean its right for america. There are big cultural, logistical, and political differences that make it a largely apples and oranges situation. The US is much larger, much more diverse, and a much more competitive environment than any country with socialized healthcare.
Socialized healthcare does have major drawbacks to it too, especially when concerning major operations. What about the massive waiting lists for major surgeries in canada? Private healthcare is actually growing in canada right now because of the issue.
and I would argue that being profit driven isnt a bad thing necessarily. It makes it a much more competitive field where the capable are the ones that succeed. Its kind of like how the labor union employee that cant be fired does half the work of the non-union guy that can be.
The whole question is who pays and how much. As a healthy individual, I think its incredibly unfair that in my life im going to have to pay 100x as much in taxes for healthcare than a fat blob without a job. I dont think everyone DESERVES stuff given to them, and I think people should have the OPTION to donate their money and time or whatever to help people. More importantly, I think people should have the option to NOT DONATE if it goes against what they think. Same reasoning why im against welfare. If I wanna help people, I wanna do it on MY TERMS, not the governments.
The real issue is the escalating cost, not the fact that its not socialized. If the industry was either De- Re- regulated such that it doesnt pidgeon hole the industry into absurd costs (like malpractice insurance, not allowing people to go out of state for insurance, etc), this whole thing would be much less of an issue. socializing it doesnt lower these costs. If anything, especially with the US govt's track record, adding all of the bureaucracy will just end up increasing the whole systems cost.
How can this be a federal issue, by the way? When did the states give up their right to keep their own health policies?
Caarn m8 just giv it a crack ay
its not supposed to be, but 80+% of what the govt regulates isnt supposed to be under their discretion.
I wish it were up to the states. They could make everything run much smoother by doing whats right for the states' population, not trying a one size fits all policy and forcing it down as many unwilling people's throats.. And a level of red tape can be cut out in the process. Its the same reason why state-level education is way more successful than nationally run stuff.
You guys should consider taking on superannuation as well. Aren't the US costs for pensions expected to skyrocket in the years to come?
nationalized healthcare might work for a small nation, but a nation as large as the US, with over 300 million people cannot feasibly be cared for. Healthcare quality would decrease, not increase. There are already healthcare clinics for uninsured people, and the quality of care isnt very great.
socialism will never work in the USA. obama's plans will fail and his administration is full of shit.
no public option
I'm glad the feds are making this their issue. Michigan is too benkrupt to get anything done on its own.
That said, socialize my healthcare, plz.
Ya, Obama cares more about stopping insurance companies from dropping customers after they get sick, and making it so that people with pre-existing conditions can buy insurance instead of getting blacklisted and fvcked for life. Also, Obama wants health insurance to cover preventative medicine such as breast cancer exams. It's fvcking ridiculous that they won't, since catching cancer early is MUCH cheaper to deal with.
It's Pelosi and Congress that care more about the public option.
The health care reform sounds pretty good except for the public option.
Guess what? You need the government to regulate companies into selling insurance to everyone and not dropping them once they get sick. It's more profitable for them to only insurance healthy people, because they pay out less. However, that means anyone who's ever been seriously sick will get screwed because once they are dropped, nobody will offer them insurance and they just go bankrupt the next time they get sick or injured. Private insurance can work, but only if the government makes sure they actually sell insurance to people who need it.
Obama has a lot of good ideas, and it looks like he is going to stand by at least some of these ideas. something needs to change, i wont pretend like i have the answer though.
one thing he is not doing that i do think would help is to have insurance companies ignore state lines, it would create more competition, and bring down the cost to the public.
a few years ago though, i would have been against it, because of where i grew up, i had a very conservative value. now, im much more liberal in all senses (ive always been liberal when it comes to social choices like abortion/gay marriage/etc.
anyway, the biggest reason i personally can see the need is personal experience. my girlfriend got several blood clots in her lungs a few years back, some of you might remember me posting about it. at this point she is uninsureable, unless of course she is getting it through an employer under some blanket account.
but this doesnt help us for what we want, we want to finish school (then she will lose her healthcare) then get married, and start thinking about having kids. well she cant just "have kids" now. before she gets pregnant we need to make a plan for her pregnancy with a dr. and start her on a daily injection, this injection has been on the market for decades with minimal changes. the price of this injection is $150 each day, for about 10 months, as she would have to start taking it before she gets pregnant.
i'd be lucky to be able to afford that 15 years from now, let alone right out of college. i understand having to make your money back after research costs, but they have far exceeded doing that, at this point they know its the only way on the market for a women with this condition to safely have a baby, and people will pay an arm and a leg for it, so thats what they charge, there is something wrong with that. and i hope someday that this sort of thing is regulated.
as it is now, we have to count on this healthcare system to require companies to give her affordable healthcare that would pay for this sort of thing for us... it might be abusing the system, but i think its obvious that these companies have been abusing us for long enough. and they obviously wont be going to the poor house because of it.
I think the public option is a horrible idea. If it is priced under the insurance companies it will run everybody out of business. If it doesn't undercut them then it's #$%#ing useless to anybody. There is no win with the public option.
I like the Michael Moore-documentary Sicko, it pretty much sums up everything I think about it.
cuz u started thinking that after you saw the documentary you simple minded mouthbreather