Dodge Viper question

Discussion in 'American Cars' started by F50Fanatic, Apr 22, 2006.

  1. Since the arrival of the new cheaper, equally fast Z06, there is hardly a reason to buy a Viper other than being more "exotic" than the Corvette. Dodge probably doesn't want the Viper to compete head to head with the Corvette so the only option would be to move upmarket with a faster and likely more expensive Viper. The problem with that is that there will probably be even fewer customers buying the already slow-selling car which may lead to it getting the axe.

    If the DC people are able to some how tack on another +100bhp or so while keeping the car under $90k, it should do alright.
     
  2. I tend to agree, when Viper upped the performance bar, it took Corvette quite a few years, but it finally stepped up to the plate with the Z06. for me this is actually exciting news as American Sports cars had really fallen behind European sports cars. But now that Corvette has stepped up ... wait and see what Viper will do. Give it about 1-2 years to get to production, but if the rumors are true of the new 680 hp NA Viper, the Z06 will fall behind again and then they will need to catch up. This type of competition is what makes it so exciting. If the US starts putting out Supercars at 700 hp+ with great breaking and performance numbers like the Z06 and Viper, Porsche and Ferrari will have a hell of a time staying on top. Even a recent cover story in one of the car magazines said is the 911 finally been dethroned? It was comparing 3 other rival cars to the 911. The Z06 won on almost every category. If Viper causes Corvette to step up and the Z06 causes Viper to step up with a new 680 hp Viper ... both for under $100k. This will cause some VERY serious competition and we all as car enthusiasts will win :cool:
     
  3. gstg... they are saying on the second url... "the fastest viper... or the most powerful viper in the world." they are not saying like the most powerful sports car or anything... they are just comparing it to older vipers not other cars.

    ps... you cant compare a vipers MPG to Mclarens since the mcalren has alot more to it than a viper like bigger engine, more horsepower, etc. for a car like the viper it has terrible mileage. compared to other acrs in its category! When comparing MPG you can only compare it to cars in the same category as the car. You cant compare a Ferrari F50's MPG to a Ford focus MPG.
     
  4. That Viper show was filmed in Calgary.
     
  5. #55 Guibo, Apr 29, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Quote from mclarencars:
    "they are just comparing it to older vipers not other cars."

    No, that's not true. In a lot of those issues, it's Hennessey's Vipers being compared to other cars (not just other Vipers). For stock Viper comparos with other cars, consider...

    R&T has done:
    Viper GTS vs C5 Cabrio vs Porsche 996 vs Acura NSX vs BMW M Roadster vs Ferrari F355
    Viper SRT-10 vs Lotus Elise
    Viper SRT-10 vs C6 Corvette vs 997S vs Boxster S vs Honda S2000 vs BMW Z4 vs MB SLK350 vs Lotus Elise vs Nissan 350Z

    C&D has done:
    Viper GTS vs Porsche 993 Turbo S vs Acura NSX-T
    Viper GTS vs Ferrari F355 vs Porsche 993 vs Toyota Supra vs BMW E36 M3 vs etc (massive handling comparison issue)

    Motor Trend has done:
    Viper GTS vs 550 Maranello vs C5 Corvette vs 993 Turbo vs 996 Turbo vs Supra Turbo vs etc (many comparos over many years)
    Viper SRT-10 vs Murcielago vs Mosler MT900S vs Mitsubishi Evo vs SVT Cobra vs vs etc ("Speeding" shootout from '03, I believe)

    Autocar has done:
    SRT-10 Viper vs SL55 AMG

    Germany's Auto Motor und Sport / Sport Auto have done the following comparisons:
    SRT-10 Viper vs SL55 AMG
    SRT-10 Viper vs Corvette
    SRT-10 Viper vs BMW M6 vs Lamborghini Gallardo
    Viper GTS vs 550 Maranello vs Corvette vs AM V8 Vantage (old one)

    http://www.autobild.de/test/neuwagen/artikel.php?artikel_id=5497

    Teknikens Varld has done the test below.
     
  6. Probobly (LS1)
     
  7. #57 Viper600, Apr 29, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    McLaren ... not sure what your talking about there are over 30 articles there and 2 TV programs like this one ...

    http://wms2.streamhoster.com/gitginc/wm9_400kbit_car_and_driver.wmv

    All the articles are from magazines comparing the TOP supercars, not just Vipers. Here's some examples to make it easier for you to read:

    http://www.hennesseyperformance.com/hennesseyperformance/ink.php?cart=drkAeysB&show=yes&article=26

    http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=7&article_id=2572&page_number=1

    http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0401_exotic_coupe_comparison/index.html

    There literally are TONS of Comparison Articles out there. The Viper is almost exclusively compared to Supercars in magazines.

    I know some Supercar fans don't like having their million dollar super cars compare to lowly American cars ... but in the TV show I linked the Viper beats the Mosler 900, which is VERY much a competitor to the McLaren. The McLaren is not a very streetable car. Not only were there not many made but the ones that were made had MAJOR issues with over heating problems. It was unable to drive more then 50 miles in regular streets without overheating. The same issues plagued it on the track as well for years. Here's the easiest way to look that up ...

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=overheating+McLaren

    While the McLaren is truely a Supercar, it's far from perfect. As far as MPG 20 mpg is GREAT on almost ANY Supercar. Let me give you some examples:

    2003 Porsche Carrera GT - 15 mpg
    2006 Porsche 911 Turbo - 15/22 mpg
    2006 Dodge Viper - 15/22 mpg
    Saleen S7 - 10/17 mpg
    Ferrari 430 - 11/16 mpg
    Lamborghini Murcielago - 10/14 mpg

    So I'm not sure where you think the Viper is any worse or any better then any other Sports car as far as MPG?
     
  8. Ermm...no. I wouldn't say the McLaren is a competitor to the Mosler. It's far more exotically built, built to a much higher standard, and it'll shred that Mosler to pieces at anything over 60 mph (and will beat it fairly well on the top end to boot). Not to mention it was built for British roads (so long suspension travel with considerable compliance is an issue), and what it gives up in outright pace to the Mosler (assuming a small enough track) I'm sure it'll make up for in ride quality; the Mosler's been known to have a very brittle ride.
    As for overheating, the only known case I've read of is that Ameritech-modified one in R&T's road test. And that test was done in 100+ degree temps. R&T later tested that car for a top speed article and noted no overheating problems whatsoever.
     
  9. As far as the overheating .. don't just go on what YOU'VE read ... read the articles I linked talking about the HUGE overheating problems it had in all the track events. As far as the street one I know someone who owns one and can't drive it because of the over heating issues. I assure you it's VERY much a problem. It has to do with any stop and go traffic, not tempature outside.
     
  10. Track events...are we talking about McLaren *race cars* here? Because those are the results I'm getting from the link that you put up. The McLaren *F1*'s did very well in roadracing.
    I'm open to some more 1st-hand accounts, if you have them.
     
  11. The issue on top speed tests is that as long as the car is doing over 100 it has sufficient air flow to cool it's engines. But once it gets below that it did not have a large enough cooling system to handle any stop and go traffic or slow moving traffic. Rightfully so it was designed as a race car, not a street car, so it has incredible performance, just not good streetability.

    As far as first hand knowledge mine comes from one of the original owners, as such they did try to make improvements later, but to tell you the truth most owners don't use them and as such it was not really well addressed.

    As far as why I consider the Mosler a competitor to the McLaren, it's because of it's track numbers. On long str8 tracks larger HP cars win more, on short tracks lighter wgt cars win more. If you want to get into comparisons for McLaren I'd rather ask you guys what other cars YOU consider in the McLaren catagory, this way I don't spend a ton of time just handing out racing stats, etc.

    I didn't mean to hijack the thread ... if you want we can make a McLaren thread dealing with the issues I've seen first hand as well. Needless to say the McLaren is an incredible car.

    Want to talk about a strange conversation ... I have an associate who owns 2 F40's, an F50 and an Enzo and he likes the F40 the best ...haha. Says the Enzo is far to refined.
     
  12. R&T noted that the F1 not only failed to overheat on the actual top speed run, but it also didn't overheat when "being maneuvered slowly about the paddock for photography". So, it's not just in high speed driving that that particular F1 didn't overheat.
     
  13. Again, it may have been a later model, I don't know, "being maneuvered slowly about the paddock for photography" is not street driving. My associate says he can't drive it more then 50 miles on the highway. I suspect that "being maneuvered slowly about the paddock for photography" is far from street driving. Also as I mentioned anything over 100mph is no problem at all. In the top speed test this would never be an issue.

    But again I don't want to hijack this thread. I was not meaning to compare the Viper to the McLaren, just that the MPG was the better and the the MPG on the Viper is not any worse then any other car in it's class.
     
  14. The point is that paddock maneuvers would indeed involve stopping, and speeds like you'd find in stop and go. Not merely in the top speed run did that F1 fail to overheat. (And wouldn't you think that 50 miles of highway travel, which don't involve stop and go and are likely to involve 60+ mph speeds, is easier on a car than manuevering in a paddock?) And this is the same exact F1 that overheated in their road test. So perhaps some bugs in the conversion to US regs were ironed out, who knows? I think it's safe to say that the cases of F1's overheating are the exception, rather than the rule.
     
  15. Well ... not sure about the exception. Moving around the paddock is nothing more then 10 mph to the next photo stop. Then setting up lighting, etc. Take the photo then move to the next location. Each time allows the car to cool down. As I mentioned the issue is below 100mph, not just stopping and going. Stopping and going simply makes it overheat faster. Again this may be issues as you mentioned about US regulations and adding exhaust restrictions. I don't know. It's an incredcible car. My point was not that it's not, just that as the original poster said the Viper had horrid gas mpg. So I used his car for compring mpg.
     
  16. Yes, I'd say it's the exception considering
    1) the number of road tests and articles printed about driving the F1 (which all count as 1st-hand accounts, not hearsay), and
    2) the number of road tests saying anything about the F1 overheating (for which I've only read one, and that was one modified for US regs and tested in 100+ degree temps)
    Just as one example, Octane ran an article about the Dunhill Motorities tour, a sort of mini-Gumball rolling parade from Dunhill's store in downtown Londown to its store in downtown Paris. Three different McLaren F1's participated, and all were obviously subjected to stop and go traffic conditions. There was not a single mention of overheating for any of them. Only car mentioned with overheating problems was an E-Type Jaguar.

    Agreed, the Viper's fuel economy isn't considerably worse than other similarly powerful exotics. In that C&D comparo with the 993 Turbo S and NSX-T, all three cars returned the same overall test fuel economy.
     
  17. Yes but the matter is ultra dark and protected with unobtanium.
     
  18. yeah... i've never heard of any overheating issues... as for only getting 50 miles and having to stop... i was just laughing at the thought of that stupid statement.

    either the people that say this crap dont know how to drive a supercar or they dont like the car so they will say what ever they can to make it look bad when really it is perfectly fine...

    which is why i never listen to american car testers because they will always say good things about american cars while putting down the foriegn made cars... even when they do better, its rediculous why american's are so damn ignorant, when it comes to something outside there own country!

    i was watching a show with a ford and a porsche or something comparison and the guy said all these good things about the ford which was no where near the porsches figures... the porsche won but the guy said allkinds of stupid things about the porsche and said he was a fan of ford and he would take it... while putting the porsche down.
     
  19. quote from mclarencars:
    "which is why i never listen to american car testers because they will always say good things about american cars while putting down the foriegn made cars... even when they do better, its rediculous why american's are so damn ignorant, when it comes to something outside there own country!"

    Quit being retarded. If you knew anything at all, you'd know American cars rarely fare well against foreign made competition in US mag tests. It's only been in the past couple of years that they've started matching (or in rare cases, surpassing) the foreign competition. If there's any test involving a BMW or Porsche, you can almost bet the best overall car award would go to the Germans.
    So, in short, you're better off stopping at saying the Viper is never compared to other cars. Which, as it turns out, is clearly false.
     
  20. #70 Viper600, Apr 30, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    "With a steep rake, it's always problematical to ventilate a mid-engined car. The McLaren F-1 is a perfect example of a 1.1 million dollar car prone to overheating"

    The Road & Track article that Guibo is talking about is the December 1997 where the car over heated in regular driving conditions under 80mph. What I was talking about was a first hand owner who doesn't use his much (not that he needs to), mainly because he says it overheats under 100mph. As I mentioned before it may have been an issue with the early model cars or as Guibo pointed out it may have been an issue with additional emmisions controls that needed to be added to comply with California smog emmissions.

    Again this is off topic. I've been reading up and as Guibo pointed out it doesn't seem to be an issue with any of the European F1's, and even the recent

    http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=392

    R&T tests didn't have any issues with the current models, so it may have been an early issue, that was resolved.

    "i've never heard of any overheating issues... as for only getting 50 miles and having to stop... i was just laughing at the thought of that stupid statement."

    It's your favorite car, you should read articles on it. You may laugh but you don't own one. The person who was talking to me owns one and it's not my opinion it's his.

    "either the people that say this crap dont know how to drive a supercar or they dont like the car so they will say what ever they can to make it look bad when really it is perfectly fine... "

    As far as this is concerned again you may wish to actually read some articles on the subject. For example the latest article states that ...

    "It is the greatest street car I've ever driven" .. so it's not that they don't like it.
     

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