Finger-pointing begins as Senate nixes auto vote

Discussion in 'American Cars' started by MuscleCarHeart, Nov 19, 2008.

  1. entiendes español supongo?

    mira el asunto es que estos cabrones del sindicato piden muchas chingaderas a gm-chry-ford (pensiones,aumentos,beneficios etc,etc,etc) aparte sumale lo que ganan los trabajadores 70 dollar la hora; es un chingo comparado con lo que las demas (toyot-hond-niss) o las mismas "3" pagan en otras partes como sudamerica o asia , lo que deben hacer si quieren sobrevivir es mandar ala verga al sindicato cierra la mitad de tus plantas en estados unidos y pon plantas nuevas en sudamerica, obvio cortas gastos de produccion (noams en sueldos de ahorras en lugar de pagar 70 dollar por hora aqui en la planta de GM de ramos arizpe ganan 70 al dia ). ponle mas tax a cualquier vehiculo fabricado en el extranjero y ya el juego es parejo para todos ... si me entiendes?
  2. it already has you stupid shit, they're asking for a slice of the existing bail out pie, 60,000,000,000 dollars of which hasn't been allocated to ANYONE yet.

    the bail out is already passed, that money isn't going anywhere yet, and they're asking for an amount within that chunk.
  3. the american car industry is one of the cornerstones of the united states economy, which is a major player obviously in the world economy. house of cards.

    it seems a lot of people are forgetting that the bailout already passed, so it's a moot point to argue over whether tax money should be used ona bail out. I don't think it should. it already passed though.

    my problem with the bailout aside from disagreeing with its philosophy is that they aren't being forced to address problems. tax payers are just supposed to accept to this point that the same companies in the same environment will make different decisions?

    whoever gets money from the bailout should have to submit a plan to congress on how they will spend it, and in the big threes case, if they get money, they should be forced to detail some kind of a strategy to improve conditions since they'll just be adding it to an existing pile of cash.

    end rant for now
  4. also, your market share point doesn't really help right now because the entire market has shrunk immensely due to the overall state of the economy. a lot of people would still be out of a job, especially if gigantic GM fails first, increasing all of our problems and the big two would most likely still be in trouble.

    another problem is that ironically some of the healthiest parts of the companies are its abilities to finance. GMAC has been looked at by outside investors before any of this bail out stuff. one of the companys reaching bankruptcy or flat out failing has serious negative affects on other car financing divisions and peoples faith in buying from an american make anyway. I would argue that proportionally the market share would fall for the survivors as it would give even more incentives to the brain of a consumer to buy foreign. having larger market share all things being equal with less competitors doesn't mean a whole lot.
  5. regaurdless of what anybodys view on any of this Im positive they will get a handout, and we'll be in the exact same situation in 6 months. Id actually be in favor of the government being in control of them over just handing them more cash to #$%# up with.
  6. Si, eso lo entiendo, pero por eso te pregunto que definas que es un "coche extranjero". Hoy en dia muchas marcas "extranjeras", competencia de las 3 grandes, estan produciendo carros en USA.

    El Chevy Camaro, por ejemplo, es hecho en Canada, pero el Toyota Camry es hecho en USA... de esos dos, cual es el "coche extranjero"?
  7. SI entiendo lo que dices, pero para eso esta el NAFTA .. lo que las 3 deberian hacer es poner plantas unica y exclusivamente en norte america (canada,mexico,us) para la venta de coches en estados unidos , y dejar las demas plantas de coches que estan por todo el mundo para exportacion a otros paises . ya que el problema es en USA , sacrificar algunas plantas de estados unidos y mandarlas a mexico donde el costo de produccion es 1/3 parte menos que en estados unidos . te pongo un ejemplo claro en mexico la venta de autos es una de las mas estables del mundo por su aplicacion de impuestos a vehiculos extrangeros lo que hace que los vehiculos fabricados en america tengan mayor demanda por su bajo costo ... no se si me entiendas pero son estrategias de mercado que algunos ejecutivos old-fashion de gm-chry-ford no quieren entender !
  8. Я ненавижу вас. Вы опостылеете мне.
  9. Without declaring Chapter 11 the automakers are stuck with union contracts. Half of the $50,000,000,000 (assuming they get the extra 25 billion) is going towards pensions according to the news.

    Right now there is a huge global surplus of new cars that aren't selling, so basically we'd be giving them $25 billion to add to the surplus?

    I think the big 3 should not get the help they want, declare Chapter 11, go through a major restructuring that hopefully would include getting rid of the majority of its management, and do their best to wash their hands of the UAW. That would be a start to the building of a successful car industry in the US. Otherwise we are throwing money at an inevitable collapse. Why prolong the pain?
  10. Like I said before GM needs to axle Buick, Hummer, and Saab(or sell it).
  11. In all fairness it is mostly the banking situation that has put them in this position. In "normal" times they wouldn't have been bleeding money this bad and whatever amount they would have lost during restructuring could have been financed privately no problem.

    What I foresee happening with this whole thing is this: The government is going to give them money, but it won't be as much as they need and it will have TOO MANY string attached to make it work. They'll be back within months because the whole thing is stupid. As I said the government is sure to do this stupid shit in the first place, so they might as well just give them a huge low interest loan to consolidate their private debt at a lower rate as well and make the tax payer money. Unfortunately the idiot Democrats will put stupid strings on it about ridiculous fuel economy standards and tripling the UAWs benefits and salaries or some stupid ass shit and it will make them waste half the dough they do get.

    Should have elected Ron Paul you tools!!!
  12. very true
  13. ya prolly.
  14. They've been heading for this and they have done nothing to avoid it. The lending problems just accelerated it.
  15. This is really getting scary. Look at GM selling Suzuki and Ford Mazda just this week, for a fraction what they'd be worth under a normal circumstance. They'd only do that if they were *D*E*S*P*E*R*A*T*E* for cash. These are those closest and most important global allies. The CEO f*cked up the optics BIG TIME, but US politics is still broken if congress can't swallow it's anger and do the right thing.
  16. Ford sold Mazda????
  17. No. They were both easily on their way to profitability before this shit went down, and both had no immediate worries in terms of cash reserves. Gas skyrocketing and then this bank mess are totally why they're in this position. They weren't doing awesome, but they weren't THAT bad off.
  18. I thought CEOs did no work? Howd they #$%# up bigtime?

    And so what theyre selling shit off? Theyre doing what theyre supposed to do. When you #$%# up for the last 35 years you should have to suffer some. In the long run itll be for the better.

    I hate how everyone in favor of these bailouts fails to see what it will do in the long run. Yeah, it may work for a decade, maybe a few more depending on the situation, but in the long run it WILL come bite us in the ass.
  19. GM hasn't been profitable in 15 years, and will continue to suffer as long as older workers are retiring and racking up these ridiculous pensions.

    GM used to be a diverse company with GMAC and Hughes. They were doing things outside the automotive business that were profitable, and they'd still be at least surviving today if all their eggs weren't in the same basket.
  20. many times CEO's fly private for security reasons.

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