Hundreds Held Hostage in Russia School

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by amenasce, Sep 1, 2004.

  1. Unfortunately that isn't enough justification to send suicide bombers to Moscows subway system, nor isn’t enough to bomb two airliners and neither is it good enough to take hostage of a school's and music halls. Chechnyan extremists have all but killed any support the moderate Chechnyans could ever gather to actually help their cause. The only people who are supporting them are crack pot Muslim extremists using the Chechnyans situation to further their extremist’s desires.
     
  2. the bomb that was initially set off was probably detonated by remote and by a chechnyan. among terrorists there were some arabs. arabs know how to set up remote explosive devices and probably knew it was gonna go off at any given moment but used a chechnyan to do it. (those devices that were set off in the two planes were probably remote too. and the device that blew up chechnyan president elect a few months back. these are all planned by one group of explosive experts from middle east).

    that's why i think there was another person outside the building who either got away or got shot.troops should've stormed the place once they had a procedure plan. it's obvious that once negotiations drag out and terrorists run out of food or water they will start setting off explosives because there was no way they could demand food for everyone. according to islam you should feed your prisoners if you get food. so they'd rather kill them.

    russian government should ban arabs from entering chechnya for now and search for the cell.
     
  3. Why is there "no way they could demand food for everyone"?
     
  4. #179 adhweorniatweege3532323, Sep 5, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
  5. how can 35 terrorists with explosive belts and guns feed 1500 people. get real.


    here's the real reason- they couldn't even decid how to detonate themselves. they just positioned themselves inside the building at strategic points where they can do maximum damage to the structure so when they got blown up by a remote first they would block any intrusion by troops and second kill as many hostages as possible. these guys were heavy duty. they knew what they were doing.
     
  6. Well gee, if I were a terrorist I'd say, "We ACCEPT your offer to give the hostages food, and these two guys can go around distributing it."

    Get real, if they wanted to they could of.
     
  7. no they couldn't because they were gonna get blown up by the remote at any given moment and couldn't leave their posts.
     
  8. You're telling me they lack the organizational skills to figure out how to move a few people and do the exact same amount of damage?
     
  9. Well obiously you don't, since all you care about is carving totem poles and sniffing glue.
     
  10. I think if you read all the posts I have made, you will see that I completely agree. This has upset and angered me more that it probably should. I really can't see a solution in Chechnya by political or military solutions. It's frustrating, because I believe if something had been done 5 years ago, the situation would be completely different.
     
  11. "arabs know how to set up remote explosive devices"

    Every Arab knows how to set off remote explosives, but the Chechnyans who have been in direct action against Russian troops for the last 5 years have no clue? There is obviously a foreign influence in Chechnya, but the Chechnyans certainly have the ability to do these sort of terrible actions on their own. Don't be too quick to blame every terrorist act on Arab extremists, when Chechnya has plenty of its own Islamic zealots.
     
  12. 'Hostage-taker' interviewed on TV

    A man said to have been a hostage-taker in the bloody school siege in the southern Russian town of Beslan has been shown on state television.
    His hands bound, the frightened-looking man was shown being led by two hooded commandoes into a room, where he was briefly interviewed.

    He said he had not wanted to die in the siege, and that as a father, he had felt pity for the child hostages.

    Two days of national mourning have now begun, a day after the first funerals.

    Flags are flying at half-mast, and all television entertainment programmes have been cancelled.

    Authorities say at least 335 people died in the siege in the North Ossetia region, which ended in carnage on Friday, but correspondents say unofficial figures suggest the real number could be closer to 400.

    Claims about the number and fate of the hostage-takers, who were demanding Chechen independence, have been vague and contradictory.

    At one point the authorities said that all of the hostage-takers, about 30 in number, had been killed.

    The man who appeared on state television was said to have had shaved off his beard in order to try to escape with fleeing hostages when the siege collapsed.

    Asked by a state TV reporter whether he felt sorry for the child hostages, the man replied: "I swear by Allah, I did feel sorry for them. I have got children too."

    Asked whether he fired his weapon, he said: "I swear by Allah I did not shoot, I swear I did not shoot."

    But later, pressed by his interviewer, he became less coherent before saying: "In general, I did not want to die anywhere. I do not want to die anywhere."

    The man's accent suggests he is from the region and not a foreigner.

    Correspondents say the report's tone was highly triumphalist and ended with images of the corpses of dead hostage-takers crawling with flies.



    From BBCnews.com
     
  13. #189 BOBITRON, Sep 5, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Confusion reigns over the identity of the group who seized the school in North Ossetia, taking hostage more than 1,000 children and their parents and teachers.

    The official Russian version says that the hostage-takers were a multinational group linked to the radical Chechen rebel commanders Shamil Basayev and Doku Umarov, funded by al-Qaeda.

    Though some hostages are reported to have recognised Doku Umarov from pictures shown them by investigators, little other evidence has otherwise been produced to support the claim.

    Officials initially claimed there were nine or 10 Arabs among the hostage-takers - possibly in an attempt to back up their allegation of al-Qaeda involvement - but some surviving hostages have said they saw no Arabs in the school.

    Western experts say that allegations of a direct link between al-Qaeda and Chechen rebel leaders remain unproven - though it is well-known that the rebels receive funding from foreign Muslim sympathisers and that Arab commanders occupy key positions in the rebels' ranks.

    More at...

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3627586.stm

    It seems like the rumours about Arab attackers might have been a rumour after all. An accurate depiction of what happened may take a long time to develop.
     
  14. Funerals began today after Putin declared two days of national mourning, which I can't remember ever happening in Russia. A large feild was set aside in the city for the victims, and local people helped dig graves for their loved ones. People were allowed to enter the school for prayers, as it is a local tradition to pray at the place where someone died.
     
  15. From CNN.com, posted September 5, 0107 GMT

    At least 338 hostages, including 156 children, were killed after terrorists seized a school building and held more than 1,000 students and adults hostage in the southern town of Beslan. At least 10 Russian special forces also were killed.

    More than 700 people were injured, and authorities expect the death toll to rise as 447 people remain in area hospitals, 58 in very serious condition, officials said.

    Authorities said 191 people remain unaccounted for.

     
  16. You are allowed to defend yourself.

    And the police can get in trouble for speeding if not on duty or not in pursuit/going to a crime scene.
     

  17. "It's not like Chechnya provides a useful function"

    Oil and gass.
     
  18. You mum must be proud of you. Do you ever post anything intelligent or are you only like this when you run out of medication?
     
  19. The more time they took the more kids would have been tortured or raped. The stories are incredible. Bad enough for adults but unbeleivable seeing they were kids. Thes psycos must not consider their captives human to behave like this. So much for thier cause now. I cant see anyone giving a rats about the Chechins interest now. Especially if no Chechin representation condems this act.
     
  20. It appears to me that with the recent rampant terrorism and it's (ashamed) popularity in the media, anyone with a gun or a bomb or a cookbook for such things thinks they can get what they want if they are willing to die or kill for it. Saying nothing of my own experience or expertise, there's a certain amount of skill required, both political and tactical, in order to be effective when taking hostages. These guys apparently had neither. They gained nothing and they killed constantly growing numbers of inarguable innocents.
     
  21. The purpose of terrorism is to terrorize. What Number of casualties is acceptable to the general public? These guys gained something allright they gained the attention of the world, and the fear of countless people.Before this alot of civilians had no idea how easy it could be for people with weapons and will to use them to cause this amount of damage, and to school-goers at that. Tacticaly what did it acomplish? Not much. Strategicaly? Well it forced the Russians to second guess thier hard-line policy towards terrorist activity(which they should not have done).

     
  22. Somehow I know this already - that terrorism has a different purpose than taking hostages for negotiation - but there's no definitive line between these two, is there? Look at Iraq. Sometimes they kill, sometimes they don't. The reason I didn't immediately attribute this to classic terrorism is because the attackers had control of the situation, in some way. It seems they lost their composure, their plan, and their purpose entirely when they overreacted to a manageable event. Of course I wasn't there, so I don't know what happened exactly. Even the reports all have something a little different to say about what triggered it.

    About the second-guessing, I'd say the theater had more to do with their cautious attitude than this event did, but I see your point and I agree. To me it seems that their actions regarding these situations are reactive, though. I hope President Putin is serious and that he and the nation are capable of the proactivity he is proposing, although I'm not sure I'd like to see any country become another paranoid US.
     
  23. I would agree that the terrorists (and I don't drop that term lightly like George W) could have probably controled the situation better, and probably did not intend or imagine the events transpiring as they did. I would also say that the theatre influenced the decission, but probably not as much as a school full of kids.
     
  24. what kind of proactivity are we talking about?

    and at what point does it become "paranoid"? because obviously the threat is real and present, and is all over the globe. their point is to cause paranoia, so i dont think the rigorous response to it is paranoid, rather the reaction in spain and phillipines would be more appropriate.
     

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