is there any race BMW cant win?

Discussion in '1960 BMW 700 RS' started by 2998ccCSL, Aug 5, 2004.

  1. Re: is there any race BMW cant win?

    Hasn't BMW won F1 in the eighties? with Brabham in 1983
    and they have won the DTM with the E30
    LeMans in 1999
    Most years they have dominated the touring cars
    In 70s they were the kings in F2
    the M3 GTR was soo good (too good) that it wasn't allowed to compete anymore (thank you porsche! <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/cboardhtml/emoticons/sad.gif"></A> )

    I mean, it must be either porsche of BMW who are the best in racing
     
  2. Re: is there any race BMW cant win?

    Passion is for euro-trash who can't win races.

    It's what Ducati owners say their bikes have as a Yamaha R1 wheelies by them for half the price.
     
  3. Re: is there any race BMW cant win?

    BMW's reliability fell off in the late 90s and they are kind of garbage right now. The M3 you speak of had a problem with throwing it's connecting rods through the engine block eventually resulting in a complete redesign of everything below the head gasket.

    And as far as Z3s go, do you remember the one powered by the 1.9 liter 4 cylinder? It was described by most magazines as being dangerously slow when getting on and off the interstate.
     
  4. Re: is there any race BMW cant win?

    you can say what you want, but in the user satisfaction survey Top Gear the Z3 came in number 4 out of all the cars. and virtually all BMWs scored well (nrealy perfect) for reliability. whereas (suprisingly) the best placed mercedes came in at nummber 55 (out of 139)
     
  5. Re: is there any race BMW cant win?

    to YSSMAN:

    The comparison between a M3 and a corvette you mentioned, is a good comparison. The bmw has a great engine, i dont know anything about hte corvette you mentioned such as engine and so on and one, but ill just speak on the behalf of the bimmer. the M3's engine is a well engeenered and well balanced engine, which by my opinion would be a "better" engine, bmw's reliability is amazing, here in the balkans i see people driving cars as far as the 80's and 70's and they have no problems, reliablity. If american cars are reliable such as engines, then why is no one driving them, for the time i was in canada i rarely say any car below the 90's. bimmers are reliable and stay withing the pollution standarts, same with old W124 benzs. as the m3 engine problem someone mentioned about having the engine redone from the gasket below, i read on a magazine reviewing the m3 and the only problem the high tuned suffered was, that it drank a lot of oil, and you had to start your cars first then turn on all y our electronic crap. and i am sure that the m3 is a better drivers car. the M3 is also praised about its handling abilities by drivers around the world. Also on some C&D reviews that the interior was crap. overall id take a m3 over the corvette, plus if you would want to go on trips and still be fast you can take a m3 rather than a corvette. plus here in europe the vette costs way more. Even with a m3 you get a lot more stuff, if you consider it more expensive, nice audio system, cd player, navigation etc. I cant say anything about the other bimmers, other than that theyr 5 series beat a lot of american cars on this review that included A6 , E320, a 5 series i cant remember, a jaguar, lincoln, and a infinity. benz came in 1, then bimmer was 2, and then 3 was audi. the X5 is a good car too, they sound sweet when you suddenly hit the gas, its sounds like a quiet jet. BMW's quality is top and they are machines that are meant to last. For my opinion, american cars, cant make a engine other than a V-8, thus limiting their range for challanges, the M3 belongs with the C32 AMG, Audi S4, Porshce 911. Also i reminded myself something, a long ago, this import magazine, cant remeber which, but they took the m3 911 S4 and a Evo Lancer 7 and the evo cost way less, and had the same performance numbers, dont forget that the lancer will last the same because mitsus are reliable, on the performance category with 3000 in just suspension and tire upgrades the lancer killed the 911C (4WD) S4(AWD) M3(RWD) and all had way more power than the lil 4 pot!
     
  6. Re: is there any race BMW cant win?

    bmw makes top quality products, like all european products. in europe my friends you buy quality not quantity!
     
  7. Re: is there any race BMW cant win?

    That's exactly what i said... BMW just gave McLaren an engine... when I say "Bavarian" most people on here know what I'm talking about, BMW (Bavarian Motor Works). I credit Bel Ulrich with the Vanquish, not Ford. Ford provided the money but could've never EVER created something as great as the Vanquish using their house of so-called designers and engineers. No offense, but Ford needs to work on their products' quality. I would never credit Ford with the Vanquish. I believe the founders and that handful of Brits that made Aston the marque it is today deserve ALL the credit. But you are entitled to your opinion, and for that I'll take the high road and say, "Uh, dude... Thanks for your input."
     
  8. Re: is there any race BMW cant win?

    Yes, I agree totally. Those damn passionate Italians in their F2004s can't win one single race on the GP circuit. (Mmm, you can almost smell the sarcasm.)
     
  9. Re: is there any race BMW cant win?

    So what, either way Ducati builds incredible bikes which are among the best in the world. I would definitely take a Ducati 999S over a Yamaha YZF-R1 because what those Ducati riders say is true, Ducati's are built with a passion. But what the heck I'd take both bikes as both are very fast, awesome handling, incredible machines.
     
  10. Re: is there any race BMW cant win?

    Thank you. We need more people like you on these boards. You understand and appreciate that vehicles shouldn't be just about the numbers, but also about the... um... well the vibe they give off. I know that sounds cheesy, but if you've ever been near a Ferrari (or Ducati for that matter) you'll understand what I mean.
     
  11. Re: is there any race BMW cant win?

    It becomes obvious that you have no experience with any American cars, whether it be the Corvette or Mustang, etc.... American cars are (for the most part) designed to be bought and driven in the United States...Therefore, most Europeans dislike or vehicles for their "lack of refinement," "uninspired style/drive," or just the overall size of the vehicle. Vehicles like the Corvette dominate over the majority of it's competition because of it's PPD (performance per dollar). Take for example the new C6 Corvette. It is powered by a modified small-block Chevrolet V8, with 6.0 liters of displacement and 400HP/400 Ft.lbs of torque. The new Corvette has world-class interior pieces, great options, a class-leading performance. For about $47,000 you can get the Z51 equipped Corvette coupe (currently the top model until next year's 500+HP Z06)...

    Lets review the stats:

    2005 Corvette Z51: $47,000 2004 BMW M3: about $56,000
    6.0 LS2 V8 (400/400) 3.2L I-6 (333/262)
    6-speed manual trans 6-speed manual trans
    0-60 in 4.3 sec 0-60 in 4.8 sec
    1/4 mile in 12.7 1/4 mile in 13.6
    top speed of 186 top speed of 155
    EPA of 19/28 EPA of 16/24
    curb weight 3224 curb weight 3415
    skidpad of .98g skidpad of .88g

    Performance numbers all lean toward the Vette. The engine in the Vette is damn near bulletproof, going easily over 200,000 miles in other sister engines from previous years. Also, I would like to point out the fact that you can just about anywhere to get your Vette fixed...With almost 5000 Chevy dealerships nationwide. How many BMW dealers are there? Far less stateside...And chances are, it will cost several times more to fix your Bimmer as it would on the Vette.


    Comparing full size American cars to the European makes is a little one-sided. Until recently, Cadilac, Lincoln, Buick, Mercury, etc., couldn't build a decent luxury car that anyone outside the states would enjoy. Obviously, Caddilac has been at the front of challenging the BMWs and Benzes...The new 3.6 CTS, CTS-V, STS 3.6, STS 4.6, SRX 3.6, and SRX 4.6 have all topped their German and other European competition in recent comparison tests done by Car and Driver and Motor Trend. To generalize the American luxury car (with the exception of the Caddys and Chrysler 300), they are soft, and outdated. But, when you consider that the majority of people who buy these cars are of age 50+, that is what they want...A Buick Park Avenue with a S/C 3800 V6 that cruises like their Roadmaster did when they were in Highschool.

    About the Evolution... Is one of the best cars you can get for $30,000 ($27,000 if you get the RS). Evos are capable of beating up on SVT cobras, and that is something to e proud of...Considering that it is based on an econo-shitbox car...The Lancer ES.
     
  12. Re: is there any race BMW cant win?

    Yes, I know what that vibe feels like. There is a certain auora that surrounds a Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati, McLaren, Jaguar, Porsche, Ducati, etc. I have not been around many Ferraris (and who has) but everytime I have been near one I can just hear those spectacular engines revving. The cars just scream that they are something special.
     

  13. Re:
    is there any race BMW cant win?


    The corvette and the M3 aren't close to each other in performance figures, but put them on a track together, and the M3 would show the Vette where the extra money went. The comparison is also pretty askew, because the Corvette is GM:s top supercar, the M3 isn't even a supercar, it's a sports SEDAN. BTW - why isn't GM in Formula 1 anyway? Ford is (through Jaguar), Mercedes (and thereby Chrysler) is, Renault, Honda Ferrari and BMW are too.
     
  14. Re: is there any race BMW cant win?

    yea thats true what vr6 said. yea corvette is a nice car, but bmw is more stable surefooted and precise on the steering aspect, and i back that up by every pro driver in the world, yea the ZO6 is the supercar of gm's line up and the only car that american people are proud because of its performance compared to other cars. but the 1/4mile 0-60 is up to the driver, so thats out of the question. american cars will pull up high g's on the skid pad, but that to me is useless. here i will show you, in sport compact magazine i think, they toook a couple of supercars, among there was a 1000hp viper 98 i think, and there was a DSM/eclips 4wd with arround 460 hp, and it pulled out a 90-80's g but hte viper pulled out 1.00+ g's. but on the race track the viper was owned, so in the same place you can count out how many g's and hp figures, because its not hp and weight that determine it, its also the cars aerodynamics, its gear ratios, its weight balance as in left to right and front to back. the corvette is a great example of how american cars have changed from the mounstorus gas guzzling ways, and people would say well that car is 6l v8 and this one is a I6 3.3L(i think) and the v-8 gets better milage, of course the vee 8 isnt a high performance engine, its the inline 6 which is a high performance engine. same as in racing the engeeneers dont care about how much fuel its eats, as long as its not in high numbers, they car about the 'performance' in races there are displacement limitations and engeeners always try to get a car with a lot of hp/l. so there is a funny trend if you follow me, low performance engine, good milage, sometimes high/med lifetime because of less stress on the engine. high performance engine, gets ok/low milage, in some cases if its well built(m3)will have a long lifetime. Also you can see where the extra money always goes, in the cars reliability, its comfort and handling performance. americans find always the shortest way to hp numbers, high displacement. but eurpeans may go a long time with reasearching but in that time, they are willing to test the engine in its long term reliability. Both are good cars to drive you to work and one a weekend race, but i dont think the corvette fills in the handling aspect, plus there is also that new bmw m3 CSL which is a racing version kind of and has 360 hp and pulled out a time less than 8:00 minutes or the nurgburing nordslcife, and that was on street legal slicks. they were these special michelin tires built especially for that. For my opinion cadillac lincold make kick arse luxury cars. especially for puttin nice dubs and kick arse sound systems. also a good compare would be a lotus esprit with the zo6. peace
     
  15. Re: is there any race BMW cant win?

    Bmw always considers technology. even their 745Li uses high technology DI (direct injection). the german engeeners didnt use forced induction to get high performance out of their engine, like benz with their v-12 bitrubo. I europe there are a lot of old bmw's who have beaten time and are still very drivable today. Bmw is very reliable in everyday driving which doesnt includ beating the shit out of the engine. bmw has a nice line up for cars which give you a lot of choices. the only sad thing is that american's only have their v-8 as the most reliable engine in their line up.
     
  16. Re: is there any race BMW cant win?

    I've been around thousands of Ferraris... Join the Ferrari Club of America... It's fun. And although it's nice to own a Ferrari, it's not a requirement. I'm getting a 456M soon possibly a 575M and the Enzo when my friend pays me what I'm owed.
     
  17. Re: is there any race BMW cant win?

    yeah, me too.. nicole kidman said shed give me road head when i did.
     
  18. Re: is there any race BMW cant win?

    Technically, GM does have an indirect hand in F1 racing... That being partial ownership of Fiat SpA, which owns Ferrari SpA...

    Here in the states, the M3 is a sports coupe. They stoped selling the M3 sedan when the new "restyled" front end and tail went on it.

    GM picks its battles when it comes to racing. At the moment, lots of money is going into NASCAR (because it is the 2nd biggest sport here in the states besides the NFL), IRL, and they continue to forge ahead in the LeMans GTS racing. Given enough time, GM could very easily enter F1 competition... They have V10, and V12 technology on the shelf, and have a corporate partnership with Toyota, which could lead to a co-developed engine for later seasons (GM and Toyota are rumored to be working together on a Japanese version of the Cadilac V12 from the Cien/ Escalade-V concepts for a future Toyota supercar).
     
  19. Re: is there any race BMW cant win?

    How the hell is the small-block Chevrolet not a high performance engine? Although it has many heavy duty forms that exist primarily in the trucks and suvs, the LS1/LS2/LS6/C5-R setups are all about high performance. Money and development does not necessiarily make a particular engine great. Take the origional LT-5s from the first few years of the Corvette ZR-1. Although the engine was built for extreme high-performance, it was plagued with horribile EPA ratings, reliability, and extremely repair costs. Mitsubishis have had similar problems on their turbo I4s and V6s, as well as some Toyotas having issues on the new Prius' systems.

    Now, here in the states, there is no such thing as "street legal slicks" that you speak of on the CSL. You either have DOT legal tires, or you dont. Last I herd, the Z06 has held it's lap times by a high margain...As well as the CTS-V. However, it is quite funny to hear that a Porsche Caynne (sp?) Turbo can outrun it's sibiling the Boxster S around Nurmburgring...

    Either way, the comparision between the M3 and the Z06 still stands. Thats why Motor Trend and Car and Driver continue to make comparisions between the two cars. IMO, the M3 is greatly overrated, espically being priced at $56,000 stateside. But, what the C5 Corvette lacks, the BMW has... A beautiful interior that looks like it is worth $56,000... Obviously, the C6 has changed that, and the upcomming C6 Z06 will blow just about everything out of the water (plus, there is still the posibility of "Blue Devil" going into production, chasing after SLRs, Carrera GTs, and Enzos).
     
  20. Re: is there any race BMW cant win?

    Welcome to the Indies, where you can find a comparison with the ZO6 in every cars' forum *sigh*...
     
  21. argue argue argue is that all u do?
     

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