It's not all about speed

Discussion in '2001 Ford Mustang Bullitt GT' started by SLP CamaroSS, Oct 30, 2002.

  1. Re: It's not all about speed

    Why you feel the need to compare civics and vipers is beyond me. Sure it’s an ego-boost when you fly by an $80,000 car in your Civic but it has no relevance whatsoever.

    The Viper, beyond its performance, is largely an image car. When you roll down Miami in a Viper it says something about who you are. When it was designed, it wasn’t designed to be run solely on the strip but to satisfy certain other aspects that you would expect to get with a border-line supercar. The Viper, for it’s intended purpose, is an awesome car just as a Geo Metro is at what it does: fuel economy.

    If I spent the same amount of money on the Viper as I did the Civic, I guarantee I’d be able to crank about better performance. If I just played with the gear ratios a bit and slapped a few modifications on, I’m sure I can transfer the power that allows the SRT-10 to top at 190 and pull that power down to focus on it’s stock time of 11.77 [email protected]

    In a sort of a friend of a friend manner, I knew a guy that took a pos station wagon, spent a whole lot of money putting in a brand new engine, making it run off of jet fuel and a host of other customizations. It could easily match a Porsche or maybe in a Ferrari but does that make that pos station wagon equal to that of the Porsche? Hell no.

    Horse-power and 1/4-mile times do not constitute the entirety of a car. Just because those comments might fly with your import racing buddies does not mean you can get away with making such retarded posts here.
     
  2. Re: It's not all about speed

    I wasn't comparing them, I was showing how big of potential the Civic has, the viper is by far the better car. Besides, not only is it impressive, it's pretty funny too. Kind of like watching a Pinto blow away a Corvette would be.

    Well, yes, but that's besides the point, you wouldn't be able to say "I have a Civic that's faster than a Viper".

    $30,000 wouldn't do much (proportionally) for a Viper. No, of course it doesn't make the wagon equal to a Porsche, and I never said that the Civic was better than the Viper, I just thought it was a good example of the engineering for the Civic, when it can be that fast with a lot of it remaining stock.

    I know hp and 1/4 mile times constitute very little of a car, think about it, I'm a rally racer, the only problem is those are the things that seem to hold sway around here. And no, I don't have any import racing buddies, in fact all my buddies are mainly GMC, Pontiac, Ford, or Dodge fans, largely trucks. Most of them hated Civics before they met me, after I met them, they began to become impressed when driving with me (I'm pretty crazy, drifting anything as best I can when there's no-one about, though I've never been in an accident after 6 years of driving in the same manner - gradually improving my technique), provoking comments such as "are you sure you didn't turbocharge this car" (my car is stock), "my Fire-bird definitely couldn't take these corners this fast" (that was on a road I had never even been on before, with the passengers pretty much acting as navigator for me, there were 5 grown males in the car at the time), "WOW, I didn't know Civics were this fast" (I always grin at that one, it's not actually fast, I just know how to drive it, and they're not used to a car being driven to its potential), "you're a crazy man, but an awesome driver". That said, I've also had someone say to me in the span of 5 minutes: "Jade, you're the best driver I've ever met" (then a few minutes later, as I started pulling stunts - weight transfer - in an oddly shaped parkinglot) "Jade, you're the worst driver I've ever met" (sparking an uproar of laughter from everyone in the vehicle, including myself).

    Dude, I'm not a rycer, I hate rycers, I hate straightline racing, and I'm a driving enthusiast, not a car enthusiast (though I am very interested in cars).

    So, I suggest that you go back, and re-read what I wrote, with that idea (that I don't think a modified cheap car is better than a stock expensive car just because it's faster, and that all-round performance is the most important thing) in mind, before judging my posts.
     
  3. Re: It's not all about speed

    Sorry bro for being so harsh on you. I thought you were another rycer idiot trying to prove that Civics are somehow better than Vipers because "my brother's civic does such and such". I have a strong reaction to that kind of stuff. I have nothing against moding your car's performance but the ego and disillusion that goes with it pisses me off. I see people riding around with the impression that their civic with a new exhaust, header, intake, a few stickers, and of course a massive spoiler and coffee-can muffler makes their car a powerhouse.

    Most people on these forums, not barring myself, are idiots. Now that I know you aren't talking out your ass and looking at your posts in a new light, you talk some sense. It is pathetic how people can't look beyond the bhp and 0-60hp. "This supercar has 800hp! It must be awesome!" It's what you do with that horsepower that's important. For those of you still thinking hp is everything, just look at the Lotus Elise. The '01 elise, having only 122hp, makes an impressive 0-60 time of 5.7 with an inline 4! The '03 111R has 189hp and goes 0-60 in 4.7. Looking beyond that, it is a handling god (remarked as handling like a go-cart) and arguably one of the best supercars out there.
     
  4. Re: It's not all about speed

    Not to sound like the lone jackass, but when it comes down to equally good drivers, the one with the more power will likely win the race because power is basically the most influential thing. The two cars mentioned by arroz are only that fast in accelleration cuz of 1.) weight and 2.) gears. Gears can be altered here and there. So the truth is, power is the real deciding factors (provided both drivers are as good as each other). Likewise, if the cars have equal settings, it all lies in the drivers. My point is that cars arent "faster" because potential can always be raised, whether its by supercharging it, changing gears, replacing the engine, reducing weight, or other techniques. As ive said before, its all about who has more money and whos the better driver.

    Wow password, i never thought ud be such a good driver. not one accident in 6 years. Damn, over here in Cali accidents 24/7. yer lucky u Canadian bastard (lol), trafic must not be as heavy as in here. Sorry if i acted as if you were a rycer boy. Around here, anyone with a honda hatchback is a rycer boy who invests pointless time and money in improving a car that half the time will kill them. (As ive mentioned before, many a time ive heard of accidents where rycers were racing and one of them spun out and hit somethin killing the driver). Plus, theres the fact that their mufflers serve literally no purpose as they only make squeaky farting noises as they drive. Plus, when some of them have their bass up like hell...it just makes it all the more worse. If you were to live where I do, you'd hate rycers as much as i do.
     
  5. Re: It's not all about speed

    Thanks, to be honest, I have actually had two fender benders (neither of which were my fault). In one, I was inside my college, writing finals, I came out at the end of the day to find a dent running from my rear bumper to the driver's side door, that came to a total of $1,200 damage, the parking lot was icy, but I'm still not sure how someone managed to hit it.

    Another time I was at a stoplight in downtown Kelowna, waiting for traffic to go through so that I could turn right on the red. I heard a screeching behind me so I pulled forward a bit, then looked back just as a big white Ford F350 hit my passenger side rear fender, denting the panel and shattering the taillight cover, causing my car to bounce 30cm, he then proceeded to drive up onto the curb, and take off through the intersection, license plates were too dirty to get the number, so I would have had to make a claim on MY insurance (despite having several witnesses, including one from my hometown) causing me to lose my safe driver's discount.


    I have had a few close calls, but I always manage to regain control, and avoid the other vehicle or object.

    Now, it's true, traffic isn't that bad here (in all honesty, I'm not that great at city driving), our roads are difficult and a lot of people get in accidents after losing control, I'm just kind of naturally good at driving fast on twisty roads and in marginal conditions (hence, natural rally-driving instincts).

    Rycer's aren't that common around here, and when I see them, I give them shit for it, but I do see as many ryced out Sunfires, cavaliers, Integra's, and Mustangs as I do Civics.

    LOL, a friend of mine who just got his license and car back a few days ago (he owns a 99 Integra which his daddy bought for him, it looks nice, but has a ridiculous stereo, and I'm always getting on his case about it), anyway, during the time that he didn't have a license, I drove him around a lot, and he was quite amazed with how quickly I was able to drive out to Nelson (twisty road, speed limit of 90km/h, normally a 45 minute drive, I've cut that drive down to 15 minutes on a few occasions). Now that he has his car back, I think it was a mistake to drive fast with him in it, as he's been trying to do some of the things I've done (drifting on corners that are difficult to hit the right angle, entering exit ramps from the wrong end to cut down on corner angles - this is very risky, because there are only a few spots where you have a good enough view to see whether or not someone is coming, and he doesn't know when to look, and he's also been driving places too fast for the conditions - after seeing me drive on the same roads) without the skill needed to do it safely (it takes practice on secluded roads, I keep telling him this, but he doesn't seem to want to listen), and without the discretion one should use. The other day, on the way back from town, while riding in the back seat, I heard him say "I figure if Jade can do it, I can do it" to the front passenger, just after he entered the exit turn to get to our college road, a moment later someone rounded the corner, and he just about had a collision, instead of re-entering our lane, he swerved hard, lost control, we spun around, and just about went over a bank that drops 50m. I told him he had to look between the gap in the barrier before entering the turn, he just passed it off as the other "idiot" getting in the way, and not watching. He later tried to drift a corner, not transferring the weight early enough, spun the tires, got understeer, went wide, and just about side swiped the cement barrier.

    I don't know what I'm going to do about him, but I feel partially responsible for driving him places while using advanced techniques without making clear that it took me a fair bit of practice to learn how to transfer the weight correctly, and how to look for potential hazards. If he gets into an accident, I'm going to feel pretty bad. That said, this is a guy who got in 3 accidents, and had 6 DUI convictions before he lost his license, I've never had anything worse than speeding tickets (a grand total of 14 on my record, haven't had any in the last year, thanks to my trusty "safety" radar - i.e. in actuality a radar detector ) but I don't think I helped matters any by driving him places using techniques he's not accustomed to, with precautions he doesn't know to look out for.

    Because this is such a low density populated area, there are less people trying to be cool, and more people who care more about the performance of their car, and know how to effectively modify cars that you wouldn't normally see modified for true performance, which I think is the reason there are a lot of well modified cars ranging from Civics to Camaros to Impreza's, around here, most of the modified cars around here are legitimately modified, and it's not rare to see a Civic beat a Mustang, or a Datsun 710 beat a Camaro.

    Believe me, even though I'm not exposed to it so much, I hate rycers quite a lot, though I hate it more when I hear people criticizing Imports for being ryced out, when I see just as many domestics that are ryced out.

    Oh, as a humorous sidenote, two of those quotes I said earlier ("My trans-am couldn't take these corners anywhere near this fast" and "Wow, I didn't know Civics could be this fast") were from a drive on a road I'd never driven on before, I know I already mentioned that, but what I didn't mention was this: Two guys I knew through a friend of mine at my college, saw me at the bar I was partying at that evening (I was running DD that night, so I'd only had 4 drinks over 5 hours), after the after-party they offered me a 1/2 ounce of buds to drive them home, up what's called 6-mile, a road a little ways out of town that's so twisty it has a speed limit of 60km/h. They asked me to drive them because they'd heard through our mutual friend that I knew how to drive a Civic fast, so they wanted to ride with me, two other guys lived in the area as well so they came along too. It was expected the trip would take me about an hour, but I made it back to the after-party after being gone for only 20 minutes, spent the next hour partying before we drove back home at 5:30am. Anyway, I thought it was hilarious that for only 15 minutes worth of driving, I got a half ounce of pretty good indoor hydro. I don't even smoke buds anymore, so I ended up giving it to a friend, but it makes for a humorous story. Anyway, using the time taken to drive one direction, and the distance I'd traveled, I calculated my average speed, which worked out to be 120km/h (meaning at some points I was going as fast as 140km/h, and at others 80km/h), on a road that had a posted speed of 60km/h that I'd never driven on before, it was quite exhilarating.

    The point of all this, is that some cars that may not have a lot of power, can be driven fast when driven with the right style, and in fact have a lot of potential when pushed to their limits.


    In reference to your first paragraph, just remember, with drivers who are just as good, the one with the more power will likely win the race when the race is on a straighter track, but on a twistier track the car with less power will often win because it's often lighter with smaller dimensions and can go through tighter corners at higher speeds. I recall one video I have on my computer in which a modified Skyline with 500hp races against two modified Hachi Roku's (Toyota Trueno - AE86, pretty much the late 80's Corolla's) which have 276 hp and 289hp. Nobody would argue that the Skyline handles better, nor that it's faster, but in this case, the track is very narrow and very twisty, and due to the lower weight and smaller dimensions, both Trueno's pass the Skyline before the end of the race, and beat it. the Elise is very fast because it only weighs 700kg (the 340R is even lighter at 600kg, and faster with 190hp) is mid-engined, and is designed by Lotus (renowned for their suspension tuning and chassis design), and although it may often be slower on a more open, faster track, it will beat just about anything on a narrow, twisty track. So, driver skill, power, tuning, weight, etc. aside, the type of track will often also dictate which car will be faster, as higher powered cars are better suited for the faster tracks.
     
  6. Re: It's not all about speed

    no harm done, you have no idea how often I hear that, people often find out that I drive a Civic, and immediately assume I'm some rycer who doesn't know what he's talking about. It's precisely this that has made me grow more and more disdain for rycer's. It used to really piss me off, but I've grown accustomed to it, and whether it's on these forums, or in real life, it doesn't bother me so much anymore, I just let my driving speak for itself.

    In all honesty, when I first got my license, I did have rycer-like intentions, and when I got my car, it was in part because I wanted to do all the rycer bs to it, but also in part because I knew that with the right mods, it could be made into a competent performer, it didn't take me long to grow a disdain for those who modify imports to look fast without any real balls. Now, I don't really care what my car looks like, and I have focussed mainly on improving my driving technique, I'm at the point now where I can push my car to its potential, and I now need greater potential, in the next few years (once I'm no longer a "starving college student") I intend to get an adjustable off-road suspension, skidplates, and beef up the drivetrain to handle greater abuse and allow for greater control at higher speeds with advanced driving techniques, after that, I intend to drop the F20C (engine from the S2000) under the hood (with internal mods to safely rev up to 12000rpm) and turn it into an all-wheel-drive. There's no denying that I'd then have a true performer on my hands. By that point I intend to own a new car, and use my Civic mainly for fun, and racing events.
     
  7. Re: It's not all about speed

    Good luck to ya man. Being a college student, I am pretty much in the same rut you're in- viable aspirations but without any of the funds.
    Unless I can find a good car with a trade value of top ramen, I am pretty much gonna have to wait a few years before I can do anything. I am one step behind you though and don't have a modifiable car, unless of course you think an old Nissan Quest is the pinnacle of Import engineering.
    Maybe I'll get something really pos like a gas-powered scooter. Then I could slap some "vtec" and "type-r" stickers, put some homemade body kits on, tack on a spoiler to help me with non-existent top speeds, put an access of basketball-sized mufflers and then some fog lights... at least 10. Then, with a new air intake and header added, my car/scooter will be a beast- I will tell everyone it gives me an extra 100hp when it's barely even half that. Those farting noises you'll be hearing when I drive? Yea baby. Also, cutting the springs of my suspension so I can drop a few inches is a must. The lower my "car" is, the better my turning. It'll make me a handling GOD! Look out Ferrari, there's a new kid in town.
    See, I don't need to actually have a performance car; I just have to spend a bunch of money to make it look like it without any of the benefits of one. Ingenious.
     
  8. Re: It's not all about speed

    And my Mustang GT will still kick your @$$.
     
  9. Re: It's not all about speed

    for this car... if its not abot speed then what is it.. it doesnt handle good, look good and its not luxiorious.
     
  10. Re: It's not all about speed

    Actually, this car has atleast 10 more hp than the current GT model. So it's slightly faster. And its more of a reincarnation of a car in an aweosme movie "Bullitt". Go see it. It's pretty awesome.
     
  11. Re: It's not all about speed

    When you make a thread, members with more than 100 Karma will rate your thread a +1 or a -1. That's the only way to get Karma.
     
  12. Re: It's not all about speed

    Amen to that. I don't care if he didn't have rycer intentions, its still a civic if you ask me. and Password reading your sig, in what way is a mustang like a tampon. A Mustang Cobra, has 430HP (dynoed, dont argue with me ITS RIGHT)andd close to 500 lb ft of torque (Again, dont argue). I dont see how this is a pussy car. EVen the GT, has 260hp and 302lb ft of torque. And what does a civic have, 160hp and like 2 lb ft of torque, and i dont carve that its a 4 cylinder, i just dont care, a mustang is a good car in my mind, and in my mind, a civic is like a tampon, every pussys got one. And my mind is pretty genius.
     
  13. Quote from AMGpower:


    " -Made in the USA -

    I support the United States troops and our allies. Thank you for your sacrifice. You'll be home soon, victorious.
    HAVE YOU GUY SEEN WHAT4S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW IN IRAQ?is your mother or brother or sister gonna die there?NO,but it's some other"bad"iraqi people+children who are going to die there.what your govt.wants from iraq is OIL!!!Sadam is only a "justification" for that war!stop supporting a goverment that's killing people.the whole world is against the war and your acts create anti-american feelings.Just think about it and give peace a chance!!! "

    First of all, where the hell did this come from, and what the hell does it have to do with cars? I don't mean to be offensive, but it is just plain stupid and irrelevant to come onto a car forum and randomly bring up world political issus.

    Secondly, since it HAS been brought up, I have to say that I take the side of PasswordPlease. War is a negative thing, not positive. The purpose of entering a war should be soely for the defence of your nation, yourself, or allies. I don't dispute that life was no doubt not the best for the people living in Iraq under Saddam, but at the same time, the 'country' was not a direct threat to america, or any of it's allies to my knowledge. I can assure you without a doubt, that US did not go into Iraq because they felt bad for the citizens of the country. Countries dont 'START' wars unless they have some way to benifit from it. Please look outside the square, and think for yourself rather then just listening to the crap that is fed through TV. Ever since US went into IRAQ i was arguing with my brother that they shouldnt be, and he was arguing "do u want saddam sitting there with weapons of mass destruction aimed at us". "would you like to live under saddam" etc. I told him "belive me, thats now why hes going in.". Finally now he has understood and looked outside of the square.

    Theres are two big factors u need to think about in politics: secrecy and propaganda.

    If america wanted to go in and start a war, for it's own selfish reasons (im referring to the government, not the people - I have nothing against american people) do you think george bush would get up on TV in front of the whole country and give a speech telling them about it? of course not, because 90% of the population woul dbe outraged, there would be mass riots and diorder amoungst the public, and he would absolutely eliminate any chances of being reelected later on.

    It is debatable whether of not the people of Iraq are better off now, after the war. However, regardless of whether they are or not, the United States is NOT the government of the world. They have no right to belive they can govern the world, they have no right to decide "i don't like how this country is being run, so i'm going to invade it and ensure its running how i want it too run". If any country gets this right, then the entire world would be one, huge dictatorship. If Iraq as a country made any threats at the US or attempted to invide its shores (or its allies) then I would support the war with all my heart, but put simply, the purpose of the war was to invade, not defend, and that is something I cannot and will not agree with. If bush was genuinely so interested in improving the living conditions of disadvantages countries, he would be giving huge donations to poor countries where there are people dying of hunger, sending aid anywhere it is needed, and attempting to help countries in need in a friendly way. There are so many countries which are in similar states of rule to Iraq, and so many countries where the people are under just as poor conditions (if not worse) - so why have the US goverment waited until now, and targetted this one single country out of nowhere?

    As for the terrorist issue you brought up. Yes, perhaps Iraq is a terrorist threat. Hell, almost every country in the world is a terrorist threat. That means what? That you are gonig to have US invade every country in the world? Terrorists do not represent their entire country, nor the population of their country. Many citizens of countries just want to live in peace, and completely disagree with terrorits. Just because some country has SOME threat of terrorism, doesnt make it ok to start a war with the COUNTRY, invade it, and have hundreds-thousands of INNOCENT civilians killed as a result. Doing this is essentially going into a country and invading it and starting a war there for your own interests (that there MAY be terrorists there - shock!). To kill innocent people for soem unrelated cause, makes those responsibe no better then the terrorists themselves.

    Finally, no, I am not a greeny or a tree-hugging hippie. i really dont care about trees. Secondly, no i am not speaking out against the people of USA, or the soldiers who are fighting in Iraq (they are following orders, nothing more, and should be respected and honored for the sacrifices they make every day), but am speaking out againt the governments ill-advised and un-justified invasions.

    Put simply, the american government in my eyes it the school bully. Just because hes the biggest and toughest, and the rest of the school populations fears him, he uses this power to intimidate the weaker people in to doing things for him, giving them their lunch money etc. When they refuse to give up what he wants, he beats them up until they are crippled or agree to give up their 'treasure'.

    That's all from me on this topic.. and i still think it's quite rediculous that it could be brought up in such an unpolitical place..I also pity those who are so blind that they cannoy open their eyes, look beyond what they see, and try to think for themselves.



    As for the ricer topic - I also hate 'ricers'. Most of the time, i see a loud japanese car ripping up the street with an exhaust, big chromies, bass pumping, etc, and all I think / say is "what a sad f*ck"(apologies for the language). However, other times I see soemone drive past in a V8 (old or new), with no stickers, stock rims, thrashing up the street like an idiot, and I think/say the same thing. Again, sometimes I'll see a modded japanese car driving past with a REAL exhaust (i.e. not the $200 one from scum-auto down the road that just makes noise) a clean pain job, some decent looking rims, being driven decently, but a person who seems quite decent, and i think "thats a nice car"

    It's not about where a car is from, its about how it's done, how it's driven, and whos driving it. If I see someone driving like an idiot, putting the lives of tohers ont he road at risk, them im going to think hes a retard whether hes drivign a 1980s civic with pink pearl paint and 20" chromies, or a stock 2004 mercedes SL55.

    People have to understand that cars a built to a purpose. American cars are built to go fast in a straight line (in general). They are not the worlds best built cars, nor the best handling or braking cars int he world, arent exceptionally refined, and IMO are generally quite unnattractive and 'loud' to look at.

    Japanese cars are generally very efficient, pretty good at everything, but not really 'world class' in many areas. They are generally the best cars in the world interms of reliability and build quality, and efficiency, go decently in a straight line, handle well enough, brake well enough, and are quire conservatively styled.

    Euro cars are generally very extravagent, very stylish, and are almost like artwork. They have alot of effort put into attention to detail, are extremely refined, pretty damn good at everything, but you pay for it.

    Dont hate japanese cars because people rice them up. Hate the people WHO rice them up. How about that?

    Anyways, thats about all,

    Peace Out!

     
  14. Yes, we can govern the world. Cause we can blow the world up. I am not saying its right, but thats how it is in the world. If we wanna do something, no one can stop us. I think we should let people handle thier own business though.
     

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