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Discussion in '2001 Honda NSX-R Concept' started by amerikan103, Aug 9, 2002.
RICE ROCKETS SUCK ASS. GET A REAL CAR.
the most important thing you need for execration is a good power to waight ratio light cars with tiny 4 bangers can beat beat other cars because of thier good power to waight. a big heavy car with a huge v10 ex the viper makes up its waight with huge amounts of torque and horse power.
THE SAX your about the most polite person on this site(LOL). Don't worry though it will change(LOL again).<!-- Signature -->
Buzz Bomber I got your back. American cars suck balls and always will because american car companys use sloppy ass engines and do not care about the quality or the dependibility of there cars. Now in terms of power, american cars do crank out a shit load more power than rice. However asian cars focus on power to weight and not just the size of the size of the engine. Also alot of the American cars are still useing pushrod and dont even know what having a dual over head cam is.
i-Vtec or Vtec is a god sent and I bet that you guys that are into american cars dont even know how it works or what it does. I will take asian car over an american car any day.
thanks there mama. <IMG SRC="http://www.supercarforums.com/servlets/cMsg/html/emoticons/smile.gif"> gotta love a person who loves the ole VTEC. yeah, true, thats one thing i never like to start a discussion about, because no one but us sees the light. reliability. hondas typically are no.1 then nissan and toyota. of course, MB's run forever too. but none of them are american. and what I heard from an actual Jag salesperson here in Nashville, is that since Ford put their hands into making Jaguars, the cars are even worse with regards to reliability and strength. i dunno, but sometimes, if a car is DESIGNED in America, it is like a plague.
would i take a prelude with 90k mi? ABSOLUTELY
would i take a camaro with 75k mi? hayul no
and im sure ill get some comments like "my ole 'stang's got 439 thousand miles on it and ive never even had to change the oil. but i dont care. <IMG SRC="http://www.supercarforums.com/servlets/cMsg/html/emoticons/smile.gif">
Most races between cars are in a straight line and usually by the time you get to a corner the race is over and your braking.
You know what I think is MORE pathetic, is these wankers that buy their top performance cars and then drive them like their driving MISS DAISY. On the Gold Coast Australia is where I live and every FRI and SAT night(one day ahead of America) we race all night. I don't really care if I loose the whole point is that im racing the car and once the race is over we slow down becide each other nod and appreciate that we raced and someone won and then we drive off for another race.
Man my girlfriend has a ford that has a 4L inline 6. I bought a garret turbo bolted it all up and dynoed it at 311kw at the wheels(with engine work as well). Now the car all up only cost me $6000 U.S. dollars. It blew off stock wrx's, skylines etc. I know that the car would never match its class around the track but who in the F#@! races theirs around the track? Maybe a few but not the majority them they're there for straight line racing.
Like someone else said up there if a car is done right then it shouldn't break down no matter what model it is.
Look at all the AUSTRALIAN Supercars(if you've never heard of them tell me and I'll find a site for you to look at) they run 600hp N/A in some races that go for 1000km and never #$%# up once. These engines are chevs and fords all small blocks. They don't have the displacements of big blocks but still pump out shit loads of horse power.
If you look at rally cars they have twice as much torque as these supercars but the supercars have twice as much HP, so that means that we are all wrong in someway. But, we are all right in other aspects.
As long as you race it as hard as it goes then that's all that matters.
BB your honda maybe a little more reliable who knows, but just remember that when your doing services etc, it is going to cost you twice as much to do it. Someonelses turn to say their point. <!-- Signature -->
<!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from transamman</i>
<b>My trans am with a supercharger</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
First off what happend to the TT in your TA? did you realise that the story presented by you was actually unbeliveable shit? second off he may be wrong about the figures but if you take a STOCK mustang gt V a STOCK S2000 the Stang would have it's ass handed to it on a plater Think for a minute the S2000 is short (length and hieght) and areo dynamic, even Porshe is trying to adapt the VTec style engine! and the mustang well it does have V8 power but...................it's heavy it's not so aero dynamic and it's well much bigger, no one is trying to copy the useless V8's and up because it's not really smart, they are byproduct engines of the sixties and seventies, look at a well for arguement sake take a 1992 Civic Si (Cost you probly 5 Grand) and a Brand new Mustang GT (Somewere around 35 Grand) now you take that 30 extra grand saved on the car and use it for racing mods, that 5 grand civic will not only beat the Coveted Mustang GT but even compete with the Ever so Godly (Lauphing at my own stupidity) Corvette
Now tell me how can this be?
Answer Intellagence<!-- Signature -->
"a Brand new Mustang GT (Somewere around 35 Grand)"
Wow, since when did a Mustang GT get so expensive? A 2001 GT will set you back about $20-23,000. Or, for about $28-29,000, you could be driving a real car: A new Cobra (281 CID, 32 valve, DOHC V8). Puts out about 320bhp, or just under 300rwhp with 320 ft lbs of torque. All that transferred through a Tremec 5-speed to an independent rear suspension. Simply beautiful. These cars also respond well to boost. Add on a supercharger with about 9lb of boost and you can expect around 400rwhp. Don't take my word for it though, go check out www.corral.net and browse the tech aticles.
Sure, technology is great, but can you honestly say that you ENJOY the sound of a 4 banger? I think not. I'll take a V8, thanks.
<!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from amerikan103</i>
<b>RICE ROCKETS SUCK ASS. GET A REAL CAR.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE --> Ya'll FOKKERS don't know anything! 1.) Rice is the shit! MAD Acceleration and Phatty Handling... what's wrong with that??? 2,000 lbs. and 300 HP? C'mon all ya haters, 4-Bangers and V6's ROCK! 2.) As for American cars... absolutely PHATTY as well!!! MAD POWER, Phat looks - '71 Chevelle - Yummy... SS 454 Hella Speed and Hella acceleration... Each car is phat in its own way fools... My G60 VW Corrado is phat too... Supercharger 4 bangin'! Race me in a Beefed out American car I wil keep up, race me in a Civic or Integra and I'll whup ya ass! German's make BETTER Cars than ANYBODY! BMW 850 will smoke ya... FOKK YOU!!!<!-- Signature -->
alright then. i thought that i would start with a fresh thread to lay into a trans am. . anyway, the VTEC (or i-VTEC) doesnt produce torque?! that is the whole point. hondas, along with most small engines, cannot produce pop-a-wheelie (in FWD <IMG SRC="http://www.supercarforums.com/servlets/cMsg/html/emoticons/smile.gif">) torque. but what the VTEC does is produce a very significant increase in torque at higher RPM's. Look at the S2000. a redline of 9000? that would rip apart a GM Trans Am, or mustang GT, etc. and when you hit the VTEC mark, you are thrown back into your seat. sort of like a turbo without lag. if it has to go, then why is everyone copying it. Toyota's VVT-i, Fords ever-so-original Zetec, and VW has one too, i think. What is wrong wiht 290 bhp??? not enough. why do you need more? look at the lotus elise. only 200 bhp, and it has a 0-60 thats less than 5 seconds. dont think horsepower, think power to weight ratio. let those words stick. i would put my 2100 lb. civic up against your chunky muscle cars anyday. my 223 hp would tear apart your 300+. imagine a horse, running through the desert, hauling less than a pound racing yours carrying one and a half or more. multiply it...goodbye. and if VTEC produced 100 less lb.ft. of torque then 1)why sell so many cars with it and 2) that would make my previously stock civic have um... 12 lb.ft. of torque. hmmm...no. If V8's are needed so much, then in 100 years, bugatti will be left behind as we all hop in our 34 cylinder cars to be so very fast. look at the top secret supra (in a import car mag). they said something like "190mph, in 4th gear, and only at 8000rpm on a 9000 redline". well, they are going to break 220 easy, and thats out of a 2.2L FOUR CYLINDER engine. granted, with two turbos, but still. oh, and one more thing... low 12's with a supercharger? wow thats great...if you like being SLOW. my civic, with an Type R engine and some mods, will run in the low 11's at the track. ive done it several times, and thats all normally aspirated. so, bring it on. im right, and i think anyone with half a brain would know so by now.
okay, ill stop antagonizing and brace myself for your attacks (or praise).
First of all, an S2000 wouldn't stand a chance against a Mustang 5.0 in a drag race unless you rev it past 9000 rpm, even then it would get it's doors blown off by it, much more a brand new F-body. VTEC requires high revving to get any power, which in essence is pathetic. second, HP and power to weight ratio isn't the ONLY thing that matters. you can have TONS of HP and torque, but with out any sizeable rear differential it all pretty much goes to waste. and your 2100 lbs civic (there's a joke, you are telling me you managed to strip off 500 lbs) with 223 HP is STILL ONLY FWD and you would probably only be entering 15s. I've seen many a riceboy like you run that whilst dynoing in the low 200s. however muscle cars, usually weighing 3500 lbs, whilst pushing 400 Horses at the rear wheels running it through 4.11 gears would promptly DESTROY your civic. a car like that would be running low 12s if not into the 11s. it can do this cause while it's at 1500 RPM it's making 200 HP, while your civic doesn't make 200 HP until it hits the 7000 rpm mark and even then, it's torque is around 170 ft. lbs and it's on tiny tires with small FWD gears. and top secret supra? could you blow any more bullshit up our asses? I've got video of a 1000 HP veilside supra getting raped by a Ferrari F40. that wouldn't happen if it was a 1000HP Viper, which is one of the fastest cars in the world. I'd be happy to tear your 200HP civic a new one, it would be very easy to do, because I've done it before, very frequently, because idiots like you don't know the first thing about how a car works, you just spew out BS stats and numbers then put some spiel about power-to-weight ratio blah blah blah. if VTEC engines where SO good how come some of the best supercars of the world Koeniggsegg CC and Ultima GTR for example, use Ford and Chervolet V8 engines? as for the Lotus Elise being such a great car, perhaps you'd like to see a racing modified one get it's ass handed to it on an alpine road course by a Corvette.
scroll down a bit to the Elise vs. Corvette video. it's big, download it. then take your small engine loving obsession and cram it.
Hey 89formula350. YOU ARE RIGHT! This idiot doesnt know what he is talking about. Taking 500 pounds off a civic and having 220 horsepower is not possible. UNLESS YOU SPENT 30 GRAND! My trans am with a supercharger would probably run in the 11's because it would then have around 475 horsepower with an untold amount of torque. Look, the torque thing is very important, so the weight of cars like viper, corvette, trans am and camaro doesnt matter. THis large amount of torque launches these cars off the line and makes up for the added weight. These cars make torque and horsepower at low rpm and by the time these VTEC engines make enough horsepower, we are already done with the race. Peace
i am not a lotus elise fan, that is an example. i feel like i am talking to a damn wall. okay then, my civic, before i did anything to it, did not weigh um...2600 lbs. you are an idiot. a fully loaded EX civic only weighs 2400. before you start telling me about my own car, do some research. it used to be a civic HATCHBACK VX. which weighs less than 2200 stock. yes those muscle cars would destroy my civic if all road courses were run in a straight line. not possible transam? well, i did it, and i know a couple of other people who went even further. um...well the top secret supra exists...it was in super street or SCC magazine. i dont know what bull you are talking about, but its there. just like the void inside your head. yep, nothing about how a car works. every "BS stat" i put in there was true, and you can look it up, if you had the capacity to do so. its not all about going fast in a straight line. why wont you people realize this? what is so god-awful wrong about being a lightweight car with a moderate amount of horsepower. you all need to see a therapist or something because you are too violent over the whole thing. i have my interests, and you have yours. dont go talking about my rice rocket because i like it and it is efficient. 30 mpg, very fast, and only out of 1.8 litres. and if YOU truly knew anything about cars, you would agree with me on the importance of power-to-weight ratios. yeah, the veilside supra was "raped" by a mclaren and the F40. but that is out of a 12cyl and TT8cyl engine. i never said i liked that supra, i really dislike it a lot. oh, and high revving is pathetic?? what about a superbike revving up to 12 or 13k rpm and handing nearly every car that exists its own ass? why use ford and chevrolet V8's? because they are cheap as hell and need the work unlike the V8 in the BMW M3 V8. hell, i dont have anything against big engines. my mom has a corvette and when i lived with her i drove it all the time. fun as anything. so much torque it would throw my head into the seat. so NO, i wont "cram it" as you say so intelligently. i have my own interests, and i could never convince your bovine brains away from the "no replacement for displacement" philosophy. my civic ran 15's with stock engine bolt-ons.
you are all idiots and i feel like i am talking to people in high school. if i am, then im not surprised. dont come on to sites about an NSX and talk about your trans am, or whatever the crap car you have is. go talk about getting 3 mpg and having a hood as long as my car is. you rednecks know nothing about technology or the future. you are stuck in some strange time warp, and i wish you would go home
"peace". duh huh huh
i think what you guys need is a 3rd peerson perspective on things.... first of all, nothing is equal in the world of cars. If, and i repeat IF, things were equal, there wouldn't even be anything to argue about in the first place. there are two ways to make horsepower. the first is a large displacement engine, and the second is an engine that revs. one is NOT superior to the other. they are simply different means to an end. with the larger displacement engines, torque is a welcome side effect. and usually high horsepower is right there with it. but when you have a smaller engine, say 2 litres, you can't rely on displacement, so you rev the hell out of it instead. theres a 3.0 litre displacement limit in indy car, and they still manage 800 plus horsepower, because they rev to 13,000 rpm. so don't tell me reving isn't a legit way to go fast. if you went for a rip in an indy car, you'd probably piss yourself from the power. true, the vtec engines make all of their power above 6000 rpm, but whats wrong with that? i've owned muscle cars, and imports, and both sides of the coin were fast, but in different ways. torque is what pushes you in the seat, so you feel it more, but trust me, that little crx in the next lane will be right at your side if he's done his engine up properly. the acura integra type-r has the same quarter mile time as a 91 mustang lx 5.0, but wont feel as fast in the car, due to the lack of torque. any car can be made to go fast with enough thought and money. my mustang was nothing near stock, and i got my ass handed to me by a austin mini! i was embarassed until i talked to the owner, and discovered he was the same guy who destroyed my buddies supercharged 97 Z28 a week before. if you have a lighter car, you can get away with less horsepower, and you'll handle better, stop shorter, and get 30 mpg while doing it. all things being equal, lighter is better in terms of overall performance. truly fast imports are more rare, but give them a few years. muscle cars have had 30 years to refine themselves. if i had a choice between two cars that could both do the quarter mile in 11 sec. one was 3000 lbs, had 500 horsepower, and the other was 2000 lbs and had 300 horsepower, i'd go with the lighter one. but i am getting another mustang........ <!-- Signature -->
Well hello everybody.
I am new to these forums, and I am still very much new to cars, racing, etc., but I'm learning. I have been sitting here reading the posts on this site, noticing how the whole site is a big rivalry and argument between the different types/nationalities of cars. American muscle cars vs. Japanese VTEC vs. German whatever. But it's nice to see that some people have at least some sense in this place. I don't think this argument will ever get anywhere until people can actually get it past their own thick skulls to look at everyone's point of view and see the advantages and disadvantages (well, we've got the disadvantages part down pretty good) of all types of cars. You know, isn't it possible that it doesn't really matter what country a car is made in, that if it is fixed right, it will be a winning car? For instance, you could take one Corvette, race a Civic, and lose. Then the next day you could take that same Corvette and race another Civic and whoop his @$$? I mean, so far, I think I am seeing both people's points of view as reasonable, but because most of you guys are so immature and biased, you won't take the time to just accept the fact that other people have different opinions. So far from what I can tell people that like American cars simply like them b/c they have more of a 'fun factor' to them. High torque, high sense of speed, big classic American engine. Kinda gives more of a thrill ride. Just makes you FEEL powerful. On the other hand, people with import cars don't really car for that feeling of speed. Who cares that your car SOUNDS and FEELS fast, when you still are GOING just as fast? AND getting better gas mileage? Does anyone understand where I'm coming from? Please can we just appreciate the cars and stop pointlessly fussing, complaining, fighting, and whining over whether or not a different car could beat it of another nationality? Can we just accept the fact that there are different cars for different people and most of them generally can go the same speed, but with different side-effects? If so, I would greatly appreciate it.
I actually agree with The Sax.
Cars from different countries have their good sides and bad sides.
I admit that most European cars are great (come on, you have to consider about the price too).
Corvettes, Mustangs and all those cars are fast and they can really kick some @$$es on the road. However, it doesn't mean that Japanese cars like Type-R or something like that can't kick @$$es. Those cars are from different classes! I don't know much about racing since I only drive a C230 and ML320, which cannot race, but I do know something about cars. (and yes, I am still a high school student, so please forgive me if I've made any grammatical mistakes). As I've said in the previous msgs, American cars cannot turn that well, but Japanese cars (stock) can, and that's reasonable. If you've been to Japan, Hong Kong and some other countries in Asia, you will find out that you will not have much chances to floor the gas pedal and shoot out since the traffics are WAY too busy. On the other hand, there are more straight roads and less traffics in America, so people can just pump the gas and fire their engines.
So that's why Americian uses more gas.
But people DO race in Japanese highways at night, and they DO floor the gas pedal too.
But most people in Japan like to race down mountains instead, so that's why Japanese cars handle so well.
go watch Initial D
though it's just an anime and not too realistic in some scenes, it shows why and how people like drifting (with JAP cars) so much
I don't know about you V8 guys, maybe it is because I don't race all the time. A Mustang or a Civic can both do 90 - 100 MPH on the freeway. When you need get from point A to point B as fast as possible(not on the race track) it is all about how hard you drive your car, since there are other cars on the street and there are stop lights. So my point is that if you live in the city and just need to get around, a smaller car will do just fine. I don't see the point that some people floor their car when the lights turn green to get off the line as soon as they can, because they are going to be stopped at the next light anyway. If you race like that, any grandma in their caddy can arrive point B a few seconds later.
just my 2 cents
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<!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from shanebux</i>
<b>"a Brand new Mustang GT (Somewere around 35 Grand)"
Wow, since when did a Mustang GT get so expensive? A 2001 GT will set you back about $20-23,000. Or, for about $28-29,000</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
1. I'm Canadain and I live in a hick town were every thing is over priced
2. I do prefer the sound of an import the I4 vacume cleaner sound to the big I have a little penis so I gotta get a big car sound that a V8 makes
3. I live in a hick town all I hear about are rednecks (Trailer Park Trash, or what ever you wanna call them) talk about there trucks, TAs, Camaros, and Mustangs, Y not a real car like say ummmmm an NSX or a 300ZX or even the coveted Supra<!-- Signature -->
whats up with you!?your always making fun of American cars,well speak for your self,have you drove a viper,its about the best experience ever!
Buzz bomber, you tell them all! Not all Japanese cars are good(cuz I like Honda the best!). People keep saying that Honda sucks, and its vtec sucks. But if you check out other companies, you will find out many systems are similar to VTEC. Like the Ford's Zetec, Toyota's VVT-I, Nissan's VQ?? I'm not sure wut's the nissan's one is called. All( almost all) Japanese sports cars are for N1 races, not drag racing. If you have a dreamcast and have a game called Shutokou Battle or Tokyo Extreme Racer, you will know handling is very important. When you are driving at 130mph, you will find out ur muscle car cannot be handled, even there's no traffic lights, u will be probably crashing a car before u know. <!-- Signature -->