Original Koenigsegg prototype has V12?

Discussion in 'Prototypes, Concepts and Electric' started by F50Fanatic, Oct 31, 2009.

  1. #1 F50Fanatic, Oct 31, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
  2. where is raging balls when you need him
     
  3. we need him?
     
  4. Probably ended up being too costly to produce or something. They basically make their own engine now, but it was probably a hell of a lot cheaper to use that Ford block originally than an all new V12. I wonder if it was an in-house design or supplied by someone else.
     
  5. If I remember right the "V12" was an Italian designed flat 12 that was first built for F1 racing, But was later scraped due to rule changes.

    Koenigsegg bought it and made it in to a engine suited for road use.



     
  6. I read somewhere that the engine was indeed a Formula 1 flat-12 from Motori Moderni. The same engine was supposted to power some top-of-the-range subaru, too, or something like that.
     
  7. damn, the 'egg could have been so much better than what it is.

    in this pic it even looks a little ferrari 512 tr-ish, which is a good thing cos its like my favourite car ever.
     
  8. The first prototype used an Audi V8 and gearbox, but then Audi took a decision that they shouldn't sell engines. Then Koenigsegg began making business with Italian Motori Moderni about a flat-12 engine they had developed for use in Formula 1, but tragically the death of the company's leader led to the fall of the company. The production car CC8S had a special built V8 loosely based on Ford racing components.

    Koenigsegg still has a few complete flat-12 engines lying around.
     
  9. They should start building the Flat 12 in house and use it in their next car.
     
  10.  
  11. small companies making 100% custom engines usually ends pretty badly. Crazy costs & poor reliability usually follow.
     
  12. The engine is already designed, they'd just be outsourcing the manufacturing, and assembling it, which is no different from what they're already doing with the V8.
     
  13. the V8 is based on a well proven out design though. I get nervous when small companies try to use either very specially built motors (like this) or all in house designed stuff.

    companies like lamborghini had horrible reliability problems from their motors for years and years and years.
     
  14. #14 Tipo F130A, Nov 3, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    True, I looked up Motori Moderni, and while they have potentially good credentials, they don't have much history.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motori_Moderni
     
  15. No matter how you put it, that sounds like a certain bankruptcy to me. Or at lest a whole lot of reliability problems.
     
  16. #16 MooSquad, Nov 6, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    For their V6, they do. Minardi backed out from using the V12 because it was lacking power severely (500 hp) and turned out to be rather heavyweighted for Formula 1 as well.

    As for how it'd behave in a roadcar, I have no idea.
     
  17. #17 MooSquad, Nov 6, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    From that formula 1 rejects website, which is a joy to read http://f1rejects.com/

    "But from the beginning, the writing was on the wall. Boxer flat-12 engines had been used by Ferrari during their glory years in the mid-70s, and after that by Alfa Romeo in 1979-80. With a low centre of gravity, Chiti believed the engine would have aerodynamic advantages. Called the '1235', it was given its first shakedown in a revised Minardi at Misano in May 1989. Further testing in the dynamometer had registered an output of 417kW, and Chiti's target was 447kW, or 600bhp. By anyone's standards, this was a somewhat modest figure.

    Worse still, the engine, to be driven through a Minardi gearbox, weighed in at 159kg. Although this was only 10 kilograms more than the Ford Cosworth V8, when combined with all its accessories including its electronic engine management system courtesy of Magneti Marelli, the whole assembly was some 112kg overweight. Not only did this create a tremendous weight disadvantage, it made for a weight distribution nightmare, as all the additional bulk was towards the rear end. And, needless to say, it made the handling of the C3B anything but friendly. "
     
  18. Jiotto Caspita version from 1989 - has the same detuned to 450 HP engine and it behaves ok.
     
  19. The first prototype did indeed have an Audi V8 engine, although that engine was not intended for production. The engine planned for the production was the Motori Moderni 180 degree V12 engine. That engine was made for F1 and was intended to race branded as a Subaru engine but it was overweight and underpowered. Koenigsegg bought the design rights for the engine after Motori Moderni went bankrupt.

    The best way for Koenigsegg to make their next engine is probably by letting Saab Powertrain do the job, they have the equipment and experience required for such a job.
    Christian von Koenigsegg is also a board member at Cargine, they make a free valve system that earlier was tested at Saab until GM said stop, but now they are separating from GM and I think Cristian have a freevalve engine in his plans.
     
  20. what do you mean by a free valve system?
     
  21. #21 Innotech, Nov 8, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    they built the V12 in the Montecarlo Centenaire/GTB
     
  22. So, bottom line, K'segg never actually put a V12 in any, early or later prototype at all, right? Just the first with the Audi V8 and then the Ford MOD V8, right?
     
  23. In the 90's pretty much all supercars looked like that.
     
  24. Way back when cars were interesting.
     
  25.  

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