Palestinian islamists burn christian buildings

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by lizardmech, Sep 11, 2006.

  1. And I appreciate your input, 70CutlassSX, but I want to see if M4CK actually knows enough about the Bible to support his claim.
  2. #102 gempto, Sep 12, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    I think EVERYONE, not matter what their take on Christianity, should look into this man:
  3. Unfortuately, the statistics hold up under scrutiny. I'll let the C&E (Christmas and Easter only, for those who aren't savvy) slide and think only on the ones who consider themselves true believers of the faith. God, as was previously discussed, is undefined in our plane of existence. You cannot prove or disprove him. This makes for quite the logical hurdle. The watchmaker argument, or any such idea, simply doesn't hold logical water. You're explaining existence using a much more complicated and intricate manner when the simplest explanation (while not yet found) remains. I'd love to go into details about Occam's Razor as an argument against religion, but I'll save that for later.

    Religion isn't for the idiots of the world, it is for those who have differing beliefs than I do. But a great deal of people use religion for those reasons you mentioned above, and you must admit that in times of greatest need, religion does an amazing job of making people do what they previously thought impossible because they didn't believe in themselves.

    Christianity isn't going away (thankfully). People need hope and faith in their darkest hours. I've got enough to believe in outside of God. Atheists aren't shallow people because they believe in themselves, they believe in the inherent good and morality of humanity all of its own accord without a text or figure to say otherwise.
  4. Thats cool, skip around the issue.

    I know you can't answer back, so don't waste Internet bandwidth with more frivolous trite crap okay?
  5. #105 70CutlassSX, Sep 12, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    I've only had a chance to scratch the surface, and I agree with his message of morality - just not the source of it.

    Ninja EDIT: I'll research later when I'm finished with some classwork. Interesting man, he'd make a great philosopher.
  6. Cool your jets and answer the man. The question isn't hard.
  7. LOL at "Ninja EDIT"!

  8. You're one of the few who is good to discuss such matters with.

    I agree with some of your points and I disagree with others, but that's ok and I fully respect your position on the matter and that you've got sufficient reasons to come to the conclusions you have.

    I'm not saying atheists are shallow or evil or anything like that. Indeed, the capacity to bring abhorrent things on humanity has been wrought by theist and non-theist alike.

    But I don't believe in humans being "inherantly" good. That opinion has nothing to do with sin, by the way - just my conclusion based on observation.
  9. The bible is a totally redundant artifact to this conversation. You don't understand the perspective I'm looking in from becasuse you've never been allowed, or allowed yourself to detach from what you think is the logical explaination for everything.

    Its sooooooooooooo #$%#ing simple to comprehend if you'll think about it for just one second you stupid ƒuck.

    God put jesus on earth and had him killed to cleanse the sins of humanity.

    (Your) God wants us to devote our lives to Jesus and his teachings.

    In doing this (your) god will see that we love him and allow us to enter (your) heaven.

    If we choose not to devote our lives to Jesus, we go to hell.

    Its pretty ƒucking logical from any perspective. If you dont love jesus, you get ƒucked up by god and sent to hell. Hell is a shithole that none wants to go to because its so ƒucking bad.

    (your) God presents you with a choice. Do what he says, or get ƒucked up. Now, you can prattle off that bullshit about being allowed to choose, but what choice do you have? MacDonalds don't offer cyanide in place of coke with a Happy meal at macdonalds because they know that people wouldn't choose to buy it as a refreshment. The similarity between chosing to by cyanide and choosing to go to hell is the same context.


    Shut the ƒuck up.
  10. He really is a brilliant guy. He does a lot of lectures around the world on various matters and has discoursed with many a philosophy professor and their students <A BORDER="0" HREF=""><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="pitlane/emoticons/wink.gif"></A>. I have a few of his talks myself and the are great.

    Yeah, I'm a work so don't have stacks of time myself hehe.

    I hope you find it interesting/helpful. <A BORDER="0" HREF=""><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="pitlane/emoticons/smile.gif"></A>
  11. #111 mclaren777, Sep 12, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Wow, not only did you fail to support your claim, you also showed a clear ignorance of biblical salvation.

    Would you like to try again, or do you give up?

    And here's a little gift to help you out:
  12. I believe humans are, in part, inherently good. If we were inherently evil, then the presence of good makes no sense, and if you argue it is through God, then I find logical fault. Altruism does not exist entirely in my opinion, however, I suppose there is an element of the ego that is appeased by pleasing those around us with good acts. So perhaps we aren't inherently good, but we sure do act that way.

    Abhorrent things, unfortunately for those of faith, are often caused in the name of deities who probably wouldn't condone their actions. God would not condone the crusades, and Allah wouldn't condone terrorism. I think that level of evil is just a chemical imbalance, regardless of faith or credo. However, God can be used as a justification very easily for human faults, and perhaps if predestination is true, he is to blame. But that's a different story.
  13. I love it that we have two different people having two separate arguments. <A BORDER="0" HREF=""><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="pitlane/emoticons/grin.gif"></A>
  14. #114 70CutlassSX, Sep 12, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Go easy on the kid, he's not sure what he believes in. That's the problem with most atheists - they don't know what they mean to say, just that there is no god plus a bunch of swear words. It's like logical diarhea.
  15. #115 M4CK, Sep 12, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Sweet. so you're saying I don't have to even acknowledge Jesus and I go to heaven.

    "One way ticket to heaven please."

  16. Fair enough. M4CK has proven my point so I have no problem dropping it.
  17. No, he's saying that you must belive in Jesus and you go to heaven. Christianity has been around for nearly 2000 years now, you'd figure that'd be common knowledge.

    Let me give you the run down - Jesus died on earth for your *censored*ups, to give you the opprotunity to go with him. Where you go from that point is up to you (free-will) or God (predestination). It's a simple concept. Just lead a life as Jesus did and you get to go to eternal bliss or whatever it is that makes you most happy. So long as its rated PG.

    That's what Christians believe in. It's a simple concept. You had sin, because the gullible #%[email protected] picked up some apple from Samuel L. Jackson's worst nightmare. Now you don't. Enjoy the wine and crackers.
  18. No, you got own3d again, and have no arguement to say that you're not forced into bondage with god.

    I'd really like to smash some of the teeth out of your mouth. Just a couple, you know, give you a taste of reality.
  19. Yeah, he disagreed, so you'll smash his teeth out. Sounds like a logical progression.

    Seriously, you're not helping my cause here.
  20. Oh man, you and I could talk for hours lol. <A BORDER="0" HREF=""><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="pitlane/emoticons/smile.gif"></A>

    I more tackle the inherant nature of people (either good or bad) based on the fact that often people think we're inherantly good based on what they see in their nice middle-income western neighbourhood and little else.

    I think humans occupy both good and evil (whether or not you take good to be from God and evil from Satan or not), as opposed to being singularly of one inclination or another. I see it based on the fact that humans, irrelevant of theistic persuasion, have shown they have the capacity for both in the extreme.

    You are fully correct in humans using evil in the name of the god whom they serve - be it the christian God, Allah, whoever. As an ex-christian you know aswell as I do that such evil is not something condoned by God.

    As far as the predestination debate goes - I'm not sure we'll ever see an end to that one.
  21. Jesus was a carpenter and a political activist who pissed a lot of jews off.

    Is that enough?

    Cause thats what I believe.

  22. don't you mean "prepared to get baptised and/or saved?"

    crucifiction is what the romans did!
  23. I think it might be more biological - we need good to evolve our species and better the human race. The evil just comes from our nature as animals. We're aggressive, territorial, and just all around not pleasant. So its a constant battle between the two, day in and day out, and our decisions reflect just which instincts we decide to follow. I've seen a lot of neighborhoods, been in some rather unpleasant ones - and the most interesting part of it all is that the children playing in dirt roads living in what would make a cardboard box look modern and accomodating are just as happy as those children playing in the park next to the $10,xxx,xxx homes. There is a good inside all of us when we're children - whether that's internal or from a deity is for us to decide. Whatever makes us not lose that internal goodness can't be all bad, regardless of logic.
  24. I thought you were midnightdorifto. What happened to
  25. I can see your conclusion and considering your theistic beliefs, needless to say it's understandable you think that.

    Also needless to say, I don't share your view on the matter. <A BORDER="0" HREF=""><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="pitlane/emoticons/wink.gif"></A>

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