Re: 2003 SVT Cobra vs. The BMW M3

Discussion in '2003 Ford Mustang SVT Cobra' started by Cobra Man, Aug 9, 2002.

  1. "America has a long way to go before they become anywhere near the greatest country on earth in designing cars."

    What did you mean by that statment then jackass...? Your point is that your a moron.
  2. I meant that - America is not the "greatest country on earth in designing cars", nor is any other country, perhaps the way I worded it made it seem like I meant that American design is inferior, however that is NOT what I meant.

    Anyway, in one post you said that American design is the greatest country for designing cars (feeling patriotic, are we?), shortly after you said that all designs have their strengths and weaknesses, isn't this a contradiction in terms? which is it? or have you just made a complete turnaround?

    BlackWidow - what made you think that I have any more preference for the Skyline over any other of the examples I brought up? Anyway, those were just the first three examples that popped into my head, and there are commercially available modified versions of all three of those cars that can outdo the Hennessey Viper.

    BTW - the Skyline is not so overrated as so many North Americans seem to think, not nearly so much as the Hennessey Viper.

    I have no more problem with American cars being turbo/supercharged than I do with any Foreign car being turbo/supercharged, there's no problem with it at all. However I do find it laughable when people claim that a car for which better performance has been proven, can not be as fast just because it uses a smaller displacement engine. those are the people that claim "5.6liters, there's your power" not realizing that displacement is no real indicator of power, for crying out loud, my dad's old Parisienne had a 6.3L V8 engine that produced a mere 160hp! that's only 30 more than my 1990 Civic SI with a 1.6L I4! And the Civic weighs less than 1/3 the weight of the Parisienne.
  3. "Anyway, in one post you said that American design is the greatest country for designing cars (feeling patriotic, are we?), shortly after you said that all designs have their strengths and weaknesses, isn't this a contradiction in terms? which is it? or have you just made a complete turnaround?"

    What post was that moron, because I don't remember saying that. Next time you post something (anything) why don't you stop pulling it out of your ass like you usually do.
  4. "America is still the greatest country on earth when it comes to cars."

    oops, sorry it was BlackWidow that said it, there were so many different posts over a short time that I didn't want to go back to check, I thought it was you because you responded to my response.
  5. "America is still the greatest country on earth when it comes to cars."

    oops, sorry it was BlackWidow that said it, there were so many different posts over a short time that I didn't want to go back to check, I thought it was you because you responded to my response, it seems like something you would say, I apologize.

  6. How does the mustang GT come from the factory "ryced out" moron...(it's in your sig)?
    Let's see, 17 inch wheels, no crappy body kits hanging on by 1-2 bolts, 260hp and 305lb-ft of toruqe stock, etc...where is the ryce at really?
    If you want to talk about ryced out stock vehicles then look at the toyota celica special edition, the rsx special edition, and some others, not the mustang by a long shot.
  7. Ok - The Mustang GT has a completely NON-FUNCTIONAL, STRICTLY ANESTHETIC hood scoop, and NON-FUNCTIONAL, STRICTLY ANESTHETIC side air vents, both of which are blocked off by a black plastic sheet. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that the very definition of ryce?

    I mean, aren't side skirts and huge non-functional spoilers exactly what you refer to when you whine about "rycers"? There's absolutely no difference between the drag inducing, fake hood scoop and air vents (which by the way, would constitute a side body kit), and the huge drag inducing wings on ryced out imports, in both cases, it hinders performance just so it'll look faster.

    On the other hand, the Celica comes with a functional hood scoop and spoiler, whereas the RSX comes comes with a functional spoiler, how are either in any way ryced out?

    Don't be a hypocrite!
  8. Mustangs have been like that for 40 years.
  9. Um...didn't older generation Mustangs have functioning hood scoops?
  10. Some, but not all. The GT-350 and GT-500 had funtional hood scoops, along with the mach 1, but the other ones just had non functional scoops.
    Now when you talk about ryce you have to remember three things kid, one non functional, two decreasing the overall looks of the vehicle, and three the added pieces overall fit and finish is almost always bad. There is a forth and that is most ryce belongs to small economy cars (it doesn't have to, but they are cheaper and more kids can buy them).
    Now of all those things the only thing on the mustang that fits that desricption is the non funtional scoops, but they are not overdone (huge and non form fitting) like most body kits are.
    Ford was looking for a little retro look with this mustang (the 99+), so adding those scoops was a step in that direction. If you look at the newer mustangs you will see alot of the lines and curves that made the older mustangs so popular.
  11. Man are you people stupid!!

    Hi!! I'm an idiot who wants to compare a $50,000 world-class touring car vs some American Iron Blue Oval quickly threw out so they can appease the hungry boy racers. Please. We all know the E46 (?) M3 can beat the new Mustang Cobra. Who gives a damn about quarter mile times!? Only in America. Jeez, don't you people know that roads have curves in them!? You people that are only biased towards American cars, or any country/continent for that matter, should shut the hell up about America or whatever being the best. Maybe if the Mustang was a more refined, high volume low price kind of sports car, then maybe, just maybe it would stand a chance against the M3. Otherwise, you're comparing apples to oranges. First of all, the Cobra is still as polished as a piece of rust, no matter how you look at it. Ooh looky there dad!! The new Cobra has a new front fascia!! You dumbasses are so easily impressed by looks and spec sheets that you fail to see anything that's not on the surface of the machine. Remember there's an engine under that pretty looking car. Mustangs are a poor man's track car. Maybe someone should tell them that they should not have wasted their money on such a piss poor machine. The M3 on the other hand, is a thouroughly massaged German car that was made for racing, and by racing I mean the circuit, not the redneck/Honda lover/confused white people infested dragstrip. The dragstrip gets old after so many runs. All I see now in magazines is, "This car runs a 12.00." What ever happened to measuring lateral g's, or specific output per litre, or power-to-weight ratio? That's right. Because American companies are so ashamed at the numbers that their cars pull off that they only print hp, torque and quarter mile times, the three things that Detroit Iron was always known for. It will take 7 generations to build a musclecar that can bring down the powerhouse cars of the world. So far, only the Corvette and Viper have pulled off something like that. But, keep in mind that the Corvette and the Viper are expensive, and are therefore real sports cars, as performance and price are directly proportional. Ford is so technologically behind, well, except for their hydrogen fuel cell car that they made jointly with TOYOTA, as Ford's R&D engineers are so stupid they couldn't even put together a child's Lego set. Whatever happened to engineering an American car, with the exception of the Corvette and Viper? Oh yes that's right. All the other American psuedo-sports cars come out of a cookie cutter so they can be for "everybody." You know what I think? Sports cars shouldn't be for everybody. They should only be available to people who can actually afford them. Screw ecomonic equality. It is because of economic equality around here that crappy "sports" cars keep getting manufactured. And the Cobra is no exception. Besides, Ford doesn't even have the pair to develop a new motors. They waste all of their time designing moving living rooms (SUVs) and trucks. Oh yes and let's not forget minivans, our dear, dear friend. And what's the deal with the Mercury Marauder!? Who gives a shit about that car? What Ford should have done was re-make the Cougar. Maybe I should be a Ford engineer. I do know what 1 + 1 is. Cobra, no matter who you go up against, you're just going to get pimp slapped by every competing sports car. Sorry Ford. You didn't win the war like you thought when you put the F-Body out of production. I hope someone wakes me up from this horrible 4.6 litre coma...
  12. Well, those "little body parts" may not be as drastic nor as much ryce as a 5 foot wing, but on the other hand, no car comes from the factory with a 5 foot wing (yes I know about the Focus FR200 Concept - or whatever it's called, it's not that important to me), whereas the GT is still the only car that comes from the factory with "ryce" features attached to it.

    Good point, however even though the Celica's air intake isn't nearly as functional as it could be, it still serves the secondary purpose of cooling the engine, which saves it from being ryce. Even if the intake isn't right near the hood scoop though, the hood scoop does create more air flow under the hood, which makes the air moove around faster which does create more airflow resulting in better air circulation under the hood, so it still serves the purpose of getting more cool air into the intake, just not nearly as much as it could.

    Edit: also, the Celica's hoodscoop doesn't hinder performance, as it doesn't induce drag.
  13. Again you're wrong. The celicas wing on the special edition is huge, and adds nothing other then image or looks to the car. There are many cars that are ryced from factory, the mustang gt is not one of them.
  14. Show me an example of this Celica that has a "ryced out" wing on it.

    Please explain how the GT is not ryced from the factory.

    The hoodscoop and side vents induce drag thereby reducing performance, they're there for looks, they look ugly, they try to make the car look fast. That is nothing other than RYCE my young grasshoppa.
  15. Thats the one.
  16. Well I was just reading up on it, couldn't find the SE specifically so I didn't post a picture, but that's the same look as some of the GTS versions I was reading about, and from what I read it can be concluded that it was added for nothing more than "ryce" purposes, however there were indications that it was added for the added benefit of stabilizing the car at higher speeds (the exact words were "...the optional spoiler adds a small degree of downforce, making the car more controllable at higher speeds"). And the car has a top speed of over 150mph so a spoiler could very well help at those speeds if it's designed properly, so I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree, that spoiler doesn't constitute ryce as it helps performance. The Mustang GT remains the ONLY car that comes ryced from the factory.
  17. Lets see (I understand that you're grasping for straws right now, like always), other then three scoops, nothing else is ryced on it, and even those three scoops aren't really ryce kid, they are paying respect to the older mustangs that had them. Can you not read, I already explained this moron.
    Another rule of thumb when dealing with ryce is performance. Most cars that are considered ryce are slow. I don't really consider 13.7 in the quarter mile and 5.4 seconds to 60mph slow.
    When you have a real argument come back and we'll talk then. Until that time stop being a dumbass.
  18. I'm not grasping for anything, nor have I ever.

    I never meant that the GT is totally ryced out, I just said "ryced out" because the only alternative was to say " the only car that comes with parts that are ryce on it" which would lead to confusion for some people and would then make the sig lose its effect.

    Kid is what you call your 12 year old "girlfriend" you have handcuffed to your bed at home, I on the other hand am old enough to legally drink in your country, and (apparently) far more mature than yourself, so you're only making yourself look even more the fool by referring to me as "kid".

    Those three scoops are ryce no matter how you look at it, and if you're going to use that excuse, then wouldn't it be better if they had the scoops functional? for the side ones they could open them up, and add vents in the rear bumper to vent air out the back and reduce drag rather than having the air catching in the rear bumper, that would be a far more efficient design, don't you think? Anyway, if you can say that, then I could say that all the rycers out there are paying homage to all the j-spec class racecars held in Japan for their GT championship (or any other form of GT race for that example), see how dumb that sounds? It sounds no less dumb for the Mustang GT.

    There is no rule of thumb regarding the term ryce. A lot of cars that are considered ryce are pretty quick, however they're still ryce because the rear spoiler induces drag, the body kits add weight (though minimal) and don't improve aerodynamics, the lowering springs don't always improve handling, the huge exhaust tips alter the backpressure, these are just examples. The only cars that are ryce and are also slow are the one's that can be said to be ALL show and NO go. Basically the cars aren't maximized for performance, because the Wings, etc. reduce performance, which is no different than the Mustang GT.

    Um you must have gotten things confused earlier because in the WRX vs Mustang debate earlier it was shown that the GT does 0-100km in 6.1 seconds (you didn't show me a faster time) while the WRX does it in 5.4.

    I'm not being a dumbass, you just don't like the fact that while you regularly bash Japanese imports for being ryce, the only car that can be found like that from the factory is your own lovechild found on your home turf.
  19. You're still arguing about the wrx vs mustang gt moron. They both do 0-60 in 5.4 seconds, the quarter mile the mustang wins doing it in 13.7 while the wrx best has been a 14.1, period, end of topic.
    I also don't bash imports on being ryce, the only ones that are ryce from factory are the celica and a special edition rsx(imo). The only other time imports are ryce are when their young drivers do it themselves (actually they usually pay somebody to do it for them), and domestics are also ryced out by their young and stupid owners.
    I say the scoops are paying respect to the older mustangs because the older mustangs also had NON FUNCTIONING scoops. I'm pretty sure that the j-spec racers scoops are functional, while most (almost all) ryce on the roads are not.
    You're still forgetting one major rule for a car to be considered ryce, it's almost always blown out of porportion (HUGE wing, HUGE scoops, HUGE wheels, HUGE decals, etc...), the mustangs scoops fit the body lines perfectly.
    And last kid, your 12 year old sister said she was 18, but don't worry I didn't touch her, not after she told me how you and her love anal sex so much...
  20. Um....from all that was posted earlier, the GT was much slower than you now claim, show me a source that says otherwise.

    I disagree about the part about ryce being blown out of proportion, that's just one of the things that's a source of a great deal of humour, not necessarily a defining characteristic.

    I don't have a sister.
  21. And I don't have a 12 year old girlfriend.
  22. lol, you're right in this case.

    In a very convoluted manner I was trying to say that it's all subjective (what's ryce, what's not, though to say any Japanese car comes from the factory ryced out, it would then be pretty ignorant to say the GT is not, and visa-versa). Unfortunately the message was lost in the poor, bluntly worded posts I made.

    I'm just disagreeing because I see absolutely no difference in a huge drag inducing wing that's there for looks being ryce and a drag inducing non-functional hoodscoop being ryce, the only difference between the two is the degree to which they are ryce. But as so many "wise men" have pointed out in these forums: ryce is ryce, so if this is true, then the degree of ryce factor should bear absolutely no relevance.

    IMO - the GT isn't a bad car, but when I see people capping on Imports for being ryced out, it just makes me want to point out that Japanese cars rarely come from the Factory that way, while a mass produced, American car does. I finally decided to just add it to my sig, it's useless pointing it out time and again (this forum isn't so bad for it).
  23. Yep, to the last part.

    But for the GT (perhaps it's just the one's sold in Canada, I've checked them out and am 100% positive, couldn't believe it at first, but I checked very thoroughly and it definitely does not have air coming through) the Hoodscoop is sealed, it's filled with plastic to keep air from getting in, so perhaps it's just a Canadian thing, perhaps it's not, but if it is just on Canadian models, then it's just the Canadian one that has a "ryced" hood scoop.

    Does that Cavalier have the RAM AIR hood for looks, or is it actually there for performance?

    P.S. I hear so much about RAM AIR hoods, but I'm not really sure what they are, could you please explain what it is exactly?
  24. You are correct on that, the mustang gt's hood scoop does not let air into the engine. Alot of mustang owners cut the hood and talk the plastic out, but it's not their from factory. The caviler i think (I could be wrong don't really get up to date info on it) is also fake, and does nothing other then sit their.
    The ram air on some cars like the firebird ws6, camaro ss, and mach 1 allow air to enter from a hood opening (the grill for the ss) to catch more air, more air equals more power. Some people call it a poor mans supercharger. The faster you go, the more air is forced into the engine, making more power.
    Others (like the scoops on the 2001 mustang cobra, wrx, 2003 cobra, etc...) just let cool air into the engine compartment to cool it down, and/or to let hot air out to cool down the engine.
  25. Except a major flaw in this idea is fluid dynamics, the air density factor, Rho, and the venturi effect on relatively flat angles of attack. It only becomes truly effective (as in an addition of 10HP or more) when the scoop's area is more than half a square meter and at speeds of more than 200kph.
    The only thing it REALLY does is promote a flow of cooler air to the engine, which at low speeds does more to aid HP than does the "pressurization" of air.

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