Re: I hate this car.

Discussion in '2000 Hennessey Viper Venom 800TT' started by hennesseyms, Aug 9, 2002.

  1. You're just mad that this is da best!<!-- Signature -->
     
  2. #2 SvSi Viper, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from LanciaDeltaIntegraleS4</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from hennesseyms</i>
    <b>(Lancia) www.hennesseyms.com if you want proof, and
    www.motortrend.com/june01/ttviper/ttviper_f.html

    This car is the best accept the loss and move on sucka'</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    You guys are pretty trusting. I've already looked at the MT article and I've already posted on it, so go back an read what I said if you're curious.

    As for the Hennessey Motorsports site, let's see...the 650hp Viper is $165,450, so it's hard for me to imagine that the price of the top-of-the-line 800TT would be less than that. Also, note that under the "$55,000" price for the 800TT conversion, Hennessey says, "Note: Pricing and product content subject to change without notice." You would be comfortable sending your $90,000 car to a stranger in Texas along with a check for $55,000 and the hope that he'll have your car ready in about three months? What if he calls and says, "Well, we've got your car apart in my shop, but I'm going to need another twenty grand to finish the job. You can't get it because it's in pieces and I have already started work, so by stopping work now, you'd forefit the original $55K and your car would be the same, assuming I don't screw it up?" Sounds pretty fishy to me.

    Oh yeah! "Note: HMS also recommends that Venom 800 Twin Turbo owners consider upgrading their suspension, brake and aerodynamics systems. Contact HMS for scheduling details." That means that, in addition to the $55,000 for the ENGINE, you'd have to dish out some extra cash for the other stuff that ISN'T included in your upgrade.

    I'm not an idiot, and I know a lot about cars. Hennessey is notorious for being a jerk, and it's clear that he can't make reliable cars consistently (see my comments about the MT article). So, that's why I can't "accept my loss and move on." This car is as much a myth as the 7 second Supras you hear about. Maybe one of these exists, but it certainly isn't a PRODUCTION car, or even a semi-standard upgrade for a production car - like Saleen's cars are - so why should I care? You guys should think about this car before you start commenting on it, "suckaz!"</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    I understand how its hard for you to believe that the 800TT would cost less than the 650R, because you clearly know nothing. The 650 is N/A (Naturally Aspirated, since you probably didnt know that either), meaning its gonna cost more then, say, straping on a turbo. I have never seen the 800TT price any thing near 180,000. They all say 160,000. And the Viper costs from 65,000 - 75,000, i dont know where you got 90,000 from...

    You clearly are a Viper hater, 1) cause you admited it and 2) you think of anything to say to make it look like its a bad car.

    Since you hate the Viper so much, why go to this part of the forum? The Viper, let alone the 800TT, is an awesome Supercar. Despite what you say, this car is one of the best.

    No, this car isn't production, but its no less production then any other tuner car. The Viper is production, and you pay to get the 800TT upgrade.

    <!-- Signature -->
     
  3. Wow, you insulted my intelligence and my knowledge of cars. Nice work, you've stepped in a pile of shit now.

    “I understand how its hard for you to believe that the 800TT would cost less than the 650R, because you clearly know nothing. The 650 is N/A (Naturally Aspirated, since you probably didnt know that either), meaning its gonna cost more then, say, straping on a turbo.” -- First off, I don't know what kind of tuning you do, but it is no easier to make a powerful NA engine than it is to make a powerful turbo engine, so long as you do it right. All the work that they do to the 650R must also be done to the 800TT in order for it to be a reliable - or drivable - car. You can't just "strap on a turbo" and expect the results to be very impressive. You'd probably just kill the engine. I sure hope that's not what Hennessey does.

    I'm assuming - I don't have the time or interest to go searching on Hennessey's site for the real info, if it actually is there - that they upgrade, for the 650R, the intake, header, exhaust, valve mechanicals, camshafts, valve/ignition timing, connecting rods, transmission, suspension, aerodynamics (you'll need downforce with all that torque going to just the rear wheels with the engine in the front, now won't you?), and other cosmetic changes. With the 800TT, you'll need to do all that exterior stuff, all the engine work, and a whole lot more bottom end work (you do know what the bottom end is, don't you? It's not the same one that your head seems to be stuck in, but, in the Viper, it's a similar thing.) THEN you can "strap on a turbo" or two. If you weren't a complete fool, you'd know that simply bolting on a turbo with any significant boost pressure to the engine of a Viper would blow it to hell. So, as nice as it is that you noticed that the 650R is NA, your theory that it would therefore cost MORE to upgrade the engine is wrong. You’re an idiot if you still think that doing a good turbo job is easy.

    “I have never seen the 800TT price any thing near 180,000. They all say 160,000. And the Viper costs from 65,000 - 75,000, i dont know where you got 90,000 from...” -- Have you ever bought a car before? When have you EVER paid MSRP for a new car? It’s worse for performance cars. You wouldn’t have to try very hard to spend $90,000 on a Viper, just like you wouldn’t have to break a sweat to spend $55,000 on a $45,000 MSRP M3 (do you know what an M3 is?)

    “You clearly are a Viper hater, 1) cause you admited it and 2) you think of anything to say to make it look like its a bad car.” -- Also, nice work figuring out that I’m a Viper hater. It’s very astute of you to notice that the author of a thread entitled “I Hate This Car” in a Viper forum might dislike the Viper. To be honest, however, I actually don’t have all that much of a problem with the stock Viper, so long as you compare it to this Venom.

    “No, this car isn't production, but its no less production then any other tuner car. The Viper is production, and you pay to get the 800TT upgrade." -- As I said before, the difference between this car and, say, a Lingenfelter Corvette or a Saleen Mustang is that this car doesn’t actually exist. Hennessey can’t make one reliably and he can’t do it for the price he quotes. The “formula” for how he creates these fictitious beasts from stock Vipers changes constantly, as does the bill for his services. That’s a big difference if you know what you’re talking about. You can say that a Ruf is a tuner car because they tune production cars according to their own set of specifications. They do it for a set price and, though the options are customizable, the result is consistent. You can’t say that Tony McHonda’s Turbo J-Spec Integra is a tuner car because it’s just a single car that some guy made. That’s what this Venom is. Whatever Hennessey feels like putting into the car and whatever he feels like charging for it is cool, so long as he’s pleased with the result. Unfortunately for the people who spend the big bucks on his cars, he doesn’t look for quality or reliability in the results.

    I’m getting tired of responding to the same dumb comments again and again, so, if you’re a big time American muscle fan who doesn’t actually know anything about cars, please don’t say anything. If you actually have something intelligent to say, by all means, say it and we can have a discussion. Insults directed at me and declarations of the “greatness” of the Viper are pointless and fall on deaf ears here, so keep them to yourself.

    SvSiViper1, believe it or not, I was actually enjoying your replies until this most recent installment, when you pissed me off intentionally. It’s people like hennesseyms, though, that have pissed me off from the start, just saying the same thing over and over.
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  4. This is a great car that can't be beat, clean and clear<!-- Signature -->
     
  5. 75.1 mph slolom, you call that bad traction, bad handeling?<!-- Signature -->
     
  6. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Guibo</i>
    <b>Well, jeez, most of the things you're saying can also apply to things like the Caterham 7, TVR's, etc. It just means these cars require more attention to drive to the limits; they're not some old Cadillac with supersoft comfy suspension, such that you could easily understeer to its low limits, one hand on the steering wheel, the other holding a cell phone to your head. Does that make any of these cars bad? Not really. I've got video of a guy losing it in his S2000 on a winding mountain road. Does that make the S2000 a bad handling car? There's a story of a guy with a brand new Modena at the nsxfiles website:

    "So I stopped by Martin's place. Martin used to work at a Ferrari dealership, and now has his own shop, kinda like how Larry used to work at an Acura dealership. I stopped by there, and he showed me this wrecked Ferrari 360 Spider. Apparently the story behind it is that some guy put down a deposit, waited a couple years, and then his Ferrari finally came in. He then picked it up at the dealer, and he had to be one hell of a happy person. Drove it home.....and promptly crashed it. Wiped out the entire passenger side, front and rear fenders, door, rim, etc."

    Also, at the same site, a story of a guy who crashes his brother's NSX on the way to the track. He loses it on a wet offramp (see pic below). NSX's are bad handling? Nope.


    Well, the Viper has ABS. And has had it for over a year. It is largely more refined than was the original intent of the Viper team, when headed by Bob Lutz and Tom Gale. Some might go so far as to say it's too refined and a little too costly because of it. What about the Porsche GT2? It doesn't have PSM. Does that make it less of an enthusiast car than a 996 Turbo?

    Besides, the Viper isn't nearly as unforgiving as you might think.

    "The Viper turned the quickest laps around the handling course at the Chrysler proving ground and was easiest to drive."
    --C&D, July '97 comparo w/993 Turbo S and NSX-T

    "And if numbers were not enough, Steve Millen proclaimed it (the Viper) super-handling and 'among the best balanced cars on the racetrack.'"
    --R&T, July '98 comparo w/996, F355, NSX, M Roadster, C5 Cabrio

    The F355 was deemed trickiest to control at the limit in that test as well as in MT's High Speed Gamble from '97, where it lost to the Viper on the road course. Doesn't make the Ferrari a bad handling car.
    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    You're right again. Again, I didn't explain myself well. Exteme cars like the Viper with all-out, performance-driven designs are dangerous, but dangerous in a way that makes them a thrill to drive. If you look at my posts, I complain about the tire width of the Viper a lot. That's because tire width is important, and not just because wider tires make better traction. Vipers have problems with rear camber and front caster all the time. Road noise is a problem (not that you'd really care if you owned one) and tire wear is excessive. Wide tires puts a lot of stress (especialy torsional stress)on the suspension, meaning that you need those beefy but unsophisticated unequal A arms. I know it's an ok suspension system, but it can't compare to the versatility of multi-link or some other systems. You can't have multi-link in a Viper because the components that could withstand the stress would be prohibitively heavy. So, sure, the Viper can handle well, but because of a sacrifice that I consider unnecessary. And that handling is not as sophisticated as the cars you mentioned (C 7s, TVRs, S2000s, etc.) See what happens when you're riding on tread-worn tires in the Viper as opposed to the same situation in a Caterham. As I said before, it's the approach of the Viper that really gets me, not the results.

    As a little aside, I like double wishbone and multi-link because of the way the car perches up on itself when you accelerate just right. Nothing beats that feeling of accelerating with all of the car's components acting together. Even if you're not going as fast as the other guy, you sure feel like you are. It's even better with AWD; everything just pops up and you go.<!-- Signature -->
     
  7. Vipers are one of the best american cars ever made u beaners so shut up because u dont no wat ur talking about. An American car this far up is awsome and vipers are the best so shut up.<!-- Signature -->
     
  8. The BMW 3 series have the ESP.
     
  9. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from hennesseyms</i>
    <b>What's your favorite BMW?</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    330D (made for Europeans) or 760i
     
  10. they have the same suspensions , at least in Europe.
    They also both have DSC
     
  11. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from rs4man</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from LanciaDeltaIntegraleS4</i>
    <b>Why does it exist? There is nothing beautiful about a Viper, and the Twin Turbos are just shameful. No one can actually confirm the performance of this car, but it gives all the ignorant fans of American muscle (not to imply that all American muscle fans are ignorant) something to brag about. "So your Skyline has the best handling package in the world and one of the most tunable engines in history...the 8L Viper Venom 800TT goes 0-60 in 2.4 seconds!" It's total bullshit, and anyone who knows about racing knows it. There is nothing worse than a Viper on a racetrack (other than those big, useless Ovals, but those aren't for real racing, they're for leisurely turning your wheel the same direction every few minutes). This is as much a kid's toy car as the Diablo, only without an impressive design, level of luxury, drivetrain, or engine. So what's it got? It has exactly one trick: going forward for 15 seconds faster than most other cars. Dodge has wasted a huge amount of poorly-machined steel and overused rubber building this car, so I hope for their sake that the '03 is at least decent.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->I agree!**** the Viper!!!!!</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    well **** u too!
     
  12. All of u are stupid. A top fuel dragracer could beat any car on this site. Although the gas mileage is awful. I bet not one person on this site knows a damn thing about cars.
     
  13. Just look at the viper and you'll notice it's not setup for rally racing. Rally cars have a huge list of differences from a road car which I'm not going to get into, but you are basically comparing apples and oranges... <!-- Signature -->
     
  14. Venoms are still the best preformance for da dollar.<!-- Signature -->
     
  15. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Guibo</i>
    <b>Well, the reason they (and I) ask for proof is because it's all too easy to say, "Well, this car is faster than that car." Someone else will say, "No, that car is faster than this car." Who to believe, the guy who merely claims it, or the guy with at least a decent amount of evidence to back it up? Unfortunately, MOST of us on these forums will never be able to test either of these cars, so we have to rely on the available data. Simple, really.

    Regarding the VTTT, it should be noted that there's more to the story:
    "The story behind the creation of the Diablo VTTT's is quite interesting, they wanted to bore the standard 5.6-Liter out to a 7.4 Liter unit, but Automobili Lamborghini SpA didn't advice this move, it would be more feasible to use the 7.0 or even the 8.0 Liter marine engine from Lamborghini. After close calculation this engine would pump out 640 Bhp with stock compression, but by installing two turbo's and boosting the compression, an easy 1170 Bhp was possible on dyno-testing, unfortunately this much power and torque would rip the Visco Coupling to pieces, so avoiding to rebuild a stronger coupling system, they settled for the standard engine and ended up with about 758 Bhp on the wheel dyno, unfortunately since the front axle drive was removed when testing the engine, about 20 percent would be lost driving the front wheels too, but still a healthy 600 Bhp would be available to the fortunate driver."

    So, dyno testing is one thing. Actually getting an 1170-bhp Diablo on the road is quite another, and judging by the story behind this, none has ever hit the road with that kind of power. The 800TT, on the other hand, has made dozens if not hundreds of dyno pulls and dragstrip runs in the quest for more and more power. 1087 RWHP, last I checked.
    Keep in mind also that Lamborghini has traditionally been optimistic when it comes to the top speed claims for its cars, a trait also shared by its rival Ferrari. Considering that a 1300-hp Skyline has trouble mustering anything beyond 215 mph, I doubt a Diablo would fare much better. Unless it's RWD.
    This is not to say the Diablo, in any state of tune, isn't a bad-ass machine. Far from it.
    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    lol, Guibo...I was afraid you'd find that article. There's something to be said for creative editing, isn't there? I think the reason that there aren't any 1100hp factory Diablos out there is that they didn't think that, with the compromises they'd have to make, they could sell any.

    My point was that this is far from being the fastest car out there. Keep in mind I don't include cars with NOS to be competitors for that title. Supertuners like Koenig, Ruf, Gemballa, Dinan, and others can do some amazing things with their base cars, so Hennessey isn't without competition. Do you think that this car is truly the fastest car on the planet?<!-- Signature -->
     
  16. LanciaDeltaIntegraleS4 you are my hero. Your opinions surrounding the Viper mimic mine exactly, and you were even modest enough to admit that the Viper doesn't look half bad. Your opinions are very nicely articulated and on the level. Keep up the great posts!
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  17. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from SvSiViper1</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from LanciaDeltaIntegraleS4 </i>
    <b>You're right. I'm so mad that this car is the best. The TVR Cerbera Speed 12, any Koenig Ferrari, and the Ruf RTurbo have nothing on this. I'm so ashamed of myself to think that I knew anything. There is NO car on the planet that can compete with this Viper, and I can't believe I made this post. I hope you saw a healthy smattering of sarcasm there.

    The fact is that this is a tuner car, not a production car. You can, for $180,000, make many cars be this fast. A $180,000 Skyline would probably rip this car a new one. A $180,000 Corvette would CERTAINLY beat the crap out of this Viper. People tout this car as the king of performance, but it isn't. There is nothing surprising about this car's performance, and nothing impressive either. ANY 8L TT engine attached to ANY chassis will go this fast or faster. Having this car on a site like Supercars.net is as bad as having "My sister's girlfriend's cousin's turbo CRX with NOS" on it.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    TVR Speed 12 has never been tested, so don't say it will beat the Viper, I'll only believe it when I see it (not likely)

    How does the Koenig Ferrari F50 beat this? Show me proof of it hitting 0-60 in 2.4, 0-100 in 5.5, or even how well it handles. If it handles better then 1.05g's on the skidpad, or 75.1 mph in the slalom, we'll talk.

    Ruf Turbo R...Are you crazy? 490 hp? Yea, it almost beats the Viper 800TT, almost. I also hope you saw the sarcasm in that statement.
    And even if you meant the Ruf 911 Turbo R, it still doesnt even come close with its 520 hp.

    You were right, the TVR Speed 12, Koenig Ferrari's, and the Ruf Turbo R do have nothing on this Viper, but I am not being sarcastic.

    As for saying a 180,000 would <i>probably</i> beat the Viper and a 180,000 Corvette beating the Viper...They don't have one now do they? Until they make one, they also have nothing on this Viper. You have just been proved wrong...

    And by the way, the Viper 800TT costs $155,000.

    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    lol...I put the Speed 12 in the list because it's exactly what this car is, "vaporware." Who cares about skidpad results? Also, I believe the 75mph result through the slalom was achieved on those superslick "street legal" tires and with a 30' addition to the start of the course. I heard that number quoted before, so I did research because it was so high. It turns out that the way they got it is by giving the Viper a 30' head start: the car passed the first cone at 100+ mph. Slalom results are interesting and far better than skidpad numbers, but they're hard to compare because the courses are unregulated. Up until a few years ago, Car and Driver included a 10' straightaway at the end of their courses, so they always got higher average speeds with the cars they tested. They're pretty standard, but not perfect.

    I hope you're kidding about comparing horsepower to horsepower with the RTurbo (and, yes, I did mean the latest 996 911 variant). The freakin' thing's AWD and could handle circles around this Viper. The F50 Koenig does consistent sub-3s 0-60 and has a top speed of over 230mph. It also does 1.03g on the skidpad and 72mph through the slalom, in case you're interested. And I'm sure the Ferrari handles better in other respects.

    As for the "testing" of this Viper, show me track times. I want to see how it did at Laguna Seca or Nurburgring or another reputable track.

    And if you think that just because Supercars.net doesn't post a $180,000 'Vette it doesn't exist, you've got another thing coming. I'm sure John Lingenfelter would be happy to fix you up with one.

    If you think you could get one of these cars for $155,000, I wish you luck. As far as I know, you can't even get them for $180,000.<!-- Signature -->
     
  18. #18 hennesseyms, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
  19. I hate this car.

    Why does it exist? There is nothing beautiful about a Viper, and the Twin Turbos are just shameful. No one can actually confirm the performance of this car, but it gives all the ignorant fans of American muscle (not to imply that all American muscle fans are ignorant) something to brag about. "So your Skyline has the best handling package in the world and one of the most tunable engines in history...the 8L Viper Venom 800TT goes 0-60 in 2.4 seconds!" It's total bullshit, and anyone who knows about racing knows it. There is nothing worse than a Viper on a racetrack (other than those big, useless Ovals, but those aren't for real racing, they're for leisurely turning your wheel the same direction every few minutes). This is as much a kid's toy car as the Diablo, only without an impressive design, level of luxury, drivetrain, or engine. So what's it got? It has exactly one trick: going forward for 15 seconds faster than most other cars. Dodge has wasted a huge amount of poorly-machined steel and overused rubber building this car, so I hope for their sake that the '03 is at least decent.<!-- Signature -->
     
  20. #20 hennesseyms, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
  21. #21 SvSi Viper, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from LanciaDeltaIntegraleS4</i>
    <b>There is nothing beautiful about a Viper</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Thats pure opinion, and since you gave yours, I will give mine. To me, the Viper is the most beautiful car I have ever seen. To me, there is absolutely no car that looks any better then this, its the top in beauty. But then again, only opinion.

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from LanciaDeltaIntegraleS4</i>
    <b>No one can actually confirm the performance of this car</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    I guess you never heard of a certain magazine called Motor Trend, they are quite famous, you should read their article on it.
    www.motortrend.com/june01/ttviper/ttviper_f.html

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from LanciaDeltaIntegraleS4</i>
    <b>There is nothing worse than a Viper on a racetrack </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Again, opinion. But then again, its not. The Viper has an awesome Racing History, they dominate almost anything it races against.

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from LanciaDeltaIntegraleS4</i>
    <b>So what's it got? It has exactly one trick: going forward for 15 seconds faster than most other cars</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Actually, it does handle quite well, I think excellent would be a better word. How many cars (remember stock) can go through the slalom at 70.1 mph, and have a skidpad rating of 1.0g's??

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from LanciaDeltaIntegraleS4</i>
    <b>Dodge has wasted a huge amount of poorly-machined steel and overused rubber building this car</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Exactly. Thats why its one of the best Supercars there is. Think about it.

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  22. you are possibly the dumdest retared on the planet just stutup you know noting on this car
     
  23. #23 LanciaDeltaIntegraleS4, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from hennesseyms</i>
    <b>wrong...quit being a hater the numbers are here www.motortrend.com/june01/ttviper/ttviper_f.html
    www.hennesseyms.com


    0-60=2.43
    0-100=5.5
    1/4 mile=9.9@137.7


    Don't be too jelous!</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Since both you and SvSiViper1 pointed me to this article, I read through it. My favorite part was right at the beginning, when they said,


    As it also turned out, various tuning gremlins (including a
    nasty turbo oiling problem) prevented us from performance
    testing this hell-spawn super-Viper at that time, so we vowed to
    return within 30 days to challenge the Venom 800 to MT's put-up-
    or-shut-up, no-holds-barred performance tests: The quarter-mile
    showdown and our patented standing-mile full-throttle
    acceleration run.

    The car is so rare and unreliable that even when Motor Trend comes a knocking, Hennessey can't cough up a good example. I have heard some horror stories about Hennessey Viper Venoms that rival even those about RENNtech Mercedes cars (think, piston through the hood, Hennessey nowhere to be found). Sure, he may be able to get the performance stats, but the car is a racer; it isn't reliable enough to be driven through more than a couple of days of hard driving. You might as well buy a 5-second dragster and replace the engine after every run; you'd get the same thrill.

    Forgive me for not being impressed by a car with the biggest engine on the planet, with TWO turbochargers, and with more "street legal" rubber than any other car. And my comment about beauty in a Viper wasn't about the looks, it was about the lack of any art in the engineering of the car. I think it looks just fine.

    Also, don't give me skidpad times or even slalom speeds. Lap times are all that really matter.

    "you are possibly the dumdest retared on the planet just stutup you know noting on this car " As for the bozo that said this: why don't you learn some spelling and grammar before you go talkin' trash? If you knew anything about automotive engineering, physics, or even had an appreciation for these things you would at least have an argument for me as to why this car is worth $80,000, much less $180,000.<!-- Signature -->
     
  24. whoever said fans of American muscle cars like Vipers. I don't I love old Mopar muscle cars and think the Viper is among the most overrated cars ever created.
     
  25. correction...for those who thought the above comment read "I don't love old Mopar" it really reads "I don't (like Vipers) But I love old Mopar Muscle cars. I don't want to confuse anyone and stir up any arguments.
     

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