Re: Let's Talk about Tuned Cars Now - 2000 Dodge Hennessey Viper

Discussion in '1999 Lamborghini Diablo GT' started by Christianmc, Aug 9, 2002.

  1. WHere did you get that the Diablo GT is lighter than the Porsche GT2? When they were weighed, the Diablo GT was in fact 200 lbs heavier than the Porsche GT2. Even the factory claims say the Diablo is heavier. I never said that because the Diablo has better handeling it had better lap time than the Viper. It’s more complicated than that, and I think you already know what I actually said. “Despite the Diablo’s size and width, which is not ideal for the Nurburgring, it still had a better lap time than the Viper.” The Diablo is much more impressive on more open tracks.

    Top speed doesn’t matter for anything at the nurburgring. Another thing: The Old, 510 hp ‘96 Diablo SV with no VVT beats the Porsche GT3 by far on other cuircuits; I have seen it for myself. However, the Nurburgring is best for light small cars like the Porsche GT2 and GT3, and is the Diablos week-spot. That said, it still beat the Viper GTS, and was most like the old ‘97 SV with 520 hp and no VVT! The Porsche GT3 made very good lap times because it fits the criteria perfectly, despite the fact that it is not very fast in acceleration or top speed. Handeling and size matters more than anything at the Nurburgring, and although the Diablo has fairly good handeling, it is pretty big. Just because the Viper GTS is 1 second behind the old ‘97 Diablo at the Nurburgring, don’t expect it to be on any other track, especially not a ‘98 or ‘99 SV!

    Quatrorout got 1.10 g out of their Diablo GT, but R&T got 1.02 g out of their Porsche GT2. You can’t compare those stats because they were done by two different magazines. The Porsche GT2 defiantely has better handeling than the Diablo GT, and that is why it has better lap times than the GT, despite the fact that it is slower. And your proving my point about g’s exactly: they don’t tell you directly which car has better handeling. Just because R&T got more g’s out of their Viper than their F50, doesn’t tell you the Viper has better handeling. In fact, Motor Trend says the 550 Marenenllo has a seemingly poor 0.93 g’s, but went 68 mph on the slalom! g’s are not the only determining factor for the turning ability of a car, and even slalom speeds don’t always tell you much. That’s why lap times are more important! On every other course than the Nurburgring the Diablo GT has equal lap times to the F50 and F40 (the F40 is not that great at the nurburgring either). But the Viper never comes close!

    This is fact which I have known all along:

    1.The Porsche GT2 and GT3 have better handeling than the DIablo GT, despite different tests done by magazines.

    2.The Ferrari F50 has better handeling than the Viper GTS

    3. The Diabo SV beats the Viper GTS even on its worst track, much more so on other tracks.

    What have you disproved with my own information? Absolutely nothing. Your saying a lot of things, some of them true, some of them not, but what are you trying to get at? What's your point? I won’t keep arguing for arguing’s sake, unless there is something you’re trying to get at. I'm getting tired of people who think they are clever enough to make a bunch of arguments that sound ok but don't mean anything, and think no one is smart enough to notice.
     
  2. hey snyper if you had read into the it says the it was acheived on "cheater slicks" just in case you dont know what those are they are street legal slicks which means the have some tread on them. plus it state that the 0-60 time was acheived in the rain! slicks let alone cheater slick dont grip very well in the rain. so could you just imagine the 0-60 time on dry ground.....ha
     
  3. i still would like to see them both on slicks or both on street legal dots, just to compare them at the same time, same place, and i garuntee the Diablo will win!!!!!!!
     
  4. like i said the cheater slicks are dot street legal tires. and i dont think the lambo would make up that much time on the viper.
     
  5. lets agree to disagree k?, i dont have a problem witht the viper, but it aint a track car, on the track i think it would win, on the drag strip, maybe the viper!!! lol<!-- Signature -->
     
  6. ok i can agree to disagree. but i noticed you said the viper wasnt a track car. by that i assume you mean a road course type track. well the viper pulled 1.04 on the skidpad while the diablo gt only pulled 1.00. and yes the viper would win in a drag race. i think the diablo might beat it on breaking though
     
  7. hey lwrider20 lets just leave it alone, u r prbably far away from the Bahamas, so lets just leave it alone, i like the Diablo Coatl and u like the Venom 800tt, later lol <IMG SRC="http://www.supercars.net/servlets/cMsg/html/emoticons/smile.gif"><!-- Signature -->
     
  8. thats fine with me. by the way what do the bahamas have to do with this. lol
     
  9. thats where i live, lol<!-- Signature -->
     
  10. okay i might as well end this right now by saying the viper would get its ass kicked. ur probably all thinking i am crazy, but i can explain. not only have i seen the base model diablo do 60 in 3.6 sec in numerous car mag's, and also the lambo gtr is faster and has more hp. anyways, the viper venom 800tt was not in fully street legal trim when i got the 0-60 in 2.4 sec times/. the tires were ilegal. infact, a huuuuge viper tt fan even admitted this and that the tests with actual road going legal tires turned up times in the high 3's and some even in the low 4's due to traction problems. and to be honest, thats not all that impressive from an 800hp car. and i was also disapointed with the engine. i mean why the hell would they need to twin turbo charge the vipers engine to get 800hp when its an 8.0 litre engine! i say that because i always hear viper enthusiasts bitching about how it could get 800hp n/a no problem. anyways, to begin with this is a stupid comparision. i saw one similar, when it was the viper compared to the mclaren f1. the truth is u could buy a car that pulled off way faster times then this for a lot less money. the veilside supra. over 1040hp, and thats out of an in-line 6! now thats remarkable, why couldnt the viper get 1040hp out of an 8.0 v10? did i mention that the supra costs somewhere in the area of 50k?!<!-- Signature -->
     
  11. I don't really wanna get into this, but why are all of you fixated on hp? Just because a car has more hp doesn't mean it will go faster. Geese this is freakin supercars.net. You guys that come on here should all know that there are excellent cars with rather wimpy hp ratings. This is not a hot rod site. There you can argue about having 800hp, and it being better than a 600hp car. My friend who knows almost nothing about cars even know hp does not equal speed. And think about it, the more hp you have, the more easily the tires will break loose from the pavement. Wheight, and grip probably mean way more than hp. The Supra was probably HEAVILY TUNED. That's not a bad thing, you just can't compare the two. This is a fact and it's not a put-down; AMERICAN CARS HAVE WAY MORE TOLERANCE. For those of you who have no idea what i'm talking about, I'm talking about manufacturing imprefections. For eg. When a Japanese car maker would exact a cylinder diameter to .000 of an inch, amercans would go to .00. That's why it's harder to tune american cars. Another thing I'm not understanding from some of you is why you think you can't compare turbo to normally aspirated cars. If you start with an excellent engine, and THEN add in turbos, it's fine. Like the 320hp Carrera > 415hp Turbo. You can't compare when you start with 200hp and end up with 1000hp just because it's way out of it's own class. In the 911's case, the turbos act as a boost. With the 200hp engine, the turbos act as more than 50% of the power. Also, those of you who say that if you tune the Lambo it will totaly smoke everything, that may not be the case. The Lambos engine can't be tuned much more than it already is from the factory. Euro car makers try to extract the most from the engine possible (not just Italian cars... coughporschecough). Again, not a put-down, but americans are almost the exact opposite. They don't wanna waste time perfecting the engine, so they'll use displacement to make up for the loss. My friend is a muscle car lover and that's exactly what he likes. V8, and HUGE displacement. So what i'm really trying to say is just that you really can't compare american cars with anything but themselves. They're in their own class. Sorry for the blabbing.<!-- Signature -->
     
  12. I'm really not that interested in this argument, but having briefly scanned through the arguments, no one seems to have mentioned the Lamborghini Viscous Traction Twin Turbo, which is (very arguably) the fastest car in the world according to some sources. Lets face it, every car can be modified and beefed up to do ludicrous speeds in straight lines; this is not the point. There's a truck called shockwave that does 376MPH thanks to its three jet engines, and a Crysler PT Cruiser that hits 70 from 0 in less than a second, but no one mentions these because they are pointless intellectual exercises in sheer speed, not finely balanced and well thought out driving machines.

    The point is that sheer speed does not make a car great; Ferrari has not built a car to hold the 'fastest production car' mantel for a long time, but is still considered amongst the finest car manufacturers in the world, because of its blend of handling, speed, response and style. To consider any one aspect of a car alone is to miss the bigger picture and the greater beauty of the car.<!-- Signature -->
     
  13. this has been the most ludacris argument i have ever seen. apples and oranges what taste better? the supra is my fav out of them all(even though that pt cruiser would be interesting) if u want to really stupify this anymore (if it can be) why not take a lambo-rep (u know the ones with those cute lil GM enginges) and play with it to you hearts content. then you'll really get the best of bothe worlds!<!-- Signature -->
     
  14. How about comparing a Bugatti Veyron to a Hennessey, turbo vs. turbo...<!-- Signature -->
     
  15. Everybody keeps saying you can't copare these two because the viper has twin turbo on it and the diablo dosen't. Theirs one thing your forgetting, price! I think the viper would run about $130,000. The diable cost $309,000! Now come on, I'd rather spend $130,000 and get the viper, which will keep up with the diable. Yes, they are built for different purposes, but you can still compare them. Why not, it's the internet, you can do anything on the internet.
    The diablo is an amazing car though, If anybody has one, or the hennessey viper, how bought stopping by my house and letting me take it out for a spin?!? Come on, anybody...?
     
  16. why are u guys talking about HP and 0-60 time? and why can't you tune the Lambo's engine? true it might be difficult to squeez anymore hp if you keep it N/A. but no one said you can't stick turbos in there. Single or Twin Turbos might produce too much boost for the engine to handle. but im sure you can use a Quad turbos in there. and whats up with comparing an 8.0L TT to 6.0L N/A? how pathetic is that? 8.0 alone SHOULD be able to take a 6.0 without the aid of Turbos. but that's not the case.

    and who was saying earlier about too much HP makes the car looses traction and HP don't have anything to do with speed? who ever said that should go learn more about cars before they start talking about it. HP doesn't play much part in loosing any traction...TORQUE is the one that make the car looses traction, and HP has everything to do with speed...not now soon it gets there, but how fast it can go(top speed). to make things a little easier to understand for those that dont know the difference...

    TORQUE = wheel spin...American Muscle, big displacement+long strokes = more torque, low RPM redline.

    HP = top speed...European cars, smaller displacement/cylinder, big bore+short strokes = more cylinders/Liter, more HP, higher RPM redline.

    of course top speed depends on the gearing of the car too. im sure that 800hp Viper can go much faster than what it is doing right now, it just need lower gears. but i would rather have a Lambo or a Ferrari...more class and style. can't afford one but hey, i can dream, right? i'll get a Ferrari one day, before i die. i dont care if i have to be homeless to get one damn it!!!
     
  17. why are u guys talking about HP and 0-60 time? and why can't you tune the Lambo's engine? true it might be difficult to squeez anymore hp if you keep it N/A. but no one said you can't stick turbos in there. Single or Twin Turbos might produce too much boost for the engine to handle. but im sure you can use a Quad turbos in there. and whats up with comparing an 8.0L TT to 6.0L N/A? how pathetic is that? 8.0 alone SHOULD be able to take a 6.0 without the aid of Turbos. but that's not the case.

    and who was saying earlier about too much HP makes the car looses traction and HP don't have anything to do with speed? who ever said that should go learn more about cars before they start talking about it. HP doesn't play much part in loosing any traction...TORQUE is the one that make the car looses traction, and HP has everything to do with speed...not now soon it gets there, but how fast it can go(top speed). to make things a little easier to understand for those that dont know the difference...

    TORQUE = wheel spin...American Muscle, big displacement+long strokes = more torque, low RPM redline.

    HP = top speed...European cars, smaller displacement/cylinder, big bore+short strokes = more cylinders/Liter, more HP, higher RPM redline.

    of course top speed depends on the gearing of the car too. im sure that 800hp Viper can go much faster than what it is doing right now, it just need lower gears. but i would rather have a Lambo or a Ferrari...more class and style. can't afford one but hey, i can dream, right? i'll get a Ferrari one day, before i die. i dont care if i have to be homeless to get one damn it!!!
     
  18. ok, my input of this, the viper sucks comparred to the diablo gt. you domestic people are too stuck up on 1/4 times and 0-60 test. if you took these two cars on the track,ummm, lets say laguna seca(not no nascar left handers)the lamborghini would anihlate the viper, the viper would never be as quick in the turns, or brake faster then the viper. dont you think domestics are a bit weak...i mean a 5.0 mustang puts out about what...230hp, a imported car, a toyota supra 3.0 6 cylinder put out 325 hp.....american cars are gas hogs. they might have the imports on the straight away, but who ever thinks about the turns, and braking?oh yeah, i can promise you the gt and viper side by side, the gt would get about 5 times as many women.<!-- Signature -->
     
  19. it's hard not to be rude when you make such an ignorant comment, but i'll try my best. it's interesting how you completely disregarded certain aspects of the viper when comparing it to the lambo. things like quality, workmanship, style, prestige, and most importantly, rarity of the car itself. don't get me wrong, no idiot would say a viper isn't fast, but speed isn't the most important factor, which is the only spec you chose to compare! that's the only way you could justify your argument, ignoring all other aspects of the two cars. tell me this, would you choose a 78 ford station wagon with wood trim, that had a 460 engine, or a 2001 acura rsx? the station wagon would no doubt blow it's doors off in a race, but the rsx is more refined, better quality, looks better, and turns more heads. based on what you've said, you would choose a car based only on speed. (have fun with the station wagon). i see vipers all the time, but have only seen one lambo. vipers attract as much attention as a fat chick in spandex. people will glance, but not even look twice anymore. both are virtually equal in performance, which leads me to my next point, could you even control either beast? probably not. strap a couple of turbos on the lambo, and then we have an even comparison. in natural form, the lambo makes 575 from 6 litres, whereas the viper makes 460 from 8. we could go on, but i don't kick a man when he's down. have you ever heard a lambo at redline? anyone can make a big heavy muscle car with gobs of torque, but exotics speak for themselves.<!-- Signature -->
     
  20. 93 Cobra, if as you say, torque wins races not horsepower, why don't you race in a diesel?<!-- Signature -->
     
  21. if you want me to, i will go on to say how much oversteer the viper has, how much americans need to learn about aerodynamics and keeping the hp on the road....and oh yeah,if torque means so much, run a diesel....ahh wait...the first lambo was a tractor, sry, maybe torque does = speed....:p<!-- Signature -->
     
  22. can't compare stock vs mod, compare stock vs stock, or mod vs mod<!-- Signature -->
     
  23. well said
     
  24. ok shit head.....the viper has a rediculously HUGE v10 engine with TURBOS. the diablo has basically a bored and stroked 350...except it's a v12 not a v8. that diablo was engineered with more race heritage and customer satisfaction in mind than any viper ever will be. the diablo is loaded with nothing buy carbon fibre, alluminum, and pure driving excitement. the philosophy behind this car has a little more to it than "oh gee...lets take an american car and make it as heavy and inefficient as possible....then put an obscenely massive engine in it...but make it a v8 instead of something with a little better cylinder/displacement ratio. then...we'll put some turbos on it to compensate for the horrible horsepower per litre ratio and call it good. but make sure to add racing stripes so people get the impression that it's supposed to be fast." that's a bunch of horse shit. that diablo is the most gorgeous and beautifully engineered piece of art i have ever seen. and i've seen a lot. there is nothing on at the car would give me any reason to think that an american car, much less a viper, could even come close to comparing with it. you should burn in hell.
     
  25. the fact is ya'll can compare cars statiscally, but is not like ya'll actually drive or anything, so leave it to the magazines. some of ya'll probably never know and compare each car because chances are there'll be hard to acquire, yes you can see numbers, but not unless you see them yourself in the car.i like both cars, i like any car, if ferrari focused on speed then you can bet the more new sport cars could easily output more than 500hp. and yes automakers finally got fed up with that 12 year 276hp max, so in the nearby future you'll start seeing rivalry between the japs the italians and the americans.<!-- Signature -->
     

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