Americans? You're an arrogant idiot if you think that we support the Vette simply because it is American. The fact is it is NOT the same price, and if they were to improve it to the point to where it WAS the same price, it would have as much quality(read:MORE) than a Porsche and be MUCH faster. Engineering is a loose term and gets thrown around too much by those who wish to disguise a lack of true power. Is the Porsche GT2 an excellently engineered car? Of course, noone is saying a Porsche is not a good car. But to say that a Vette is inferior when it is designed to fill a completely different role is as foolish as bashing Americans. The Vette is designed to be an AFFORDABLE, EFFICIENT machine, not the road racer that the Porsche has evolved into. GO TO CHEVY'S SITE. They say nothing about beating a Porsche. If a modded or redesigned Vette with more advanced technology were to be realeased at the same price as this car, it would be at least JUST AS FAST if not faster. Next time before you say something stupid and make yourself looke like a biggot, think.<!-- Signature -->
<!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from My911Turbo</i> <b>What can I say? There are far too many people around here who need to get their hands off it. In one corner we have one of the worlds greatest cars - a GT, sports car and supercar all in one. It has a twin turbo 3.6lt twin turbo flat 6 and it comes from a brand that is recognised all over the world. In the other corner we have our 'Vette Z06 a great car with a 5.7lt V8, naturally aspirated and the figures to back it up. What strikes me though is that despite the price difference, there seems to be a lot of people on this board who, if the cars were the same price, would take the Z06 anyway, despite it being the inferior machine. I make no apologies for saying it's inferior because, well, it is. Patriotism is entered into these discussions far too much and it blinds what MIGHT otherwise be good, automotive judgement. Here in Australia we don't get 'Vette's unless they are private imports but GT2's do come our way. We have our own cars made here that use the LS1 (look up HSV's on this site) and they are great cars but no-on here presumes them to be better than Porsche's. One final thing: just because the GT2 isn't using the antique, pushrod engine design, doesn't mean it's a girls car - this is a man's machine, a thoroughbred through and through - Porsche (and most other automotive companies) have just discovered what you Americans have either missed or rejected - intelligent, technical engine design. You can argue the point if you wish (you'll lose) but in the end it's results that tell the story - and the GT2 delivers them everywhere - in spades.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE --> "FIRST POST, FIRST STRIKE!!" If you've come here to compare, please DO NOT compare apples to oranges. Your post made no sense. The Z06 is an American Sports car, the 911 GT2 is an exotic racer. NOT in the same class (price or otherwise) even though I still think that the Z06 would lose, but give the GT2 a run for it's money. It would have to work at it's victory. It would not easily win. It is a well known fact that vehicles overseas need the turbos, superchargers, & so on to even keep up with your so called "antique, pushrod engine design". DOES NOT say much for your "Man's machine". Have some respect.<!-- Signature -->
RobertT Can you say 928(V8), 924 and 944(Inline 4), not to mention the fact that no Porsche EVER have had an straight 6, most of the late ones have had flat(Opposed/Boxer) 6s.. I think you should do some reading up on this before you post..
*sigh* Americans... What can I say? There are far too many people around here who need to get their hands off it. In one corner we have one of the worlds greatest cars - a GT, sports car and supercar all in one. It has a twin turbo 3.6lt twin turbo flat 6 and it comes from a brand that is recognised all over the world. In the other corner we have our 'Vette Z06 a great car with a 5.7lt V8, naturally aspirated and the figures to back it up. What strikes me though is that despite the price difference, there seems to be a lot of people on this board who, if the cars were the same price, would take the Z06 anyway, despite it being the inferior machine. I make no apologies for saying it's inferior because, well, it is. Patriotism is entered into these discussions far too much and it blinds what MIGHT otherwise be good, automotive judgement. Here in Australia we don't get 'Vette's unless they are private imports but GT2's do come our way. We have our own cars made here that use the LS1 (look up HSV's on this site) and they are great cars but no-on here presumes them to be better than Porsche's. One final thing: just because the GT2 isn't using the antique, pushrod engine design, doesn't mean it's a girls car - this is a man's machine, a thoroughbred through and through - Porsche (and most other automotive companies) have just discovered what you Americans have either missed or rejected - intelligent, technical engine design. You can argue the point if you wish (you'll lose) but in the end it's results that tell the story - and the GT2 delivers them everywhere - in spades.
You've got a very good point there.... What all you who's defended the Z06 says that it is not in the same league (well of course it's an American car, they cant compete with European cars) But still all you wanna do is say how much you would prefer the Z06 because this and that. Well of course there is diffenrences in what you prefer and what you demand for a car. But alot of it is pure bullshit, and because some people wont face fact. Americans cant make cars yet that can outperform the European ones quit yet (Even though the Cadillac Cien looks najs) <!-- Signature -->
<!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from SuPERkAJ</i> <b>You've got a very good point there.... What all you who's defended the Z06 says that it is not in the same league (well of course it's an American car, they cant compete with European cars) But still all you wanna do is say how much you would prefer the Z06 because this and that. Well of course there is diffenrences in what you prefer and what you demand for a car. But alot of it is pure bullshit, and because some people wont face fact. Americans cant make cars yet that can outperform the European ones quit yet (Even though the Cadillac Cien looks najs) </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE --> Everytime an American company buids a car that can outperform a Euro car people start saying how the European car's interior is better or how the engine is more efficient. Just the fact that Americans can do it with $100,000 less makes everything that the European car has over the American mean nothing. Pump the price difference into a Z06 and it can be better than ANY European car. Yes, even a McLaren F1.
I wouldn't go as far to call the corvette z06 inferior. It could deffinetly keep up with this for less than half the porsche. And once again I see someone thinks the flat-6 is a high tech engine compared to a v8. The flat 6 has been around forever, and turbos didn't come out yesterday. You have no real argument. Of course we're going to like the corvette z06. It's just as fast or faster and a lot cheaper. Don't get me wrong the porsche is an awesome machine, but not a smart purchase unless all you care about is looks.<!-- Signature -->
<!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from DiecastDomain</i> <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from My911Turbo</i> <b>What can I say? There are far too many people around here who need to get their hands off it. In one corner we have one of the worlds greatest cars - a GT, sports car and supercar all in one. It has a twin turbo 3.6lt twin turbo flat 6 and it comes from a brand that is recognised all over the world. In the other corner we have our 'Vette Z06 a great car with a 5.7lt V8, naturally aspirated and the figures to back it up. What strikes me though is that despite the price difference, there seems to be a lot of people on this board who, if the cars were the same price, would take the Z06 anyway, despite it being the inferior machine. I make no apologies for saying it's inferior because, well, it is. Patriotism is entered into these discussions far too much and it blinds what MIGHT otherwise be good, automotive judgement. Here in Australia we don't get 'Vette's unless they are private imports but GT2's do come our way. We have our own cars made here that use the LS1 (look up HSV's on this site) and they are great cars but no-on here presumes them to be better than Porsche's. One final thing: just because the GT2 isn't using the antique, pushrod engine design, doesn't mean it's a girls car - this is a man's machine, a thoroughbred through and through - Porsche (and most other automotive companies) have just discovered what you Americans have either missed or rejected - intelligent, technical engine design. You can argue the point if you wish (you'll lose) but in the end it's results that tell the story - and the GT2 delivers them everywhere - in spades.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE --> "FIRST POST, FIRST STRIKE!!" If you've come here to compare, please DO NOT compare apples to oranges. Your post made no sense. The Z06 is an American Sports car, the 911 GT2 is an exotic racer. NOT in the same class (price or otherwise) even though I still think that the Z06 would lose, but give the GT2 a run for it's money. It would have to work at it's victory. It would not easily win. It is a well known fact that vehicles overseas need the turbos, superchargers, & so on to even keep up with your so called "antique, pushrod engine design". DOES NOT say much for your "Man's machine". Have some respect.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE --> Its a common defensive trick to turn a arguement around backwards when your on the side that the facts don't back you up. Yes a 3.6 litre quad cam engine needs turbos or hard tuning to keep up with a 'antique pushrod' 5.7 V8... .. or wait... is it that the V8 needs to be 5.7 litres to keep up with a high tech 3.6 turbo? Hmm 3.6 litre pushrod would be PITYFULL Your right, if you put the same technology, build quality and workmanship into a 5.7 litre V8 it would be damn fast - however it would cost MUCH MORE, because there is alot more engine and car to work up. "It would have to work at it's victory. It would not easily win." Logically its the other way around, the winning GT2 would do so effortlessly - its a superior drivers car with lots of handling aids -the Z06 being slower and less stable would have to work hard in the hands of a capable driver to just keep up!!! <!-- Signature -->
Well for one thing the Corvette is a damn good sports car, no matter how much you guys hate large displacement V8's, the Z06 is one of the best performers doller for doller you will find anywhere. You have to respect the cheap speed of some American cars. That said, I would like to turn to the comment, "American cars just can't keep up with Europeans". Well, have you heard of a car called the GT40? It happens to be a extremely fast car, capable of wasting ferraris(with the exception of the F50, but come on, its 650 grand more expensive than the GT40, and even then, the GT40 isn't that far behind it) and porsches on the strip and on the track. Just try and get your facts straight guys. Anyways, this porsche is one hell of a car. Very nice, looks good. Porsche is one of the best car makers ever.
<!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from 911Gt2</i> <b>Fu*k the Vett its a shitt*y car. American cars are sh*t. German car best cars ever made!</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE --> Ummm you should get your head out of your ass lets go back umm to the 60's and 70's when Caddy was King or when the American's had there Big Blocks and Big power where was BMW,BENZ,FERRARI, and all them then they didn't dare come out to race the Big American Cars<!-- Signature -->
I seem to have annoyed a few people here. The 'Vette Z06 is a great car I'm sure but you have all probably heard the phrase "You get what you pay for." this is a true statement. I am not saying the Z06 a tin can with wheels but it isn't in the same engineering or quality league as the GT2 and before you all start whinging like 5yr olds I do know that these two cars appeal to different buyers because of their price tags. It is a well known fact that American build quality is not up to scratch on other cars (ie. European and Japanese) everyone knows it. To quote one highly respected auto mag here in Australia "American cars are with their build quality in the same area as Japanese cars were 15 years ago." Also, part of the explanation for price is importation costs - your Vette' is made in your own country and thus doesn't have all the extra costs associated with importation. Yes, the boxer engine design is old too, it is not engine configuration I am talking about. I am talking about technology used in the configuration of an engine (like pushrods). I will agree that the pushrod engine has come a long way and gives impressive results but it cannot compete with something of the same capacity and configuration running quad cams and 32 valves (and cam timing?). Take a look at the 4.3lt V8 that Toyota uses in the Lexus LS430. America does have a lot of heritage in the 60' and 70's but not everyone thinks those cars are anything spectacular, just out-there-in-your-face American styling which didn't look good then and has unfortunately trickled down to the aesthetic eye-sores of most modern American body designs (with a few exceptions of course). Where were Ferarri etc. then - pending their time in Europe winning races and developing cars that were a prelude to the awesome machines they make now. Comparing these two cars is as one person said "comparing apples and oranges" but someone else started this argument and I am just throwing in my opinion. It's a stupid thread but hey - people use it.
Can we put this engine design thing to bed? Come on, people on these boards like to say how the ZO6 beat a 911 turbo and whatever, but it DOES use a crap-load more petrol doing it. Josh427 - what the HELL are you doing typing "EFFICIENT" when you're talking about American sports cars?!?!? I mean come on - as far as American engines are concerned, they are the engineering equivalent of lighting a fart: Effective, waste of fuel, there are better ways to achieve the same effect, and they're amusing to people that know better. Lingenfelter - that's nice; but we are not in the 60's or 70's anymore... and standard marketting rules dictate, that if American cars had been so good back then and were doing the job well enough, then BENZ, BMW, Ferrari and all of them would not have been able to get a foothold in the market... except, whoops - they did. <!-- Signature -->
Just a few things I noticed scattered in here... Quotes : 1. Your right, if you put the same technology, build quality and workmanship into a 5.7 litre V8 it would be damn fast - however it would cost MUCH MORE, because there is alot more engine and car to work up. wrong a bigger block takes less money to produce the same output 2. .. or wait... is it that the V8 needs to be 5.7 litres to keep up with a high tech 3.6 turbo? Hmm 3.6 litre pushrod would be PITYFULL The sad thing is when an engine needs turbos to keep up with a naturally aspirated engine k2lu - Why look at supercars if you worry about gas mileage? Ls1 has very good mileage actually, and the ls1 is far more reliable than any car with boost...<!-- Signature -->
Hey Nissimo, it's also a common tactic to generalize the hell out of whatever you are attacking. Case in point: US car haters. Someone quotes a mag saying "American build quality is where the Japanese were 15 years ago." I'd agree with that...for a damn taurus or cavelier, or a SUV, but the Z06 is not exactly built the same way by the same factory as those is it? The Build quality on the Z06 is award winning! As for the crappy gas mileage, it get 20-28. Beats this car hands down. So yeah, the pushrod system is low-tech, but high-tech is not neccesarily a means to itself. A lot of US car haters forget that. Technology also means needless sophistication in many cases. Essentially, the fewer moving parts, the less tendency toward failure from an engineering standpoint. It's not the high techiness of the car that matters, but what it delivers how. Now this is a superior car to the Z06, no question, but don't generalize any type of car. There are always exceptions.<!-- Signature -->
i agree wit what sparetire said. but u gotta admit, the Z06 is probably the sport car that has the best value. sure, the GT2 is better looking, faster, and better handling, but that doesnt mean the vette is not a good car. btw, all the ppl who thinks jap cars are so much better than american cars, whats wrong with you? pit a Skyline GTR and a vette Z06, who'd win? the Z06 will be better in handling, speed, and track time. face the facts. but dont get me wrong, i still love jap cars.
Hehe what can I say... the Skyline would own the Z06 on a track. I dont even wanna give good reasons, that is just fact! Just as the Z06 beats the Skyline in looks..... its just like that!<!-- Signature -->
I think it was 911Turbo who made a valid point, that the fact that the Z06 is good value for money in AMERICA. in Australia the best bang for your buck out of a new car that is sold in dealerships is probably an HSV or Ford T-Series. In America, the Z06 i'm sure rules supreme. In Germany, excluding export costs, crash tests and all other manner of exportation bullshit that jacks up the price, i'm sure that porsches are good value for money, and compared to a corvette wins hands down. TO import a corvette down here u need to first buy the car, ship it over, convert to right hand drive (which is a very complicated process including changes to suspension, engine bay and saftey features) and then get a road-worthiness certificate. By the time this s al done you have probably parted with 150 thousand Aus dollars, which is 50 thousand more than a similarly specced HSV. Einstien's theory of relativity deals with more than just physics! The relative prices of cars around the world are all differnt
<!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from SuPERkAJ</i> <b>Hehe what can I say... the Skyline would own the Z06 on a track. I dont even wanna give good reasons, that is just fact! Just as the Z06 beats the Skyline in looks..... its just like that!</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE --> Would you care to explain how the underpowered, overweight Skyline would beat a Z06 on a track? Or anywhere for that matter.
Some people must post just to post. 1. Saying that the zo6's engine is old and outdated. The z06 may us a pusthrod engine, but that's about the only thing about the engine thats old. If you people would do a little reserch, you would see that the vette's engine is a damm advanced engine. 2. People saying that american v-8's get bad gas mileage. When in reality they get a hell of a lot better gas mileage than most cars. The zo6 gets 28mpg on the highway. Thats better that the gt2's 20mpg, so much for a highly advanced engine! Even a little honda 4 cylinder would have a hard time getting this kind of gas mileage. They state that they get around 32-34, but when they are actually driven at highway speeds (60-75mph) the engine has to work so hard that the gas mileage drops, alot! 3. The z06 is a bad handling car because it's rear wheel drive. This gt2 is also rwd? Are you people saying that the gt2 is also a bad handling car? Most race cars are rwd, why? Overall its the best way to go. 4. A highly modded supra would kill the gt2 in a race. Are you people on drugs or something? Even if the supra was a little faster off the line, after the first turn you could kiss the supra's ass goodbye. Remember you really could'nt use nos around the track like you do on the dragstrip! And since that's how the "highly tuned" supras get most of their hp from, you'd have to be using nos instead of gas I guess on the race track! And if the race has more than 1 lap the gt2 would win regardless, why, because that "highly tuned" supra engine will blow apart after 1 lap. Their engines can't handle the 30lbs of boost needed to get their engines up to around 600-700hp! A short trip down the dragstrip once in awhile might not ruin their engines, but 20 laps around a racetrack would destroy the "highly tuned" supra engines! Some of you people need to stop watching the fast and the furious, stop posting until you hit 16 and can drive, and need to give respect where respect is do! You have to respect the fact that the gt2 is just an amazing racebreed street car! You need to respect that the z06 is an amazing car that can keep up (but not beat) the gt2 on a race course! And while I respect the fact that the supra is an fast car that can be modded beyond belief, you import lovers need to stop saying that it can beat anything out their, it CAN'T!!! Those modded supra's running 9's in the qauter mile probably cost as much as the gt2!
<!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Lingenfelter</i> <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from 911Gt2</i> <b>Fu*k the Vett its a shitt*y car. American cars are sh*t. German car best cars ever made!</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE --> Ummm you should get your head out of your ass lets go back umm to the 60's and 70's when Caddy was King or when the American's had there Big Blocks and Big power where was BMW,BENZ,FERRARI, and all them then they didn't dare come out to race the Big American Cars</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE --> good point
Yes, porsche's are great. They are one of the best brands in the world. However American sports cars are in a different class from a porsche. The GT2 is $170,000 , a Viper is $60,000. There is a HUGE difference in price. For about the same price, a Hennessy Viper could blow away the GT2 without even pushing it to it's extremes. So please stop bashing us Americans. It's pointless. If we were top have cars priced at this level they would easily compete with the likes of Porsche but American cars aren't(usually) built for racing, they're for normal, everyday driving by people who DON'T have $170 grand to spend on a car.
ANY AMERICAN CAR THAT COSTS AS MUCH AS THIS WOULD COMPLETELY KILL THIS THING BEFORE YOU START IT END OF DISSCUSION, AND WHY SO MUCH Z06 TALK WHAT ABOUT A VIPER, YOU COULD BY 4 VIPERS FOR THIS PRICE, THEY BEEN AROUND FOR TEN YEARS AND STILL OUT ACCEL THIS THING AND HANDLE ALMOST AS GOOD AT .98G, WHO WOULDN'T RATHER DRIVE DOWN THE STREET WITH 3 OF THERE FRIENDS ALL IN A ROW ALL IN VIPERS, OR YOU COULD DRIVE IN THIS WITH ONE OF THEM IN YOUR PASSENGER SEAT AND BEG THEM TO BORROW YOU SOME MONEY FOR GAS, SURE THIS IS A GREAT CAR SPLIT THE PRICE IN HALF AND ITS WORTH IT
You cannot really compare these cars. Both are hardcore street-racers packing massive performance, but the Porsche is over $140,000 more expensive and has much better performance numbers overall. The Z06 is a great car, but it is out of it's league here. And we Americans do not like Corvettes because they are American.....the Corvette is the best bang-for-buck car out there.<!-- Signature -->