Re: Why do u guys like american carz??

Discussion in '2002 Chevrolet Camaro SS 35th Anniversary' started by C5 R Vette, Aug 9, 2002.

  1. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from EmmArTooGuy</i>
    <b>Some guy in Dallas said he'd like to race me...
    I live in Waco so I'll make you a deal, call me at (254) 752-5102 and we'll set up a time to race. I'll meet you any place you want to race. I'll add the footage of me beating the cheap Z28 and the cheap Sonata to my archive. Be a good sport and smile while I beat you on camera.

    BTW: I've dropped a more advanced engine in and my current best 1/4 mile run on the new engine is 13.22@106.4!

    Hope you like getting beat by 100 ft!</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    How much did the newer engine cost you... along with all the extras that you need to make it fast. With the $3800 in your list that you had previously into your car i would be ashamed if i wasn't able to make a early-mid 80's Camaro or mustang break 13 flat (including the price of the car).

    $400 for a Buick with a 455 and an auto tranny that runs
    $1000 for a mid 80's Camaro in VERY nice shape but with no motor
    $400 on very sticky tires
    $ 700 on a custom drive shaft
    $500 for a 150 HP shot of nitrous
    $100 for a good shift kit
    Fabricate some engine and tranny mounts, have the carbs rebuilt, and you have a car that will humiliate you for a lot less.


    I bet with that new engine you are well over $5000 total on the car, in that case give me a 93 Camaro with a Nitrous kit and it will also match your car, and it will be plenty reliable if you only use the nitrous for racing.... should be able to hit 200,000 miles easy, i have 135,000 on my 95 and runs BEAUTIFULLY, and my wife's 1984 has 185,000 miles on it and yeah it needs a carb rebuild, but i think i can live with a $100 repair bill.


    <!-- Signature -->
     
  2. You are forgetting that for $3800 you must also match my handling, braking, fuel economy, aesthetics inside and out, and it must be something you don't see everyday. People always stop and say "Oh, look at that little yellow car." or they stop me and ask "So what kind of car is that anyway?" or "Damn, who made that?". My car is not only clean on the outside but on the inside too. Its not only fast in the straight but I can slalom at over 70 mph too. Its a sports car that is comfortable to drive and ride in. Best of all, I did all the work on it myself. But anyway, do all that for $3800 dollars (now $4150 because I imported a Japanese Domestic Market engine) and then talk about it. I've already done it. YOU do it then talk.

    I'm not bais toward any car but for the most part The Big Three don't impress me. Sure the Viper is fast but Mario Andretti described it as having huge grip but "sloppy" feel. He went on to call it crude. After reading his review of it I was no longer impressed with it. The Z06 is better, it seems to be more refined but it bottoms out too easily. When taking one for a test drive with my mom it bottomed out every time we left or entered a parking lot or crossed a speed bump. Who wants to spend $50K on a car that you can't drive anywhere in town without bottoming out. The only car from Ford I can think of that I like is the GT40 but once you find one, who has over one million dollars to spend on it. And the Viper and Corvette both have fiberglass bodies which eventually develop tiny stress cracks from vibration and a minor fender-bender in a parking lot turns into a nightmare when the whole panel cracks and falls off. One of my friends back in high school was telling me about how awsome his dad's new Trans-Am was and how it was better than the Miata he use to have. The next time I was at his house I was talking to his dad about it and he (the owner of a 1998 Trans-Am) said he wished he had kept the old Miata instead. It wasn't as fast in the staights but it handled better, rode smoother, drank less fuel, the interior held up better, and the list went on and on. If the top of the line cars have probelms and the mid range cars have problems I'm sure the cheap ones do to. And as far as the Z06 out running all the imports, thats pretty funny. Compare a new Z06 and a new 911 GT2. Sure the GT2 is more expensive but you get what you pay for right? How often do people stop and ask about a Camaro, Firbird, or Corvette? They are common and unspectacular. They can hardly be considered a supercar. Supercars MUST do everything well or its no supercar at all. There are some small domestic manufacturers who's names escape me that make nice cars but other than those the rest are bland and unpassionate.
     
  3. Rthompson,

    I have a dynamic acceleration program on my computer that allows me to build cars and race them in the 1/4 mile and in various other accelertion tests. It has a large data base of cars so you can swap parts and even design your own. Its not a game but an engineering program. The 1/4 mile times are only acurate to 0.1 seconds but hey, nobody is perfect right? What am I getting at? I built the Camaro you mentioned earlier and tested it out. I couldn't find a dyno chart for a Buick 455 so I used the Oldsmobile 442 W-30's engine. I stole a transmission from a Super Stock Grand National stuck them into a 1989 IROC-Z. I think the parts I used are better and more expensive than the ones you had in mind but what can I say, I'm a nice guy. Anyway, I used your pricing and after the car was built you had $1050 left over. So you have a 3700 pound car with 370 bhp and 500 lb-ft (no nitrous) and on the bottle it has 520 bhp and 966 lb-ft. Assuming that you can keep traction and the axel holds up, you should run about 13.2 natural and 12.2 on the bottle. So not that you took me in a straight line, take your $1050 and make the car look great inside and out, tune your suspension so it rides nice with the horrific front weight bias it has, and despite the difficulties I'm sure you could make it handle good too. Yep, I guess you won. Darn!

    Yeah, right. I'll say it again; do it, then talk. And after you talk I'll out run you.
     
  4. And while I'm in the mood...

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from C5 R Vette</i>
    <b>Mr2 guy your are an idiot i wasn't talking about form 1. i was talking about the car. and beside the new c6 is going to compet agains the new buggati((duh know how to spleel it)) in the gtp class. do u see an import in there. I don't think so</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    I was just naming Toyotas that are faster than the C5R, thats all.
    Oh, and, isn't Bugatti (spell it right idiot) an import?
    I mean, I guess its not an import if the Bugatti you're talking about is in France but if it is in another country, how did it get there if it wasn't imported? I guess its magic. Or maybe you're the idiot. Just a thought...Who knows.
     
  5. no your full of shit no rice burner looks good or has a hlf descent engine and they all sound like #$%#ing pencil sharpners whats so good about that
     
  6. You think the Saleen is domestic? Why do they race under a Brittish flag? Vector and Shelby were the two American manufacturers that I couldn't remember. Ford can build good stuff when they try. I hear that there is a chance of a new GT40 that will be in the $100K range and should take on the likes of the new Lamborghini Murcielago and 911 GT2. I'd like to have a Saleen S7. I'm sure the interior is nicer than that of the 911 GT2 but its still not faster, and it costs more. Porche isn't really a car manufacturer I like because of durability issues. If I were going to buy a car in the $250K dollar range, I'd import a TVR Cerbera Speed 12 (I'd never waste that much on a car). It weighs like 2200 lbs and has over 800 bhp (what a 7+ liter engine should have). Less than 80 bhp/liter indicates one of 3 things: its old, its poorly designed, or its under rated. But we can name off limited production cars all day.

    The reason I like Toyota the best isn't because they build the fastest cars, though they have good race history. The reason is this: When Toyota was in Waco working with RAM on a quad-cam turbo V8 powered airplane, they respected everyone's opinion. One day my Dad, who works at RAM, was telling me about a Toyota engineer asking one of the cleaning staff their opinion on some things going into the airplane. It wasn't that the engineer thought that the janitor would know, or that the engineer didn't. It was simply an issue of respect. The smartest people sometimes overlook the most obvious things that a passing layman (in this case a janitor) may notice. Now, I'm sure some smart ass out there is reading this wanting to make a remark about Toyota's being build by janitors but thats ok. I forgive you before you ever say it. Another thing I liked about the Toyota engineers was that, while our guys were dreading another day at work, Toyotas engineers were praying that they could do the best job possible for themselves and their families. They worked harder and longer and often more effectively. The reason I buy Toyotas is because I know that they were built buy a person who had their mind and heart in their work, not by some lazy slob waiting for the next brake to roll around. You all know what I'm talking about. I'm sure you've done it yourselves, I have. Let a mistake slide because you knew somebody else would catch it. But when your religion touches your job you work harder, as with Japanese workers. They build a better car because they try harder.
     
  7. BTW: my program isn't available on the web at any price. Its a pirate (copied) program. The registerd version costs around $400. The results are consistent with test times found in most car magazines. I have enough experience to know when cheap software gives poor results.
     
  8. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from EmmArTooGuy</i>
    <b>You think the Saleen is domestic? Why do they race under a Brittish flag? Vector and Shelby were the two American manufacturers that I couldn't remember. Ford can build good stuff when they try. I hear that there is a chance of a new GT40 that will be in the $100K range and should take on the likes of the new Lamborghini Murcielago and 911 GT2. I'd like to have a Saleen S7. I'm sure the interior is nicer than that of the 911 GT2 but its still not faster, and it costs more. Porche isn't really a car manufacturer I like because of durability issues. If I were going to buy a car in the $250K dollar range, I'd import a TVR Cerbera Speed 12 (I'd never waste that much on a car). It weighs like 2200 lbs and has over 800 bhp (what a 7+ liter engine should have). Less than 80 bhp/liter indicates one of 3 things: its old, its poorly designed, or its under rated. But we can name off limited production cars all day. </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Please visit the regular forums once in a while, you might learn a thing or two about cars. Saleen is American and is more than a match for the GT2 and it should for having 100 more HP and weighing in at 400 LBS less.
    HP/L means NOTHING in the real world. The only thing that matters in performance are HP and vehicle weight, HP/l tells very little about the actual engine, if someone comes up to you and says "my car has over 100 HP/L" and doesn't show you what car. Are you going to assume that it can beat a car with 56 HP/L? are you going to assume that it is going to get better gas milage? are you going to assume that it is more reliable? well the two cars that i am comparing are the Viper and the 360 Modena, the Viper is a LOT faster in the straights, faster in the corners, gets better gas milage and is more reliable.

    If you find out where HP/L means ANYTHING please let me know, please post something like this in the tech forum the guys will get a good laugh out of it. If i am in a country where displacement is taxed or i am in a displacement limited racing class then HP and engine size are both important, but on the streets it means NOTHING.


    I think i am going to stop postingin the individual forums because i see nothing but ignorance in all of the threads...... some people need to do a lillte research before i will waste my time with them.<!-- Signature -->
     
  9. HP/L just shows the time the manufacturer is willing to invest in the car. If it has a crude engine the rest of the car will match. The Vipier Handles good because it has huge sticky tires, its fast in a straight line because it has a huge engine. The whole car is crude. Why pay $60K for that when you could build something like it in your garage? My dad had an MGA with a 410 bhp 289 and it ran 11 something in the 1/4 mile and handled good too but it was just a 1900 lb car with a big engine and fat tires, like the Viper, nothin special. The Ferarri does everything well though because Ferarri spent a lot of time on it.

    In the June 1999 issue of Road & Track Mario Andretti compared the Viper, Corvette, NSX, Esprit,F355 Spider, and Carrera 4 at the East Loop of Buttonwillow Raceway.When all was said and done Mario rated the cars as follows:

    1st Carrera 4
    2nd NSX
    3rd F355 Spider
    4th Corvette
    5th Esprit
    6th Viper

    Yep, the Viper wins again. If racing legends don't like driving it on a track I won't either. I drive a refinded sports car everyday and I've driven Z28s and Vettes. Its sad when a 1985 MR2 with worn out struts out handles both of them. I've never tried a Viper and from the reviews it gets from pro drivers I don't want to.

    When I was talking about BHP/Liter I was refering to the TVR Speed 12 whcih has a 7.7 liter engine pumping out 800 bhp and it is way faster than the S7.

    Well its time to go enjoy my car again while y'all drool over cruchy turds. Have fun.
     
  10. #85 rthompson, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from American HP</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from EmmArTooGuy</i>
    <b>Rthompson issued this challenge:

    "Can you find ANY other cars that can get 28 MPG and on the same day put up a 3.9 second 0-60, 12.5 second 1/4 mile, brake from 60 MPH in 103-104 ft, put up near 1g on the skidpad and still maintain LEV standards, any price, not just under the $50,000 that the Z06 is, I bet you can't find more than 2 under $200,000 and NONE under $100,000."

    Well heres my best shot. You can buy a Caterham R500 for about $70K USD. It looks just like the Caterham Super 7. It weighs just over 1100 pounds. It has 230 bhp giving the highest power:weight ratio of any current production car. 0-60 in 3.X seconds. I had to ask around to get the following info. Several owners said the stock 1/4 mile is high 11s or low 12s. They all said they get about 40 mpg. How much did you bet that I can't find one for under $100,000?

    http://www.caterham.co.uk/showroom/new/seven/superlight/r500tech.htm

    Its not only faster than the Z06 but it will get noticed a lot more too. And if your one of those guys that relies on his car to get attention from girls, you'll get more with this.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    I guess you can call that a car, but it looks like a go-cart to me. </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    I doubt that it would pass crash tests and emissions anyways, and if you could actually get one into the US i doubt that you could get it for that price...<!-- Signature -->
     
  11. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from EmmArTooGuy</i>
    <b> I'm an engineering major, </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Cool, i am too. I am going into EE and i am going to join IEEE and SAE this next semester. What kind of engineering are you going for and how far along are you? I have about 2.5 years left.<!-- Signature -->
     
  12. "I doubt that it would pass crash tests and emissions anyways, and if you could actually get one into the US i doubt that you could get it for that price..."

    You can get this car in the USA. There ARE distributors of Caterham vehicles in North America. The car is just as legal to own and drive on the streets as a Z06 and it has enough ground clearance to drive around without bottoming out on EVERYTHING. $70K is the USA price for the R500 that runs 11.9 sec 1/4 miles (the base model is $26,595). UK price is about 33K pounds. Its such a simple car that you can even buy it as a kit for $40K, though it is a production car...Not a kitcar. If you go watch some SCCA Club Racing you'll see a LOT of these little cars. They dominate club racing. I've seen them trash cars that are TRACK ONLY and cost about 5 times as much. I saw one beat a TRACK ONLY NSX with a 680 bhp turbo engine and also a TRACK ONLY 1993 ZR-1 with about $60K worth of mods/labor in it. The Super 7 that beat them was track only too...About 400 bhp, to get the same HP/LB your Z06 would need 1200 bhp. And if you did that it would only be able to make a few laps before they had to swap in a different engine. That was at the Texas World Speedway road course (lot of sweeping turns). This car's main advantage on the track is the fact that it HANDLES so well. So how bad would it beat those cars on a tighter track?<!-- Signature -->
     
  13. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from rthompson</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from EmmArTooGuy</i>
    <b> I'm an engineering major, </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Cool, i am too. I am going into EE and i am going to join IEEE and SAE this next semester. What kind of engineering are you going for and how far along are you? I have about 2.5 years left.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    I was wanting to go into the mechanical field but its not certain. I talked to one of the engineers at RAM awhile back. His name is Glen Mayben (spelling? correct me if you read this Glen) and he worked for NASA and also on the Voyager (the plane that flew non-stop around the world). He is one of the best in the country when it comes to composites. He said the division of engineering you study doesn't matter as much as your work experience because each new job presents new challenges that the text book probably didn't cover. My goal is to be able to do accurate stress analysis with composites so I can design and build MY OWN supercar. The goal is to be all composite monocoque with composite suspension links and everything. I'm wanting a curb weight of about 800 lbs and 350-400 bhp. The only things I'm sure of at the moment are that it will have a transverse mounted mid-engine design and it will look like a production vehicle so I can liscence it and drive it on the street. I'm not far from being able to do this, the only experience I lack is the stress analysis (and the money). I'll probably go into the aerospace field because that is what I've been around the most, though cars are my true passion. I'm 3 years away from my degree.<!-- Signature -->
     
  14. Alright fine I will admit it that no american car will loose to ##### but still you must give credit to where it belongs, we have the best hp/l in the world. Our cars look nice and perform well too. NOS is the best thing that could happen to a car. So your V8's can kick our ass big deal. We have the NSX that can compete with your camaro well what do you have to say about that? V8's are that great then huh? All I have to say is this american V8's are great but 4 cylinder engines are cool do. I love the sound of buzzing, it means the car has more hp too. So I don't know what you guys are talking about we are still pretty fast.

    I can take a supra and spend $50,000 on it and it will have 1000hp. This will beat your god oh mighty stock Z06 anything. Viper may be another issue so I don't want to talk about that.

    Large wings make a car look very mean and it looks like it will win every race don't you agree?
     
  15. Why do u guys like american carz??

    1. We grew up with american cars.
    2. They are cheaper than europeans
    3. Better than europeans
    4. Good to tune up
    4. Big V8s
     
  16. i like american cars because of a couple of reasons:
    im not a f*ucking idiot, im a respectable american...so i drive american cars, i like cars that they have good style..and are fun to drive..i.e. mustangs...corvettes...camaros...not civics..and ugly pieces of jap shit like that, and any respectable person will agree with me...and if you don't, you need to take a couple of steps outside and f*ck yourselves
     
  17. I'd like to direct everyone's attention to "my" post at the top of this page. Then notice that it was edited (somehow) by legendsNH. That just goes to show the kind of scum he is. He is just mad because he can't shoot down my side of the arguement. Infact he can't contest me in anyway. You all should see the stupid crap he comes up with in the tech forums. I answer all of his questions (helping him out) and then he TRIES to bash me for the car I drive. Then when he fails at that he changes my posts. Oh well, what can you expect from scum?
     
  18. Good American cars are the S7 (though its mostly British) and Series One. GT40 and Cobra. Vector makes good cars. The mass produced sports cars just don't impress me. Also I think that overhead valve engines were the next big step after inventing the wheel.<!-- Signature -->
     
  19. the S7 is made by ford last time I checked that was an american car company<!-- Signature -->
     
  20. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from EmmArTooGuy</i>
    <b>Good American cars are the S7 (though its mostly British) and Series One. GT40 and Cobra. Vector makes good cars. The mass produced sports cars just don't impress me. Also I think that overhead valve engines were the next big step after inventing the wheel.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Pushrod engines are newer technology than OHC.

    The Fact that the Corvette Zo6 can beat The Ferrari 360 Modena on the N Ring and in a straight line while able to get twice the gas milage doesn't impress you? Getting 405 HP out of an engine and being able to maintain the efficiency of most 240-300 HP cars doesn't impress you? Can you find ANY other cars that can get 28 MPG and on the same day put up a 3.9 second 0-60, 12.5 second 1/4 mile, brake from 60 MPH in 103-104 ft, put up near 1g on the skidpad and still maintain LEV standards, any price, not just under the $50,000 that the Z06 is, I bet you can't find more than 2 under $200,000 and NONE under $100,000. To me that is an impressive car.<!-- Signature -->
     
  21. Well you see, I believe Road & Track that the 0-60 is 4.3 seconds and 12.7 in the 1/4 mile. I believe them because they are the biggest car magazine and they test a wide range of performance cars in unbias situations. The Vette doesn't impress me because of quality issues. A guy down the street from me has a '97 and it falls apart all the time. Maybe GM improved the overall quality of the Vette with the Z06 model but I can't tell the difference. Also the Z06 bottoms out ALL the time, coming out of the parking lot, over speed bumps, through intersections. I'm not talking about a little scrape, I'm saying it hits the tarmac HARD. It handles great but after about 30 minutes the ride gets uncomfortable and you'll wish you were in a smoother car. I'd hate to drive one on a long road trip (talk about soreness!). Further, I don't like fiberglass bodies because if someone tags you in a parking lot your whole fender is busted up instead of having a small dent. Most people couldn't tell a Z06 from the regular C5 and part of owning a supercar is getting a bunch of looks and questions. Its mundane. I have an old 1985 MR2 in great condition and it gets more attention from strangers than anything I've ever owned (more than anything my parents family and friends own too) so it isn't always about speed. And yeah the Z06 is fast but if you work your butt off for a $50K car you won't want to go wear it out racing between stop lights. Trust me on that one. As far as good gas milage: thats just about the fuel mixture while the car's ECU is in closed loop mode. Peak power is controlled by open loop mode. Cars that get really good gas milage relative to their peak power often have durability and wear problems because they are so lean in closed loop mode. I'm an engineering major, I've built high output engines and I know math formulas that can make your head explode. Even though this is over your head its true so don't argue.

    BTW: The S7 has a Ford engine but its made by Saleen that does have roots in England.<!-- Signature -->
     
  22. #97 EmmArTooGuy, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Rthompson issued this challenge:

    "Can you find ANY other cars that can get 28 MPG and on the same day put up a 3.9 second 0-60, 12.5 second 1/4 mile, brake from 60 MPH in 103-104 ft, put up near 1g on the skidpad and still maintain LEV standards, any price, not just under the $50,000 that the Z06 is, I bet you can't find more than 2 under $200,000 and NONE under $100,000."

    Well heres my best shot. You can buy a Caterham R500 for about $70K USD. It looks just like the Caterham Super 7. It weighs just over 1100 pounds. It has 230 bhp giving the highest power:weight ratio of any current production car. 0-60 in 3.X seconds. I had to ask around to get the following info. Several owners said the stock 1/4 mile is high 11s or low 12s. They all said they get about 40 mpg. How much did you bet that I can't find one for under $100,000?

    http://www.caterham.co.uk/showroom/new/seven/superlight/r500tech.htm

    Its not only faster than the Z06 but it will get noticed a lot more too. And if your one of those guys that relies on his car to get attention from girls, you'll get more with this.<!-- Signature -->
     
  23. #98 rthompson, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from EmmArTooGuy</i>
    <b>Rthompson issued this challenge:

    "Can you find ANY other cars that can get 28 MPG and on the same day put up a 3.9 second 0-60, 12.5 second 1/4 mile, brake from 60 MPH in 103-104 ft, put up near 1g on the skidpad and still maintain LEV standards, any price, not just under the $50,000 that the Z06 is, I bet you can't find more than 2 under $200,000 and NONE under $100,000."

    Well heres my best shot. You can buy a Caterham R500 for about $70K USD. It looks just like the Caterham Super 7. It weighs just over 1100 pounds. It has 230 bhp giving the highest power:weight ratio of any current production car. 0-60 in 3.X seconds. I had to ask around to get the following info. Several owners said the stock 1/4 mile is high 11s or low 12s. They all said they get about 40 mpg. How much did you bet that I can't find one for under $100,000?

    http://www.caterham.co.uk/showroom/new/seven/superlight/r500tech.htm

    Its not only faster than the Z06 but it will get noticed a lot more too. And if your one of those guys that relies on his car to get attention from girls, you'll get more with this.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    That is 1, i guess it is under $100,000 gonna be hard to find more tho... keep looking., i guess if the quality issues of the Vette are too much for you then this is TOTALLY out of the question... the quality on the Caterhams are supposed to be VERY bad.<!-- Signature -->
     
  24. "That is 1, i guess it is under $100,000 gonna be hard to find more tho... keep looking., i guess if the quality issues of the Vette are too much for you then this is TOTALLY out of the question... the quality on the Caterhams are supposed to be VERY bad. "

    Well you said I wouldn't find EVEN ONE so one is good enough. So I think I'll stop looking. I don't know who told you that Caterhams are of low quality but if you ask around you'll find those who disagree. When I contacted Caterham I got a list of customers and contacted them. That is how I got the MPG and 1/4 mile times. Nobody I contacted had any complaints about the quality either. And on a car this simple, if there is a problem you can fix it yourself quite easily. There aren't many things that can go wrong on them. I'm not bias for or against American cars but I don't like anybody exaggerating about a car to make it look good. This Camaro is a nice car but it won't run low 13s like a lot of people seem to think. Get a Road&Track magazine or go tke one to a drag strip. There isn't any reason to put other cars down either. If someone likes a car they'll see its strengths without having someone exaggerate about them.<!-- Signature -->
     
  25. wow 230hp find me a car that has 400hp and still gets 28mpg, I don't see why you have to come into the american forum and try and make your pocket rocket look better why don't you go into the oriental area of these forums and talk about it there? Ahh your probably insecure about yourself and your car that you have to come into an american forum and try and make your pocket rocket look better. In the end of the day the V8 wins every race 4 bangers are for boys. V8's are for men.<!-- Signature -->
     

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